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Is this true or false?
Valabrog
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It doesnt matter which brawler type you play (stamden, stamcro, stamplar, stamdk) - if you are high skilled, you will rip apart zerglings anyway, but you will melt against duo/trio of the equally high skilled players. Is this correct?
P.S. In so called "PVP tier lists" one class is usually S tier, another A tier etc etc. But in reality, apart from duels, how much influence you class abilities/passives have for the outcome of Xing? Nowdays you have such a wide range gear/weapon or guild abilities to choose from, to compensate the lack of specific class skills (apart from streak and cloak)..
P.S. In so called "PVP tier lists" one class is usually S tier, another A tier etc etc. But in reality, apart from duels, how much influence you class abilities/passives have for the outcome of Xing? Nowdays you have such a wide range gear/weapon or guild abilities to choose from, to compensate the lack of specific class skills (apart from streak and cloak)..
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Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It doesnt matter which brawler type you play (stamden, stamcro, stamplar, stamdk) - if you are high skilled, you will rip apart zerglings anyway, but you will melt against duo/trio of the equally high skilled players. Is this correct?
P.S. In so called "PVP tier lists" one class is usually S tier, another A tier etc etc. But in reality, apart from duels, how much influence you class abilities/passives have for the outcome of Xing? Nowdays you have such a wide range gear/weapon or guild abilities to choose from, to compensate the lack of specific class skills (apart from streak and cloak)..
Half true. A good player on a mediocre class and meh gear will wipe the floor with inexperienced players.
If the player is good, they won't melt against just two or three players who are equally skilled. Against two, it's still possible to win. Against three, they're probably screwed, but they should prolong the fight.
The biggest difference "Xing" makes is those classes that have strong mobility skills have options when the best strategy is retreat and regroup. In those situations, the brawler spec usually finds themselves dying gloriously unless they are in an environment with lots of LOS.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.4 -
Valabrog✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »It doesnt matter which brawler type you play (stamden, stamcro, stamplar, stamdk) - if you are high skilled, you will rip apart zerglings anyway, but you will melt against duo/trio of the equally high skilled players. Is this correct?
P.S. In so called "PVP tier lists" one class is usually S tier, another A tier etc etc. But in reality, apart from duels, how much influence you class abilities/passives have for the outcome of Xing? Nowdays you have such a wide range gear/weapon or guild abilities to choose from, to compensate the lack of specific class skills (apart from streak and cloak)..
Half true. A good player on a mediocre class and meh gear will wipe the floor with inexperienced players.
If the player is good, they won't melt against just two or three players who are equally skilled. Against two, it's still possible to win. Against three, they're probably screwed, but they should prolong the fight.
The biggest difference "Xing" makes is those classes that have strong mobility skills have options when the best strategy is retreat and regroup. In those situations, the brawler spec usually finds themselves dying gloriously unless they are in an environment with lots of LOS.
Thanks for the insight!
Yea, sadly I understand the impact of mobility..Thats why I mentioned specificly brawler classes, which have no class specific escape ways 🙂 So does it actually matters if a pro player plays stamden (S tier) or stamplar(A tier)? I imagine that the difference between effectiveness between classes are like 5-10%..Like in PVE tier lists, where nb can pull 80k dps and dk 84 - who even cares, actually, difference is so small..Few mistakes during rotation on boss and one will do 74k and another 79k. Same in 1vX, one serious mistake and you wount recover, be it S tier or B tier class - or therr could be certain scenarios where the only class which could "pull it off" is stamcro etc.
Thinking about specific skills one comes to mind - artic wind on stamden. I cant count how many times i would be dead without it. On the other hand, jabs puts so much preasure on the enemy that he cant even take a breath, while on the other hand its pretty hard to land shalks + ds sometimes..So both classes have procs and cons in my eyes..0 -
ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭It doesnt matter which brawler type you play (stamden, stamcro, stamplar, stamdk) - if you are high skilled, you will rip apart zerglings anyway, but you will melt against duo/trio of the equally high skilled players. Is this correct?
P.S. In so called "PVP tier lists" one class is usually S tier, another A tier etc etc. But in reality, apart from duels, how much influence you class abilities/passives have for the outcome of Xing? Nowdays you have such a wide range gear/weapon or guild abilities to choose from, to compensate the lack of specific class skills (apart from streak and cloak)..
