Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Honestly I think ZOS is absolutely afraid to write anything that might actually have an edge to it thats sharper than a plastic spork. There's hints through out the zones that the writing team is more than capable of quality writing. But ZOS has been trying to avoid anything that can be misinterpreted as endorsing XYZ that they've gone back and changed dialog in older content. I like to always point people at the town of Senie in Stonefalls. Originally theres this tension building up between Dunmer and Argonians through out the first half of the zone. And in Senie this was on full display as the Dunmer were being their racist selves. Only for them to respond in a shocked manner when you healed them using Soft Scales poultices. But years later if you run a new character through that quest the Dunmer will simply thank you and disappear. No shock, no undertone of disgust.

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

They forced player characters that are DB Silencers to snitch on the Dark Brotherhood in order for them to continue the main questline in Blackwood. Not just telling someone "I am a member of the Dark Brotherhood", but knowingly handing a complete stranger a document containing the most damaging secrets concerning the Brotherhood's activities in Blackwood.

They shoehorned returning characters into the main quest and into nearly every side quest. The whole thing feels like a travelling circus. Story quests that are actually about Blackwood are pushed to the periphery.

This tells me everything I need to know about the qualities of ESO's story writing in 2021.

Aliyavana wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

I want to start this off by saying that having reached act 2 of the main quest for Blackwood, the writing so far is MILES better than last year's. The plot is compelling and different, the pacing is great, and I'm being drawn in; like a good book, I'm having difficulty putting it down because I need to see what happens next. I don't know why the stories between last year and this year feel so different in quality, but its like night and day. I don't know how it ends yet, and I'm hoping the quality stays this good to the end, but at least til this point, the writers have done an amazing job!

But I want to talk about the quest, Shadows in the Swamp, which is the Hutan-Zel objective. Warning that this post contains some spoilers, so if you don't want the broader outcomes revealed, don't read any further!

I loved seeing Heem-Jas again - he's a quirky and fun character, and its hard not to hear his lines and not get a laugh. The voice acting is great, too. I also really loved the dramatic set-up for the story; the Imperials have approached the tribe in order to establish trade networks they believe will benefit the tribesfolk, but the Argonians recognise the pitfalls that come from bedding up with the Imperials - in many ways, the Imperial outlook is at odds with that of the Argonians because they tend to be ignorant or dismissive of cultural nuance and values, and their relationship with the world conflicts directly with that of the Argonians. When the Argonians refuse the Imperial overtures, instead of leaving, the Imperials set up camp right on the edge of Argonian territory, making the Argonians feel nervous, and ramping up tensions between the two people. This theme exploring Imperialism is one of the core, enduring threads often seen throughout TES series.

However, the way ESO handles these intriguing and compelling hooks is to once again wrap it all up very neat and tidy. By the end of the quest, everyone forgives everyone, absolutely everyone has seen the error of their ways and now everyone is happy happy best friends, the concerns that the Argonians had have been all but brushed under the carpet lest they get in the way of the happy friends disney ending that seems to need to happen at the cost of the possibility of anything remotely interesting or thought-provoking.

Its the same as the ending we see at the end of last year's story, where literal years of story-writing have set up this interesting tension and conflict between Eastern and Western Skyrim, hinting at this maybe ancient divide (the roots of which might even be a little bit of what drives the conflict we see in ES5), and even more so between the Reachmen and the Nords, its all sold down the river for an utterly groan-worthy happy happy everyone's friends again ending, don't worry, big daddy Jorunn is here to save the day!

I'm not saying that traditional Elder Scrolls writing is the most adult stuff you could ever find, but something I've always appreciated is that there's some complexity to the stories we encounter. The unreliable narrator has been awesome - its not just a device that allows a writer to escape from ever committing to anything ever, though. It shines when its used to be able to explore perspectives. All the titles have done great jobs of depicting opposing, but relatable viewpoints and the subsequently tragic conflicts they result in. Even Skyrim, for all the edgy complaints about its casualisation and shallow story has to be recognised for presenting a conflict people are still turning over and over 10 years later. These stories are compelling and challenging because if we explore an issue, we see that there's often more to a particular issue than what's on the surface, and while we tend to have these knee-jerk, snap judgements when presented some story, a little exploration shows there's usually no right or wrong. To get a bit philosophical, in a world where technology and information promise so much, but where people with agendas strive to control this information to ply propaganda and keep us less informed than ever before, this sort of story telling can serve a purpose in reminding us to not take things at face value, to be suspicious of black-and-white reporting, and to seek to understand all aspects of an issue.

