Do you want competitive PvP and a ranked ladder in Battlegrounds?

Raeyleigh · July 2021

The main question is in the title.
If you have any thoughts on why, why not or what would need to change to make it work then feel free to comment on that, but i chose to keep the poll simple for clarity.

PvP in any game and of any kind is by nature competitive. There are ranked ladders and ELO systems in many games and genres, and as other MMO's like WoW have shown it keeps the community engaged and serves as content itself. I am aware the stance of the lead designer is otherwise, but i am curious how the active community thinks about it.

Raeyleigh · July 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

Btw, my own stance is that Battlegrounds should be seperated into 3 queues: Random, Solo ranked DM and 4 man group ranked DM.

In random queue you get the 4 objective modes and the daily reward, which should be upped to 10 transmute stones, and retain the current leaderboard mechanic. That way objective modes get both more population and more players who care about the objective.

In ranked solo and group queue there would be deathmatch, but with assists being worth points. For example 10 for a kill, 5 for an assist and a max of 2 assists per kill. ELO loss on third place, retention on second and increase on first place and an MMR rating based on KDA.
The ranked ladder should reset once per new update and grant low - big rewards each week depending on ranking.
And lets be real here, everyone who likes DM will queue for it no matter if they care about rankings or not.

Amottica · July 2021

I think we already know the results of this thread as it will mostly attract those interested in PvP to begin with and probably mostly those interested in the ranked PvP being mentioned.

The questions for Zenimax to answer is, Are there enough players interested in such a design to make investing in building it worthwhile and ensuring it is not empty? This poll or thread cannot answer this question.

The second question OP seems to already know the answer which I assume is that Zenimasx is not interested in such a design. That makes sense as PvP is far from the main focus of this game.

Fhritz · July 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

Battlegrounds NEED ranked for being more attractive AND more enjoyable, because it'll make game more balanced, plus it will make a real "objective" and - who know - maybe we'll see some ESO E-SPORT competition XD

Alucardo · July 2021

I think it's a great idea, but it totally depends on the BG population. You'd be essentially splitting it up by implementing ranked BGs, so there could be some seriously long queue times for both ranked and unranked.

Mariusghost84 · July 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

Of course I want that. That's the one and only thing i really want they add to the game. It would be amazing. I started playing wow pvp recently JUST because of this feature, ranked pvp.

SkaraMinoc · July 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

Ranked arenas was very fun in WoW. It's a no-brainer that it should be added here.

SkaraMinoc · July 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

Amottica wrote: »

Are there enough players interested in such a design to make investing in building it worthwhile and ensuring it is not empty?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the current state of battlegrounds is in a negative feedback loop.

exeeter702 · July 2021

I do not want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Ranked arenas was very fun in WoW. It's a no-brainer that it should be added here.

The poll is not entirely clear though.

A competitive 2 team format for sure.

But to try and inject a competitive bracket or ranked mode into BGs as they exist now? Hell no. Bgs as they exist in eso are the antithesis of balanced competitive mmorpg pvp and are in no way analogous to wows arenas.

Fhritz · July 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

exeeter702 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Ranked arenas was very fun in WoW. It's a no-brainer that it should be added here.

The poll is not entirely clear though.

A competitive 2 team format for sure.

But to try and inject a competitive bracket or ranked mode into BGs as they exist now? Hell no. Bgs as they exist in eso are the antithesis of balanced competitive mmorpg pvp and are in now way analogous to wows arenas.

????

3 team fight are WAY MORE balanced than 2 team format, because during 2 team match if one time dominate the win is almost certain BUT in 3 team match one team can dominate but the other two team will focus more on them, making the "domination" difficult to keep . Trust me, sometimes every team in the battleground focus on objective, and it's always dynamic and REALLY epic

exeeter702 · July 2021

I do not want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

Heres the thing t

Fhritz wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Ranked arenas was very fun in WoW. It's a no-brainer that it should be added here.

The poll is not entirely clear though.

A competitive 2 team format for sure.

But to try and inject a competitive bracket or ranked mode into BGs as they exist now? Hell no. Bgs as they exist in eso are the antithesis of balanced competitive mmorpg pvp and are in now way analogous to wows arenas.

????

3 team fight are WAY MORE balanced than 2 team format, because during 2 team match if one time dominate the win is almost certain BUT in 3 team match one team can dominate but the other two team will focus more on them, making the "domination" difficult to keep . Trust me, sometimes every team in the battleground focus on objective, and it's always dynamic and REALLY epic

Oh man...
Ok, godpseed.

SkaraMinoc · July 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

It should be 1v1, 2v2, or 4v4 ranked deathmatch arena.

