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OakenSoul (week 2 nerfs)
Lazuli
✭✭✭
Edit: The ring has been updated in Week 3 notes, and is now in a different place. This post discussed the changes in week 2.
This is the most disappointing nerf I've seen so far, Oakeesoul was gutted. Heck, I've seen some saying that they'd get back to ESO just to try it out. It was the one thing in the next update my in-game community was excited about. Plus, it would be extra handy for gamers with accessibility (myself included).
It's useless now; You're gonna give up an entire bar for some stats + benefits that could be replaced by one skill or two:
1- Major Savagery and Prophecy >> Better slot Inner Light or Camo Hunter (with plenty of useful passives from the mages and fighters guilds)
2- Major Endurance, Fortitude, and Intellect >> Can be easily kept up by Tri-Stat Potions
3- Major Resolve >> Every class has access to it, again with a more beneficial skill that does extra something (even if you don't wanna equip it, a warden could buff all the group with it)
4- Major Courage >> the most commonly used buff to get from healers using Spell Power Cure (and if you're solo, you could use the Sea-serpent's coil to get major courage plus major berserk plus your back bar)
Better solutions to address the dev's comments on the nerf:
1- For the "power spike with Werewolf" comment: add a Werewolf stipulation that cuts the original stats in half while transformed
2- For the "how close many one-bar builds are to two-bar builds" comment: Slightly reduce the original stats by a bit (like back on week 1 PTS or even slightly less), one-bar DPS would never top 2-bar builds with that change.
Please save Oakensoul! I've never been excited that much for a thing to see in-game.
I'm almost tempted to make a petition online and collect signatures to save it
Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on 17 May 2022 22:58 This is the most disappointing nerf I've seen so far, Oakeesoul was gutted. Heck, I've seen some saying that they'd get back to ESO just to try it out. It was the one thing in the next update my in-game community was excited about. Plus, it would be extra handy for gamers with accessibility (myself included).
It's useless now; You're gonna give up an entire bar for some stats + benefits that could be replaced by one skill or two:
1- Major Savagery and Prophecy >> Better slot Inner Light or Camo Hunter (with plenty of useful passives from the mages and fighters guilds)
2- Major Endurance, Fortitude, and Intellect >> Can be easily kept up by Tri-Stat Potions
3- Major Resolve >> Every class has access to it, again with a more beneficial skill that does extra something (even if you don't wanna equip it, a warden could buff all the group with it)
4- Major Courage >> the most commonly used buff to get from healers using Spell Power Cure (and if you're solo, you could use the Sea-serpent's coil to get major courage plus major berserk plus your back bar)
Better solutions to address the dev's comments on the nerf:
1- For the "power spike with Werewolf" comment: add a Werewolf stipulation that cuts the original stats in half while transformed
2- For the "how close many one-bar builds are to two-bar builds" comment: Slightly reduce the original stats by a bit (like back on week 1 PTS or even slightly less), one-bar DPS would never top 2-bar builds with that change.
Please save Oakensoul! I've never been excited that much for a thing to see in-game.
I'm almost tempted to make a petition online and collect signatures to save it
19
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Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm wondering if it might work for me anyway - with 750+ ms ping, I can't bar swap, so all my characters are "one bar trick ponies"....5 -
Kaelthorn_Nightbloom✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »750+ ms ping
That has to be some kind of a record.PC NA1 -
haelgaan✭✭✭✭✭one bar builds are close to two bar builds? that dev needs to re-evaluate their definition of close and who exactly they're trying to protect high DPS parses from.
best case 25% lower is not even remotely close for someone trying to min/max for end game. best case 25% lower, though, could have enabled differently-abled players to participate when otherwise they may be excluded.
there were better ways to address concerns about this. nerfing this to nothing better than existing buffs already at-hand was not the way.
6 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »750+ ms ping
That has to be some kind of a record.
Oh, it used to be worse, always 999+ - really over 2k ms most of the time. That was when I was using WildBlue satellite (garbage, yes). HughesNet is much better but yeah - hard to play this sort of combat etc with that ping.0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »750+ ms ping
That has to be some kind of a record.
Oh, it used to be worse, always 999+ - really over 2k ms most of the time. That was when I was using WildBlue satellite (garbage, yes). HughesNet is much better but yeah - hard to play this sort of combat etc with that ping.
