wardens

xHotguy6pack · August 2021

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

yeah this guy's claims are silly. permafrost doesn't do a huge amount of damage, based on the tooltip it's slightly worse than winter's revenge and blockade of frost does roughly half of that. if those are literally the only 2 damage skills that this guy has on his build, then he's not actually doing much damage whatsoever, especially since brightthroat's boast gives less damage output than necropotence. it's likely that it's just another one of those comments trying to get magden nerfed for no actually legitimate reason. wanting stamden nerfed, i understand, but when magden is genuinely worse than stamcro, stamden, magcro and a bunch of other classes in a lot of areas, so much so that notable magden mains on legend who are genuinely quite good have left the subclass to the dumpster, i'm just kind of over here laughing. it's also funny because new players have warden when they buy the game now.

Not really. It's literally a build on YouTube. All I did was change a skill or two to my liking. His name is Dooma. I recommend looking it up and educate yourself on how busted warden is. I'm not saying to nerf it at all. I'm just saying it's pay to win and needs no changes or buffs.

moo_2021 · August 2021

geonsocal wrote: »

I just made a warden orc and preparing a combo of sub, dive, charge with bleeding set and bleeding 2h

dive's not usually slotted too much in pvp...also, dual wield (spin-to-win baby) seems to work really nice in conjunction with sub-assault, sneak a dawnbreaker in there and you're cooking with gas...

[/quote]

ahhh! because whirling is area attack of 6m range without the need to aim? I couldn't hit with reverse slice.

All right I shall change to 2h+dw

ESO_Nightingale · August 2021

xHotguy6pack wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

yeah this guy's claims are silly. permafrost doesn't do a huge amount of damage, based on the tooltip it's slightly worse than winter's revenge and blockade of frost does roughly half of that. if those are literally the only 2 damage skills that this guy has on his build, then he's not actually doing much damage whatsoever, especially since brightthroat's boast gives less damage output than necropotence. it's likely that it's just another one of those comments trying to get magden nerfed for no actually legitimate reason. wanting stamden nerfed, i understand, but when magden is genuinely worse than stamcro, stamden, magcro and a bunch of other classes in a lot of areas, so much so that notable magden mains on legend who are genuinely quite good have left the subclass to the dumpster, i'm just kind of over here laughing. it's also funny because new players have warden when they buy the game now.

Not really. It's literally a build on YouTube. All I did was change a skill or two to my liking. His name is Dooma. I recommend looking it up and educate yourself on how busted warden is. I'm not saying to nerf it at all. I'm just saying it's pay to win and needs no changes or buffs.

[snip] this guy is healing and doing very little damage in that video, he's certainly not killing much of anything without damage dealer assistance. not to mention he's also using deep fissure in some of those clips and still not killing. he's playing a healden. that's all magicka warden is at the moment, sure he's not doing bad, but he is literally just providing group support. you're saying that you're doing the same damage than full damage builds with 1 minor aoe DoT and 1 minor AoE damage ultimate? when even this guy is running DEEP FISSURE and not getting much damage or killing anything? [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

neferpitou73 · August 2021

I'm reluctant to call for nerfs because we all know where that leads.

But Wardens are undoubtedly overperforming right now. The tower-troll immune to all CC tanking 20 people builds have gotten out of hand. The balance of tankiness and damage on this class needs to be looked at

geonsocal · August 2021

moo_2021 wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

I just made a warden orc and preparing a combo of sub, dive, charge with bleeding set and bleeding 2h

All right I shall change to 2h+dw

i'm telling ya, unless you wanna have to stay on point and engaged the entire time you're fighting - using a bow is a really nice "time out" in pvp, particularly battlegrounds...a two bar melee setup is popular with a lot of folks, but - it's a whole lot more work...

i mean, the whole reason wardens and necromancers are so much fun is that you can take a bit of a break while playing and still kill folks and not die too much...a dw/bow stam warden pvp toon is pretty smooth and easy...

what sets did you end up equipping on your warden?

Marcus_Aurelius · August 2021

neferpitou73 wrote: »

I'm reluctant to call for nerfs because we all know where that leads.

