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Can we stop streak BS?
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Kory✭✭✭✭Another reason why Devs should play their own pvp [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 3 August 2021 12:342 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭techprince wrote: »techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?
most stam sorc use BOL, mag Sorcs are more mixed (BOL / Streak), but only have single target dmg. If u get stunned, u can normaly break free + dodge role/block, before the next ability hits u. This stun is easy to handle unlike many other CCs.
Unavoidable AOE stun is easy to handle? Its "unavoidable".
It's an easier stun to counter than Petrify, or fear. Since, in most instances, a sorc stunning you with streak is now behind you and unable to follow up their stun with attacks. Whereas, an unblockable, unavoidable stun from both a DK and a NB is immediately followed by attacks because they are still facing you when they stun you.
[snip] I know both stamsorcs and magsorcs who have no problem to do follow-up attack while person is still breaking from stun. In case of stamsorcs, even with crystal precast + vate medium -> executioner, all in stun frame.
Steak more often than not puts you behind your target, which makes following with a combo nearly impossible, unless
...unless they play on PC with mouse and do 180 turn instantly. [snip]
And in magsorc you don't even need to land perfectly, you need 2 GCD of precast, streak, 180 turn into frags.
Making streak blockable is the only correct solution. Especially now, when second morph is gutted.
[edited to remove quote & for rude comment]
if u cant break free in 1 second to prevent the frag, you should take a serious look at your reflexes
It takes 1 GCD to break, it takes 1 GCD to throw frags. [snip]techprince wrote: »techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?
most stam sorc use BOL, mag Sorcs are more mixed (BOL / Streak), but only have single target dmg. If u get stunned, u can normaly break free + dodge role/block, before the next ability hits u. This stun is easy to handle unlike many other CCs.
Unavoidable AOE stun is easy to handle? Its "unavoidable".
It's an easier stun to counter than Petrify, or fear. Since, in most instances, a sorc stunning you with streak is now behind you and unable to follow up their stun with attacks. Whereas, an unblockable, unavoidable stun from both a DK and a NB is immediately followed by attacks because they are still facing you when they stun you.
[snip] I know both stamsorcs and magsorcs who have no problem to do follow-up attack while person is still breaking from stun. In case of stamsorcs, even with crystal precast + vate medium -> executioner, all in stun frame.
Steak more often than not puts you behind your target, which makes following with a combo nearly impossible, unless
...unless they play on PC with mouse and do 180 turn instantly. [snip]
And in magsorc you don't even need to land perfectly, you need 2 GCD of precast, streak, 180 turn into frags.
Making streak blockable is the only correct solution. Especially now, when second morph is gutted.
Making streak blockable would make streak useless.
Really? Useless? Like, nobody will pick streak if they make it blockable? Do you actually believe in what you say?
Having a stun that may not even work, that also puts you directly into the range of your opponent, on a ranged class, would make for a fairly useless stun.
So what? You say streak will not be used? [snip] It will be used even if they remove morphs, it is literally the best skill in sorc for PvP.
It is not "ranged class", stamsorcs are 90% melee. And magsorcs are stacked with everything as it is, they will survive getting their stun nerfed.
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 3 August 2021 12:351 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭techprince wrote: »Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »
Does petrify have a ramping cost?
Does petrify put you behind your opponent most of the time on cast?
Petrify is single target and requires a target in the first place. Streak is AOE, doesnt require a target. Big difference.
Yeah, big difference. If I use streak against three opponents, I can only burst one of them down if I am lucky and the other two are on CC immunity.
If I use petrify, I can burst the player down, and then petrify the next one and burst them down.
AOE CC is great, situationally. It is not great in the way this post, or the forums would make it seem. Most of a sorc's burst is single target. But, in order to use streak as the intiial stun for that, you literally have to teleport a ranged class into melee range and then single target an opponent. If it didn't AOE stun, you would teleport in and then fall over dead when all of the melee players, who do more damage against you already, pile on. Again, making blockable, or single target, would make it entirely useless, and would remove the ability to stun player reliably from sorcs. A capability that other classes already have right now, including AOE stuns that are unblockable and undodgeable.
You are assuming other 2 players will always have CC immunity [snip]. You can stop other 2 players in their tracks, burst your target down and get away. [snip] AOE CC is extremely powerful and should not be given to the mobile classes like sorcerers.
You are choosing to go into melee range, nobody forced you to. You should know the risks of doing so. Players used Rune Cage before. Developers nerfed it because it was too powerful and then gave an AOE unavoidable stun instead... #Logic.
[edited for baiting/profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 3 August 2021 12:390 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭techprince wrote: »techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?
most stam sorc use BOL, mag Sorcs are more mixed (BOL / Streak), but only have single target dmg. If u get stunned, u can normaly break free + dodge role/block, before the next ability hits u. This stun is easy to handle unlike many other CCs.
Unavoidable AOE stun is easy to handle? Its "unavoidable".
It's an easier stun to counter than Petrify, or fear. Since, in most instances, a sorc stunning you with streak is now behind you and unable to follow up their stun with attacks. Whereas, an unblockable, unavoidable stun from both a DK and a NB is immediately followed by attacks because they are still facing you when they stun you.
[snip] I know both stamsorcs and magsorcs who have no problem to do follow-up attack while person is still breaking from stun. In case of stamsorcs, even with crystal precast + vate medium -> executioner, all in stun frame.