Ever thought about using that new Starlink satellite Internet?CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »750+ ms ping
That has to be some kind of a record.
Oh, it used to be worse, always 999+ - really over 2k ms most of the time. That was when I was using WildBlue satellite (garbage, yes). HughesNet is much better but yeah - hard to play this sort of combat etc with that ping.
Ever thought about using that new Starlink satellite Internet?
Yes. But it's not available in my area yet. It's "pending service" - which probably means a year down the road.0 -
Freelancer_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sylvermynx wrote: »I'm wondering if it might work for me anyway - with 750+ ms ping, I can't bar swap, so all my characters are "one bar trick ponies"....
If you want to give it a spin, you can try it on the PTS server.
I think the demise of the item over all has not happened yet.
However, it's looking like it might not be a very competitive option in top tier content such as say a Veteran Trial or one of the harder Veteran DLC Dungeons and it might be bad in some other rather specific situations.
The changes are the following:
450 Weapon/Spell Damage has been changed to Major Courage.
Major Courage only provides 430 Weapon and Spell Damage.
This is a loss of 20 Weapon/Spell in most situations.
If you are in a group with a player that is using a set that provides you with Major Courage you will not get it as Major buffs do not stack. Only the Spell Power Cure set and Vestment of Olorime provide Major Courage. At the present they are relatively common sets in group play but, that may change in the future.
In that situation it would be a loss of 450 Weapon/Spell compared to the prior version.
1973 Critical Chance rating has been changed to Major Savagery and Prophecy.
Major Savagery and Prophecy provides + 2629 Critical Chance Rating.
This change is a gain of 656 Critical Chance provided you are not using potions, items, or skills to get Major Savagery and Prophecy.
If you are using potions, items, or skills to get Major Savagery and Prophecy this change is a loss of 1973 Critical Chance.
1973 Critical Chance rating has been changed to Major Savagery and Prophecy.
+5280 Armor has been changed to Major Resolve.
Major Resolve provides the equivalent of 5948 Armor
This change is a gain of 328 Armor provided you do not have an armor set or skill providing it to you or a Warden in group that is providing it to you via Frost Cloak
If you have a Warden in your group providing you with Frost Cloak, or are providing it yourself from a skill, or have an armor set that provides it this change is a loss of 5280 Armor
455 Health, Stamina, and Magicka Recovery is replaced with Major Endurance, Fortitude, and Intellect which increase your recovery for all three by 30%
This will generally be a nerf if your recovery stats are low and potentially a buff if they are higher. It will also be a nerf if you already have Major Endurance/Major Fortitude/Major Intellect.
Currently, Major Intellect does not exist in any other form. Major Endurance only exists for DK's with a specific skill and people around the person carrying Volderung in Cyrodiil. Major Fortitude only exists for DK's with a specific skill.
So, the results of the changes vary a bit based on what a person is using.
For a ridiculous example, If I was a DK using Green Dragon Blood and Camouflaged Hunter that was grouped with a Warden that was using Frost Cloak and a Healer that was using the Spell Power Cure Set I would only be getting the 3.7k hp, 3.7k stamina, 3.7k Magicka and Major Intellect from the item as Major buffs do not stack thanks to the changes when before I would have gotten 450 Weapon and Spell Damage, 1973 Critical Chance, 5280 Armor, 455 Health Recovery, 455 Magicka Recovery, 455 Stamina Recovery, 3.7k hp, 3.7k stamina, and 3.7k Magicka.
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Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thanks for the details @chessalavakia_ESO - I don't have the data to download the PTS/keep it updated. It's something to think about anyway!0 -
Freelancer_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Minor mess up in my post, forget to mention you can get the Major Intellect, Major Endurance, and Major Fortitude also from pots which does impact the value of the changes a bit if you use pots.
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Xinihp✭✭✭✭✭Agreed. Looks like the "culture of complaining" strikes again. Anything new and all the Twitch streamers and social media personalities start view-baiting with drama videos until a massive up-welling of their followers complaining causes the devs to knee-jerk sledgehammer-nerf things before they even make it to live.
It is the age-old axiom of "this is why we can't have nice things."
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xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The ring definitely needs to be changed back to something more like what it was and just disabled for anyone that doesn't have a back bar to sacrifice (like a WW). It went from something I was only considering for some builds (not even a sure thing to run) to something I won't even bother collecting now b/c I have zero use for it.
