Tales of Tribute has some major flaws that keep it from being fun

lordspyder · June 2022

So, like the title says, the card games has some major flaws that keep it from being fun. The first issue it the that there seems to be no timer for making moves. it's infuriating sitting waiting for a player to play their cards when we're on the second move and there is no way he has anything but coins. there is no real decisions to make here. dump your coins, buy what you can and flip a coin into a scroll, this should not take 5 minutes to do. there needs to be a turn timer.

The second issue is that there is a 10 minute timer if you concede a game. I just had a game go poorly, the cards just didn't go my way and he was at 38 and I was only at 15, I wasn't going to get to 40, the cards just weren't there . Why waste your time? I'm a gracious loser, I'll bow out and we can both move one with our day . But nooooo, now I'm stuck with a 10 minute time before I can requeue.

tsaescishoeshiner · June 2022

There is a turn timer—the hourglass flips over and starts ticking when your turn gets close to its end. I find it to be the right length for me, as a slow thinker myself who also wants games that are as fast as possible.

As far as conceding, they seem to not realize how common that is in card games. I personally never do it, but I'd hope a rework includes no queue penalty, and still getting end-of-game loss rewards and rank points.

Psiion · June 2022

Greetings,

Seeing as this thread is in regards to the Tales of Tribute, we have gone ahead and moved it to the appropriate section.

Rouz · June 2022

Yeah I agree on the concede thing. The game is 90% RNG. This is coming from someone who got to the top 30 players on the leaderboards. I'd say over half my loses and wins were because of luck. Just someone got lucky on a tavern draw. Nothing else to it. The major issue is that crow and pelin are not balanced well at all. Especially pelin. There have been many games where I simply won or lost because of 1 or 2 pelin cards. Or in the case of crow 2-3. They're listed as "late game" decks, but its complete BS. Those decks are insanely strong fairly quickly. If I'm 15 minutes into a game, i've got another 15 minutes to go, and I know I'm going to lose; just let me leave. After playing on leaderboard for awhile its honestly one of the major reasons I'm thinking about checking out and sticking to PvE matches. The leaderboard is heavily deflated right now because the population is so low. And with the game so heavily on RNG + poor balance, I'm finding these matches being boring more often than not. And since at such a high rank matches often go on for 30-35 minutes; it's so tiring so fast.

kmfdm · June 2022

Rouz wrote: »

Yeah I agree on the concede thing. The game is 90% RNG. This is coming from someone who got to the top 30 players on the leaderboards. I'd say over half my loses and wins were because of luck. Just someone got lucky on a tavern draw. Nothing else to it. The major issue is that crow and pelin are not balanced well at all. Especially pelin. There have been many games where I simply won or lost because of 1 or 2 pelin cards. Or in the case of crow 2-3. They're listed as "late game" decks, but its complete BS. Those decks are insanely strong fairly quickly. If I'm 15 minutes into a game, i've got another 15 minutes to go, and I know I'm going to lose; just let me leave. After playing on leaderboard for awhile its honestly one of the major reasons I'm thinking about checking out and sticking to PvE matches. The leaderboard is heavily deflated right now because the population is so low. And with the game so heavily on RNG + poor balance, I'm finding these matches being boring more often than not. And since at such a high rank matches often go on for 30-35 minutes; it's so tiring so fast.

You keep repeating that it is RND, but this is so much not true. You just dont see the strategies yet. You will change your opinion in a few weeks, Im sure of that. Look at Star Realms, Pelin is nothing compared to the cost/power ratio in Star Realms. In SR, there are 1 gold cards that give 3 power and 3-4 gold cards that give 6-7 power. ToT is even slower than that. Pelin is surely not overpowered. And Im saying that as #1 with about 90% win rate. I dont remember when was the last time I lost against all those Duke-focused build-ups. It is so easy to counter. Nothing RND about that.

Rouz · June 2022

Then you must have figured out a strat that most of the leaderboard hasn't. I've rarely seen an early game wombo combo card control of crow or a early game rally/armory control be properly countered except by each other. Ansei is sorta like a half support half attack hybrid. So even when using that, having a few good crow/pelin cards in there really help. Seems like a majority of my wins or loses I trace back to 1-3 draws they had that then snowballed.

