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Charging Maneuver is overpowered

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master_vanargand
master_vanargand
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Charging Maneuver increases you and your allies movement speed by 45% for 8 seconds.

This skill is clearly overpowered.

Charging Maneuver is the cause of Cyrodiil's bad game imbalance.
Ballgroups employs exclusive player solely to keep Charging Maneuver forever.
Therefore, solos have a "45% speed difference over Ballgroups" just because they can't sustain Charging Maneuver forever.

What if there was "FPS with a 45% difference in moving speed between solo and groups"?

This may sound like a joke, but ESO's PvP is this.
Charging Maneuver, Retreating Maneuver, Rapid Maneuver need to change to improve the game balance of PvP.

[My idea]
Remove Major Expedition from all Maneuver.
Change the effect of Rapid Maneuver to Minor Expedition.
Change the effect of Charging Maneuver to Minor Berserk.
Change the effect of Retreating Maneuver to Minor Protection.

The summary is as follows.

Rapid Maneuver
Mobilize your forces, granting Minor Expedition to you and your allies, ​increasing Movement Speed by 15% for 8 seconds.

Charging Maneuver
Mobilize your forces, granting Minor Expedition and Minor Berserk to you and your allies, increasing Movement Speed by 15% for 8 seconds and damage done by 5%.

Retreating Maneuver
Mobilize your forces, granting Minor Expedition and Minor Protection to you and your allies, increasing Movement Speed by 15% for 8 seconds and reducing damage taken by 5%.

Minor Expedition is easy to use with skills and sets.
Therefore, the game balance of PvP will be much improved.
Edited by master_vanargand on 7 December 2021 22:06
  • Kaelthorn_Nightbloom
    Kaelthorn_Nightbloom
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    I use Charging Maneuver in some battlegrounds for fun. It is a very strong group utility but doesn't guarantee a win.
    PC NA
  • JiChaMa
    JiChaMa
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    I absolutely LOVE your idea!!!

    Let's take away easy access to Major Expedition using Maneuver.
    Screw all those open world questers and pve speed runners.
    Let us summon some forum hatred together.

    I adore your idea giving ballgroups easy access to Minor Protection.
    Whithout loosing perma Major Expedition.

    As a ballgroup player I approve this change.
    I rate this idea: 100%/100% Major Expedition
    Housing and Fashion
  • WombatNipples65
    WombatNipples65
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    Ballgroups don't even use it for the speed, there is a bug that gives them more AoE damage...
    PC EU
    Wômbat - Khajiit Magicka Nightblade - AR50
  • Sm0ke
    Sm0ke
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    Also we use altar spam which causes lags.
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    Tbh. This whole "ball groups" vs randoms comes too often and up to this day ZOS was unable to balance out "ball groups". The thing is every time they tried to introduce a counter, it only made "ball groups" stronger, as they were the ones using the "counter" to their advantage.

    There was only one instance in which ZOS actually managed to balance things out and it was a Paler Order ring changes:
    https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order
    (1 item) Restore 20% of the damage you deal as Health. This value is decreased by 4% per ally you are grouped with. You cannot be healed by anyone but yourself.

    They added a condition that made this set to scale with the ground size. I mean... it was brilliant move and imho is the only way to balance out solo vs grouped in a mixed environment without any MM (Cyro & IC).

    Battle Spirit should have something like that build-in, so it would apply to all abilities & sets. So the larger the group is, the de-buff would get stronger. So for example you could not afford to run perma-purge and perma-speed buff in a 12 man group in PvP as it would be impossible to sustain. You would have to have half or more of the group to be buff-bots. As a result a group could not have damge & tankyness it has - they would have to choose. It would be way more balanced. I understand that it would also affect small-scale PvP, but in a smaller group the de-buff will be less severe (as it would scale with group size), so it would not be that bad I guess.
  • MEBengalsFan2001
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    WombatNipples65 wrote: »
    Ballgroups don't even use it for the speed, there is a bug that gives them more AoE damage...

    There is a bug with mangle as well where it stacks which ball groups abuse. Sorry my overall health should not be going from 30k down to 2K. Spamming heals just to not die but seeing my overall health drop to 2k from multiple pulsar hitting me.

    As for the changes to Maneuver I say no.

    The current skill should be adjusted and do the following. The player using the skill and one other players within 4m of the player receive Major Expedition and up to an additional 2 more players will receive minor Expedition. This fix wouldn't destroy the skill in its current state but fix an issue with how it is being used by ball groups.
    Edited by MEBengalsFan2001 on 8 December 2021 15:42
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    master_vanargand wrote: »
    Charging Maneuver increases you and your allies movement speed by 45% for 8 seconds.

    This skill is clearly overpowered.

    Charging Maneuver is the cause of Cyrodiil's bad game imbalance.
    Ballgroups employs exclusive player solely to keep Charging Maneuver forever.
    Therefore, solos have a "45% speed difference over Ballgroups" just because they can't sustain Charging Maneuver forever.

    What if there was "FPS with a 45% difference in moving speed between solo and groups"?

    This may sound like a joke, but ESO's PvP is this.
    Charging Maneuver, Retreating Maneuver, Rapid Maneuver need to change to improve the game balance of PvP.