Why would I give up being able to use my backbar not just for the extra ulti and skills, but also the extra gear slots to be able to run 2 5pc sets, a 2 pc undaunted set + a mythic? Granted, not every build works out that way, but many do and this ring doesn't just cost you the back bar skills but also the extra two slots the backbar offers and forces you to give up either the 2pc undaunted bonus or one of the two 5pc bonuses to run.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC6 -
qwjr8989_ESO✭✭✭I was really in-love with oakensoul. Not only is it perfect for how me and my fiance play it alone made my friend come back to the game after a 5 year quit because he hated bar swapping! He has since subbed and is trying to level to cp160 to be able to get this item at release!
I was sad at first about the changes to being buffs but then someone on here mentioned that by changing it to buffs it frees up abilities! One of my favorite parts of this is being able to use just my favorite abilities! Well this leads to just ONE problem with these changes! The resource ones!
Everything else is perfect but the resources one just doesn't make any sense. You get this same buff from potions and you can't physically choose not too! Because even if you wanted to not use the potion for the resource your still missing out on the constant 5-7kish instant restore of resources! Not only that but my friend coming back plays a stam sorc and HATES hurricane cause it changes his character! He's thrill with the armor change! But as a magplar my resource restore is tied to my armor! So I can't get rid of it if the resource on the ring is the same I already have!
I respectfully request a re-consideration on the major intellect etc resource buffs! Even changing them to minor would be a HUGE step up since all of these come from potions anyways!
Thank you for your consideration!3 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭one bar builds are close to two bar builds? that dev needs to re-evaluate their definition of close and who exactly they're trying to protect high DPS parses from.
best case 25% lower is not even remotely close for someone trying to min/max for end game. best case 25% lower, though, could have enabled differently-abled players to participate when otherwise they may be excluded.
there were better ways to address concerns about this. nerfing this to nothing better than existing buffs already at-hand was not the way.
People were parsing 130k+ on PTS with it. That's absolutely close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2MRY3v8E9w 1 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OakenSoul must be nerfed somehow , pre or post game release tho
No doubt , it's chapter gimmick .
Anyway , most of us already pre-ordered the new chapter , ZOS can do whatever they what right now .1 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You can still cancel a preorder.
But if you're preordering the chapter for one single mythic item, that's certainly a whole thing right there.2 -
Bokila✭✭✭At least they nerfed it before release so i don't have to buy the expansion for my gf anymore. She finds bar swapping confusing but definitely not worth paying 40 euros for some buffs that can easly be obtained in other ways.6 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭I actually love this mythic STILL even after the change. The change was very good as far as limiting the min/max builds while leaving it still useful for it's intended purpose. All the major buffs in there are really good for not allowing double dipping into all those stats but people like me who have arthritis and can't mash buttons that fast, or swap bars fast, will get them now.
I know for a fact that a lot of mid level players like me just barely get beat in PVP because we let potion run out and don't notice, can't mash armor buff fast enough and keep it up 100%, bar doesn't swap or I get mixed up and think I'm hitting a heal when I am not (only on my sorc with matriarch I don't have that problem because it's on both bars).
Also I love the fact they the are giving major courage (which people like me who either solo or run in pugs NEVER gets unless I am healing with SPC which I don't always use). Some people say it should give major brutality/sorcery instead but so many skills give that already and things like netch would be redundant. We have to give ZOS credit when credit is due, this set NOW won't be OP min/max, won't be OP WW, won't be better than 2 bar optimized, but WILL give midlevel players a good boost and easier on the fingers.
This is a good alternative to the complete wrecking of all heavy attack sets that just went through. I can say without a doubt as some who rare light attacks, those sets have been totally ruined. This might be good enough to make PVP more fun for a lot of people who have been avoiding it. My only fear is that all the PVP whiners will start whining about this ring when they can't beat everyone instantly any more, just like they whined about proc sets, tankiness, healing, heavy attack, WW, etc. But ZOS better not allow a bunch of people to get used to this new ring then nerf it like thrassian, but they should keep an eye on it so it doesn't get abused by min/maxers.4 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As someone who only plays one-bar I was going to use it, but after the nerf it seems useless to me. I already get the important buffs from the frontbar and gear anyways. This ring seemed to atleast balance one-bar somewhat.
