current state of openworld magden builds - the jack of all trades and master of none

Playnice · October 2021

Magden seems like the one class that should be able to do it all in openworld pvp or smallgroup comp. In actual gameplay, it feels more like the class is spread too thin across damage, defensive and healing power. No other class feels this way (to me).

Don't get me wrong, I love the class and have been very successful with it across various patches. Currently though, Magden just feels lackluster when going for a balanced build. One big issue is specing into the Warden's most respectable burst heal causes a very noticeable drop is killing power. Why? The scaling of Arctic Blast influences the overall build too much. This problem is unique to Magden.

This issue was clouded over in the past due to players banking on passive health recovery to keep them alive. After the health recovery adjustment in Battlespirit, the issue is ever more apparent.
Nearly every magden I’ve encountered will either 1) tank you into oblivion without ever dropping you below half health, 2) deal decent damage but severely lack in survivability. I think some kind of tweaking could be done to bring Magden back as a serious contender in openworld pvp.

ESO_Nightingale · October 2021

Playnice wrote: »

it feels more like the class is spread too thin across damage, defensive and healing power. No other class feels this way (to me).

Bingo. that's what is going on right now, we were being propped up by proc sets and arctic blast's health scaling healing for the entirety of last year, and when those were killed off, so were we. nowadays, magden struggles to compete in anything at all except for group healing. which, is absolutely different to self healing, of which we are miserable at.

We have many burst healing options. but none of which are actually good enough to compete with what other mag classes have. Major Mending (which is what our healing was balanced around) was nerfed heavily, and our actual green balance skills were not compensated. our best burst heal at the moment is Blessing Of Restoration and even it can't keep up. In comparison to shrooms, it heals much more, is far cheaper and gives minor resolve, where as shrooms gives the minor recovery buffs for magicka and stamina recovery. if we want to compare budding seeds and living trellis as heals, they both take 2 GCDs just to heal as much as what honor the dead takes to heal in just 1. This doesn't keep us alive. layering blast, living trellis and rapid regen doesn't keep you alive while also hemorraging your magicka sustain, which isn't great either. Don't bother running shields since sorc's shield stacking got them nerfed.

with magden its pick 1:

good damage
good sustain
good survivability

other classes can do 2 or 3 of these.

This also doesn't mention the lack of a solid offensive stun that we need. Because arctic blast sure isn't it. Neither is flame clench since it locks weapon options and knocks the enemy out the way of your shalks.

gariondavey · October 2021

My bg guild does group 4v4v4s and we have a couple of magdens who do nutty damage. They are tanky af too with great cross healing.

ESO_Nightingale · October 2021

gariondavey wrote: »

My bg guild does group 4v4v4s and we have a couple of magdens who do nutty damage. They are tanky af too with great cross healing.

the cross healing is the thing keeping them alive because they can't simultaniously build for survivability damage and sustain. It's definitely not the same in solo, it can't function there when most other classes can because it doesn't have the 2 tools it desperately needs eg: a solid self burst heal and a good offensive damaging stun.
If you think a class is fine but when your context is in a group perspective, then isn't every class when it has cross healing and LOS through multiple people's hitboxes tanky af? Magcros are far more effective than Magdens at just about every field you could think of. it's especially glaring when looking at survivability where intensive mender heals for as much as arctic blast every 2 seconds, when they also have an incredibly effective single target heal, while also having fantastic group healing and support, and more mitigation. Blastbones is similar in function to shalks and will almost always hit for far more than a deep fissure because it's damage scales up, is fire and thus is effected by engulfing and deals increased damage to vampires.
get your guys to try out running a couple of magcros instead. This also isn't a rip on magcros, more of a question of "why can't magden just have what it needs to succeed in solo?"

Elsonso · October 2021

Hmm.

Magden is my current solo dungeon character. It seems to work, so I don't think too much about it.

ESO_Nightingale · October 2021

Elsonso wrote: »

Hmm.

Magden is my current solo dungeon character. It seems to work, so I don't think too much about it.

what??? this is the pvp forum, player vs player has nothing to do with soloing pve dungeons?

Elsonso · October 2021

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Hmm.

Magden is my current solo dungeon character. It seems to work, so I don't think too much about it.

what??? this is the pvp forum, player vs player has nothing to do with soloing pve dungeons?

Sorry... This popped up in "Recents" and I did not look at the actual forum.

ESO_Nightingale · October 2021

Elsonso wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Hmm.

Magden is my current solo dungeon character. It seems to work, so I don't think too much about it.

what??? this is the pvp forum, player vs player has nothing to do with soloing pve dungeons?

Sorry... This popped up in "Recents" and I did not look at the actual forum.

That makes sense lol.

Playnice · October 2021

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

My bg guild does group 4v4v4s and we have a couple of magdens who do nutty damage. They are tanky af too with great cross healing.

the cross healing is the thing keeping them alive because they can't simultaniously build for survivability damage and sustain. It's definitely not the same in solo, it can't function there when most other classes can because it doesn't have the 2 tools it desperately needs eg: a solid self burst heal and a good offensive damaging stun.
If you think a class is fine but when your context is in a group perspective, then isn't every class when it has cross healing and LOS through multiple people's hitboxes tanky af? Magcros are far more effective than Magdens at just about every field you could think of. it's especially glaring when looking at survivability where intensive mender heals for as much as arctic blast every 2 seconds, when they also have an incredibly effective single target heal, while also having fantastic group healing and support, and more mitigation. Blastbones is similar in function to shalks and will almost always hit for far more than a deep fissure because it's damage scales up, is fire and thus is effected by engulfing and deals increased damage to vampires.
get your guys to try out running a couple of magcros instead. This also isn't a rip on magcros, more of a question of "why can't magden just have what it needs to succeed in solo?"

I couldn't agree more. I have played a fair amount of magcro in solo and smallgroup format and it feels to me like it has a higher ceiling than magden, harder hitting, stronger cross healing, and a delayed burst range attack that absolutely slaps when it lands. Again, magden is well rounded in what build options are available in their toolkit, but magden's effectiveness in a solo/duo comp is really just no comparison to magcro for me.