    [My idea]
    Remove Major Expedition from all Maneuver.
    Change the effect of Rapid Maneuver to Minor Expedition.
    Change the effect of Charging Maneuver to Minor Berserk.
    Change the effect of Retreating Maneuver to Minor Protection.

    The summary is as follows.

    Rapid Maneuver
    Mobilize your forces, granting Minor Expedition to you and your allies, ​increasing Movement Speed by 15% for 8 seconds.

    Charging Maneuver
    Mobilize your forces, granting Minor Expedition and Minor Berserk to you and your allies, increasing Movement Speed by 15% for 8 seconds and damage done by 5%.

    Retreating Maneuver
    Mobilize your forces, granting Minor Expedition and Minor Protection to you and your allies, increasing Movement Speed by 15% for 8 seconds and reducing damage taken by 5%.

    Minor Expedition is easy to use with skills and sets.
    Therefore, the game balance of PvP will be much improved.

    I don't see a problem with a person maintaining group buffs and/or healing. I don't know why people complain of teamwork, if you see it as a problem, find/create your own team. The game over you variety of ways to play like being tank, dps healer, support or all in one. If you play solo, it is very obivous that you will be at disatvantage and killed if you fight orginized groups. Even during group fights, orginized groups almost always will win against disorganized groups. Everyone in organized groups play a specific role, being a healer/support is one of these role which is why they seem very strong to fight against. Remember, alway kill the healer/support first.
  • master_vanargand
    master_vanargand
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    universal_wrath wrote: »
    master_vanargand wrote: »
    Charging Maneuver increases you and your allies movement speed by 45% for 8 seconds.

    This skill is clearly overpowered.

    Charging Maneuver is the cause of Cyrodiil's bad game imbalance.
    Ballgroups employs exclusive player solely to keep Charging Maneuver forever.
    Therefore, solos have a "45% speed difference over Ballgroups" just because they can't sustain Charging Maneuver forever.

    What if there was "FPS with a 45% difference in moving speed between solo and groups"?

    This may sound like a joke, but ESO's PvP is this.
    Charging Maneuver, Retreating Maneuver, Rapid Maneuver need to change to improve the game balance of PvP.

    [My idea]
    Remove Major Expedition from all Maneuver.
    Change the effect of Rapid Maneuver to Minor Expedition.
    Change the effect of Charging Maneuver to Minor Berserk.
    Change the effect of Retreating Maneuver to Minor Protection.

    The summary is as follows.

    Rapid Maneuver
    Mobilize your forces, granting Minor Expedition to you and your allies, ​increasing Movement Speed by 15% for 8 seconds.

    Charging Maneuver
    Mobilize your forces, granting Minor Expedition and Minor Berserk to you and your allies, increasing Movement Speed by 15% for 8 seconds and damage done by 5%.

    Retreating Maneuver
    Mobilize your forces, granting Minor Expedition and Minor Protection to you and your allies, increasing Movement Speed by 15% for 8 seconds and reducing damage taken by 5%.

    Minor Expedition is easy to use with skills and sets.
    Therefore, the game balance of PvP will be much improved.

    I don't see a problem with a person maintaining group buffs and/or healing. I don't know why people complain of teamwork, if you see it as a problem, find/create your own team. The game over you variety of ways to play like being tank, dps healer, support or all in one. If you play solo, it is very obivous that you will be at disatvantage and killed if you fight orginized groups. Even during group fights, orginized groups almost always will win against disorganized groups. Everyone in organized groups play a specific role, being a healer/support is one of these role which is why they seem very strong to fight against. Remember, alway kill the healer/support first.

    Plaguebreak set was created to ban Purge spam from ballgroups.
    This is the same as the Banned Card (Cards that should not be used) of TCG (MTG and Yu-Gi-Oh!).
    It seems that ESO's game creators are trying to do the same lately.

    I think, "keep Charging Maneuver forever" and "become immortal on the Heal stack (Radiating Regeneration stack and etc heal skills stack)" are destroying the game balance.
  • L_Nici
    L_Nici
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    As if that 45% would make any difference in todays PvP. The CP have Speedstars, way to many skills grant speed. There is usually not even a need for any maneuver, because you easily hit 200% Speed without it.

    The players overall did become to fast, nowadays a Magnecro can run the same Speed as a Stamsorc with Race against Time or similar. A few years ago Stamsorc was by far the fastest class on the map, it was a defining trait, which got lost over time. So if anything ZoS would need to strip some sources of speed entirely.
    Edited by L_Nici on 9 December 2021 11:44
    PC|EU
  • EmperorIl
    EmperorIl
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    With a bazillion combinations of sets and skills/builds in this game don't ever expect balance. Literally impossible.
  • divnyi
    divnyi
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    You are supposed to be in Major Exp most of the time, so difference is 15%, not 45%.

    This skill is the only decent source of major exp for some classes. I'm against the change. Better change the useless morph.
    WeirdGameplay
  • Commandment
    Commandment
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    I read group have an advantage of solo and stopped reading.

    If you expect to play solo and have a advantage over a group of players your dreaming XD. You may kill 1-2 but you will get overraned eventually. Only way you will be able to kill a group is a good setup, but thats a different story.
  • Einstein_
    Einstein_
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    basicly a other:
    "me and the 20 randoms on solo builds without any PvP experience cant kill a organized group with voice and a group setup,
    so groups need to be nerfed"
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