It is stupid they nerfed it because of werewolfs, as werewolf is another skillbar. They should have simply disabled the ring for werewolfs.
Seemed a fun mythic while it lasted. Too bad ZOS took this approach, which makes it yet another useless mythic, like all of them.5 -
w002exp✭✭✭I can't find the point for it. Solo content is too easy to need such a power spike. For overland I'm running Wild Hunt for speed/efficiency. If I'm doing arenas or dungeons solo I'm running Pale Order which is a far better option.
In group content you are effectively losing half the benefit of the ring if not more. You will get way further with a monster set now.
For people who like this change what exactly are you going to wear it for? Because I can't think of a scenario where this is going to clearly out benefit another item.9 -
stevepdodson_ESO888✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is the most disappointing nerf I've seen so far, Oakeesoul was gutted. Heck, I've seen some saying that they'd get back to ESO just to try it out. It was the one thing in the next update my in-game community was excited about. Plus, it would be extra handy for gamers with accessibility (myself included).
Please save Oakensoul! I've never been excited that much for a thing to see in-game.
I'm almost tempted to make a petition online and collect signatures to save it
You get my vote if only for the brilliant new name you came up for this ring... "JokenSoul"
top mark to you for that one2 -
pklemming✭✭✭✭✭
✭These buffs make it mostly useless in group content, and totally useless in trial content. Even for solo play it is barely worth it. Were you intending to make a mythic that is only for solo players?2 -
dinokstrunz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah the ring went from somewhat of a overstated interesting item to a complete and utter joke that's not even worth collecting.2 -
Yarcanine✭✭✭qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »I was really in-love with oakensoul. Not only is it perfect for how me and my fiance play it alone made my friend come back to the game after a 5 year quit because he hated bar swapping! He has since subbed and is trying to level to cp160 to be able to get this item at release!
I was sad at first about the changes to being buffs but then someone on here mentioned that by changing it to buffs it frees up abilities! One of my favorite parts of this is being able to use just my favorite abilities! Well this leads to just ONE problem with these changes! The resource ones!
Everything else is perfect but the resources one just doesn't make any sense. You get this same buff from potions and you can't physically choose not too! Because even if you wanted to not use the potion for the resource your still missing out on the constant 5-7kish instant restore of resources! Not only that but my friend coming back plays a stam sorc and HATES hurricane cause it changes his character! He's thrill with the armor change! But as a magplar my resource restore is tied to my armor! So I can't get rid of it if the resource on the ring is the same I already have!
I respectfully request a re-consideration on the major intellect etc resource buffs! Even changing them to minor would be a HUGE step up since all of these come from potions anyways!
Thank you for your consideration!
Fortitude, Endurance, and Intellect are buffs that can easily be replaced by a tristat potion should be dropped for Brutality, Expedition, and Evasion which are buffs that you would run on your backbar. It makes sense to do this if the purpose of the ring is to replace a backbar.0 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fortitude, Endurance, and Intellect are buffs that can easily be replaced by a tristat potion....
Comments like this remind me that I've never been able to get my head around the MMO-typical thing of just gobbling potions regularly for buffs. Maybe it's just because I grew up with old-style RPG games, but I've always used potions as reactive emergency items. Not as a "drink this every cooldown for sustain/buff/etc" thing. Even with years of MMOing, I just can't get in that mindset.
(probably a good thing that I don't do any content that would expect that, eh?)
Either way, this ring sounds like it'd be useful for me, as a solo/single-bar player who doesn't have 99% of the "usual" buffs active. But I'm not sure how large of an audience that is, to have a mythic item provided for it. Let alone how many of the people who are that laid-back about playstyle, would bother to farm up the ring in the first place. (I know that I haven't farmed up a single mythic yet. I've run across a few parts of some, but when I look up where the others are, I can't be bothered to go get them.)
So, yeah - not sure how useful this item will actually be for the overall playerbase. /shrug7 -
Commandment✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Fortitude, Endurance, and Intellect are buffs that can easily be replaced by a tristat potion....
Comments like this remind me that I've never been able to get my head around the MMO-typical thing of just gobbling potions regularly for buffs. Maybe it's just because I grew up with old-style RPG games, but I've always used potions as reactive emergency items. Not as a "drink this every cooldown for sustain/buff/etc" thing. Even with years of MMOing, I just can't get in that mindset.
