250 Telvar cover charge...

Kwoung · January 2022

What if, in IC you could not engage in PVP until you had at least 250 TelVar on you (or whatever number)? I feel like this might address a lot of issues, like gankers with no skin in the game, PVE fisherman, tourists, etc... Of course you wouldn't be able to flip flags or affect PVP until you are flagged either. I haven't really thought it through all the way, but do realize you could farm small amounts of TelVar at a time, then have to zone numerous times to bank it, so not really considering that a huge issue... but what are some other thoughts?

redspecter23 · January 2022

That's an interesting concept. It all depends on what you are able to affect when you're essentially unflagged. You can't really kill much of anything or it autoflags you. It would allow you to fish without worry of being ganked. You could only get so far with the quests as most require you to kill things, even if they are just in your way.

It would massively incentivize nightblades as questers as they have the unique ability to avoid mobs very, very easily compared to other classes, though they could build for stealth and just walk past most things.

I'm sure it could be broken in some way or you could argue the exact number of tel var for the flagging to kick in at, but there is room to explore the idea for sure.

Kwoung · January 2022

redspecter23 wrote: »

It would massively incentivize nightblades as questers as they have the unique ability to avoid mobs very, very easily compared to other classes, though they could build for stealth and just walk past most things.

Funny you mention that... it is what I already do when I just want to pop in and do the dailies real quick.

xylena_lazarow · January 2022

You should only be able to win as much as you're risking to lose. Carry zero telvars, you get zero for your player kills. Want 5k from that glowing blue pillar guy? You gotta be carrying the same 10k they are.

Or just remove telvar loss on death altogether...

Kwoung · January 2022

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

You should only be able to win as much as you're risking to lose. Carry zero telvars, you get zero for your player kills. Want 5k from that glowing blue pillar guy? You gotta be carrying the same 10k they are.

Or just remove telvar loss on death altogether...

Yeah, while I agree with that sentiment, it has been beat to death in other threads, I thought I would suggest something a bit different I haven't seen yet.

wazzz56 · January 2022

nope, It is and has always been marketed as a pvp area with pve aspects.....they need to make changes to encourage pvp in IC and not do things to lessen it....you know the risks of entering a pvp zone......

EF321 · January 2022

Untouchable scouts?

xDeusEJRx · January 2022

Don't think so, it would make telvar farmers jobs easier, without needing to ever engage in PVP. Which will take away from PvPvE and make it solely PVE for people who want to avoid PVP. Telvar farmers can already efficiently farm while avoiding PVP, this will just invite a primarily PVE audience. Like imagine bringing an entire guild into IC of people who aren't flagged for PVP who only care about the PVE aspect and not being able to even touch them at all. That seems like what you'd be inviting and I can't imagine people who play PVP would find that fun, what good would making the zone active again but not being able to interact with a vast majority of people in it? Other than for farming/incoming making reasons as if there needs to be more money in the in-game economy.

I think the system needs a change, but if people can straight up avoid one aspect of the system, I don't see why they wouldn't do so. Which would defeat the purpose of PvPvE and would also take away from Imperial city events as well cause entire guilds could just dodge PVP this way

Kwoung · January 2022

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Don't think so, it would make telvar farmers jobs easier, without needing to ever engage in PVP. Which will take away from PvPvE and make it solely PVE for people who want to avoid PVP. Telvar farmers can already efficiently farm while avoiding PVP, this will just invite a primarily PVE audience. Like imagine bringing an entire guild into IC of people who aren't flagged for PVP who only care about the PVE aspect and not being able to even touch them at all. That seems like what you'd be inviting and I can't imagine people who play PVP would find that fun, what good would making the zone active again but not being able to interact with a vast majority of people in it? Other than for farming/incoming making reasons as if there needs to be more money in the in-game economy.

