Disbalance and my vision on this

makkon · April 2014

ATM situation isn't so good in my being opinion. So, below I list some of spells/skills which I think should be revamped/reworked/tweaked
ps. sorry for some english mistakes

General Background:
aoe will kill this game in core. Will make it bored and no fun.
sorcs and dk should be nerfed, especially dk. DK tactics - put aoe, push block, get profit.
sorcs pets should be fixed to be more usable in veteran content

Disbalanced/OP abilities:

Bolt escape -> any morphs. Too overpowered. 6-8 times in a row - easy. It is very big distance. Also aoe, cc or good protection in box.
Situation: bat swarm + empreror + bolt escape = kill raid and escape for hundreds meters in 2 seconds...
Fix: make it like it was in beta - increased cost for X second after cast or add 0.X seconds cast time.
Surge -> Critical surge. Too overpowered. 50% crit chance can get any players. Average crit damage is 100 with light attacks...
Situation: no comments. take physical aoe and become god mode Rambo.
Fix: make it less duration or give a chance on hit to get healed. dunno, but 100% chance on any crit - abit OP.
Dragon blood -> any morphs, especially Green dragon blood. Too overpowered. Half HP - ok, use it and get 100% HP pool. Low HP - even better. Big problem - spammable.
Situation: bat swarm + empreror + bolt escape = kill raid and escape for hundreds meters in 2 seconds...
Fix: make it like it was in beta - increased cost for X second after cast or add 0.X seconds cast time.
Bash. Pain in ass in pvp. Tanks can make it almost no cost. Huge damage with fast attack speed under full immunity to any controll and damage...grac
Situation: DK - charge, root, put on 2-3 dots, block UP, bash to the end...
Fix: look at next point below or increase next bash in X seconds by Y%
Block. Also problem in pvp. With bash it worked like charm...
Situation: DK - charge, root, put on 2-3 dots, block UP, bash to the end...
Fix: remake block, so it drain stamina each second while block is UP. So also should be remaked stamina cost of success blocking (decreased)
Dark Talons + any mophs. Too OP root. Probably coz 8m radius and no immun on rooting effects after roll dodge (+ 1 roll dodge will not give you 8m escape)
Fix: make root as standart CC, so there will be 3-4 sec immun after you break this or after effect end (like stun, etc)
Bat swarm -> Devouring Swarm. No comments. Every1 see this *** on pvp, especially with DK or sorc empreror.
Fix: add dminishing returns on additional hit from tick after X targets. Or add deminishing return on healing from this.

Gimped abilities:

Snipe -> any morphs. Too useless. Too big casting time, too low damage, too hard to use since it works only on distance. Useless in PVE.
Situation: In stealth, get target, and fail to cast due the foregoing reasons. 50% chance I can't casts it coz some factors. Also, no point to use it after fight is started.
Fix: decrease cast time, increase damage

Some bugs:
(special thx to @MrBeneos since I fully agree)

NB Class Abilities and Passives:

Assassination:

Death Stroke <Incapacitating Strike> and <Soul Harvest> On occasion the animation will happen however the ability is not actually triggered.
Assassin’s Blade <Killer’s Blade> and <Impale> – On occasion the animation will happen however the ability is not actually triggered.
Teleport Strike <Ambush> – On occasion the animation will happen however the ability is not actually triggered.
Haste <Focused Attacks> and <Incapacitate> – The attack speed increase of 30% doesn’t affect any weapons.
Mark Target <Piercing Mark> and <Reaper’s Mark> – The ignore 75% of target’s Armour and Spell Resistance doesn’t appear to work.
Mark Target <Reaper’s Mark> – The gain damage bonus effect does not appear to work.
Mark Target <Piercing Mark> – Allows you to see and attack targets who are sneaking however not targets that are invisible currently.
Pressure Points <Passive> – It currently gives .3% instead of 3% crit at level 2 for each Assassination ability slotted.
Pressure Points <Passive> – it is incorrectly giving 2% crit no matter how many assassin abilities are slotted.

