Oakensoul Granting Heroism is Not Acceptable
acastanza_ESO
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
✭✭✭
The ability to spam ultimates completely breaks PVP. Having this item allow you to do that is absolutely abhorrent game design.
I'm honestly thinking about quitting PVP until it's inevitable nerf which cannot come soon enough.
I'm honestly thinking about quitting PVP until it's inevitable nerf which cannot come soon enough.
16
-
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Time for some Major TimidityXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast4 -
HonestLoverr✭✭✭People had high major heroism uptime before too. Not constantly but high enough. Ball groups stacking buffs was a thing before as well just like countless other buffs, more than the mythic grants. So that's not unique to this mythic at all. And you can't even tell who is actually wearing it, since fights usually don't last long enough to notice. People not switching to their backbar doesn't mean they have it on either.
Bombs break PvP (or the sets used for it, to be exact). As always, ball groups will just put on the same new sets like everyone else. Regardless of what people wearing you will not last long either way. What I noticed though is, once I have it on I stand at least a chance at taking out someone from a ball group that was left behind. Which I couldn't do before because I couldn't outpressure their hots and buffs, no to mention damage. On the flipside I get melted even faster.
Oakensoul Ring brings players more up on par with the ridiculously overpowered ball groups farming everyone in a single aoe oneshot. Which is definitely a good thing. But at the cost of survivability and flexibility. Which is a heavily underestimated downside. Because of this downside people will switch over to any of the other mythics as soon as the hype and hate train over this thing dried out. With only ball groups and those prefering 1 bar builds to play with for whatever reason sticking with it. Mark my words.4 -
WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭I swear player all had a chance to say something about this on the PTS ?
If this ring didn't have Heroism it would only be useless even with M force. But if players think its too OP in pvp if ZOS nerfs it, watch how many players run it.
Nobody will and will be another useless mythic item !5 -
Kory✭✭✭✭HonestLoverr well you're right.
Dev comment from patch 8.0.3.
"We’re doubling down on the identity of this Mythic, where it’s meant to be an alternative to running many abilities that would naturally grant you a ton of power in form of duration-based bonuses. Our hope is that the access to a ton of Major and Minor buffs really helps this Mythic stamp itself down as an accessibility option to players who don’t have access to sweaty buff uptimes, group compositions, and high APM. The removal of unique stats takes away any situation where this Mythic felt like a straight upgrade to others and carves a unique spot that is more niche than what was previously seen, but still stands its ground with granting you access to a lot of raw power. "Edited by Kory on 10 June 2022 05:503 -
HonestLoverr✭✭✭Agreed. With the lack of the whole backbar means a 1 bar build has to make up for it somehow. Even with all the buffs 1 bar builds are still lacking. Being able to cast ults more often by granting major heroism is one is definitely needed. Without this I would straight park it on the bank to collect dust and demand a refund for High Isle. It was the sole reason I bought the DLC in the first place.
The constant rebuffing and bar switching every couple seconds was just annoying and too much for my taste. After all these years I still can't get used to this. And the Oakensoul Ring changed gameplay to the better and is finally truely fun again. I can focus more on the action that way. The viablity of this for PvE is a bonus on top.
The only thing I really dislike about it in general is, they should have made 1barring with buffs a feature instead of a mythic.4 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anyone arguing this is okay has clearly not fought against an organized group all running it. It is extremely and unacceptably overpowered and the absolutely ridiculous ult uptimes are a major part of that.Edited by acastanza_ESO on 10 June 2022 06:4011 -
HonestLoverr✭✭✭There would literally be no point in farming for new sets if devs released them in a useless state. Who would even buy an expac or keep playing if everything is worthless? So yes, of course thats ok...
And to the corrosive example, dk is nerfed into oblivion again. Their ults are the only things left worth it playing as one in PvP. If you wanna play a pure caster you are better off rolling a sorc. That class got massively buffed and has easy time to outplay dks any day. Just had a fight 3v1 against this bow sorc. We all got grounded. He was only streaking to LoS at rocks and trees, getting back and forth and streak streak streak, pulling off bow ults, and 1 by 1 everyone was dead.
