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Cyrodil fishing - a bit factionally biased?
HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip
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Both skyshards and fishing in cyro present a collection challenge to any player. They often involve deep incursion into an enemy's territory. Players who actually enjoy PVP (myself included) will get some progress just by playing if they want, but they probably need to solo deep to really get it all done....and it presents a real challenge to a completionist PVE player - hey, it's a game, right? It's supposed to be challenging...but bear with me....
Facts as I see them:
Ok, so before folks jump down my throat, let me make it clear I acknowledge a few realities:
However, I ask devs and maybe some experienced players the following:
As I said above, I know this is relatively niche, but we talk about balance a lot. This isn't balanced. I know a real world wouldn't be balanced, but this game isn't the real world and at least claims to aim for balance - it's that lore vs fair battle that always rages.
Facts as I see them:
- All three factions have a decent amount of Lake and River nodes.
- EP have a chunk more Lake and River nodes. DC and AD are about even.
- Except for a couple nodes heading down into AD territory, foul nodes are all centred around the Imperial city lake/moat.
- Foul is probably the single area where DC get anything up on the other two. They have about as many foul nodes as EP and AD do put together....but let's be honest....hugging the waterway in the centre of the map might as well be considered neutral. There's largely no reason for active win-seeking PVP folks to get that close to the water.
- AD, (and to a small extent EP near the AD border) have exclusive rights on salt water fishing holes. These are relatively deep in territory. This is a unique bonus for AD. Nowhere on the north side of the map has a unique ownership of a node.
Ok, so before folks jump down my throat, let me make it clear I acknowledge a few realities:
- Ultimately, Cyrodil has a certain geography, as does the three banners war. I understand we can't magically stick an Ocean up in the DC zone.
- I understand the facts I outline above are not that big of an impediment....Much like skyshards, if you keep an eye on a couple campaigns, you'll eventually find a pretty happy time to get deep into the enemy faction zones and get what you need.
- I know it' a small, niche part of the player population that even cares about fishing at all. I get this. Until very recently I could have sworn I'd never shoot for master fisherman, but I've decided to use it as a way to do something completely different for a bit and keep the game fresh, as I have previously done with expanding and levelling the toons I have, collecting all motifs on my main, etc.
- DC are better than EP, and AD are a horrible faction...so maybe this is the devs recognising that? (jks just trying to rile you up....it's mostly just the NPCs that make AD the worst movement in the world right now, not that many of the players
)
However, I ask devs and maybe some experienced players the following:
- While you can't magically stick an Ocean in the DC zone, surely you don't have to drop a fishing node in every river, lake etc? We see their absence in plenty of water bodies elsewhere in Tamriel.
- Given it's pretty unrealistic to give each faction ocean nodes, why would you not do something like?:
- Leave foul as is, maybe get rid of the handful of fouls outside of the IC moat down south to truly even things out.
- Acknowledge Salt can only exist where it does currently. Add a bunch more nodes for AD for balance.
- But then, arbitrarily (but for the sake of balance) give DC exclusive or near exclusive rights on lakes, and similar for EP with rivers (or vice versa)
- ORRRRR go the other way, and give everyone at least some nodes of all types in their zone...recognise that some of that central IC moat would be brackish and could be considered salty due to its connection to the ocean and drop some salt nodes among the fouls around the centre.
As I said above, I know this is relatively niche, but we talk about balance a lot. This isn't balanced. I know a real world wouldn't be balanced, but this game isn't the real world and at least claims to aim for balance - it's that lore vs fair battle that always rages.
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perfiction✭✭✭✭✭I did Cyro fishing achievement on AD toon and it took me around 45 minutes (with fishing CP slottables + Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl food), it felt pretty easy and I believe AD has some advantage (even map shows it).
But well, achievements are now account wide so you can just use other alliance toon to catch missing fish.Edited by perfiction on 7 May 2022 14:525 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
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^^perfiction wrote: »(...) well, achievements are now account wide so you can just use other alliance toon to catch missing fish."Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother | VforVendetta | Grownups Gaming EU | English Elders [PS][EU] 2360 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest | Eternal Champions | Legacy | Tamriel Melting Pot [PS][NA] 2190 CP
- SweetTrolls | Spring Rose | Daggerfall Royal Legion | Tinnitus Delux [PC][EU] 2345 CP
- Bacon Rats | Silverlight Brotherhood | Canis Root Tea Party | Vincula Doloris [PC][NA] 2090 CP
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HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip✭✭✭✭Haha I understand AWA of course guys...but where is your commitment?
