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So I decided to swap to Pack Leader for a bit to compare it to Serker...
Jusey1
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ZOS, you basically made Pack Leader really bad unless you are soloing or tanking and even then... Berserker is just better for soloing and tanking is better to do without werewolf form at all. I remember it being good many years ago but whenever they nerfed it, they nerfed the morph to Oblivion in my honest opinion... The only good use for it is the two passives but they are very counter-productive to one another and themselves.
10% Damage Reduction is really nice if you're soloing or tanking, but you can't tank properly without an effective taunt (which you can only get in werewolf form with a specific item set), and the Minor buff is really good since it is group wide, but again, since the other buff is better in solo play, this one won't get full usage and on top of that, you have to pray that any other werewolf players in your group isn't also running this morph since they won't stack... So, at best, you can run a werewolf tank with this morph by using it with Torty to get your taunt and you're buffing your group's damage/healing overall but that is so specific and you would do a better overall job doing similar things with other sets and just not being in werewolf form.. Kudos to people getting this to work effectively enough.
However, the biggest issue are the two direwolves... Holy [snip], ZOS. Just remove them. That would be a buff to this morph. They are so useless to a point where they hurt the user more so than help. They barely don't do any damage, cannot grab aggro of anything, and get in the way a lot. Certain abilities I do think can still target them too, so you accidentally apply a heal or buff to them when you meant to do it to another player (I swear I saw Mirri's restoration ability lock onto a direwolf and herself a few times when I was trying out this morph)...
So, yeah. Remove the direwolves to buff the morph at least if you don't want to do anything else ZOS... Also, yes. I do think they are that bad. I can see them attacking a trash mob and I would kill the dungeon's boss then look back at them... They are still trying to kill that same trash mob. It's that bad... Just argh... They are so useless.
[edited for profanity bypass]
Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 March 2022 19:08 10% Damage Reduction is really nice if you're soloing or tanking, but you can't tank properly without an effective taunt (which you can only get in werewolf form with a specific item set), and the Minor buff is really good since it is group wide, but again, since the other buff is better in solo play, this one won't get full usage and on top of that, you have to pray that any other werewolf players in your group isn't also running this morph since they won't stack... So, at best, you can run a werewolf tank with this morph by using it with Torty to get your taunt and you're buffing your group's damage/healing overall but that is so specific and you would do a better overall job doing similar things with other sets and just not being in werewolf form.. Kudos to people getting this to work effectively enough.
However, the biggest issue are the two direwolves... Holy [snip], ZOS. Just remove them. That would be a buff to this morph. They are so useless to a point where they hurt the user more so than help. They barely don't do any damage, cannot grab aggro of anything, and get in the way a lot. Certain abilities I do think can still target them too, so you accidentally apply a heal or buff to them when you meant to do it to another player (I swear I saw Mirri's restoration ability lock onto a direwolf and herself a few times when I was trying out this morph)...
So, yeah. Remove the direwolves to buff the morph at least if you don't want to do anything else ZOS... Also, yes. I do think they are that bad. I can see them attacking a trash mob and I would kill the dungeon's boss then look back at them... They are still trying to kill that same trash mob. It's that bad... Just argh... They are so useless.
[edited for profanity bypass]
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Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the direwolves were changed a long time ago to not be targetable, so it is impossible for them to grab aggro now (or be healed as they cannot be targeted by anything and if they are for some reason, definitely a bug), but them not dying actually makes it better for boss fights with a lot of aoe (and without the direwolves entirely, that would be 100% straight up nerf as they do contribute dmg and snares (especially snares for pvp ))
i also personally really like the minor dmg buff
i didnt feel like the berserker form did enough dmg to justify its penalties, because i think the berserker also as part of the morph takes extra dmg from everything on top of the extra 25% poison dmg all WW transforms take
if anything i would rather zos just leave WW alone, for fear it might suffer the fate of vampirism lolplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities1 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just wish that ZOS would stop listening to the anti-pet stigma and let wolves (and class pets) be useful again. Let them be targetable as well since it would be a decent reason to even use pack leader. If they die quick, they just respawn.That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.0 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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Targetable pets and pet AI have/cause a lot of problems in PvP.Just wish that ZOS would stop listening to the anti-pet stigma and let wolves (and class pets) be useful again. Let them be targetable as well since it would be a decent reason to even use pack leader. If they die quick, they just respawn.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP metas1 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Targetable pets and pet AI have/cause a lot of problems in PvP.Just wish that ZOS would stop listening to the anti-pet stigma and let wolves (and class pets) be useful again. Let them be targetable as well since it would be a decent reason to even use pack leader. If they die quick, they just respawn.