Good for all the stamsorc players. Was about time they get a piece of the cake too. Would be better though if all classes were equally viable instead of 1 or 2 fotm classes with every major update.1 -
UntilValhalla13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It'll be gutted in a month. They need something to sell the expansion, and it's not the card game.7 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well.... I guess I am gonna wait with farming it & making a build... Last thing I would like to happen is to make a build, using up resources for it, and then seeing that build getting wrecked by nerfs.... And Oakensoul will most likely get nerfed. I would be surprised if it was not lol
That is to say, I guess I wont be touching PvP any time soon. If I don't have Oakensoul - I am at huge disadvantage. If I have Oakensoul, then status of this item is (most likely) temporary & making a build with it will be only a temporary boost. Not something that will stay with you.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on 10 June 2022 08:372 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a example of what this ring is capable of atm you can have a 90% uptime on corrosive armor downtime windows of a few seconds its ridiculous
I call ***. It wasn't possible with Pearls of Ehlnofey & mend wounds for +10 ulti/sec. It is definitely not possible with +2 ulti/sec.10 -
xDeusEJRx✭✭✭✭✭
✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »why would a ball group use oakensoul lmao ?
Yeah I don't even play in groups and I don't see the point. Your group members can just provide you an uptime on a lot of your buffs as well as being able to cross heals as well on back bar and having synergies. Oakensoul in a group in my opinion, just doesn't make sense.
I thought the entire purpose of oakensoul was mainly to buff solo playSolo PvP'er PS5 NA player
90% of my body is made of Magblade3 -
EF321✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Hmmm just in theory:
Oakensoul
Bloodspawn
Potentates frontbar + jewelry piece
Whatever non minor heroism ulti gen 5-piece, I don't know what's good (Werewolf hide, Tava's, Eye of a grasp?)
1pc trainee
Be nord or imperial
Ulti pots, and if not enough, decisive weapon
I mean, we are not talking about it being viable for anything, right?
Alternatively, swap 5 piece for Elf Bane and go Magma.2 -
HonestLoverr✭✭✭Heard people talking about having successfully made magnb bombers viable again with the ring. No idea how that compares to the already established build setups ball groups run nowadays, because I don't care about organized grouplay anymore since ball groups became player farming oneshot trains. But I assume if they are really as viable as people make it out to be, magnb oaken bomber could get a spot in ball groups too.
I don't really care though. I hate "organized" bombing with passion.1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Actually I was thinking that in a "Ball Group" the biggest flaw of the Oakensoul is um... ignored, since ball group builds are basically highly specialised "spam" builds with only a couple of skills being used. So definitely "only one bar" would not be an issue. Especially in no CP / No Proc as there is less things to worry about.MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »why would a ball group use oakensoul lmao ?Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on 10 June 2022 12:153 -
KiltMaster✭✭✭✭✭don't worry it'll get nerfed in a few weeks - they always do that.
I think the trade-off is pretty fair tho. A lot of people use their back bars for their buffs, healing, etc. Now they can't.
it'll stop the R.R. spam which'll help that's for sure.PC/NA
GM of "Kilts for Sale"
twitch.tv/thekiltmaster
He/Him1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »why would a ball group use oakensoul lmao ?
1 or two healers with permanent restro staff uptimes. Permanent Major courage on all team members. Permanent major force. The lack of need for bar swap, or keeping buffs up, since your group members can fill in for an shortcomings in build setup.
There are literally gameplay videos of this already. It's insane.Shokasegambit1 wrote: »I swear player all had a chance to say something about this on the PTS ?
If this ring didn't have Heroism it would only be useless even with M force. But if players think its too OP in pvp if ZOS nerfs it, watch how many players run it.
Nobody will and will be another useless mythic item !