(probably a good thing that I don't do any content that would expect that, eh?)
Either way, this ring sounds like it'd be useful for me, as a solo/single-bar player who doesn't have 99% of the "usual" buffs active. But I'm not sure how large of an audience that is, to have a mythic item provided for it. Let alone how many of the people who are that laid-back about playstyle, would bother to farm up the ring in the first place. (I know that I haven't farmed up a single mythic yet. I've run across a few parts of some, but when I look up where the others are, I can't be bothered to go get them.)
So, yeah - not sure how useful this item will actually be for the overall playerbase. /shrug
Well potions in this mmo is only a 45 sec cd, with a 45sec duration buff, easy to come by. I don't see why you wouldnt use em when ever they're available. This isnt wow where you get mediocre buffs for 5 seconds and a 5min cd that only resets after combat XD1 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭this stinks...
all these nerfs like this come along because maybe 10% of the player base will "cheese it"...
that same 10% will cheese most new or OP items added to the game...
meanwhile the other 90% of us lose out on some fun new gear in the game...
this ain't right...Edited by geonsocal on 4 May 2022 17:31PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place6 -
SainguinKrist✭✭✭✭✭I really don't get the big deal here.
That ring was obviously, undeniably, way OP for a single item.
It sounds mostly like a lot of you are upset you can't have a completely busted build with one item.
I think that sounds fair.I have characters that have classes.
I'm not sure what their names are.
Leader of Casual Filth, a proudly LGBT+ led and friendly social guild.5 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I was a strong proponent of nerfing Oakensoul if only to prevent every PVP campaign becoming Hircine's Hunting Grounds. My initial reaction to the nerf was "oh, that seems ok" but the increasing discussion has somewhat brought me around.
I do think that if they want to go this route the ring does either need to grant more Major buffs - particularly some ones from less common sources, or to also grant the paired Minor buffs.
That said, my counterargument is this:
The ring's purpose is designed to remove reliance on skills that you don't have room for. Sure, I might have room to slot Hurricane to get Major Resolve, but then where am I going to put inner light or if I can fit Inner Light, where am I going to put Crit Surge, or if I fit Crit Surge, where am I going to put Barbed Trap? I'm now definitely dipping into my actual damage abilities in my limited bar space.
If I get Major Sorcerey and Prophecy from the ring I don't have to worry about that. I've saved two bar slots.
So you say well, with Spell Power Potions you don't need Inner Light or Crit Surge. Ok then, now the ring is giving me Major Endurance, and Major Fortitude not bad buffs in their own right, and Major Endurance is definitely going to help with hybrid sustain.
So, I do think the argument about "oh, just slot these skills to get the buffs" falls a little flat - removing the need to slot skills when barspace is limited was the point of the set. You don't have room for those skills on a one-bar build. But this was too hard a nerf as you can generally expect to get most of them already wasting too much of what the ring would be doing.Edited by acastanza_ESO on 4 May 2022 17:411 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭You must put attack, escape and heal into 5 slots. You will become a weaker version of the werewolf. Is it worth it?? Dog gives more buffs and more balanced abilities than Class . Werewolves are pretty weak. And with a ring, you'll be worse than a werewolf. And a lot. Much, much worse than a werewolf.Edited by Melzo on 4 May 2022 18:060
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Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭You can have an OP Mythic item that is nerfed 6 months into the new expansion for balance because everyone and their brother have switched to one bar builds because of this item. I'm currently recounting the Pale Order + Vampire gameplay that was nerfed almost immediately after being the flagship of the expansion.
-OR-
You can have a useful and competitive Mythic item that facilitates alternative styles of play without fundamentally changing how the game is played due to the meta.
Alcast is still getting almost 100k with this ring after testing the nerfed version, which is well above what anyone would have ever been able to manage with a regular one-bar build. Regardless of what you feel, for the health of the game, 1 bar builds should not be out performing 2 bar builds. But it's still a really, really good alternative if you enjoy 1 bar or even Werewolf gameplay. If you're upset because 1 bar builds won't be the new meta, you've got the wrong attitude.Edited by Kahnak on 4 May 2022 18:18Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"3
This discussion has been closed.