False, there are some extremely broken builds out there that can carry you. Like the living dark ones healing a massive amount of damage consistently in CP scenarios, or the NB with oblivion and another set around trash mobs or squishies, certain hybrids, etc. - good luck with those builds because they do, in fact, have a massive advantage over others.
Some of these sets players would never touch like hist whisperer give a massive advantage in certain scenarios people would never guess could, and definitely give you a huge edge vs. even a zerg.
Fortunately for anyone using those types of builds, they will never get nerfed because players think the sets are trash.
But then again, maybe I am just being a Contrarian...0 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭2 equally skilled players will likely stalemate.
2v1 with equally skilled players results in the 1 losing.
Skilled players of any class will beat unskilled players.
Equally skilled players where one class is much stronger than the other will result in the stronger class winning.PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden2 -
Raeyleigh✭✭✭You can beat equally skilled players 1v2 but not 1v3. In a 1v2 its possible to lucky punch knockout one when they overextend and then duell the other, but in a 1v3 that wont help.
The squishier the opponents the better. You have a greater chance at a turnaround vs sorcs or nb. When people stack wardens and necros all you can do is log out.1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »It doesnt matter which brawler type you play (stamden, stamcro, stamplar, stamdk) - if you are high skilled, you will rip apart zerglings anyway, but you will melt against duo/trio of the equally high skilled players. Is this correct?
P.S. In so called "PVP tier lists" one class is usually S tier, another A tier etc etc. But in reality, apart from duels, how much influence you class abilities/passives have for the outcome of Xing? Nowdays you have such a wide range gear/weapon or guild abilities to choose from, to compensate the lack of specific class skills (apart from streak and cloak)..
Half true. A good player on a mediocre class and meh gear will wipe the floor with inexperienced players.
If the player is good, they won't melt against just two or three players who are equally skilled. Against two, it's still possible to win. Against three, they're probably screwed, but they should prolong the fight.
The biggest difference "Xing" makes is those classes that have strong mobility skills have options when the best strategy is retreat and regroup. In those situations, the brawler spec usually finds themselves dying gloriously unless they are in an environment with lots of LOS.
Thanks for the insight!
Yea, sadly I understand the impact of mobility..Thats why I mentioned specificly brawler classes, which have no class specific escape ways 🙂 So does it actually matters if a pro player plays stamden (S tier) or stamplar(A tier)? I imagine that the difference between effectiveness between classes are like 5-10%..Like in PVE tier lists, where nb can pull 80k dps and dk 84 - who even cares, actually, difference is so small..Few mistakes during rotation on boss and one will do 74k and another 79k. Same in 1vX, one serious mistake and you wount recover, be it S tier or B tier class - or therr could be certain scenarios where the only class which could "pull it off" is stamcro etc.
Thinking about specific skills one comes to mind - artic wind on stamden. I cant count how many times i would be dead without it. On the other hand, jabs puts so much preasure on the enemy that he cant even take a breath, while on the other hand its pretty hard to land shalks + ds sometimes..So both classes have procs and cons in my eyes..
I think tiers are overrated (which is why I disagree with 95% of the proposed nerfs on these forums). Stamden may be S tier, but even though I consider myself a good player, there's no way I'd play at an S tier level because I haven't invested a lot of time in it and I am a much better magicka player. I know the class is strong because there are times I win fights despite my inexperience. Though against a good player on their main, often times I need a luck crit or for them to make a mistake even though I have the better spec on paper. So even when we are dealing with classes in which we can agree are in different tiers, player ability is still more important.
I wouldn't compare to PvE because that's much easier to boil down to mathematics and there are a lot less variables involved - most of them are self induced errors rather than the dynamic nature of PvP where you have to react to a thinking opponent. You can be in the middle of pulling off a perfectly timed combination and in PvP that can get dodged, you can get stunned, lots of things can prevent that damage from hitting the target which won't happen in PvE. This is why player skill is so important; it's not enough to think of a good strategy and hit the right buttons because your opponent can and will disrupt you.