Players did say something. There were multiple threads dedicated to pointing out how ridiculously overpowered this ring was going to be, and how broken major heroism was on it. There were build and gameplay videos with players having 3 storm atros active at the same time, corrosive uptime nearly on cooldown, etc.5 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Hmmm just in theory:
Oakensoul
Bloodspawn
Potentates frontbar + jewelry piece
Whatever non minor heroism ulti gen 5-piece, I don't know what's good (Werewolf hide, Tava's, Eye of a grasp?)
1pc trainee
Be nord or imperial
Ulti pots, and if not enough, decisive weapon
I mean, we are not talking about it being viable for anything, right?
Alternatively, swap 5 piece for Elf Bane and go Magma.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pCWh4_nfyO-67NYrTunpgacBsYGXVZrrIOfm4AeKuZU/edit?usp=sharing
Yeah it goes to those numbers in Tava and ideal conditions. Real conditions would make you sad. And if opponent understands what you are doing, he will just run off for 10s and you won't get bloodspawn, tava, nord bonuses for the whole duration. Turning back to you, he will have at least 10s to kill you.
Tava also needs dodges, so extra stam wasted.
If you want to try it, you can. I bet it's not as good as ppl want to make it sound.3 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭One bar builds should never be able to compete with normal builds, under no circumstances at all. This item was supposed to help one bar builds a bit but made them meta on a lot of builds. Great...I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.4 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ultimates power is balance around cost / downtime, this item throws the balance of ultimates out of the window
It doesnt even makes sense to have major heroism on the oakensoul ring, the design idea behind this seems to be that the rings removes a bar but gives you most buffs in a passive way so players with low-APM can do vet content, but major heroism is not a buff that you can access with skills and not with 100% uptime (shimmering shield is the only skill?). I really can't understand how the combat team approved the ring in the current form, what the hell happened in that zoom call, the combat team was slept?5 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭Isnt Oakensoul made for disabled people and people that are for other reasons unable to play with a second bar to make them competitive? I know many players that had no problems with 2 bars and still use oakensoul ring because it makes them stronger. They also told me to get oakensoul ring, but i dont have chapter, because it doesnt offer anything else interisting. I dont have any problems changing bars if it works, only when it lags and u type bar swap want to cast my heals and insteat cast a skill that is now useless because the bar swap was ignored. Seems like this Item made to help disabled people also makes not disabled people stronger, but only makes disabled people competitive that buy the expension before it hets nerfed.0
-
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Isnt Oakensoul made for disabled people and people that are for other reasons unable to play with a second bar to make them competitive? I know many players that had no problems with 2 bars and still use oakensoul ring because it makes them stronger. They also told me to get oakensoul ring, but i dont have chapter, because it doesnt offer anything else interisting. I dont have any problems changing bars if it works, only when it lags and u type bar swap want to cast my heals and insteat cast a skill that is now useless because the bar swap was ignored. Seems like this Item made to help disabled people also makes not disabled people stronger, but only makes disabled people competitive that buy the expension before it hets nerfed.
Oakensoul isn’t made for disabled people lmao.
They launch OP Mythics to sell an expansion to people who otherwise would not purchase it. Nearly every PvPer will buy this PvE-only chapter because of an OP set item.
12 -
deleted221106-002999✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Isnt Oakensoul made for disabled people and people that are for other reasons unable to play with a second bar to make them competitive? I know many players that had no problems with 2 bars and still use oakensoul ring because it makes them stronger. They also told me to get oakensoul ring, but i dont have chapter, because it doesnt offer anything else interisting. I dont have any problems changing bars if it works, only when it lags and u type bar swap want to cast my heals and insteat cast a skill that is now useless because the bar swap was ignored. Seems like this Item made to help disabled people also makes not disabled people stronger, but only makes disabled people competitive that buy the expension before it hets nerfed.
It, like it's forgotten predecessors, is made to sell the chapter.