I think the system needs a change, but if people can straight up avoid one aspect of the system, I don't see why they wouldn't do so. Which would defeat the purpose of PvPvE and would also take away from Imperial city events as well cause entire guilds could just dodge PVP this way

Well, if you kill just a couple mobs you would be flagged, and I did mention details could be worked out, like one guy flags maybe his whole group does, the the 250 TelVar is a group combined total. The only thing it would really stop is gankers whacking folks with no TelVar. And seriously, do you really think whacking a few mobs, zoning 3-4 times going back to your base would be an effective way to farm TelVar... I seriously don't.

But more importantly, gankers would have to be carrying to gank someone. So they could either risk using 250 from their personal bank stash, or go whack some mobs, and like everyone else, risk getting spotted/ganked while doing it.

wazzz56 wrote: »

nope, It is and has always been marketed as a pvp area with pve aspects.....they need to make changes to encourage pvp in IC and not do things to lessen it....you know the risks of entering a pvp zone......

Yeah I know the risk, someone is going to try and gank me from stealth, and even if I win I get squat. Seems like the risk is pretty one sided to me.

Also, please enlighten me as to what the PVE aspects of IC are? As far as I can tell, it has the same exact stuff as Cyrodiil... quests, skyshards, fishing, etc... so how exactly is it more PVE than Cyro?

Amottica · January 2022

At the core, I do not think Zenimax is interested in creating a system that flags some for PvP while others are not. While I typed that sentence I realize it will lead to other issues as well like PvE players taking up slots in Cyrodiil but are not flagged for PvP. If they do it for one they will eventually have to do it for the other.

hafgood · January 2022

No, sorry, its a PvPvE zone. You go in, you are fair game, I go in to do dailies regularly, if I get ganked, I get ganked. I'm not going to cry about it, I'll either give the daily another go, try one of the others or come back later. Sometimes I'll get lucky and kill the ganker, what can I lose? A couple of hundred Telvar? Not a problem they are easy to farm

Beardimus · January 2022

Nope.

It's a hybrid zone.

Also it's easy enough in PvE guise to earn 50/60k TelVar quick

Quiet server time, PvE setup, cap flags and loop the ring solo. (carrying 10k plus for 4x bonus)

Thus the gain or risk / reward of 250 TV really isn't

wazzz56 · January 2022

@Kwoung was your question about how the pve in ic and pve in cyro are different serious? npc density, the quest line,
2 area specific currencies gathered from mobs, roaming bosses with monster sets, the fact that ic was marketed as a hybrid zone etc....the pve is far different between the 2 zones.....

Kwoung · January 2022

wazzz56 wrote: »

@Kwoung was your question about how the pve in ic and pve in cyro are different serious? npc density, the quest line,
2 area specific currencies gathered from mobs, roaming bosses with monster sets, the fact that ic was marketed as a hybrid zone etc....the pve is far different between the 2 zones.....

Depends on your perspective I guess. I find Cyro to be considerably more PVE friendly than IC, having both PVP & PVEed in both. As for Monster Sets, those are a recent addition and ZOS's idea to get more PVEer's to go there... which didn't really work out, it is still a dead zone. I also find it hard to consider it a PvPvE zone, when the PVE half of the equation avoids it like the plague.

DrSlaughtr · January 2022

I've always seen IC as death match with optional quests. Cyrodiil is objective based.

Necrotech_Master · January 2022

Kwoung wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

@Kwoung was your question about how the pve in ic and pve in cyro are different serious? npc density, the quest line,
2 area specific currencies gathered from mobs, roaming bosses with monster sets, the fact that ic was marketed as a hybrid zone etc....the pve is far different between the 2 zones.....

Depends on your perspective I guess. I find Cyro to be considerably more PVE friendly than IC, having both PVP & PVEed in both. As for Monster Sets, those are a recent addition and ZOS's idea to get more PVEer's to go there... which didn't really work out, it is still a dead zone. I also find it hard to consider it a PvPvE zone, when the PVE half of the equation avoids it like the plague.

i really enjoy IC, but i dont usually go there for pvp lol (im prolly 75% pve and 25% pvp in relation to playtime)

i do usually avoid the surface though (as that is where 90% of the pvp in IC happens), i either farm near base or make molag bal runs in the center

redspecter23 · January 2022

Kwoung wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

@Kwoung was your question about how the pve in ic and pve in cyro are different serious? npc density, the quest line,
2 area specific currencies gathered from mobs, roaming bosses with monster sets, the fact that ic was marketed as a hybrid zone etc....the pve is far different between the 2 zones.....