In short, I think you are overthinking the importance of classes. If anything, for years now I'd say gear is a more significant influence on what players can pull off in PvP. And I still put this quite a bit below player skill. How many posts have appeared on the forums from players wondering how it is they copied [insert very good player's build], golded out everything, and still complained about opponents who are "unkillable" yet "hit like a truck". Their opponents just seem that way because they are not only better players, but also have competitive experience using that gear and thus know what they can and can't do.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.3 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It doesnt matter which brawler type you play (stamden, stamcro, stamplar, stamdk) - if you are high skilled, you will rip apart zerglings anyway, but you will melt against duo/trio of the equally high skilled players. Is this correct?
P.S. In so called "PVP tier lists" one class is usually S tier, another A tier etc etc. But in reality, apart from duels, how much influence you class abilities/passives have for the outcome of Xing? Nowdays you have such a wide range gear/weapon or guild abilities to choose from, to compensate the lack of specific class skills (apart from streak and cloak)..
Classes have a very strong influence on the outcome of fights in general, personal mistakes might lose you a fight but when looking at a large amount of fights that would have allowed you to 1vX you'll see big differences in how many players you can take on and how many mistakes are pardoned.
Many skills and passives can't be compensated for with sets or universal skills which then results in some specs simply being much better for 1vX.
What's also important for the older classes is how they were designed, magplar for example has distinct offensive and defensive windows that force you to shut down the other aspect.
This isn't really 1vX friendly because it can easily lead to you having to play defensively all the time until you die with not a single offensive window.
Over the last years this has been loosened up but it's still noticeable.
Magsorc and Stamnb both benefit from their offensive design, magsorc having backloaded burst and stamnb having frontloaded burst, coupled with their mobility is a good foundation for 1vX although both are reliant on the current meta to perform well, a full blown tank meta for example punishes both of them a lot, while a high damage meta pushes them even further.
For the DLC classes this doesn't matter as much because delayed AoE burst damage with high survivability is always an exceptionally good foundation for 1vX as it takes care of two aspects that are necessary for a successful 1vX:
Surviving and picking the right target.
With stamden, magnecro and stamnecro surviving is incredibly easy and so powerful that you can stall better players even if they outnumber you.
The AoE burst also works like an "Easy target sat nav" very early into a fight you'll have a good idea who takes a lot of damage and who does a lot of mistakes making it a lot easier to choose a target.
With time and experience you'll know on most specs who to focus first and who you can kill easily.
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BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »It doesnt matter which brawler type you play (stamden, stamcro, stamplar, stamdk) - if you are high skilled, you will rip apart zerglings anyway, but you will melt against duo/trio of the equally high skilled players. Is this correct?
P.S. In so called "PVP tier lists" one class is usually S tier, another A tier etc etc. But in reality, apart from duels, how much influence you class abilities/passives have for the outcome of Xing? Nowdays you have such a wide range gear/weapon or guild abilities to choose from, to compensate the lack of specific class skills (apart from streak and cloak)..
False, there are some extremely broken builds out there that can carry you. Like the living dark ones healing a massive amount of damage consistently in CP scenarios, or the NB with oblivion and another set around trash mobs or squishies, certain hybrids, etc. - good luck with those builds because they do, in fact, have a massive advantage over others.
Some of these sets players would never touch like hist whisperer give a massive advantage in certain scenarios people would never guess could, and definitely give you a huge edge vs. even a zerg.
Fortunately for anyone using those types of builds, they will never get nerfed because players think the sets are trash.
But then again, maybe I am just being a Contrarian...
I doubt that any of the setups you've proposed are close to being competitive or even viable.
Histwhisperer is a waste of a set because sustain is a non issue.
The "other set for stamnb" being heem-jas or Deadwater's guile is worse than the sets people really run.
Hybrids haven't been viable for ages and will never be again.1 -
Valabrog✭✭✭It doesnt matter which brawler type you play (stamden, stamcro, stamplar, stamdk) - if you are high skilled, you will rip apart zerglings anyway, but you will melt against duo/trio of the equally high skilled players. Is this correct?