Until players learn about selecting targets with the appropriate keybinds.
As for the Packleader morph I personally think it's the better one because the wolves do damage and they contribute to the werewolf passive allowing you to stay in the form longer. Very helpful if you don't want to be incredibly pressed for time like you are in Berserker.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Jusey1✭✭✭✭✭and they contribute to the werewolf passive allowing you to stay in the form longer. Very helpful if you don't want to be incredibly pressed for time like you are in Berserker.
Their damage is pathetic, but I didn't knew about them contributing to that werewolf passive... If you are going for damage, you go for Berserker. Pack Leader seems to be better for passives, and that's it.0 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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Tab target. Crosshairs on target. Dragon leap flies sideways at an Engine Guardian proc anyway. You're gonna have to share your secret to never hitting a pet. Maybe all those pet sorcs in BGs are just a coincidence and totally not abusing random pet LoS blocking in tight spaces against small groups.Until players learn about selecting targets with the appropriate keybindsPC/NA || Cyro/BGs || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP metas0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Tab target. Crosshairs on target. Dragon leap flies sideways at an Engine Guardian proc anyway. You're gonna have to share your secret to never hitting a pet. Maybe all those pet sorcs in BGs are just a coincidence and totally not abusing random pet LoS blocking in tight spaces against small groups.Until players learn about selecting targets with the appropriate keybinds
It's not really a secret, but I do tend to aim slightly ahead of targets as it is a kind of instinctual thing I have from all the FPS games I've played in the past. I grew up on Quake 3 Arena and you even had to lead the railgun a bit because of the miniscule delay there was from trigger pull to the hit-scan slug being fired.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Tab target. Crosshairs on target. Dragon leap flies sideways at an Engine Guardian proc anyway. You're gonna have to share your secret to never hitting a pet. Maybe all those pet sorcs in BGs are just a coincidence and totally not abusing random pet LoS blocking in tight spaces against small groups.Until players learn about selecting targets with the appropriate keybinds
It's not really a secret, but I do tend to aim slightly ahead of targets as it is a kind of instinctual thing I have from all the FPS games I've played in the past. I grew up on Quake 3 Arena and you even had to lead the railgun a bit because of the miniscule delay there was from trigger pull to the hit-scan slug being fired.
Respect. Q3 player too lol.
Idk. When I tab target then I dont hit pets unless they're a speed build and fly out from under my crosshair.
Still hate engine guardian regardless. Gives too much resource and blocks sometimes. Why is this even targetable again?Edited by Ryuvain on 9 March 2022 02:10That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.0 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Tab target. Crosshairs on target. Dragon leap flies sideways at an Engine Guardian proc anyway. You're gonna have to share your secret to never hitting a pet. Maybe all those pet sorcs in BGs are just a coincidence and totally not abusing random pet LoS blocking in tight spaces against small groups.Until players learn about selecting targets with the appropriate keybinds
It's not really a secret, but I do tend to aim slightly ahead of targets as it is a kind of instinctual thing I have from all the FPS games I've played in the past. I grew up on Quake 3 Arena and you even had to lead the railgun a bit because of the miniscule delay there was from trigger pull to the hit-scan slug being fired.
Respect. Q3 player too lol.
Idk. When I tab target then I dont hit pets unless they're a speed build and fly out from under my crosshair.
Still hate engine guardian regardless. Gives too much resource and blocks sometimes. Why is this even targetable again?
the engine guardian pet can be interrupted, which stops it from giving resources to the "owner", if it wasnt targetable you wouldnt even have a chance to do this and they would be getting resources back for freeplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Tab target. Crosshairs on target. Dragon leap flies sideways at an Engine Guardian proc anyway. You're gonna have to share your secret to never hitting a pet. Maybe all those pet sorcs in BGs are just a coincidence and totally not abusing random pet LoS blocking in tight spaces against small groups.Until players learn about selecting targets with the appropriate keybinds
It's not really a secret, but I do tend to aim slightly ahead of targets as it is a kind of instinctual thing I have from all the FPS games I've played in the past. I grew up on Quake 3 Arena and you even had to lead the railgun a bit because of the miniscule delay there was from trigger pull to the hit-scan slug being fired.
Respect. Q3 player too lol.
Idk. When I tab target then I dont hit pets unless they're a speed build and fly out from under my crosshair.
Still hate engine guardian regardless. Gives too much resource and blocks sometimes. Why is this even targetable again?