But Wardens are undoubtedly overperforming right now. The tower-troll immune to all CC tanking 20 people builds have gotten out of hand. The balance of tankiness and damage on this class needs to be looked at

Tower trolls are not because of Wardens, or Necro or Stamsorcs are overpowerforing.
They simply use LOS and all the people that run after them are so clueless that think that they are using some magic build to absorb all the damage. The true is that they are taking so little damage.
And saying that they are immune to CC because they are wardens? Eveyone can be almost immune to cc using pots.

Killing Tower trolls is not so hard if people instead of complaining would just learn how to fight them.
Use tab targeting to always see where they are.
Don't all run after them, someone has to stay in the middle and when you see them passing in front of an opening hit them hard.
If you see them coming towards you block or roll dodge through them cause they are going to try to burts you.

Is not rocket science, but I imagine calling for nerf is easyer.

xHotguy6pack · August 2021

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

[

[snip] this guy is healing and doing very little damage in that video, he's certainly not killing much of anything without damage dealer assistance. not to mention he's also using deep fissure in some of those clips and still not killing. he's playing a healden. that's all magicka warden is at the moment, sure he's not doing bad, but he is literally just providing group support. you're saying that you're doing the same damage than full damage builds with 1 minor aoe DoT and 1 minor AoE damage ultimate? when even this guy is running DEEP FISSURE and not getting much damage or killing anything? [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

I recommend watching the entire video and seeing how much damage was done at the end of the battleground. Just because you don't burst someone in 5 seconds doesn't mean you don't do alot of damage. [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

moo_2021 · August 2021

geonsocal wrote: »

i'm telling ya, unless you wanna have to stay on point and engaged the entire time you're fighting - using a bow is a really nice "time out" in pvp, particularly battlegrounds...a two bar melee setup is popular with a lot of folks, but - it's a whole lot more work...

i mean, the whole reason wardens and necromancers are so much fun is that you can take a bit of a break while playing and still kill folks and not die too much...a dw/bow stam warden pvp toon is pretty smooth and easy...

what sets did you end up equipping on your warden?

Thanks, but I really love chasing magicka guys with huge 2h and watching their hp dropping so fast (when I can hit, that is).

still leveling the new warden and not yet lvl 50, although I'll use probably the same proc sets: unleashed terror, merciless charge, and pariah for defense. While my dps in PvE totally sucks, the advantage of warden seems to be timed burst/combo attacks and higher non-crit damage, which would enhance proc sets even further. And very nice shield against magicka users

Jameson18 · August 2021

xHotguy6pack wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

[

[snip] this guy is healing and doing very little damage in that video, he's certainly not killing much of anything without damage dealer assistance. not to mention he's also using deep fissure in some of those clips and still not killing. he's playing a healden. that's all magicka warden is at the moment, sure he's not doing bad, but he is literally just providing group support. you're saying that you're doing the same damage than full damage builds with 1 minor aoe DoT and 1 minor AoE damage ultimate? when even this guy is running DEEP FISSURE and not getting much damage or killing anything? [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

I recommend watching the entire video and seeing how much damage was done at the end of the battleground. Just because you don't burst someone in 5 seconds doesn't mean you don't do alot of damage. [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

Having a high damage number on a BG board at the end of a match doesn't really mean that it was productive.

neferpitou73 · August 2021

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

I'm reluctant to call for nerfs because we all know where that leads.

But Wardens are undoubtedly overperforming right now. The tower-troll immune to all CC tanking 20 people builds have gotten out of hand. The balance of tankiness and damage on this class needs to be looked at

Tower trolls are not because of Wardens, or Necro or Stamsorcs are overpowerforing.
They simply use LOS and all the people that run after them are so clueless that think that they are using some magic build to absorb all the damage. The true is that they are taking so little damage.
And saying that they are immune to CC because they are wardens? Eveyone can be almost immune to cc using pots.