Edited by HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip on 7 May 2022 15:057 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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I knew about the EP eastward hole and the two at AD side but not the two center ones.HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »
Fairly exhaustive map for reference...
Benefit of the AD holes is that you focus on saltwater and do lake or river then they are down.
And yes its harder to get on an DC one.
Here is this one fishing the saltwater hole I think.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I ran 4 different characters (one on each of two accounts, both PC megaservers) through Master Angler a couple years back. I did Cyro first on all of them (to get it out of the way....) It took me a few days to get all 4 done (especially because, on all of them, the blue foul water fish was VERY slow to catch).
I never got ganked. I saw only a couple of op fac characters (both AD) and they were fishing as well, they ignored me, I ignored them.
I fished on 2 AD characters and two DC characters. Compared to fishing Shadowfen, Cyro was a piece of cake....1 -
Gaeliannas✭✭✭✭✭I got all my fishing done in enemy territory long before I started PVPing. Was a bit nerve wracking at first, until I realized the only people near the fishing spots were all fishing. Never once got killed, as most players seem to leave fisherman alone, as does everyone I know now that we do PVP. It is not that uncommon to have folks from 2-3 different factions sharing a fishing hole peacefully, I do not think any changes need to be made. If you see a big group approaching, which you shouldn't because most holes are not near objectives, just hide while they pass.
The biggest danger fishing in Cyro, is accidentally sticking your toe in the water.
Edited by Gaeliannas on 7 May 2022 16:475 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Gaeliannas wrote: »
The biggest danger fishing in Cyro, is accidentally sticking your toe in the water.
No joke, that!
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Whichever Dev placed the fishing holes was an AD player, and you won't convince me otherwise.
/s7 -
Drammanoth✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »Gaeliannas wrote: »
The biggest danger fishing in Cyro, is accidentally sticking your toe in the water.
No joke, that!
As sick as it does sound, yes it's true
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Sparxlost✭✭✭May i suggest to you the Fiords set from Eastmarch if you are having trouble fishing/questing in pvp?
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HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip✭✭✭✭May i suggest to you the Fiords set from Eastmarch if you are having trouble fishing/questing in pvp?
Not having trouble as such. I have all the skyshards where I want to and after about a week of actually trying I am two fish short of master, last two being in cyro (more coz it’s annoying to move in and out of than it being the hardest fishing zone or anything).
Less a complaint, and more an observation that this very non pvp achievement is not well balanced across the three pvp faction zones….and that seems at odds with most of the claims/approaches in the rest of the pvp gameplay.0 -
HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »Compared to fishing Shadowfen, Cyro was a piece of cake....
This!
I mean, I’ve only gotten more than a
handful of fish prior to last week and now I’m on to my final two….but I agree 100%.
For a zone that is mostly bodies of water, shadowfen was slow, confusing, and boring.
It was less about getting the fish to drop,..And it was not even about previously identified holes being empty/inactive (which definitely made coldharbour the second hardest for me when coupled with the difficulty identifying jumping fish from a distance in that briny molag blue to begin with)
…the problem with shafowfen was that you just don’t find that many holes…even when referencing a shared map and even with it being mostly water, lol.
Shadowfen is probably actually a really good example of my balancing suggestions above - it shows that even though every pvp faction zone might inarguably have a river, lake etc , that doesn’t mean they all have to have fishing holes if that creates a factional imbalance.
Edited by HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip on 7 May 2022 18:120 -
TwinLamps✭✭✭✭✭
✭HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »Haha I understand AWA of course guys...but where is your commitment?
Now multiply that by 5 and but all are EP and you get the idea of my 5 accountsAwake, but at what cost0 -
LurgidBean✭✭✭✭When I was fishing for saltwater fish as a lone blue in yellow territory I was killed multiple times, by different people. The holes are kind of out of the way, and it wasn't prime time so it was curious. Which is part of the game so I'm not complaining. Just a LONNNNNNG ride. But, everyone is like "Tamriel comes together for fishing! I fish with all three alliances in Cyro all the time!"
