Really struggling with PVP

DigiAngel · April 2022

Wow....where do I start. First off...I have 2 characters...healer and another tank-ish. In group is "ok", but solo is terrible. I try and sit in the alliance locked and standard. Several points/questions leap to mind:

Unless you have the fastest horse, getting ANYWHERE takes an eternity
Usually by the time I make it to your destination, the battle is over
Why is there disparate earnings in IC compared to Cyro?

Last night I played solo with the tank. A couple of the same alliance were with me as well, as were some opposing. We must have chased them in circles in the same area for at least 10 minutes...if not more, no kills at all. Eventually I just gave up and went somewhere else. But all the while people jumping around like Kangaroos. I checked my assault/support skill ( the reason I'm doing this ) to see if I'd earned any experience. Nope. Is this REALLY what Cyro PVP looks like?

On the off chance I make it to a remote keep and the battle is still going, I swear.....so many times ganked out of the blue by some cloaker, stunned, dead. Now...I get to go all the back and spend the 8 minutes riding ( and my tank horse IS maxed out on speed + cp slotted ) back. Is THIS fun? Riding around all for a moments combat? I'm not even talking about builds...so the "change your build/get gud blah blah blah" crowd just stand by.

I get being out numbered. Makes sense if I waltz into an area and bam a mob or even 3 will be a challange...no issue there.

And then...oh boy...let's talk about leads in IC shall we? Who thought this was a good idea? Really? Took ages to finally kill the WB and NOT get killed by some other alliance person in the midst of battle (real sporting that...kill the dude fighting the WB). Is THIS fun? No. And before we say "gee get in a group or with your guild" I'll say this: EVERY time I go in to either IC or Cyro I ask for group...EVERY TIME because it stinks to go in solo. How do you expect some poor PVE only sod to get this done? Honestly...it's ludicrous. I get why you wouldn't earn Alliance skills because that's not what IC is about, but it COMPLETELY RUINS the idea of going to a smaller area so the bulk of your time isn't spent riding around when you're in Cyro

So...let's talk about the tankish build...I get the healer isn't made for combat, and really for group only, so fair enough. Wearing Gaze of Sithis as well as Hrothgar's Chill and Jailbreaker. I use Shield Charge for an initial hit, and I can honestly say I've never seen Hrothgar proc. Ever. I see that Shield Charge animation as having the opponent lie on the ground after hit, but they usually break free almost immediately, whereas I am hit with...not sure which stun it is, but it's like rock jutting around you, and I have been unable to break free of that. Lot's of dying. Is this fun?

I find that I was in this cycle for a while with PVE.....research a build...get the gear...purple almost all of it, gold the weapons, only to play it and find only a marginal difference at best. My first instinct is to do the same, but not this time. This time I'm appealing to you folks. WHAT THE HECK WORKS. I'm a DK, with lot's of skills unlocked...so I'm open to try a lot. I'm not asking to be the tankiest thing on the planet....I'm not asking to one shot demi-gods...I JUST WANNA SURVIVE THE FREAKING ENVIRONMENT AND NOT TAKE A YEAR TO KILL AN OPPONENT.

So there you go. Ultimate goal: level up the skills...and have fun on the way! Ok..lemme have it...whatcha got

WordsOfPower · April 2022

I sympathise and feel I can help with most of your concerns. If you are on PC-EU feel free to hit me up @WordsOfPower

DigiAngel · April 2022

Sadly I am on PC-NA....also sorry for the mess you folks are having to deal with

Necrotech_Master · April 2022

a few tips about that

your first experience listed in cyro chasing a group around, that is a well organized ball group and frankly they are not worth the AP, you might get an OK tick for when they finally died, but you could make a lot more in a faster fight elsewhere

you get AP for actual kills (amount varies based on how long person has been alive), capping resources and keeps, defending resources and keeps, for doing repairs on keeps, and lastly for doing town dailies

in terms of low pvp, repairing or town dailies are lowest effort, but also dont give a huge amount (but would be enough to rank up alliance skill lines)

im not really a huge fan of trying to go to certain keeps either, but i usually dont even use a mount in cyro (partially because i sometimes get stuck in combat and partially because ive been ganked too many times while on my mount and getting knocked off your horse is almost always death) and it definitely doesnt always take 8 min to go between keeps, this is going to really vary as the distance between nikel and roe is a lot closer than bleakers to dragonclaw