Killing Tower trolls is not so hard if people instead of complaining would just learn how to fight them.
Use tab targeting to always see where they are.
Don't all run after them, someone has to stay in the middle and when you see them passing in front of an opening hit them hard.
If you see them coming towards you block or roll dodge through them cause they are going to try to burts you.

Is not rocket science, but I imagine calling for nerf is easyer.

Thank you for assuming that I don't know how to handle them. Fighting them is just absolutely obnoxious

Are you really arguing 3 players being able to tank 20 is healthy for the game?

geonsocal · August 2021

moo_2021 wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

i'm telling ya, unless you wanna have to stay on point and engaged the entire time you're fighting - using a bow is a really nice "time out" in pvp, particularly battlegrounds...a two bar melee setup is popular with a lot of folks, but - it's a whole lot more work...

i mean, the whole reason wardens and necromancers are so much fun is that you can take a bit of a break while playing and still kill folks and not die too much...a dw/bow stam warden pvp toon is pretty smooth and easy...

what sets did you end up equipping on your warden?

Thanks, but I really love chasing magicka guys with huge 2h and watching their hp dropping so fast (when I can hit, that is).

sounds like you're having a bunch of fun, which, at the end of the day is kind of the whole point

my stam sorc has a blast hacking and slashing with a big ol' two hander...definitely an up tempo playstyle...

oh yeah, if you haven't already leveled to 50 and you wanna grind some xp, check out forgotten crypts in deshaan...added bonus, you'll level your fighter's guild ability (also a good spot for leveling companions)...the dawnbreaker ult works real well with just about any build, but serves as a really good set up for your execute with either executioner or whirling blades...add in a jewel with the bloodthirsty trait and watch the bodies hit the floor...

taugrim · August 2021

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Arbiter7070 wrote: »

. You can build a stamden to damn near 40K health or over and still get 7K weapon damage and near max resist.

Can you please post a build with this stats?
I'm very curious to see it, because I see lot of people saying this but no one show something to prove it.
Asked several time but no evidence of this fabolous build.

Why you guys don't let us partake in this faboulous build and keep it only for yourself?

I call BS on that post.

You can't get health that high with weapon damage and armor. High armor means you're nerfing your weapon damage, because you're running a defensive set and / or heavy armor.

mocap · August 2021

can we pls don't nerf warden? Im currently leveling up one xd

geonsocal · August 2021

mocap wrote: »

can we pls don't nerf warden? Im currently leveling up one xd

ugh, I'm always a patch or two behind when it comes to new build/fighting tools...

as soon as I finally get around to using some OP thing, it's getting nerfed...

mmtaniac · August 2021

Wardens are too strong and too easy they have too much defense and too much easy damage for little effort and off course who the f think free purge is good thing.

Lauranae · August 2021

why do i feel that PVP will again destroy a class ?

Marcus_Aurelius · August 2021

mmtaniac wrote: »

Wardens are too strong and too easy they have too much defense and too much easy damage for little effort and off course who the f think free purge is good thing.

Can you please post a video of yourself playing as warden and showing how strong and invincible you are?

moo_2021 · August 2021

mmtaniac wrote: »

Wardens are too strong and too easy they have too much defense and too much easy damage for little effort and off course who the f think free purge is good thing.

easier than nb yes, but how does warden have too much defense?

There is hardly any resist bonus, and I lose minor resolve but able to keep major resolve on group. The hot doesn't seem good - only minor lifesteal on group, to supplement echo vigor but not much. The shield against ranged is indeed good except as stamden my magicka pool is too tiny to keep that up. So most of time my only advantage on individual level is a burst heal in addition to hots.

And the free purge is one effect every 5 seconds? never used it myself because 5 seconds later I'd already be dead.

If you know some abilities or combos please share... it's my first warden character

mmtaniac · August 2021

Free purge can be spammed its free, every time you cast netch you get little heal from passive(+extra bonus health proc by netch) this its not much but combo this with arctic blast and vigor and you can be unkillable(i play imperial passive to cost reduce) , sustain you can get from orzorga food warden . Killing is Sub Assault and Wrecking blow stun from arctic blast . You can end bg with nice score and 0 death.