Needless to say, going in with a peaceful, positive, pescetarian perspective proved problematic.Xbox NA/EU
"Once I misplaced an entire roast chicken, so this doesn't surprise me."2 -
proprio.meb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Have had worse issues in other zones... fishing in cyro has been quite easy for me (ive the master angler plus all other fishing achv on my main), far easier than fishing in ic or in other zones with just one type of catch... the only drawback in pvp zones is that you need to go in cp ones if you want your green perks to work...2 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When my elf catches a fish, she's never been able to tell whether they are AD, EP or DC. How do you tell?PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo1 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »When my elf catches a fish, she's never been able to tell whether they are AD, EP or DC. How do you tell?
By the zone you caught them in?1 -
Molydeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭perfiction wrote: »But well, achievements are now account wide so you can just use other alliance toon to catch missing fish.
That makes the achievement so lame though... like getting Grand Master Crafter by learning the basic race motifs on a bunch of level 1 alts.1 -
HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip✭✭✭✭proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »Have had worse issues in other zones... fishing in cyro has been quite easy for me (ive the master angler plus all other fishing achv on my main), far easier than fishing in ic or in other zones with just one type of catch... the only drawback in pvp zones is that you need to go in cp ones if you want your green perks to work...
Ahhhh good point! Didn’t think of this at all and I’m pretty sure I had spent some time in No-CP due to recent pop locks on the more popular instances. Cheers.0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Heh. I did all mine before the CP rework. And now it doesn't make any difference anyway.... Though I'm still going to finish my next four, as it's cheaper (my time) than buying Perfect Roe....0 -
Alinhbo_Tyaka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Like others have said getting the fishing achievement isn't that bad. I'm a PvE only player and was never attacked while fishing. I've also found I've been left alone while skyshard hunting and with the exception of those behind other alliances gates were pretty easy to complete without being killed.0 -
IsharaMeradin✭✭✭✭I'll have to second that getting Cyrodiil fish was much easier than getting Imperial City fish. I was killed a lot in Imperial City as all the water holes are on the same side as the flags.
While I saw a few players from other factions when fishing in Cyrodiil most were focused on their own activities to bother me. And while I did have an addon to show markers for fishing holes, I checked out every watery area that I passed. Found some that were not marked and this may have helped me avoid the "crowds". If I am not mistaken there are a few more sea water holes along that coast line.
The tedious part was checking out one spot to find no active holes and then figuring out how to get to the next area.PC-NA / PC-EUID @IsharaMeradin
Characters NA
Verin Jenet Eshava - Dark Elf Warden (main)
Nerissa Valin - Imperial Necromancer (secondary)
Lugsa-Lota-Stuph - Argonian Sorcerer
Leanne Martin - Breton Templar
Latash Gra-Ushaba - Orc Dragonknight
Ishara Merádin - Redguard Nightblade
Arylina Loreal - High Elf Sorcerer
Sasha al'Therin - Nord Necromancer
Paula Roseróbloom - Wood Elf Warden
Ja'Linga - Khajiit Arcanist
Characters EU
Shallan Veil - Wood Elf Warden
ID @IsharaMeradin-Epic
Characters NA
Ja'Sassy-Daro - Khajiit Nightblade
Natash af-Ishara - Redguard Warden
Shallan Radiant Veil - Dark Elf Arcanist0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »Haha I understand AWA of course guys...but where is your commitment?
A fellow DC player!
Honestly, it's not that bad. The hard part is the ocean fishing spots right outside the AD scroll gate, but everything else is out of the way.
Recommend bringing a lot of invisibility potions, Stage 4 vampire, or a Nightblade for the AD fishing spots.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A couple Saltwater nodes has you very close to as well as right in the path of the AD east gate. As an EP player that was my most stressful moments as you can't trust everyone running by from the gate won't leave you be. Fishermen are easy targets. At least I was fishing on my Nightblade that I also PvP with, but still, head, swivel, constant.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
Czeri✭✭✭✭✭The only reason I managed to get master angler on my DC main is that caught fish used to need to be consumed before the game registered it for the achievement. I just had an AD toon do the fishing and put the fish in the bank.
I wonder if you could pull it off nowadays with the system-wide achievement thing?Edited by Czeri on 8 May 2022 08:490