IC is a bit of a different beast, on a brawler style build i can usually kill the surface bosses in under 5 min assuming no gankers, its a lot easier killing bosses in the sewers where you dont have to worry about gankers quite as often (there are some leads you can get from sewer bosses too and they are much easier to kill than surface ones)

another hint is that hrothgar is absolutely horrible right now, it was seriously overnerfed and even if it did go off you likely wouldnt even notice it because its so weak

a lot of pvp players use the slippery cp which is auto break free every like 20 seconds or so, and trying to fight a dragonknight is going to be pretty tough unless your already running a full on pvp build, the skill they are hitting you with constantly is petrify, which both stuns and immobilizes you

if you wanted to try to do a pvp build, huge burst dmg is how you win along with cc to hurt their sustain, but you also need a semi tanky build along with lots of healing over time

im certainly not what would be considered an expert in pvp, but ive spent enough time in different pvp areas to kind of see what works, and what you mentioned from your build it certainly could use a change

gaze of sithis is OK, but generally only in the no-cp/no proc campaigns
hrothgar is just not good for pvp anymore, it was seriously overnerfed to the point of being not useful, especially against anyone not running a lot of armor
jailbreaker is more useful as a mat farmer set for the passive +speed but doesnt do anything for you either offense or defense

hopefully this helps a little, im not really what would be an expert in terms of putting together a "good" pvp build

Kartalin · April 2022

Have you considered the no proc campaigns? There is a bit of a tank meta in no proc but the instant deaths occur a lot less frequently with the limitations on sets.

Stam dk or mag dk? And which faction?

Lebkuchen · April 2022

There is no easy way. But there are some things that can help you:

Join a beginner friendly pvp guild (you can search in zonechat or guildfinder...) and make friends. Join groups and let them tell/show you the most important things you need to know. Some players will be happy to help you with your questions. Some players will make fun of you and insult you for no reason... ignore them if you can, or just block their accounts. It will save you a lot of time and trouble. Do not fight in zonechat, you will regret it.

Read guides about cyrodiil (different siege weapons, goals, scrolls, buffs, keeps and resources levels...), read/watch guides about pvp (sets, abilities, cooldowns, block, dodgeroll, immunities...), watch pvp streams and gameplay videos.

Find out what you want to do in cyrodiil. There are lots of differents playstyles. Solo, small group, big group. Do you just want to fight or do you want to play the campaign too?

To get a good feeling about your char, ask friends to fight you 1vs1. So you can talk about your fights and find out what you need to change. Practice your combos. In PvP it is not about making a lot of damage and hope the enemy will die, it is about making a lot of damage in a short window, when your enemy is vulnerable. Same for staying alive. Learn to read situations. When do you need to block, dodgeroll, fight or just run as fast as you can.

Or you can just play and try to have fun :-)

DigiAngel · April 2022

REALLY appreciate the comments and feedback all..thank you.

divnyi · April 2022

DigiAngel wrote: »

We must have chased them in circles in the same area for at least 10 minutes...if not more, no kills at all. Eventually I just gave up and went somewhere else. But all the while people jumping around like Kangaroos. I checked my assault/support skill ( the reason I'm doing this ) to see if I'd earned any experience. Nope. Is this REALLY what Cyro PVP looks like?

Yes.

DigiAngel wrote: »

so many times ganked out of the blue by some cloaker, stunned, dead. Now...I get to go all the back and spend the 8 minutes riding ( and my tank horse IS maxed out on speed + cp slotted ) back. Is THIS fun?

Wait was it supposed to be fun?

dogshaman · April 2022

Hey Digiangel, a couple of tips that might help in earning ap experience for the assault/support skills faster:

In Cyro, you can earn ap by repairing keep walls and doors (and you get extra ap depending on your healing done %, so sets with healing done earn alittle bit more when repairing).
You can buy the wall and door repair kits at your home base and in the keeps at the siege merchants for 90 gp each.

If your keep is being sieged and you're on the walls, I found the best tool to use against attackers is the meatbag siege and flaming oils.
Try to concentrate your meatbag attacks on the enemies siege engines first.
When you are attacking a keep, stone trebuchets does more damage than fire trebuchets, while cold stone trebuchets do the most.

Fire ballistas fire quicker and is better for attacking people, but the enemies move so fast that by the time it goes off, they are out of range.
Now, if you can get one, fire lancers are the most fun to use when attacking groups of people, but you can only get one by finding an antiquity lead in the rewards of the worthy coffers.

