OakenSoul (week 2 nerfs)

Tenthirty2 · May 2022

The only thing that surprised me is that they nerfed it pre-launch in PTS instead of waiting for a patch or two after launch to draw in players or generate chapter sales.

After first reading about it tho I fully expected it would be nerfed at some point after launch bcuz it was OP af. Would have been a super fun toy for a time.

I'll still hunt it up and try it for my WW build as I originally intended. Just wont be as jaw-droppingly OP as it originally looked.

Yarcanine · May 2022

Melzo wrote: »

You must put attack, escape and heal into 5 slots. You will become a weaker version of the werewolf. Is it worth it?? Dog gives more buffs and more balanced abilities than Class . Werewolves are pretty weak. And with a ring, you'll be worse than a werewolf. And a lot. Much, much worse than a werewolf.

This build has everything you asked for, you could also slot anything else you wanted instead of Bound Armaments. Has access to all the class passives and weapon passives which WW doesn't.

jaws343 · May 2022

Tenthirty2 wrote: »

The only thing that surprised me is that they nerfed it pre-launch in PTS instead of waiting for a patch or two after launch to draw in players or generate chapter sales.

After first reading about it tho I fully expected it would be nerfed at some point after launch bcuz it was OP af. Would have been a super fun toy for a time.

I'll still hunt it up and try it for my WW build as I originally intended. Just wont be as jaw-droppingly OP as it originally looked.

I personally think the idea that they keep some of these sets and mythics strong in order to increase chapter sales is a bit overblown.

Some of the larger issue sets over the last few years seem to fall more in the area of just a misjudgement on the impact of the set compared to the impact they wanted the set to have.

Xinihp · May 2022

SainguinKrist wrote: »

That ring was obviously, undeniably, way OP for a single item.

Thing is if you actually theorycraft it, no it wasn't. The stats were really about perfect accounting for the loss of backbar buffs (including 3rd set pre-procing) and heals.

The ring was a little OP on currently transformed werewolves, that is it.

What they should have done is limit the effectiveness of the ring while transformed. Instead, they made it basically not worth running for anyone other than some guy playing with 400+ms ping who physically can't bar swap.

Really, how many people is that though, for a major expansion feature "mythic" item?

Vonkarolinas · May 2022

As another player who plays a lot of one bar builds, because I'm lazy and don't like to bar swap, I don't see this a being a nerf. It's just a change.

I see a LOT of people arguing "use potions for X". No. Why would I use potions that I have to constantly keep up when I can have this provide it at all times and use my potions for something else? Something that I don't have to monitor constantly? As is, I barely use potions that I spend time crafting.

Having an item like this that provides so many buffs opens up a skill slot or two to play with and potentially the chance to explore new armor sets for your builds.

One that I have that slays does vary well across the board and I can only see this making them better.

Xinihp · May 2022

@Vonkarolinas

I think the problem people have is this went from a useful MYTHIC item (once per year special expansion item) that ANYONE could theorycraft and find a viable use for, to something that only really finds use with people not playing the game the way it was designed (with two bars) for whatever reason.

I don't doubt people who only use one bar could find a use for such an item as it now stands. However I think such a niche group would be better served by a craftable set or more common item, not reducing such a rare new thing we only get once a year to only being useful to a group which probably makes up less than 1/4 of the game's population of paying customers.

It is fine that 1-bar people play 1-bar, that is not the point. Nerfing a once a year "mythic" expansion feature item so bad it is only useful to 1/4 or less of the most casual of the game's population just because it was over-performing on werewolf builds is obviously WAY over the top.

You can't blame people who paid full price to pre-order an expansion feeling a little cheated to have one of the key selling features taken away before it even goes live, can you?

Crashtestdummy87 · May 2022

Xinihp wrote: »

You can't blame people who paid full price to pre-order an expansion feeling a little cheated to have one of the key selling features taken away before it even goes live, can you?

buying an expansion for 1 item is a clear indication that it was overpowered

Melzo · May 2022

Kahnak What kind of nonsense are you talking about?? Can you deal 100k damage on the doll? So what?? Even without a ring, you can give out the same amount. What does it give?? 4ka to all characteristics?? you can take a kilt or Belharza's Band or Death Dealer's Fete . Even with one panel, you can get all the bonuses of the ring except for the defense buff.

Yes, you can deal the same amount of damage from one bar without this ring in the same amount. What's in pvp, what's in pve - crap. Without the second bar, you lose any defensive abilities or even more damage. And in pvp you become a crab. No matter how pro you are, crab claws grow with this ring...

Pevey · May 2022

The stats needed to be turned down, but what they did to it was way over the top.

It is designed as a kiss curse item. You get the higher stats, but with the curse of not being able to bar swap.