Rossmann · August 2021

Arbiter7070 wrote: »

Warden is very powerful right now. Even with the nerf to Artic Blast it is still an insane class. Other classes have gotten closer to Warden and Necro but the power level of both those classes is still well above the others. This is undeniable. Warden has access to almost all the important buffs in the game. You can build a stamden to damn near 40K health or over and still get 7K weapon damage and near max resist. I currently main a stamden in Cyrodiil just because of how powerful it is compared to the other classes. I understand everyone's reluctance for nerfs in this game because ZOS tends go to the extremes with nerfs. But the reality is that this class is overpowered. There's no doubt about it. I find people that argue against nerfs to the class are either Stamden players abusing the class or players that just don't want ZOS to completely gut the class. The latter is understandable. The power level of this class needs toned down quite a bit and also I would say the same for Stamcro.

Hey mate, I have made a new stamden, can you help me a bit with my build?

Currently i have Zoal, Titanborn and Pariah.

30k HP, 30k Stam and 16k mag with camoran drink. 1800 Stam rec.

6k weapon damage and 14k pen. when all procced and buffed.

At backbar s&b I'm on resistance cap 34k without Pariah.

Frontbar Titanborn maul and 26-27k resistances

But can't hit enough and sustain sucks while 1vXing.

How to make 40k HP and over 7k wp?

moo_2021 · August 2021

How much do you hit?

Rossmann · August 2021

moo_2021 wrote: »

How much do you hit?

Fully buffed, i hit player at res cap 3.5k with subassault and 3k with dizzy

Urzigurumash · August 2021

Jameson18 wrote: »

Andre_Noir wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

If that's taken from ESO skills site, it's junk data.

I can make my sub assault and dawnbreaker tool tips look similar as well.

DB also has a stun component. (Or buff component if using other morph.)

AGAIN: stop demagogy. We are talking about damage and it's almost the same as an ult on a spammable skill with a twice range and terrain ignore
Deal with fresh screen if ESO skills is a junk data

Given that, looks like whirlwind should be nerfed as well then.

I think we can be sure that when a skill with execute scaling is in the last slot in a recap that it never actually does that much damage.

I haven't seen any evidence in recent patches that MagDen is overperforming in PvP outside of various proc stacks.

What needs a nerf is Dawnbreaker. Or at least, Necromancers, Vampires and Lycanthropes should not be able to run Fighter's Guild skills (or Mage's Guild either). It's not thematic. Obviously that would hit Necro much harder than StamDen. Alternatively just buff Leap, Incap, etc.

ESO_Nightingale · August 2021

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

Andre_Noir wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

If that's taken from ESO skills site, it's junk data.

I can make my sub assault and dawnbreaker tool tips look similar as well.

DB also has a stun component. (Or buff component if using other morph.)

AGAIN: stop demagogy. We are talking about damage and it's almost the same as an ult on a spammable skill with a twice range and terrain ignore
Deal with fresh screen if ESO skills is a junk data

Given that, looks like whirlwind should be nerfed as well then.

I think we can be sure that when a skill with execute scaling is in the last slot in a recap that it never actually does that much damage.

I haven't seen any evidence in recent patches that MagDen is overperforming in PvP outside of various proc stacks.

What needs a nerf is Dawnbreaker. Or at least, Necromancers, Vampires and Lycanthropes should not be able to run Fighter's Guild skills (or Mage's Guild either). It's not thematic. Obviously that would hit Necro much harder than StamDen. Alternatively just buff Leap, Incap, etc.

magden's only reasonable burst ultimate in overland is dawnbreaker

northern storm is nice pressure and great group support, but it's not a great killing tool. also costs quite a lot for it's effectiveness now. bear is only good in duels since that's a pretty controlled environment. but it stops you from using a healing ultimate which is now completely necessary due to our incredibly rough self healing. Ice Comet can do good damage but that is only when you can land a stun combo with blast, that's not really very easy to do. otherwise you comepletely waste 200 ultimate.

Urzigurumash · August 2021

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

Andre_Noir wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

If that's taken from ESO skills site, it's junk data.