As for traveling in Cyro, if you have enough cp skill points, you can take Steeds Blessing and Gifted Rider under the Green tree and Celerity under the Fitness tree to speed up your travel time.

Hope this helps.

YoureWrongImRight · April 2022

DigiAngel wrote: »

Wow....where do I start. First off...I have 2 characters...healer and another tank-ish.

Literally don't need to read anything else. this entire game is hybrid DPS. You chose to play the wrong way bro.

DigiAngel · April 2022

Thank you for the helpful advice all!

Larcomar · April 2022

Can see why you were trying to do that but a few thoughts

- Don't go in unless a couple of factions are pop locked. Three bar or below tends to be pretty dead now. I think they lowered the cap, but it'll just be some tower farmers hanging around hoping to get lucky and some idiots chasing them. Round and round and round.

- Unless you're in a group (or there's a massive zerg) don't go running half way across the map to a "fight." Stay around your keeps and defend. There will usually be scrapson the front lines - Alessia-Sej-BRK, Chal-BLK-Alews, Roe-Nic-Ash. Use the transitus network to flick back and forth to where fights are. Crossed swords on the map. You never have to ride anywhere.

- Bonus points for flicking back and forth between a keep and an outpost, with the odd resource capture thrown in. You can be on the defence tick list for 1 keep, 1 outpost and 1 resource at any one time. Always repair a wall / door when you get there to make sure you get the tick.

- If you come across a bunch of people bunny hopping round a fort taking 0 damage and then turning and deleting people, they're prob wearing tank set ups and balorgh. They're just trying to draw you out and build ulti. Don't chase them. Even better just ignore them. They'll usually bunny hop off somewhere else after a while.

- In particular, if you rock up at a resource, and the enemy "hero" immediately runs into the tower, seriously, just ignore him. They're called tower farmers for a reason. That's there only trick. Just take the resource and if he takes it back, wait 5 minutes, then rinse and repeat.

- Hrothgar's horrible and Jailbreaker is a ... non conventional choice for pvp. I'd run one defensive set and one offensive set, enough sustain so you don't run out and maybe a little bit of speed on top. There's all sort of OP / meta / super dooper stuff the pro's can tell you about but, honestly, slap on some pariah and something that gives you some wep/spell dmg and you're good to go.

edit - PS. "I checked my assault/support skill ( the reason I'm doing this ) to see if I'd earned any experience." If you're just looking to farm AP, learn to leech like a pro. Buy some cyrodiil war torte, ignore enemy players (its pretty crap AP) and just go for every capture / defense tick you can. For extra bonus points, kill a delve boss every hour.

Kaysha · April 2022

YoureWrongImRight wrote: »

DigiAngel wrote: »

Wow....where do I start. First off...I have 2 characters...healer and another tank-ish.

Literally don't need to read anything else. this entire game is hybrid DPS. You chose to play the wrong way bro.

This probably a very helpfull hint. Other than in PvE you normally need to be a healing dps tank in PvP.
Play in NO-CP, No-proc, aim for around 30k resistance, 25-30 health, 1800-2100 regen in your main stat and have 3 swift traits.
And try to get your damage stat above 5k with resist pierce at least at 10k. Heartland Conqueror is great for that. Pair it with your gaze and add something that gives you as much damage as possible.

Your horse needs to have max speed and enough endurance to always sprint.

After that you have to learn to read the map and know where to go before the fights happen.

noobfury · April 2022

..I JUST WANNA SURVIVE THE FREAKING ENVIRONMENT AND NOT TAKE A YEAR TO KILL AN OPPONENT.

Make sure to put points in to continuous attack when you get to that level = Gain Major Gallop at all times, increasing your Mount Speed by 30%.

Focus on completely different gear. The sets your using are useless for the most part. Invest in some proc healing with damage sets.

Build for defense. Dk's have the advantage of being able to build tanky and have high damage.

Whip - Claw or Embers - Noxious or Engulfing for damage. I like Eruption as well since they changed it recently because I can literally spam it as much as I want and my magicka bar never moves.

The heal on embers was improved as well, something to consider.

Always , always use Corrosive Armor on at least one bar . I like to use leap on the other based on the low cost. I can gain a lot of resources quickly in a pinch.