Depends on your perspective I guess. I find Cyro to be considerably more PVE friendly than IC, having both PVP & PVEed in both. As for Monster Sets, those are a recent addition and ZOS's idea to get more PVEer's to go there... which didn't really work out, it is still a dead zone. I also find it hard to consider it a PvPvE zone, when the PVE half of the equation avoids it like the plague.

I think you raise a valid point. Is it really PvPvE if PvE players don't really want to be there? Sure, they may want the rewards during the event, but often avoid the PvP aspects as much as possible during that time. Some will surely say that's fine but it really doesn't help the zone feel less dead overall.

I see it just a bit differently. To me, it's not about PvE vs PvP specifically but often I see it as farmers vs gankers. There are 2 ways to get Tel Var. Farm it yourself or farm the farmers. Nobody likes being ganked and killed in under 2 seconds, but it happens and that can turn your farm sour quickly. The entire concept of invis ganking is such a massive turnoff for players but is incentivized to such a huge degree in IC that I don't blame players for losing interest quickly once they get instakilled a few times. You can argue that those players should learn to play or git gud, but the truth is that many will just choose the more appealing option of skipping the content altogether, which is what you see now. It does nothing to help the zone feel populated.

Kwoung · January 2022

redspecter23 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

@Kwoung was your question about how the pve in ic and pve in cyro are different serious? npc density, the quest line,
2 area specific currencies gathered from mobs, roaming bosses with monster sets, the fact that ic was marketed as a hybrid zone etc....the pve is far different between the 2 zones.....

Depends on your perspective I guess. I find Cyro to be considerably more PVE friendly than IC, having both PVP & PVEed in both. As for Monster Sets, those are a recent addition and ZOS's idea to get more PVEer's to go there... which didn't really work out, it is still a dead zone. I also find it hard to consider it a PvPvE zone, when the PVE half of the equation avoids it like the plague.

I think you raise a valid point. Is it really PvPvE if PvE players don't really want to be there? Sure, they may want the rewards during the event, but often avoid the PvP aspects as much as possible during that time. Some will surely say that's fine but it really doesn't help the zone feel less dead overall.

I see it just a bit differently. To me, it's not about PvE vs PvP specifically but often I see it as farmers vs gankers. There are 2 ways to get Tel Var. Farm it yourself or farm the farmers. Nobody likes being ganked and killed in under 2 seconds, but it happens and that can turn your farm sour quickly. The entire concept of invis ganking is such a massive turnoff for players but is incentivized to such a huge degree in IC that I don't blame players for losing interest quickly once they get instakilled a few times. You can argue that those players should learn to play or git gud, but the truth is that many will just choose the more appealing option of skipping the content altogether, which is what you see now. It does nothing to help the zone feel populated.

Which was the entire point of my suggestion, since so many other suggestions have been beaten down. To actually revive the dang zone and make it fun again and not feel like a completely lopsided proposition. I personally have no issues going there and killing folk or dying if it's fair, but what's the point... as almost none of the folks who attack me and I kill drop TV, yet I will if they win... so the heck with that scenario.

Until the zone is even somewhat fair, the incredibly few folks that play there can have their fun. Which BTW, they will defend to the death, because if IC filled up again, those folks wouldn't be able to do what they are doing now, it would be a whole other ball game.

divnyi · January 2022

So if one aliance is dominating, it is dominating for good? No, it is awful idea. We need things that increase engagement and resistance of the smaller factions, not decrease that.

Jaraal · January 2022

Telvar gain per kill should be limited to the amount you are carrying. Even risk to reward ratio.