Amottica · July 2021

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Are there enough players interested in such a design to make investing in building it worthwhile and ensuring it is not empty?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the current state of battlegrounds is in a negative feedback loop.

If we want to bring the conversation into rocket science or the lack of needing it then we can discuss the very logical reason Zenimax should not consider the suggestion for even one moment.

The specific example OP provided for a game that offers ranked PvP in WoW. A game that requires a subscription to play. Players are required to pay to PvP in WoW. Zenimax has not monetized PvP and pretty much does not have the means to do so. As such it makes no sense for them to consider adding such a headache. I fail to see how this suggestion would make sense to Zenimax. It is also not significant that some gear requires purchasing a DLC or ESO+ to access as that is a short-term pay gate.

Heck. look at the disagreement already in this thread. Some want two-team fights where others think three-team fights are more balanced.

SkaraMinoc · July 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

They should use this arena.

Raeyleigh · July 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

Amottica wrote: »

Heck. look at the disagreement already in this thread. Some want two-team fights where others think three-team fights are more balanced.

exeeter702 wrote: »

The poll is not entirely clear though.

A competitive 2 team format for sure.

But to try and inject a competitive bracket or ranked mode into BGs as they exist now? Hell no. Bgs as they exist in eso are the antithesis of balanced competitive mmorpg pvp and are in no way analogous to wows arenas.

There is no disagreement on the "if" yet. Only on "how". He just got confused and voted wrong. It is yes or no, details in comments.

PvP is, alongside the ES franchise name, the original leg this game is standing on. PvP players pay to play all the same as casual questers or PvE players. I have yet to meet a longtime PvP player that didnt spend extra money on the game.
And if PvP gets revived and both old and new players pick up the game for that, then the profit will multiply. Wether it withers away or becomes revived is within ZOS' decision. We can only lobby.

SkaraMinoc · July 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

Amottica wrote: »

Zenimax has not monetized PvP and pretty much does not have the means to do so. As such it makes no sense for them to consider adding such a headache.

Where's your data to backup the claim that PvPers don't buy significant amounts on the crown store? I can personally attest that your argument does not hold true and I know I'm not an outlier based on player cosmetics I see in battlegrounds.

propertyOfUndefined · July 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

Sure. But honestly, at a minimum, I just want...

1. Merit-based Ranking System: Replace the leaderboard system with one that's purely merit-based, and rewards players who excel, not just players who play the most.
2. Better Rewards: Paired with the merit-based rankings, the top players should be rewarded at the end of every cycle with meaningful rewards that can serve as badges of honor - e.g. exclusive titles, mounts, etc.
3. Transparent MMR: If MMR exists, I think it should be transparent and tied to the merit-based ranking system. Let players know where they stand so they can stop blaming everything on the mysteries of MMR.

Players need a reason to keep playing. Battlegrounds are no-cp, so any CP points earned by playing them is meaningless. The gold you earn is pitiful, and the gear you get just clogs up your inbox. Transmute crystals are the only thing of value, but they can be earned faster through other means.

divnyi · July 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

They should use this arena.

I dislike this arena a lot due to amount of corners, height differences and the like.

Arenas should be random, and should be numerous.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Zenimax has not monetized PvP and pretty much does not have the means to do so. As such it makes no sense for them to consider adding such a headache.

Where's your data to backup the claim that PvPers don't buy significant amounts on the crown store? I can personally attest that your argument does not hold true and I know I'm not an outlier based on player cosmetics I see in battlegrounds.

And not only cosmetics. I bought undaunted skill line (at the very least!) on each character.

Fhritz wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Ranked arenas was very fun in WoW. It's a no-brainer that it should be added here.

The poll is not entirely clear though.

A competitive 2 team format for sure.

But to try and inject a competitive bracket or ranked mode into BGs as they exist now? Hell no. Bgs as they exist in eso are the antithesis of balanced competitive mmorpg pvp and are in now way analogous to wows arenas.

????

3 team fight are WAY MORE balanced than 2 team format, because during 2 team match if one time dominate the win is almost certain BUT in 3 team match one team can dominate but the other two team will focus more on them, making the "domination" difficult to keep . Trust me, sometimes every team in the battleground focus on objective, and it's always dynamic and REALLY epic

That's the point. If your team is better - you win, if not - you lose. They should lower score count required to win for this to work (like, to 150 points), so it doesn't become a burden on obvious loss.

the1andonlyskwex · July 2021

I don't need a full ranking system, but I would love if MMR were reworked to:
1) Actually measure skill rather than time played (or accumulated AP)
And/or
2) Decay over time

Until the MMR reset last year, I had a whole bunch of characters that were essentially unplayable in BGs, because I played them into higher MMR tiers years ago (or while leveling), and don't have the build/skills to be even remotely competitive at those levels.