Hopefully you have all of your passives maxed as well. Including 1H and Shield

Don't feel bad. If a NB comes out of cloak with the right build they can kill almost anyone but it's not so easy for them as it used to be. I run close to 40k health with max resists and can still be ganked from time to time.

UntouchableHunter · April 2022

I'm from PC/NA you can add me as a friend if you want. I can run with you in Cyrodill and IC. But you have to understand the pvp learning curve in ESO is really high. But we can go step by step if you want.

malistorr · April 2022

I agree with some of the advice already given. Here is a list of things that are important IMO:

1. Start in no CP/Proc Ravenwatch campaign. It will remove gimmick/proc sets and make things a bit more of a level playing field. To succeed here you really need skill.
2. Class is really important. For example nightblade (magic or stam) sux right now unless you have tons of experience and are an elite player with this class. If you were to play magplar instead it's like turning on easy mode in a lot of ways. Not only is it a much easier class to play but the execute skill is the best and the class healing is best or close to it. So choose your class carefully.
3. Then decide on how you want your build to be. Do you want 1 defensive set so you'll survive in fights longer? Ok, but it will be more difficult to kill people.
4. Many people these days are going to vampire level 3 for really large damage mitigation when you are low health. This helps you stay alive really well. I used that with Gaze in no CP once and also the Pariah set for my defense. I was much more tanky but it was difficult to kill people because my burst damage capability was low. I had several long fights 1v1 with similar build enemies that ended up in draws as 1 of us would get bored and leave. Or you could go 2 damage sets. You'll need speed even more if you do this as you'll be pretty squishy, even if you use s defensive mythic like Gaze.
5. Agree with others that speed is great to have no matter what. Either use Ring of the Wild Hunt or have at least 2 jewelry with the Swift trait.
6. Agree to have 2k recovery for primary stat (mag or stam)
7. Gold everything out. I play a lot so have many sets of gold gear and so does everyone else. If you're not doing that you're already at a disadvantage.
8. Make sure to optimize your traits on armor etc. Want defense, go Nirnhoned on most with reinforced chest and decide if you want 1 or 2 impen also. Want to go for more speed and dodgerolls use mostly well-fitted. Already have Gaze and Pariah and want more offense? Use divines with an offensive mundus like the lover.
9. Use the 2nd best food or drink available. An example is that Artaeum Takeaway Broth is really expensive so use the "almost as good" Lava Foot Soup & Saltrice instead for a stam toon. Same with mag food or drink (don't use the very expensive best option). The most expensive stuff is probably not worth it.

That's enough for now but the suggestion to join a guild/group to learn more from others who are more experienced is a good idea.

L_Nici · April 2022

The Answer to 3 is simple. At some point ZOS did divide IC and Cyro to increase performance. Before that AP gained in IC counted towards the Cyro leaderboard, if you entered via your homecampaign.

NordSwordnBoard · April 2022

I'd suggest dueling with a friend well versed in PvP. Practice breaking free, dodge, and positioning. They should let you know when your buffs fall off, when you are vulnerable etc. Constructive feedback in the moment will help a lot. No horsing around required

WaywardArgonian · April 2022

In addition to some of the good tips already given in this thread, here's some things I learned over several years of PVP:

- If you're in it for the AP/skill lines, invest some time in learning the natural cadence of your campaign and faction. Things like faction balance tend to follow a predictable pattern during a campaign. For example, sometimes there will be a morning cap, where your faction sweeps across the entire map every morning and takes every keep and outpost pretty much uncontested because the other factions are underpopulated. It doesn't make for exciting PVP, but if you want a daily flow of pretty much free AP, it's an option to just join those caps. It'll pretty much eliminate the problem you mention of riding somewhere solo and arriving when the battle ends. When I pushed for max alliance rank on my main, I logged on when my alliance (AD) had low population bonus and a big DC zerg capped the map, and I'd just play bomber for some great AP.

- Which leads me to my next point: tanking is not so great for AP unless you play it in a group. If you're solo, you can get a lot of extra AP from killing other players or contributing towards their kills. Even healing AP is supposed to be decent these days. But as a tank, you will miss out on this 'bonus AP' even though you'll obviously still get AP from keep and resource captures. I know you did not want to talk about builds, but builds in Cyrodiil typically blur the lines of the DD/Heal/Tank roles a bit in that most of them can do at least a little bit of each.

