Swamp in pvp

Melzo · June 2022

I played dragon knight and met another dk. We fought for five minutes and I decided to leave. No one could kill anyone. I came to the castle and there the dk and the sorcerer lick the walls and 20 people run after them. 5 minutes later they were gone. Everyone is just tired. Is this pvp?? Seriously?? And these are simple examples. Two templars just do an immortal combo .... One is hard to kill and 2 is a wombo combo. And yet they kill players in seconds...

Many mechanics simply became irrelevant. The basic spamming ability of a two-handed weapon is no match for the basic class spamming abilities. The DK shield that protects against projectiles is just a pointless ability. This meta is like a rotten swamp. Everyone runs with the same builds. No originality although there seemed to be variety. The new patch brought only the weakening of the DK and the strengthening of the sorcerer.I would rather see an Orthodox warden with a zaan and a wateshran stick than the current sorcerers and dk ...

Hello to all archers sorcerers ....

acastanza_ESO · June 2022

Hybridization was the biggest mistake this game has ever made.

What they've done is fundamentally incompatible with the core game design! They've created a "have your cake and eat it too" meta with regards to players just taking the strongest abilities without any consequences. Having access to the strongest Stam abilities should limit the strongest Magicka abilities in some way and vice versa. The core game design balanced this by having the abilities scale off different stats so you could Min/Max but couldn't Max/Max. There is a reason why Max/Max-ing isn't a thing in games, ZOS has created that.

It's also made balance all but impossible because if say, Stamina Sorcerer is overperforming and Magicka Sorcerer is underperforming (both painfully true) anything they buff to bring Magicka Sorcerer up to par is just going to be snatched by StamSorc to make it even more overpowered, and anything they nerf to reign in StamSorc is going to hurt MagSorc just as much.

It's past time for ZOS to admit their mistake and start rolling this back. The current meta SUCKS. Give us back distinct identities for Magicka and Stamina!

propertyOfUndefined · June 2022

Healing is out of control, and pvp just isn’t as fun for me as a result. On the upside, I’m having fun with Tales of Tribute matches while waiting for combat adjustments to be made

Thecompton73 · June 2022

This is absolutely the most boring meta ever since I've been playing PvP, which is back when Imperial City came out. Crosshealing is completely out of control to the point that any group of three or more people who run 35K health can always bring each other back from the brink of death unless they're outnumbered 5v1, and the bigger the group the more outnumbered they need to be. A min/maxed coordinated group of 12 can heal through an entire faction stack chasing them around a keep indefinitely while being bombarded with every type of siege weapon there is.
And even disregarding all the good class heals having Rally from 2H plus Vigor plus Regen from the resto staff gives every class access to such strong self heals it's almost impossible to kill most players 1v1, They just stack health, wear something to get some decent resistances, and count on SD/WD proc sets like Balorgh's or Clever Alchemist to give burst windows to take down the few squishy players still left while ignoring all the other meta build players they already know they can't kill.
Any equal number of players on meta builds fighting each other is basically pointless, I watched a 4v5 where they all brawled within a 5 meter radius for a half hour and not a single person died.

TechMaybeHic · June 2022

Pillow fight between heals topping off health, massive AOE pulls to constantly try to avoid, and 1 shot heavy attack builds. Fun.

Dirt_Rooster · June 2022

These are the reasons I will always stick to no-cp. Unfortunately I can't build my character how I want to there, but it's better than dealing with noobs crutching on CP

duckdown · June 2022

"Hybridization was the biggest mistake this game has ever made"

Agree as [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

blktauna · June 2022

Dirt_Rooster wrote: »

These are the reasons I will always stick to no-cp. Unfortunately I can't build my character how I want to there, but it's better than dealing with noobs crutching on CP

Its not the noobs doing the crutching.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2022

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Hybridization was the biggest mistake this game has ever made.

What they've done is fundamentally incompatible with the core game design! They've created a "have your cake and eat it too" meta with regards to players just taking the strongest abilities without any consequences. Having access to the strongest Stam abilities should limit the strongest Magicka abilities in some way and vice versa. The core game design balanced this by having the abilities scale off different stats so you could Min/Max but couldn't Max/Max. There is a reason why Max/Max-ing isn't a thing in games, ZOS has created that.