In particular, the reset taught me that level 50 BGs aren't inherently 10x harder than sub-50 BGs. I was just playing myself into higher MMR tiers while leveling and then getting tossed into the MMR deep end when I hit 50. It's not exactly fun to go from topping leaderboards to getting one-shotted overnight (upon hitting 50), but that is/was my experience with pretty much every character I have.

Post-reset, I find I can go back to each of my old characters and play BGs for a few weeks before they go back to not being fun again. On one character, I managed to stretch that out by golding out his weapons and armor, but I can't really afford to do that with all of my characters, and even he got to a point where BGs became much more stressful than fun.

the1andonlyskwex · July 2021

Fhritz wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Ranked arenas was very fun in WoW. It's a no-brainer that it should be added here.

The poll is not entirely clear though.

A competitive 2 team format for sure.

But to try and inject a competitive bracket or ranked mode into BGs as they exist now? Hell no. Bgs as they exist in eso are the antithesis of balanced competitive mmorpg pvp and are in now way analogous to wows arenas.

????

3 team fight are WAY MORE balanced than 2 team format, because during 2 team match if one time dominate the win is almost certain BUT in 3 team match one team can dominate but the other two team will focus more on them, making the "domination" difficult to keep . Trust me, sometimes every team in the battleground focus on objective, and it's always dynamic and REALLY epic

That's what people claim (mostly based on DAoC), but my experience in ESO is that the two stronger teams just get into a race to see who can beat down the weaker team faster.

One explanation I've heard for this is that ESO gives out the daily rewards for second place, so there isn't much incentive to go for first. That seems too simple though.

Amottica · August 2021

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Zenimax has not monetized PvP and pretty much does not have the means to do so. As such it makes no sense for them to consider adding such a headache.

Where's your data to backup the claim that PvPers don't buy significant amounts on the crown store? I can personally attest that your argument does not hold true and I know I'm not an outlier based on player cosmetics I see in battlegrounds.

The comments strongly support that the game in general is monetized and that is great. In fact, I even noted that some PvP players would briefly pay additional money to obtain gear from new zones. However, it suggests nothing that a player would need to pay anything outside of the base game to play ranked PvP. That is what I am clearly speaking to and is the incentive to building new content. This is a very real and solid aspect of what Zenimax should look at when considering adding new content.

Amottica · August 2021

Raeyleigh wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Heck. look at the disagreement already in this thread. Some want two-team fights where others think three-team fights are more balanced.

exeeter702 wrote: »

The poll is not entirely clear though.

A competitive 2 team format for sure.

But to try and inject a competitive bracket or ranked mode into BGs as they exist now? Hell no. Bgs as they exist in eso are the antithesis of balanced competitive mmorpg pvp and are in no way analogous to wows arenas.

There is no disagreement on the "if" yet. Only on "how". He just got confused and voted wrong. It is yes or no, details in comments.

PvP is, alongside the ES franchise name, the original leg this game is standing on. PvP players pay to play all the same as casual questers or PvE players. I have yet to meet a longtime PvP player that didnt spend extra money on the game.
And if PvP gets revived and both old and new players pick up the game for that, then the profit will multiply. Wether it withers away or becomes revived is within ZOS' decision. We can only lobby.

@Raeyleigh Thanks for that post. If you scroll up you will find a player with a very different opinion on the basic format and suggest 3v3v3 is more balanced. That comment is clearly in disagreement with what you quoted.

Raeyleigh · August 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

Amottica wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Heck. look at the disagreement already in this thread. Some want two-team fights where others think three-team fights are more balanced.

exeeter702 wrote: »

The poll is not entirely clear though.

A competitive 2 team format for sure.

But to try and inject a competitive bracket or ranked mode into BGs as they exist now? Hell no. Bgs as they exist in eso are the antithesis of balanced competitive mmorpg pvp and are in no way analogous to wows arenas.

There is no disagreement on the "if" yet. Only on "how". He just got confused and voted wrong. It is yes or no, details in comments.

PvP is, alongside the ES franchise name, the original leg this game is standing on. PvP players pay to play all the same as casual questers or PvE players. I have yet to meet a longtime PvP player that didnt spend extra money on the game.
And if PvP gets revived and both old and new players pick up the game for that, then the profit will multiply. Wether it withers away or becomes revived is within ZOS' decision. We can only lobby.