Shadow:

Shadow Cloak <Shadowy Disguise> – Approximately 25% of the time this ability does not trigger any of its effects.
Shadow Cloak <Shadowy Disguise> and <Dark Cloak> – On occasion you wont visually be invisible but you are to the mobs.
Shadow Cloak <Shadowy Disguise> – When utilising this ability with low resources you will instantly be removed from stealth.
Shadow Cloak <Shadowy Disguise> and <Dark Cloak> – Your character becomes invisible however enemy players can see particle effects and thus be able to locate your player.
Shadow Cloak <Dark Cloak> – Does not remove bleed debuffs from npc or player sourced specific ones mentioned are Axe, Twin Slashes, Cleave.
Teleport Strike <Lotus Fan> and <Ambush> – Often when using Teleport strike it will have adverse effects to your FPS.
Teleport Strike <Ambush> – On occasion the animation will happen however the ability is not actually triggered.
Veiled Strike <Concealed Weapon> – The 22% movement speed in stealth while slotted effect appears to suffer the dreaded “Once you’ve died you need to re-log or zone to rectify the issue”. Workaround: If you re-log or change zones it will force the passive effect to work again.
Veiled Strike <Surprise Attack> and <Concealed Weapon> – Often the animation and stun effect will occur but no damage is done to the enemy.
Path of Darkness <Twisting Path> and <Refreshing Path> – This ability appears to be affected by terrain, the magicka cost is spent however the ability does not trigger.
Path of Darkness <Refreshing Path> – Sometimes heals more than once per second, it has been document to happen anywhere up to 5 times per second on occasion.
Aspect of Terror <Mass Hysteria> and <Manifestation of Terror> – The base fear effect of 2 nearby enemies doesn’t appear to last the suggested 4 seconds all the time. It is often between 1.5 – 4 seconds.
Summon Shade <Dark Shades> and <Shadow Image> – The Shadow Image often stops attacking once the initial target it was cast on dies.
Shadow Barrier <Passive> – Doesn’t properly increase your Armor when coming out of Stealth or Invisibility for 4 seconds.

Siphoning:

Strife <Funnel Health> – On occasion can heal more than the suggested 2 ally players and sometimes it doesn’t apply to anyone including the player.
Strife <Funnel Health> – Doesn’t appear to be healing allies for the actual amount it should be, inconsistent heal effects.
Strife <Funnel Health> and <Swallow Soul> – Due to the ranged nature of this spell the projectile often takes several seconds to land on the intended target (even if in melee range).
Strife <Funnel Health> and <Swallow Soul> – Often once cast if the player was to turn away from the enemy target this ability will not do any damage to the intended enemy. (Nearly like it should be a channel from previous games)
Cripple <Debilitate> and <Crippling Grasp> – The dot effect of this ability does not work on mobs that are immune to snare effects.
Agony <Prolonged Suffering> – The added effect of this morph is meant to deal extra damage and this doesn’t work.
Siphoning Strikes <Leeching Strike> – Only gives an extra 2.4% health instead of the expected 4%.
Drain Power <Sap Essence> – The healing attribute of this morph is only increased by a maximum of 20% currently which is equal to one mob.
Drain Power <Sap Essence> – Is unable to perform a critical strike for both the damage and healing component of this ability.
Drain Power <Sap Essence> – Will not cast the heal effect unless the enemy is being damaged.
Magicka Flood <Passive> – Gives 8% max magicka at level 2 per siphoning ability that is slotted. This passive doesn’t detect Strife or Soul Shred but does detect <Funnel Health> a morph to Strife.
Siphoning Strikes <Siphoning Attacks> - Do not triggering on some attacks like Drain Power and any of it morphs like probably alot of other damage skills/spells

Weapon Abilities and passives:

Dual Wield:

Flurry <Rapid Strikes> and <Blinding Flurry> – Occasionally has an issue where the animation is trigger and you are locked in combat however the ability performs no damage. Workaround: To force Flurry to cancel its animation you should open your character info screen, the default key for this “c”.
Flurry < Rapid Strikes> – Does not appear to increase your attack speed. (Similar bug to haste maybe, all attack speed increase abilities are broken?)
Twin Blade and Blunt <Passive> – When you have daggers equipped you should gain an extra 5% crit at level 2 however this is not reflected in the character info sheet.