TiberX · June 2022

Conceding is conceding, it means you admit defeat and therefor u shouldn't be penalized, after all the other player wins and ha nothing to complain.
The timer seems fine as it is because if u have big combos u barely finish in time.

Aye, u are right, no time penalty, u should loose all points too

TheForFeeF wrote: »

There should be a penalty for conceding, but it shouldn't be a time focused penalty. All that should happen is you don't get any rewards/xp. Otherwise, you could just abuse this to rank up fast.

kmfdm · June 2022

Rouz wrote: »

Then you must have figured out a strat that most of the leaderboard hasn't. I've rarely seen an early game wombo combo card control of crow or a early game rally/armory control be properly countered except by each other. Ansei is sorta like a half support half attack hybrid. So even when using that, having a few good crow/pelin cards in there really help. Seems like a majority of my wins or loses I trace back to 1-3 draws they had that then snowballed.

Having a few Pelin or Crow cards help situationally - yeh thats the point of the game - but that can be said about every Patron. If Duke card is best currently available, then I pick that, but I dont insist on taking Crow or Pelin cards only no matter what, which is what majority of players are doing. Rally and Armory can be countered, for instance with lots of Ansei that are returning your +power cards back on top or by thinning your deck with Eagle cards, by which you rotate your best cards much faster than your opponent. Or you can slog your opponent with Rahjin and basically thwart the entire Duke combo.

Lysette · June 2022

kmfdm wrote: »

Rouz wrote: »

Then you must have figured out a strat that most of the leaderboard hasn't. I've rarely seen an early game wombo combo card control of crow or a early game rally/armory control be properly countered except by each other. Ansei is sorta like a half support half attack hybrid. So even when using that, having a few good crow/pelin cards in there really help. Seems like a majority of my wins or loses I trace back to 1-3 draws they had that then snowballed.

Having a few Pelin or Crow cards help situationally - yeh thats the point of the game - but that can be said about every Patron. If Duke card is best currently available, then I pick that, but I dont insist on taking Crow or Pelin cards only no matter what, which is what majority of players are doing. Rally and Armory can be countered, for instance with lots of Ansei that are returning your +power cards back on top or by thinning your deck with Eagle cards, by which you rotate your best cards much faster than your opponent. Or you can slog your opponent with Rahjin and basically thwart the entire Duke combo.

Not to forget the "resurrection" of an agent in the cool down pile, pushed on top of the draw stack, to be drawn next. There is so much stuff in other card decks, which is very powerful as well, it doesn't have to be pelin to win.

Rouz · June 2022

kmfdm wrote: »

Rouz wrote: »

Then you must have figured out a strat that most of the leaderboard hasn't. I've rarely seen an early game wombo combo card control of crow or a early game rally/armory control be properly countered except by each other. Ansei is sorta like a half support half attack hybrid. So even when using that, having a few good crow/pelin cards in there really help. Seems like a majority of my wins or loses I trace back to 1-3 draws they had that then snowballed.

Having a few Pelin or Crow cards help situationally - yeh thats the point of the game - but that can be said about every Patron. If Duke card is best currently available, then I pick that, but I dont insist on taking Crow or Pelin cards only no matter what, which is what majority of players are doing. Rally and Armory can be countered, for instance with lots of Ansei that are returning your +power cards back on top or by thinning your deck with Eagle cards, by which you rotate your best cards much faster than your opponent. Or you can slog your opponent with Rahjin and basically thwart the entire Duke combo.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here that red eagle is as big of a counter as you say. I'm guessing I have one more rank to unlock that thing and I can see it being a good combo with both raven and ansei. But I've only played I think 1 or 2 matches with it. Having these two card decks unlocked so late in the game (but good carrot) probably is masking what the balance is truly like.