P.S. In so called "PVP tier lists" one class is usually S tier, another A tier etc etc. But in reality, apart from duels, how much influence you class abilities/passives have for the outcome of Xing? Nowdays you have such a wide range gear/weapon or guild abilities to choose from, to compensate the lack of specific class skills (apart from streak and cloak)..
Classes have a very strong influence on the outcome of fights in general, personal mistakes might lose you a fight but when looking at a large amount of fights that would have allowed you to 1vX you'll see big differences in how many players you can take on and how many mistakes are pardoned.
Many skills and passives can't be compensated for with sets or universal skills which then results in some specs simply being much better for 1vX.
What's also important for the older classes is how they were designed, magplar for example has distinct offensive and defensive windows that force you to shut down the other aspect.
This isn't really 1vX friendly because it can easily lead to you having to play defensively all the time until you die with not a single offensive window.
Over the last years this has been loosened up but it's still noticeable.
Magsorc and Stamnb both benefit from their offensive design, magsorc having backloaded burst and stamnb having frontloaded burst, coupled with their mobility is a good foundation for 1vX although both are reliant on the current meta to perform well, a full blown tank meta for example punishes both of them a lot, while a high damage meta pushes them even further.
For the DLC classes this doesn't matter as much because delayed AoE burst damage with high survivability is always an exceptionally good foundation for 1vX as it takes care of two aspects that are necessary for a successful 1vX:
Surviving and picking the right target.
With stamden, magnecro and stamnecro surviving is incredibly easy and so powerful that you can stall better players even if they outnumber you.
The AoE burst also works like an "Easy target sat nav" very early into a fight you'll have a good idea who takes a lot of damage and who does a lot of mistakes making it a lot easier to choose a target.
With time and experience you'll know on most specs who to focus first and who you can kill easily.
Thats the answer I was looking for
I was hoping someone will clarify those points, like how cool is to launch shalks and wait for them to finish someone, while positioning and going full turtle yourself.
So yea, my doubts were reasonable and my questions were fully answered. Thank you so much! Now i can choose properly..0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »The biggest difference "Xing" makes is those classes that have strong mobility skills have options when the best strategy is retreat and regroup. In those situations, the brawler spec usually finds themselves dying gloriously unless they are in an environment with lots of LOS.
^ This especially. My magDK goes out in a blaze of glory plenty of times in 1vX when I'm seriously outplayed. Always fun to face down the zerg, pop Swarming Scion, and try to score at least 1 kill before my inevitable demise!PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK2 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »It doesnt matter which brawler type you play (stamden, stamcro, stamplar, stamdk) - if you are high skilled, you will rip apart zerglings anyway, but you will melt against duo/trio of the equally high skilled players. Is this correct?
P.S. In so called "PVP tier lists" one class is usually S tier, another A tier etc etc. But in reality, apart from duels, how much influence you class abilities/passives have for the outcome of Xing? Nowdays you have such a wide range gear/weapon or guild abilities to choose from, to compensate the lack of specific class skills (apart from streak and cloak)..
Half true. A good player on a mediocre class and meh gear will wipe the floor with inexperienced players.
If the player is good, they won't melt against just two or three players who are equally skilled. Against two, it's still possible to win. Against three, they're probably screwed, but they should prolong the fight.
The biggest difference "Xing" makes is those classes that have strong mobility skills have options when the best strategy is retreat and regroup. In those situations, the brawler spec usually finds themselves dying gloriously unless they are in an environment with lots of LOS.
The only think you are going to do against two players of equal skill is hold the block button until you can’t anymore or if you are on a sorc streak away. There is no way those two players would allow themselves to get bursted
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azjuwelz✭✭✭✭I’d agree that it is 100 percent about mobility. If you can roll dodge, etc. you can go up to 1v3.
Above that? You’re screwed unless you can divide and conquer.Xbox-NA
Guildmaster of Nightmothers Deadly Deals
PVE/PVP Stamblade: Ylandra Silverthorn
PVE Magwarden healer: Raw'zl Dah Zel
PVE DK Tank: Greta Feuerwerk
PVP StamDK: Helga Feuerwerk
PVP Necro Healer: Dratha Helbain
PVE Magcro: Dorian Fey
PVE Magblade: Arivssa Thaoral
PVE Magsorc: Eldara Birchwood0