Medium Armour:

Agility <Passive> – Is incorrectly giving the player 20% attack speed at level 2 instead of 10%.

Vampire:

Vampirism Stage Bonuses <Buff> - “Your Vampirims abilities cost 60% less to cast” does not currently work for abilities using your Ultimate resource. It works after vamp stage is changed and bugged again if you relog/change zone or instance. Same for vamp passives
Mist Form <Poison Mist> – Appears to only be dealing damage between 1-1.5 seconds instead of the documented 0.5 seconds.
Undeath <Passive> – It is meant to provide damage mitigation when a play with is below 30% health, this is currently bugged and isn’t working.
Unnatural Resistance <Passive> – It is meant to provide health recovery in Vampirism stages 2-4, this is currently bugged and isn’t working.
Dark Stalker <Passive> – Suffers from the dreaded once you die you will need to relog and/or zone to gain the perk back.

Armitas · April 2014

makkon wrote: »

[*] Dragon blood -> any morphs, especially Green dragon blood. Too overpowered. Half HP - ok, use it and get 100% HP pool. Low HP - even better.

Dragon blood heals for 33% of missing health. If you popped it at half health you would then recover a third of your missing health rather than the other half. Very inefficient to use it this way.

I think you may have misplaced the "situation" here for Dragon blood as well. It's the same one given for bolt escape.

As to synergistic situations I think the synergy should be nerfed rather than the skills that make up the synergy.

Sleepwalker · April 2014

"Imbalanced" is the word you were looking for. Just FYI.

makkon · April 2014

Armitas wrote: »

Dragon blood heals for 33% of missing health.

spammable is a problem. but yes, probably I got excited

Ciedoc · April 2014

I can tell you are a PvPer just by the skills you whine about. Probably a nightblade archer vampire...am I right? Why don't you just change your post to say Make my build god mode and nerf all others. You know the typical let PvP "balance" (hold on let me get my breath back from laughing so hard) determine how others should play in PvE or be free alliance points in PvP. And LOL at your OMG if you do A+B * C+D -E / F =G(od) mode scenario.

You complain about snipe? One of the hardest hitting skills in game? Or do you just not know how to use it? Vamp skills...I see you are a mist form ganker that is qqing about not being a one shot one killer right? Got to love the OMG I got beat...no one can beat me; if I loose its because they are OP and I am gimped PvP mentality. No one said PvP was always a one on one game. Everything you have cried about has a counter if you can get out of the me me me mindset. For every rock there is a paper. For every scissor there is a rock. No Spock around here.

makkon · April 2014

@Ciedoc
probably nightblade, but not archer

and yes, I am pvper. I am not complain about god mode and/or gimped templars/nightblads, but I am sure - aoe will kill all fun, will bring huge disbalance and will kill this game at the end.

who have huge aoe? right, dk and sorcs. along with aoe they have crazy sustain abilities (teleport for sorcs as example)
also, those emprerors who killing raids with only 2 skills...
balance? not sure

and yes, snipe if full *** skill. try to find some ppl who use it in group pvp and you failed. if some ppl use it in group fights - they are brainless probably. also for ganks or 1v1 there are much more better skills.

ps. ppl who playing sorcs/dks will never understand and will be disagree for sure with me. ofc - if they get nerfed, they will be sad
its ok, it looks like ZOS already looking into this issue and nerfed aoe on pts server.

IvoryFox · April 2014

makkon wrote: »

ps. ppl who playing sorcs/dks will never understand and will be disagree for sure with me. ofc - if they get nerfed, they will be sad

Yea. I am playing both and don't agree with you in most of the points mentioned. Have you ever played one of them?
If not.. you are a Nightblade. I usually see Nightblades (PvE content, not PvP) that 2-hit enemys where I need several more hits as a Sorcerer. They also have enough cc-skills and a nice selfheal.
And now you are telling me that Sorcerer and DK are too strong in general. Mh.. no, sorry. Like I said in the beginning I will not agree with you

Shield Bash is nice but you can't kill a whole group with it. It costs too much stamina for this. And you have to block for this wich also costs stamina if you get hit.