As it is now on PTS, it would be sorta okay if the curse were completely removed. It would still not replace Kilt, but at least it might have a place in some solo builds (but maybe not--giving up ring of the pale order for solo would be tough).

But if stuck to one bar, it is a completely useless item.

MudcrabAttack · May 2022

It’s kind of funny how a 1 bar build is better off with any of the other mythic items instead of Oakensoul now for damage in a group setting

Kahnak · May 2022

Melzo wrote: »

Kahnak What kind of nonsense are you talking about?? Can you deal 100k damage on the doll? So what?? Even without a ring, you can give out the same amount. What does it give?? 4ka to all characteristics?? you can take a kilt or Belharza's Band or Death Dealer's Fete . Even with one panel, you can get all the bonuses of the ring except for the defense buff.

Yes, you can deal the same amount of damage from one bar without this ring in the same amount. What's in pvp, what's in pve - crap. Without the second bar, you lose any defensive abilities or even more damage. And in pvp you become a crab. No matter how pro you are, crab claws grow with this ring...

"And in pvp you become a crab."

- Melzo, professional crab

blue_peaceful_Manticore · May 2022

Crashtestdummy87 wrote: »

Xinihp wrote: »

You can't blame people who paid full price to pre-order an expansion feeling a little cheated to have one of the key selling features taken away before it even goes live, can you?

buying an expansion for 1 item is a clear indication that it was overpowered

Disagree at 100%

my best parse is 73k i can't make it better. I simple can't! Rotation is hard for me. I play piano and i can move my fingers. But coordinate rotation is very very hard to me. I can imagine other players have the same problem with rotation... Some players, can't make it.

I never intended buy High Isle. Never! Card game!? wtf lol! No.
But when i see, i can have 100k damage with only one bar... hell yeah! I post "I will buy it, if this is true!" well.... i will not buy it. Not because Ring is overpowered. But for me, there's Nothing interest in there. Nothing!

edit: In pts and befour ring was nerfed i make 87k and i trully enjoy it. When i read about the nerf... i don't even go test it in pts. What will i find? Now i can have 80k!? lol! No thank you

Xinihp · May 2022

Crashtestdummy87 wrote: »

Xinihp wrote: »

You can't blame people who paid full price to pre-order an expansion feeling a little cheated to have one of the key selling features taken away before it even goes live, can you?

buying an expansion for 1 item is a clear indication that it was overpowered

Leaving my quote included since there seems to be some confusion.

Nowhere did I suggest anyone bought the expansion ONLY for that ring, so that's a total non sequitur and possible red herring.

What I said was, ONE of the key selling points. Mythic items are only released with expansions/chapters once a year. That makes these rare and special items a key selling point a lot of people look forward to.

Having one of the cool new items totally squashed for all but maybe 1/4 of the population or less that play only 1-bar builds in a bar swap game before it even gets released is a pretty big disappointment for everyone that was looking forward to what will be the only mythics for this entire YEAR.

jaws343 · May 2022

Xinihp wrote: »

Crashtestdummy87 wrote: »

Xinihp wrote: »

You can't blame people who paid full price to pre-order an expansion feeling a little cheated to have one of the key selling features taken away before it even goes live, can you?

buying an expansion for 1 item is a clear indication that it was overpowered

Leaving my quote included since there seems to be some confusion.

Nowhere did I suggest anyone bought the expansion ONLY for that ring, so that's a total non sequitur and possible red herring.

What I said was, ONE of the key selling points. Mythic items are only released with expansions/chapters once a year. That makes these rare and special items a key selling point a lot of people look forward to.

Having one of the cool new items totally squashed for all but maybe 1/4 of the population or less that play only 1-bar builds in a bar swap game before it even gets released is a pretty big disappointment for everyone that was looking forward to what will be the only mythics for this entire YEAR.

Mythics are also released within the 4th quarter DLC as well. We had Markyn, Belharza, and Spaulder release with Deadlands.

Hapexamendios · May 2022

The PTS turned it into a POS

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2022

Xinihp wrote: »

SainguinKrist wrote: »

That ring was obviously, undeniably, way OP for a single item.

Thing is if you actually theorycraft it, no it wasn't. The stats were really about perfect accounting for the loss of backbar buffs (including 3rd set pre-procing) and heals.

The ring was a little OP on currently transformed werewolves, that is it.

What they should have done is limit the effectiveness of the ring while transformed. Instead, they made it basically not worth running for anyone other than some guy playing with 400+ms ping who physically can't bar swap.

Really, how many people is that though, for a major expansion feature "mythic" item?

My belief is that is who it was originally intended for. They missed the mark out of the gate. It was clearly OP on WW and clearly OP on sorcs that can abuse overload. Perhaps they went to far, but people are still hitting 100k with it. Sorry, I just dont think a single bar build should even be in the same building as a well performed 2 bar build. Viable sure, but not competitive.