But off my soapbox, I don't think that all writing in ESO needs to be revolutionary and life-changing - but having this incessant compulsion to always wrap up stories with a disney ending at the cost of not only major plot points, but also the character and spirit of elder scrolls story telling is really missing the mark, in my view.

Greymoor really rubbed me the wrong way. Western Nords bad! The leader turned into a meme with "DA GRAY HOST IS MA TRU ALLY!"

Aliyavana wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

I want to start this off by saying that having reached act 2 of the main quest for Blackwood, the writing so far is MILES better than last year's. The plot is compelling and different, the pacing is great, and I'm being drawn in; like a good book, I'm having difficulty putting it down because I need to see what happens next. I don't know why the stories between last year and this year feel so different in quality, but its like night and day. I don't know how it ends yet, and I'm hoping the quality stays this good to the end, but at least til this point, the writers have done an amazing job!

But I want to talk about the quest, Shadows in the Swamp, which is the Hutan-Zel objective. Warning that this post contains some spoilers, so if you don't want the broader outcomes revealed, don't read any further!

I loved seeing Heem-Jas again - he's a quirky and fun character, and its hard not to hear his lines and not get a laugh. The voice acting is great, too. I also really loved the dramatic set-up for the story; the Imperials have approached the tribe in order to establish trade networks they believe will benefit the tribesfolk, but the Argonians recognise the pitfalls that come from bedding up with the Imperials - in many ways, the Imperial outlook is at odds with that of the Argonians because they tend to be ignorant or dismissive of cultural nuance and values, and their relationship with the world conflicts directly with that of the Argonians. When the Argonians refuse the Imperial overtures, instead of leaving, the Imperials set up camp right on the edge of Argonian territory, making the Argonians feel nervous, and ramping up tensions between the two people. This theme exploring Imperialism is one of the core, enduring threads often seen throughout TES series.

However, the way ESO handles these intriguing and compelling hooks is to once again wrap it all up very neat and tidy. By the end of the quest, everyone forgives everyone, absolutely everyone has seen the error of their ways and now everyone is happy happy best friends, the concerns that the Argonians had have been all but brushed under the carpet lest they get in the way of the happy friends disney ending that seems to need to happen at the cost of the possibility of anything remotely interesting or thought-provoking.

Its the same as the ending we see at the end of last year's story, where literal years of story-writing have set up this interesting tension and conflict between Eastern and Western Skyrim, hinting at this maybe ancient divide (the roots of which might even be a little bit of what drives the conflict we see in ES5), and even more so between the Reachmen and the Nords, its all sold down the river for an utterly groan-worthy happy happy everyone's friends again ending, don't worry, big daddy Jorunn is here to save the day!

I'm not saying that traditional Elder Scrolls writing is the most adult stuff you could ever find, but something I've always appreciated is that there's some complexity to the stories we encounter. The unreliable narrator has been awesome - its not just a device that allows a writer to escape from ever committing to anything ever, though. It shines when its used to be able to explore perspectives. All the titles have done great jobs of depicting opposing, but relatable viewpoints and the subsequently tragic conflicts they result in. Even Skyrim, for all the edgy complaints about its casualisation and shallow story has to be recognised for presenting a conflict people are still turning over and over 10 years later. These stories are compelling and challenging because if we explore an issue, we see that there's often more to a particular issue than what's on the surface, and while we tend to have these knee-jerk, snap judgements when presented some story, a little exploration shows there's usually no right or wrong. To get a bit philosophical, in a world where technology and information promise so much, but where people with agendas strive to control this information to ply propaganda and keep us less informed than ever before, this sort of story telling can serve a purpose in reminding us to not take things at face value, to be suspicious of black-and-white reporting, and to seek to understand all aspects of an issue.

But off my soapbox, I don't think that all writing in ESO needs to be revolutionary and life-changing - but having this incessant compulsion to always wrap up stories with a disney ending at the cost of not only major plot points, but also the character and spirit of elder scrolls story telling is really missing the mark, in my view.

Greymoor really rubbed me the wrong way. Western Nords bad! The leader turned into a meme with "DA GRAY HOST IS MA TRU ALLY!"