There's no 'official' statement about disability access although it would be great if it works well for that demographic.
Regardless, once sales/other internal metric is reached, the ring will be nerfed.7 -
EF321✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pCWh4_nfyO-67NYrTunpgacBsYGXVZrrIOfm4AeKuZU/edit?usp=sharing
Yeah it goes to those numbers in Tava and ideal conditions. Real conditions would make you sad. And if opponent understands what you are doing, he will just run off for 10s and you won't get bloodspawn, tava, nord bonuses for the whole duration. Turning back to you, he will have at least 10s to kill you.
Tava also needs dodges, so extra stam wasted.
If you want to try it, you can. I bet it's not as good as ppl want to make it sound.
Thanks for the math!
I was just thinking of how one can achieve such uptimes. I think it is too much investment into one gimmick for it to be viable.0 -
neferpitou73✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
Actually I was thinking that in a "Ball Group" the biggest flaw of the Oakensoul is um... ignored, since ball group builds are basically highly specialised "spam" builds with only a couple of skills being used. So definitely "only one bar" would not be an issue. Especially in no CP / No Proc as there is less things to worry about.MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »why would a ball group use oakensoul lmao ?
No. I'd never even touch Oakensoul in a ball group comp. The only buffs Oakensoul gives that our comp doesn't already have are Major Heorism and Major Berserk (and major force, but we don't run crit and could just add horn if we wanted it that badly). On the other hand we get major buffs from the sets we run on backbar as well as extra room for buff/delayed damage skills that don't fit well on the frontbar.
If anything I'm glad that Oakensoul has all of these ridiculous buffs because now people can stop complaining that we get buffs they can't.Edited by neferpitou73 on 10 June 2022 15:411 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorry but the heroism isn't what makes oakensoul powerful. Yes it's nice, but it's also kind of necessary. Take a necro build for example: with oakensoul you don't have any room for a corpse consumption ability, which means even with major heroism you're getting much slower ult gen than you would be otherwise (potency and intensive mender is almost 3 ult a second when factoring in the corpse consumption passive).
Ball groups will absolutely not be running oakensoul. 2 people can give an entire ball group all of the important buffs oakensoul gives besides Force and Berserk (and on certain setups you could easily fit those into a ball group comp too). Sure there's the heal ult spam build going around with oakensoul, but at the end of the day, if a healer is running Oakensoul they will not have enough healing abilities to keep themselves or their team alive against good players.
What makes oakensoul good is the major force. On crit builds, Oakensoul skyrockets your damage. Gank blades and niche crit builds are what will be able to really use the ring to its fullest potential.4 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shokasegambit1 wrote: »I swear player all had a chance to say something about this on the PTS ?
If this ring didn't have Heroism it would only be useless even with M force. But if players think its too OP in pvp if ZOS nerfs it, watch how many players run it.
Nobody will and will be another useless mythic item !
I will note that Zenimax clearly heard a lot of feedback on this ring which lead to adjustments while on the PTS. I expect they are more focused on the feedback on bugs than complaints that should have been registered while this was on the PTS>
So yes, I clearly agree with you.
Edited by Amottica on 10 June 2022 17:320 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Excel vs reality.
Video and build by @Decimus
https://youtu.be/jtkoJ4l0BlE
Build link:
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=405109Edited by Mayrael on 10 June 2022 18:17Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge5 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭HonestLoverr wrote: »And to the corrosive example, dk is nerfed into oblivion again.
This definitely isn't true. We kept the extended time on Seething Fury stacks, the uncapped Battle Roar, the new World in Ruin, the new cost for Ash Cloud, and Power Lash did not get a cooldown. All solid buffs from Update 32 that remain.
Not that I think perma-Corrosive builds are going to be taking the top spot in PvP, but of course I intend to slot it over Leap with Oakensoul. Granted I'm not going to be slotting Ash Cloud with Oakensoul, I don't think, but finally this skill is useable in PvP.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast2