I can make my sub assault and dawnbreaker tool tips look similar as well.

DB also has a stun component. (Or buff component if using other morph.)

AGAIN: stop demagogy. We are talking about damage and it's almost the same as an ult on a spammable skill with a twice range and terrain ignore
Deal with fresh screen if ESO skills is a junk data

Given that, looks like whirlwind should be nerfed as well then.

I think we can be sure that when a skill with execute scaling is in the last slot in a recap that it never actually does that much damage.

I haven't seen any evidence in recent patches that MagDen is overperforming in PvP outside of various proc stacks.

What needs a nerf is Dawnbreaker. Or at least, Necromancers, Vampires and Lycanthropes should not be able to run Fighter's Guild skills (or Mage's Guild either). It's not thematic. Obviously that would hit Necro much harder than StamDen. Alternatively just buff Leap, Incap, etc.

magden's only reasonable burst ultimate in overland is dawnbreaker northern storm is nice pressure and great group support, but it's not a great killing tool. also costs quite a lot for it's effectiveness now. bear is only good in duels since that's a pretty controlled environment. but it stops you from using a healing ultimate which is now completely necessary due to our incredibly rough self healing.

True, it's definitely not the best idea, just the most obvious way to close the gap between Warden/Necro and DK/NB without adjusting any of the class kits at all.

Mostly I think the skill is too abundant right now. It should go back to just being a Stamplar/StamSorc thing, somehow.

ESO_Nightingale · August 2021

Urzigurumash wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

Andre_Noir wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

If that's taken from ESO skills site, it's junk data.

I can make my sub assault and dawnbreaker tool tips look similar as well.

DB also has a stun component. (Or buff component if using other morph.)

AGAIN: stop demagogy. We are talking about damage and it's almost the same as an ult on a spammable skill with a twice range and terrain ignore
Deal with fresh screen if ESO skills is a junk data

Given that, looks like whirlwind should be nerfed as well then.

I think we can be sure that when a skill with execute scaling is in the last slot in a recap that it never actually does that much damage.

I haven't seen any evidence in recent patches that MagDen is overperforming in PvP outside of various proc stacks.

What needs a nerf is Dawnbreaker. Or at least, Necromancers, Vampires and Lycanthropes should not be able to run Fighter's Guild skills (or Mage's Guild either). It's not thematic. Obviously that would hit Necro much harder than StamDen. Alternatively just buff Leap, Incap, etc.

magden's only reasonable burst ultimate in overland is dawnbreaker northern storm is nice pressure and great group support, but it's not a great killing tool. also costs quite a lot for it's effectiveness now. bear is only good in duels since that's a pretty controlled environment. but it stops you from using a healing ultimate which is now completely necessary due to our incredibly rough self healing.

True, it's definitely not the best idea, just the most obvious way to close the gap between Warden/Necro and DK/NB without adjusting any of the class kits at all.

Mostly I think the skill is too abundant right now. It should go back to just being a Stamplar/StamSorc thing, somehow.

They'd have to buff bear or northern storm somehow then. The only ways i think would be fair are by reducing northern's cost or by giving bear a teleport upon using claw and reducing it's cast time down to 1.5s like sorc pets. Would make it more consistent and more single-barable while not increasing it's damage in pve. Since it's already such a colossal % of it there.

Urzigurumash · August 2021

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

Andre_Noir wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

If that's taken from ESO skills site, it's junk data.

I can make my sub assault and dawnbreaker tool tips look similar as well.

DB also has a stun component. (Or buff component if using other morph.)

AGAIN: stop demagogy. We are talking about damage and it's almost the same as an ult on a spammable skill with a twice range and terrain ignore
Deal with fresh screen if ESO skills is a junk data

Given that, looks like whirlwind should be nerfed as well then.

I think we can be sure that when a skill with execute scaling is in the last slot in a recap that it never actually does that much damage.

I haven't seen any evidence in recent patches that MagDen is overperforming in PvP outside of various proc stacks.