- One important lesson in Cyrodiil, especially when you're playing solo, is to learn to fight on your own terms. What I mean by this is that when you see a ballgroup or smallscale dancing around a rock or resource tower, they are trying to get you to play 'their' game by luring you into a battle you'd be hard-pressed to win. Especially if you're new, odds are that they're going to be a lot better at their game than you are. So when you see a group like that, it's best to ignore them and move on. Even when they're zerged down and wiped eventually, the AP reward won't be that great anyway. Again, when I was pushing for max rank on my bomber and I saw a keep getting attacked by a well-organized ballgroup, I would straight up just leave and try to find another fight, as I knew that as a solo player I'd just be wasting my time there and make little to no AP.

- To your point about not being able to break out of stun: yes, this is a common issue sadly. Especially Dragonknight CC is bugged to the point where I'll easily get stuck for 4-5 seconds before I'm able to break free/roll dodge out of it. It gets worse if I'm fighting more than 1 DK. For as far as I know, there's little that can be done about it.

Hoarcrux · April 2022

Hey man I feel ya and the issues you are going through we have talked about at length here on the channel and the discord. Feel free to join my discord! We have allot of friendly folk who just want to help and make ESO Great Again: Below is my discord if you have questions
https://discord.gg/a4PCgF6T

DigiAngel · April 2022

Thanks for the feedback all!

Fazuszek · April 2022

malistorr wrote: »

I agree with some of the advice already given. Here is a list of things that are important IMO:

1. Start in no CP/Proc Ravenwatch campaign. It will remove gimmick/proc sets and make things a bit more of a level playing field. To succeed here you really need skill.
2. Class is really important. For example nightblade (magic or stam) sux right now unless you have tons of experience and are an elite player with this class. If you were to play magplar instead it's like turning on easy mode in a lot of ways. Not only
That's enough for now but the suggestion to join a guild/group to learn more from others who are more experienced is a good idea.

NB sucks? [snip], good joke - every top pvp players, rates this class in S category, for solo PVP.

[edited for profanity bypass]

FirmamentOfStars · April 2022

Fazuszek wrote: »

malistorr wrote: »

I agree with some of the advice already given. Here is a list of things that are important IMO:

1. Start in no CP/Proc Ravenwatch campaign. It will remove gimmick/proc sets and make things a bit more of a level playing field. To succeed here you really need skill.
2. Class is really important. For example nightblade (magic or stam) sux right now unless you have tons of experience and are an elite player with this class. If you were to play magplar instead it's like turning on easy mode in a lot of ways. Not only
That's enough for now but the suggestion to join a guild/group to learn more from others who are more experienced is a good idea.

NB sucks? [snip], good joke - every top pvp players, rates this class in S category, for solo PVP.

He is not really wrong though. Nightblade surely is deadly with like caluurion and vate 2h proc, which almost one shots. But only good players can actually play this class on a that level, every other nb i see is cannon fodder. Previous poster said exactly that: unless you are good at the game, nb sucks, which is totally true. Maybe some of your top pvp players rank it S tier for solo, but in the end the class is just not comparable to magdk for example. Even magcro and magplar, which are like the next best classes after magdk, are better in most situations than nb. And especially for newer and struggling players those classes perform much better than nightblade, which requires actual experience to not lay dead all the time.

[edited to remove quote]

geonsocal · April 2022

DigiAngel wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback all!

howdy digi angel

lots of really great advice...

probably the key towards "enjoying" the pvp experience is to adjust your expectations, which, after some time in both cyrodiil and IC sounds like you have...

DigiAngel · April 2022

Ironically I settled on that recent Double Bow build here in the forums. Survived well and had a ball....even solo

Amerises · April 2022

If you're just looking for AP and skill line, just do a daily battleground. 10 to 15k AP, purple armor, transmute crystals, and a decent amount of exp for skill line.

Battlegrounds are kiddie Cyro, Cyro-lite. It will teach you everything you need to do, keep it action packed, and give you lots of in-game experience.

Tips:
1) Stay buffed at all times. If you drop major resolve or a HoT, that's a recipe for gank.
2) Set up the fight to your advantage. If you get charged, stay on the defense until they use up there combo, then go on the offensive. Don't let them dictate the fight.
3) Research a couple builds, Google and YouTube are great for that, and take what you like and leave what you don't. These people do know what they're talking about though, so don't just take advice with a grain of salt.
4) DK is going to be your bread and butter. Just side my daily battleground and a DK went 42 and 0. FORTY TWO kills and ZERO deaths. You have the best class to learn on.