Where I agree with you is that there are imbalances in this game that should be investigated (such as god mode skill combinations where players can't be killed even by a whole zerg). And maybe the Bolt Escape is a bit too strong in some ways (in PvE I can cc a whole group until they are dead) and should be nerfed a little (just a little).
But there are things you and several other people don't quite get: it is not balanced for 1:1 !!!
You can camp and roam in PvP but it is designed as a mass pvp.
There should be no skill combinations that allow you to kill 1000 people and don't even get harmed (seems there are lot of problems mit emperors?) but Shield Bash and other things are useless in groups.
Until you have different classes there will NEVER be a balance for 1:1.

Everytime I read something about nerfing skills/classes it is in combination with the word "emperor". Maybe it is just me but... isn't there something broken with emperors and not the skills themselve? You can't nerf skills from other classes than your own (where you maybe never played them) just because they are too strong in combination with "emperor" or an overpowered armor set.

Teloran · April 2014

hheublb16_ESO wrote: »

makkon wrote: »

ps. ppl who playing sorcs/dks will never understand and will be disagree for sure with me. ofc - if they get nerfed, they will be sad

Yea. I am playing both and don't agree with you in most of the points mentioned. Have you ever played one of them?
If not.. you are a Nightblade. I usually see Nightblades (PvE content, not PvP) that 2-hit enemys where I need several more hits as a Sorcerer. They also have enough cc-skills and a nice selfheal.
And now you are telling me that Sorcerer and DK are too strong in general. Mh.. no, sorry. Like I said in the beginning I will not agree with you

Shield Bash is nice but you can't kill a whole group with it. It costs too much stamina for this. And you have to block for this wich also costs stamina if you get hit.

Where I agree with you is that there are imbalances in this game that should be investigated (such as god mode skill combinations where players can't be killed even by a whole zerg). And maybe the Bolt Escape is a bit too strong in some ways (in PvE I can cc a whole group until they are dead) and should be nerfed a little (just a little).
But there are things you and several other people don't quite get: it is not balanced for 1:1 !!!
You can camp and roam in PvP but it is designed as a mass pvp.
There should be no skill combinations that allow you to kill 1000 people and don't even get harmed (seems there are lot of problems mit emperors?) but Shield Bash and other things are useless in groups.
Until you have different classes there will NEVER be a balance for 1:1.

Everytime I read something about nerfing skills/classes it is in combination with the word "emperor". Maybe it is just me but... isn't there something broken with emperors and not the skills themselve? You can't nerf skills from other classes than your own (where you maybe never played them) just because they are too strong in combination with "emperor" or an overpowered armor set.

The only way that a Nightblade can ever two hit an enemy is with a sneak attack (NOT invisibility, sneak). If you have a stamina build, or use molten whip on your DK, you can do pretty much the same thing.

Critical Surge is also considerably more powerful then any Nightblade heal and means that stamina based Sorcerer will out DPS any other stamina based class.

I don't think Bolt Escape or Dragon Blood needs a nerf. Bolt Escape is less efficient then other damaging CCs and Dragon Blood is justifiably expensive.

For the record, myself and many others on Tamriel Foundry believe that DKs and Sorcerers are currently stronger then Templars and Nightblades.

makkon · April 2014

some additional info to initial post
ps. nb broken as class, templar broken as not support/healer - its a fact

Sezmu · April 2014

There are counters available to almost every class for the majority of skills you have a problem with. The other involve tactics. If you just want to follow the zerg and pew pew no skill required pvp go back to whatever it is you played before.

Biggest problem with your complaints is you are comparing most these abilties when on an Emporess(or)

makkon · April 2014

if it were possible, i will go solo pvp with pleasure, but almost each pvp zone is zerg cluster with 2-3 raid with aoe

+ high latency -> delays 2-10 seconds, even on using spells/skills.
also there was no places or hard to find such places where I can enjoy small scale.
nothing can be done - such mechanics.

but this topic isnt about cirodiil core mechanic

Kililin · April 2014

ridiculous thread is ridiculous

Please buff me, plz nerf everyone else