It's also made balance all but impossible because if say, Stamina Sorcerer is overperforming and Magicka Sorcerer is underperforming (both painfully true) anything they buff to bring Magicka Sorcerer up to par is just going to be snatched by StamSorc to make it even more overpowered, and anything they nerf to reign in StamSorc is going to hurt MagSorc just as much.

It's past time for ZOS to admit their mistake and start rolling this back. The current meta SUCKS. Give us back distinct identities for Magicka and Stamina!

This was well written. Thank you. Good to see players get it.

Grianasteri · June 2022

I do not think the issues raised by the OP, are actually new.

This has been PVP for a very long time. Practically unkillable builds and combinations, who can burst kill others with relative ease, often faster than a gank.

The meta and details change each patch, but the same issues persist in general.

ps, I have not noticed any increased prevalence of bow sorcs, in Cyro at least.

fred4 · June 2022

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Hybridization was the biggest mistake this game has ever made.

What they've done is fundamentally incompatible with the core game design! They've created a "have your cake and eat it too" meta with regards to players just taking the strongest abilities without any consequences. Having access to the strongest Stam abilities should limit the strongest Magicka abilities in some way and vice versa. The core game design balanced this by having the abilities scale off different stats so you could Min/Max but couldn't Max/Max. There is a reason why Max/Max-ing isn't a thing in games, ZOS has created that.

It's also made balance all but impossible because if say, Stamina Sorcerer is overperforming and Magicka Sorcerer is underperforming (both painfully true) anything they buff to bring Magicka Sorcerer up to par is just going to be snatched by StamSorc to make it even more overpowered, and anything they nerf to reign in StamSorc is going to hurt MagSorc just as much.

It's past time for ZOS to admit their mistake and start rolling this back. The current meta SUCKS. Give us back distinct identities for Magicka and Stamina!

This sounds plausible and I kind of want to belive it, but does it really hold up? One class variant being beaten into pulp by legitimate nerfs to the other, or to an entirely different class, isn't new. I feel magblade has historically suffered from nerfs directed at stamblades and (shield nerfs / changes) directed at magsorcs. We always had shared weapon and armor skill lines, e.g. particularly resto staff / Healing Ward and the light armor shield.

Even an Oakensoul DK needs to be min/maxed. You want Bloodspawn. You want Decisive. You probably want another ulti-gen set.

Everyone went out and got Oakensoul first. I did. I get it. I'm playing a hybrid NB. Sustain-wise I'm still a magblade using Concealed, but I'm also using Whirlwind and the equivalent stamblade is darn similar. Both stam and mag DK use Molten Whip these days too.

With that said, there are other playstyles. I'm trying the Lefthander's Belt, which everyone says is crap, but well, Jorvuld's <cough>, Arcane Alacrity CP <cough>. Not saying it's meta good, but it's certainly interesting and I feel I'm not on top of it yet. My habits of dodging versus blocking need to change with that set. It plays differently. Point is some things - Oakensoul - will likely be nerfed and some others - Dov Rha / Sea Serpents - are actually hard to farm and currently overshadowed, because people are busy with Oakensoul.

I get your point about the hybrid meta. I get that good players can't kill each other. That's not exactly new, though. That happens every patch. If a patch starts out super high damage, give it 3 weeks and everyone's wearing Pariah or something along those lines. That has happened and I don't blame ZOS for this, or only partially. Players want this. They want to be the one to survive and 1vX, because that's probably the sexiest thing you can do to show off on Twitch / YouTube. You tend to get locked into certain playstyles by your habits and muscle memory too. If you know how to 1vX on a tanky character, that's what you know and gravitate towards. You're probably wise to be tanky, because of the lag. I mostly play squishy characters. The slightest hint of lag, I'm out of there. Squishy characters are only viable in low lag, at least when you try to play a versatile, rounded character.

fred4 · June 2022

Grianasteri wrote: »

ps, I have not noticed any increased prevalence of bow sorcs, in Cyro at least.

Cause I'd say Oakensoul ulti-gen DK is the better spec. Stamsorc has healing issues. Always had, been OK - even OP - in the past with health regen, but that is not viable anymore, nor are you critting people all the time to heal from Crit Surge on a ranged build. A friend has been trying Oakensoul, bow, Savage WW stamsorc. He can make anything work, but I think he is having to be super careful and streak a lot.