You can stun the pets that are targetable, even the Sorcerer's Storm Atronach ultimate. The longer lasting the stun the better when it comes to messing them up.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Tab target. Crosshairs on target. Dragon leap flies sideways at an Engine Guardian proc anyway. You're gonna have to share your secret to never hitting a pet. Maybe all those pet sorcs in BGs are just a coincidence and totally not abusing random pet LoS blocking in tight spaces against small groups.Until players learn about selecting targets with the appropriate keybinds
It's not really a secret, but I do tend to aim slightly ahead of targets as it is a kind of instinctual thing I have from all the FPS games I've played in the past. I grew up on Quake 3 Arena and you even had to lead the railgun a bit because of the miniscule delay there was from trigger pull to the hit-scan slug being fired.
Respect. Q3 player too lol.
Idk. When I tab target then I dont hit pets unless they're a speed build and fly out from under my crosshair.
Still hate engine guardian regardless. Gives too much resource and blocks sometimes. Why is this even targetable again?
You can stun the pets that are targetable, even the Sorcerer's Storm Atronach ultimate. The longer lasting the stun the better when it comes to messing them up.Necrotech_Master wrote: »xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Tab target. Crosshairs on target. Dragon leap flies sideways at an Engine Guardian proc anyway. You're gonna have to share your secret to never hitting a pet. Maybe all those pet sorcs in BGs are just a coincidence and totally not abusing random pet LoS blocking in tight spaces against small groups.Until players learn about selecting targets with the appropriate keybinds
It's not really a secret, but I do tend to aim slightly ahead of targets as it is a kind of instinctual thing I have from all the FPS games I've played in the past. I grew up on Quake 3 Arena and you even had to lead the railgun a bit because of the miniscule delay there was from trigger pull to the hit-scan slug being fired.
Respect. Q3 player too lol.
Idk. When I tab target then I dont hit pets unless they're a speed build and fly out from under my crosshair.
Still hate engine guardian regardless. Gives too much resource and blocks sometimes. Why is this even targetable again?
the engine guardian pet can be interrupted, which stops it from giving resources to the "owner", if it wasnt targetable you wouldnt even have a chance to do this and they would be getting resources back for free
I guess stunning is better than bashing. Still feels like it's up too much. You stun/bash it and it comes up again a bit later. Also wasting a stun on it every time could end up draining your own resource. Seems like a lose-lose scenario.That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Tab target. Crosshairs on target. Dragon leap flies sideways at an Engine Guardian proc anyway. You're gonna have to share your secret to never hitting a pet. Maybe all those pet sorcs in BGs are just a coincidence and totally not abusing random pet LoS blocking in tight spaces against small groups.Until players learn about selecting targets with the appropriate keybinds
It's not really a secret, but I do tend to aim slightly ahead of targets as it is a kind of instinctual thing I have from all the FPS games I've played in the past. I grew up on Quake 3 Arena and you even had to lead the railgun a bit because of the miniscule delay there was from trigger pull to the hit-scan slug being fired.
Respect. Q3 player too lol.
Idk. When I tab target then I dont hit pets unless they're a speed build and fly out from under my crosshair.
Still hate engine guardian regardless. Gives too much resource and blocks sometimes. Why is this even targetable again?
You can stun the pets that are targetable, even the Sorcerer's Storm Atronach ultimate. The longer lasting the stun the better when it comes to messing them up.Necrotech_Master wrote: »xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Tab target. Crosshairs on target. Dragon leap flies sideways at an Engine Guardian proc anyway. You're gonna have to share your secret to never hitting a pet. Maybe all those pet sorcs in BGs are just a coincidence and totally not abusing random pet LoS blocking in tight spaces against small groups.Until players learn about selecting targets with the appropriate keybinds
It's not really a secret, but I do tend to aim slightly ahead of targets as it is a kind of instinctual thing I have from all the FPS games I've played in the past. I grew up on Quake 3 Arena and you even had to lead the railgun a bit because of the miniscule delay there was from trigger pull to the hit-scan slug being fired.
Respect. Q3 player too lol.
Idk. When I tab target then I dont hit pets unless they're a speed build and fly out from under my crosshair.
Still hate engine guardian regardless. Gives too much resource and blocks sometimes. Why is this even targetable again?
the engine guardian pet can be interrupted, which stops it from giving resources to the "owner", if it wasnt targetable you wouldnt even have a chance to do this and they would be getting resources back for free
I guess stunning is better than bashing. Still feels like it's up too much. You stun/bash it and it comes up again a bit later. Also wasting a stun on it every time could end up draining your own resource. Seems like a lose-lose scenario.
Unless said stun is AoE and you catch the pet owner to. Leap, Dawnbreaker, Meteor, Mass Hysteria, Mesmerize, etc.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0