What needs a nerf is Dawnbreaker. Or at least, Necromancers, Vampires and Lycanthropes should not be able to run Fighter's Guild skills (or Mage's Guild either). It's not thematic. Obviously that would hit Necro much harder than StamDen. Alternatively just buff Leap, Incap, etc.

magden's only reasonable burst ultimate in overland is dawnbreaker northern storm is nice pressure and great group support, but it's not a great killing tool. also costs quite a lot for it's effectiveness now. bear is only good in duels since that's a pretty controlled environment. but it stops you from using a healing ultimate which is now completely necessary due to our incredibly rough self healing.

True, it's definitely not the best idea, just the most obvious way to close the gap between Warden/Necro and DK/NB without adjusting any of the class kits at all.

Mostly I think the skill is too abundant right now. It should go back to just being a Stamplar/StamSorc thing, somehow.

They'd have to buff bear or northern storm somehow then. The only ways i think would be fair are by reducing northern's cost or by giving bear a teleport upon using claw and reducing it's cast time down to 1.5s like sorc pets. Would make it more consistent and more single-barable while not increasing it's damage in pve. Since it's already such a colossal % of it there.

For Northern Storm I think if both the DoT and the buffs lasted for 20 seconds it would be balanced at its cost, if compared to Corrosive, which has the same cost. The buffs aren't as good as Corrosive's, but the DoT is better, and only MagDen gets Major Heroism from a skill - but no Battle Roar, so, maybe it would balance these 2 similar Ults. Ravenous Goliath and Vamp Ult might both be better Pressure Ults than Northern Storm or Corrosive right now, but, no Ult Gen when they're up.

I'm not nearly as experienced as you on this class but I agree with your general issue about playing solo MagDen. As strong as Deep Fissure is, there's just enough burst to reliably secure Ks using only Forest as an Ult, and there's not enough burst-self-healing to stay up without Forest in many situations. Which Green Balance skill do you think should be adjusted for better burst-self-healing in solo play? Or should Polar Wind be adjusted to scale off Spell Damage? Edit: Never mind, just read your linked document there, the burst heal on Trellis is your answer? What about just having Mushrooms heal the caster for slightly more than allies?

I'm all for access to Hybridization but it made more sense when Mag ran Meteor, Stam ran Dawnbreaker. Prohibiting Vampires from joining the Fighter's Guild is a start, let them remain in the Mage's Guild, since removing MagPlar/MagCro access to Major Sorcery outside of Pots is just too much of a nerf.

ESO_Nightingale · August 2021

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Edit: Never mind, just read your linked document there, the burst heal on Trellis is your answer? What about just having Mushrooms heal the caster for slightly more than allies?

that would possibly work as well, however, doing it to trellis is a way to cut back on bar space that magden wastes in trying to slot so many active defensive skills just to stay alive. would be easier for zos to do the mushroom change, but it would need to be around 20% bonus to self in order for major mending to bump it up to a normal single target class burst heal amount. cost would satisfy the power of the skill where as living trellis may need a cost nerf if the suggestion document came true.

moo_2021 · August 2021

Rossmann wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

How much do you hit?

Fully buffed, i hit player at res cap 3.5k with subassault and 3k with dizzy

Forgot to ask if it's no-cp? In no-cp this would be low yes. (but given your stats it should be higher)

But from I saw in BG, most can't push much more. Instead they use ultimate and combos.

In CP it's entirely different...

moo_2021 · August 2021

geonsocal wrote: »

i'm telling ya, unless you wanna have to stay on point and engaged the entire time you're fighting - using a bow is a really nice "time out" in pvp, particularly battlegrounds...a two bar melee setup is popular with a lot of folks, but - it's a whole lot more work...

I got what you meant!

But no, not bow, silver shards. Because that way it's on front bar with 2h mace pen and full offensive bonuses.

It seems that, ranged players tend to avoid melee, and often the first thing they do after bleeding charge is to dodge and trying to gain distance, which gives me time to fire silver shards. I managed to kill someone good that way today, that was impossible with my typical combo for god knows why.

Also bonus for vampires and werewolves. had great trouble killing werewolves until switched to silver shards