@Raeyleigh Thanks for that post. If you scroll up you will find a player with a very different opinion on the basic format and suggest 3v3v3 is more balanced. That comment is clearly in disagreement with what you quoted.

They both want competitive arena PvP in this game, but both support different formats. Which is fine, as i said all we can do is lobby on the forums, and discussion is healthy.

SkaraMinoc · August 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

Even players from that other game want ranked arenas. It's a great loop. (trigger, action, reward, invest)

ganj1234 · August 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

posted this in another thread but here it is again because it's something I feel very strongly about:

BGs desperately needs a ranked and unranked game mode. Virtually any game with PvP has this, and for good reason. Alliance war rank means literally nothing, wheras a seasonal ranking (let's say there's 5 seasons) that you have to repeatedly re-earn would really help and also incentivize players (seasonal collectibles based on your rank *wink wink*)

Throw out the MMR (because that's a whole a$$ mess) and actually implement legit rankings based on one's aptitude for dealing damage and negating/healing damage.

And of course, KD ratio, and wins / losses.

But let's go back to those metrics involving damage, healing, and support. First and foremost, we need better match recap information. Along with damage done / healing done, and the medals we get per match, Information in regards to crowd control uptimes, buff/debuff uptime, status effect uptime, damage blocked and damage dodged would be quite useful. Also, showing each player's class in the match recap needs to be a thing.

These metrics I listed above would allow players to actually see, on paper, the contributions their team members are making so that they could endorse them. Mandatory endorsement of 3 players per match -- one player needing to be on an opposing team. Endorsements could include Healer Endorsement, Damage Endorsement, and Support Endorsement (I imagine there would be better names for this).

So how is this all calculated? Here are some abstract figures to better visualize how this sort of system would work:
You start off as Bronze. It's 2000 points to get to Silver (3500 to get from Silver to Gold, and so on so forth) Here's where those points come from:

Receiving a player endorsement grants you 50 points per.
Each match you win grants you 5 points each.
A KD of 2 gives you 3 points. A KD ratio higher than 4 gives you 10 points. A KD higher than 8 gives you 20 points.
Healing for 80k< gives you 3 points. Healing 250k< gives you 10 points. Healing 500k< gives you 20 points.

So let's say I receive 2 player endorsements, I win my match, I have a KD of 5, and healed 95k points of damage.

Separate from AP gained, I would receive 118 seasonal rank points.
Now if I didn't receive any endorsements, this would put me at a mere sum of 18 seasonal rank points. Which is the primary reason why a system like this would be effective.

1. Incentive to contribute to your team and think critically about your performance in a match
2. Player excellence being more set in stone, hence encouraging a more competitive atmosphere
3. A need to understand, appreciate and testify to the playstyles of others -- even if you lost a fight to them
4. Pretty, shiny collectibles for seasonal rank achievements uWu *_*

Ranked mode for the sweaties, unranked for those trying to just shoot the sh*t or do their dailies. Everybody wins.

Thank you for coming to my ted talk, have a magical day

ganj1234 · August 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

Alucardo wrote: »

I think it's a great idea, but it totally depends on the BG population. You'd be essentially splitting it up by implementing ranked BGs, so there could be some seriously long queue times for both ranked and unranked.

I agree, I think it would have to get worse before it gets better. Change is scary but if there was ranked and unranked modes, eventually I think more players from both sides would be more attracted to the game mode because it could serve both parties respectively. For the casuals, it would be less intimidating, and for the hardcore pvpers it would incentivize. Also, if news spreads that eso was divesting more into serious pvp, it could attract new players too.

Xargas13 · August 2021

I want competitive PvP in ESO and Battlegrounds

I have been playing ranked arenas for ages in WoW. However the reason I quit WoW, because I don't have as much time on my hands. I had a few years where I could just spend all days at the PC playing nothing but WoW. Got to high rating, had all gear, but with the addition of work and other responsibilities, I can't afford that grind. ESO appealed to me, because here I don't need to care about gear so much, it's very easy to get usually, doesn't take much time, and I can jump into it at any moment and still enjoy the game.

So I'm all up for it, if rewards from ranked will be only like cosmetics and mounts, maybe tri stat potions and stuff, but not some super gear.

With all that said, they need to attract more people into PvP first. The off putting thing is balance issues, I hear it often that people can't seem to deal any damage to some players, while they gutting them down in seconds. Maybe it's their build but I've been there too, I know they just stuck defensive buffs, and I think that needs to go, for the sake of the new players that try PvP. God mode should be reserved for cheats in single player games.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Do you want competitive PvP and a ranked ladder in Battlegrounds?

Do you want competitive PvP and a ranked ladder in Battlegrounds? 28 votes