Maintaining a GCD of 1 second while dynamically bar swapping is the hardest part about a high end parse. If you remove that from the equation, your damage should be noticeably less.

geonsocal · May 2022

Hapexamendios wrote: »

The PTS turned it into a POS

dmnqwk · May 2022

The most attractive thing about the ring, outside of being overpowered, was definitely the recovery.

Assuming you're on 1500/600/600 you'd go up to 2100/1050/1050 (assuming 24/28% armor passive buffs it) which is quite a big deal. Had they simply kept that level of regen, the item would NOT be a terrible item on par with the torc of tonal nope.

Most characters I've noticed use approximately 1250 to 1600 per second, requiring 2500 to 3200 regen (since it's every 2 seconds).
Assuming 1600 with food buff, 400 from sources like netch or class passives you're looking at 2k, but the ring would've pushed you up to the 2500 meaning potion use didn't require constant chugging and/or short fights where you trend to zero (or outside sources). Obviously, you can reduce your damage by enchanting jewellery with sustain but the amazing 450 sustain on your other damage resource would've been fantastic for many u33 builds, where you use merciless resolve on a stamblade or subterranean assault with a magden... but just getting 30% on top of the pitiful 600 you're likely to have is... bleurgh!

Maybe if we're lucky they can re-design it to be the stats, the sustain and grant those within 8m Major Resolve, Courage, Prophecy/Savagery. Then it might have a place sometimes.

SainguinKrist · May 2022

Yea I keep reading all the replies and it really does boil down to:

"I want a really OP item, I don't care about the games balance or how broken it is, I want it, everyone else be damned"

Pretty selfish if you ask me, and if you people got your way this would become a meta defining item.

1 bar builds are not supposed to be out performing 2 bar, well played builds.

It's that simple. The ring shortens the gap a bit, it's not supposed to completely close the gap AND outperform.

Step back and get some perspective instead of selfishly advocating for something that you want because it's obviously overpowered and broken.

And this ring was the entire reason you were gonna buy High Isle, that's evidence enough it needed to be nerfed.

Lazuli · May 2022

@SainguinKrist this post and comments are old news, they're from week 2 pts changes. I believe the ring is in a totally different place after week 3 notes and more relevant newer posts have been posted.

ZOS_Hadeostry · May 2022

Greetings,

This thread has been moved to the Combat & Character Mechanics section, as it is better suited there.

Thanks

Mr_Stach · May 2022

Oakensoul on any given build will not outperform the top DPS builds, it will however raise the DPS floor for people that really struggle with 2 bar builds.

It's not gonna be Meta, High Performers are gonna do a pass on it.

I really have 0 issue with it

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · May 2022

dmnqwk wrote: »

The most attractive thing about the ring, outside of being overpowered, was definitely the recovery.

I came here looking for this comment.

The only reason I was interested in Oakensoul was as a replacement for Torc. Now that it's been nerfed I have no reason to lose an entire backbar for less sustain.

Torc is just too good for Mag Sorc PvP.

Dark Conversion + Torc + Orzorga's is near infinite sustain and allows you to run Infused Spell Damage jewelry.

Snow_White · May 2022

Honestly, I don’t know why they didn’t just give it a full time Infused/Berserker enchant and the rough DPS equivalent of a Maelstrom staff 2 pc bonus, minus the proc condition of having to stand in a wall.

You gain not needing to bar swap to maintain berserker and some extra light attack damage, you loose the ability to run an optimized front bar. You gain an important buff you’re not going to get from the group, but won’t be blatantly OP since you’re not gaining anything a 2 bar build doesn’t have.

Hescrow · May 2022

This mythic items is against the spirit and gameplay of this game.
Switch between 2 bars with more diversity is the base. I don't know why they created such a Bad thing.
Its complete rework is necessary.

Lazuli · May 2022

Hescrow wrote: »

This mythic items is against the spirit and gameplay of this game.
Switch between 2 bars with more diversity is the base. I don't know why they created such a Bad thing.
Its complete rework is necessary.

@Hescrow Some players (many Australians and Asia-based players) have lag and literally can't effectively switch and use abilities on their second bar with 600+ ping, others can't physically press that many buttons due to various reasons (for me it's for accessibility mainly). This ring will allow for some benefits for minimizing perks and abilities use.

It will provide a feature many of the community has been requesting for a long time.

If you won't benefit from it, look at the bigger picture, here! Many players will literally rejoice and come back to ESO specifically for that ring cause it will solve many problems they've faced.

ZOS_GregoryV · May 2022

Greetings all!

After review, it would seem this thread is a duplicate to another thread, which can be found here. As a result, we have decided to close this thread.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-