All I'm seeing right now is that my win percentage against certain pulls is very high when in my favor and lose percentage is very high when not in my favor. An example of that are things like armory pulls and rally pulls. Especially early game. My biggest fear here is that yes you're good. If you're the #1 person, I'm guessing you're a big fan of card games since its named after ToT. But your experience may not be the representation of them all. My opinion may not be either, I recognize that. I just don't want ToT to end up like arena of kings. That was a good game and a very small percentage of the top players convinced the developers to change their game to be more competitive/fit what they viewed as the right pvp way to go. The game lost about 70% of its playerbase in a little over a week. The rest the following 2 weeks till it was abandoned. ESO is good in that ToT is just a mini game and there's a whole MMORPG to keep players "in the game". I think the best way to counter this is to just look at the stats. Zenimax should be keeping track of the contents of the winning player's deck and the losing players deck. If they're seeing 1-3 cards per deck have a super high win percentage; then that's something I think they should take a look at more in depth. Even better if they track how many rounds were played when the card was taken (Like 1 round = 1 turn by each player. Early game is considered 1-10 rounds, mid 10-20, late 30+). So that then you can even see the data on how the game stage impacted the win rate with the card. Hell I'm thinking about doing this myself now that I'm in leaderboard. Most players here understand the basics of the game + the basics of the patrons. It will be interesting to see the win rates of these cards in my personal experience using a spread sheet.

TheForFeeF · June 2022

There should be a penalty for conceding, but it shouldn't be a time focused penalty. All that should happen is you don't get any rewards/xp. Otherwise, you could just abuse this to rank up fast.

What I tend to do, if I am clearly in a losing position, is just pass my turn and start browsing something on the internet whilst I wait.

Lysette · June 2022

Rouz wrote: »

kmfdm wrote: »

Rouz wrote: »

Then you must have figured out a strat that most of the leaderboard hasn't. I've rarely seen an early game wombo combo card control of crow or a early game rally/armory control be properly countered except by each other. Ansei is sorta like a half support half attack hybrid. So even when using that, having a few good crow/pelin cards in there really help. Seems like a majority of my wins or loses I trace back to 1-3 draws they had that then snowballed.

Having a few Pelin or Crow cards help situationally - yeh thats the point of the game - but that can be said about every Patron. If Duke card is best currently available, then I pick that, but I dont insist on taking Crow or Pelin cards only no matter what, which is what majority of players are doing. Rally and Armory can be countered, for instance with lots of Ansei that are returning your +power cards back on top or by thinning your deck with Eagle cards, by which you rotate your best cards much faster than your opponent. Or you can slog your opponent with Rahjin and basically thwart the entire Duke combo.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here that red eagle is as big of a counter as you say. I'm guessing I have one more rank to unlock that thing and I can see it being a good combo with both raven and ansei. But I've only played I think 1 or 2 matches with it. Having these two card decks unlocked so late in the game (but good carrot) probably is masking what the balance is truly like.

All I'm seeing right now is that my win percentage against certain pulls is very high when in my favor and lose percentage is very high when not in my favor. An example of that are things like armory pulls and rally pulls. Especially early game. My biggest fear here is that yes you're good. If you're the #1 person, I'm guessing you're a big fan of card games since its named after ToT. But your experience may not be the representation of them all. My opinion may not be either, I recognize that. I just don't want ToT to end up like arena of kings. That was a good game and a very small percentage of the top players convinced the developers to change their game to be more competitive/fit what they viewed as the right pvp way to go. The game lost about 70% of its playerbase in a little over a week. The rest the following 2 weeks till it was abandoned. ESO is good in that ToT is just a mini game and there's a whole MMORPG to keep players "in the game". I think the best way to counter this is to just look at the stats. Zenimax should be keeping track of the contents of the winning player's deck and the losing players deck. If they're seeing 1-3 cards per deck have a super high win percentage; then that's something I think they should take a look at more in depth. Even better if they track how many rounds were played when the card was taken (Like 1 round = 1 turn by each player. Early game is considered 1-10 rounds, mid 10-20, late 30+). So that then you can even see the data on how the game stage impacted the win rate with the card. Hell I'm thinking about doing this myself now that I'm in leaderboard. Most players here understand the basics of the game + the basics of the patrons. It will be interesting to see the win rates of these cards in my personal experience using a spread sheet.

who is playing 30 turns?- or even 20 - that would be just a gain of about 2 prestige in average per turn - nah, the game is much faster than you think - it just takes long against novice NPCs, because they cripple themselves by not picking up the best cards and just using the hlaalu patron - but playing with other than novice NPC is much different and fast-paced.