I'm sure they do. All of those skills after a stun when the player is behind them. Streak's stun is only useful when paired with frontloaded damage. Like dropping a meteor and curse, and then streaking. Streaking to stun first is never useful for damage combos unless you have an ally to follow up on the stun with a combo or you get really lucky and land directly on top of a player. Steak more often than not puts you behind your target, which makes following with a combo nearly impossible, unless they have no stam to break free, and they'd have died even without streak anyways if that were the case. Leading a fight with streak, or using streak prior to a burst combo is mostly only done for defensive purposes, to shut down an opponents burst and find some relief in a fight. Not to start an attack combo. Streak is either ending an attack combo, or preventing an attack combo. Anything else is an anomaly.
[edited to remove quote]
If streak's stun is never useful, you shouldn't have problem with removing it but here you are.Edited by techprince on 2 August 2021 23:342 -
NagualV✭✭✭✭The problem is, no-one in these nerf sorc threads actually want any balance. They just don't want sorcs to be viable at all for some reason. Today it is streak, last week it was shields, three years ago it was stun on frags, next week it will be crit surge or something even more ridiculous.
This is correct. Notice how cloak/shade also made it into this thread. There are always a group of people who refuse to acknowledge playstyles OTHER than their preferred style, and they DEMAND that different style classes play on their terms. Sorcs and NB are all lumped in together as having "OP" skills, and it's simply that these folks dont recognize that classes play and are built differently than brawlers(and a lot of the time, its brawlers who make these complaints, since they feel ENTITLED to catch and kill each and every opponent, 100% of the time, and cant fathom someone having a playstyle that allows them to escape.)
[snip]
I'm a NB main, streak is fine.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 3 August 2021 12:259 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭techprince wrote: »techprince wrote: »techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?
most stam sorc use BOL, mag Sorcs are more mixed (BOL / Streak), but only have single target dmg. If u get stunned, u can normaly break free + dodge role/block, before the next ability hits u. This stun is easy to handle unlike many other CCs.
Unavoidable AOE stun is easy to handle? Its "unavoidable".
It's an easier stun to counter than Petrify, or fear. Since, in most instances, a sorc stunning you with streak is now behind you and unable to follow up their stun with attacks. Whereas, an unblockable, unavoidable stun from both a DK and a NB is immediately followed by attacks because they are still facing you when they stun you.
[snip] I know both stamsorcs and magsorcs who have no problem to do follow-up attack while person is still breaking from stun. In case of stamsorcs, even with crystal precast + vate medium -> executioner, all in stun frame.
I'm sure they do. All of those skills after a stun when the player is behind them. Streak's stun is only useful when paired with frontloaded damage. Like dropping a meteor and curse, and then streaking. Streaking to stun first is never useful for damage combos unless you have an ally to follow up on the stun with a combo or you get really lucky and land directly on top of a player. Steak more often than not puts you behind your target, which makes following with a combo nearly impossible, unless they have no stam to break free, and they'd have died even without streak anyways if that were the case. Leading a fight with streak, or using streak prior to a burst combo is mostly only done for defensive purposes, to shut down an opponents burst and find some relief in a fight. Not to start an attack combo. Streak is either ending an attack combo, or preventing an attack combo. Anything else is an anomaly.
[edited to remove quote]
If streak's stun is never useful, you shouldn't have problem with removing it but here you are.
I said it is never useful in the way that players in these threads make it out to be.
But it is also the only viable stun a sorc has. So of course it is being run. Would I prefer a nore reliable ranged stun? Absolutely. But that option was made pathetically useless. So streak it is.
And to your other comment, yes actually, mag sorcs are literally forced into melee range to effectively stun an enemy. It's the only way streak works as a stun.
Rune cage is dodgeable and highly telegraphed. It is a useless skill for the purposes of reliably stunning an opponent.7 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem is, no-one in these nerf sorc threads actually want any balance. They just don't want sorcs to be viable at all for some reason. Today it is streak, last week it was shields, three years ago it was stun on frags, next week it will be crit surge or something even more ridiculous.
This is correct. Notice how cloak/shade also made it into this thread. There are always a group of people who refuse to acknowledge playstyles OTHER than their preferred style, and they DEMAND that different style classes play on their terms. Sorcs and NB are all lumped in together as having "OP" skills, and it's simply that these folks dont recognize that classes play and are built differently than brawlers(and a lot of the time, its brawlers who make these complaints, since they feel ENTITLED to catch and kill each and every opponent, 100% of the time, and cant fathom someone having a playstyle that allows them to escape.)
[snip]
I'm a NB main, streak is fine.
The problem is players see something that is good and only look to nerf it.
A skill being good or useful doesn't mean it is OP. Skills should be good and useful. Making a skill useless, like the gutting they did to both rune cage and now ball of lightning, and what people keep clamoring for with streak and cloak, is the worst option.
If players would actually play the classes they are complaining about seriously they'd understand how to counter them and how off the mark they are when calling for most of these nerfs.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 3 August 2021 12:419 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭techprince wrote: »techprince wrote: »Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »
Does petrify have a ramping cost?
Does petrify put you behind your opponent most of the time on cast?
Petrify is single target and requires a target in the first place. Streak is AOE, doesnt require a target. Big difference.
Yeah, big difference. If I use streak against three opponents, I can only burst one of them down if I am lucky and the other two are on CC immunity.
If I use petrify, I can burst the player down, and then petrify the next one and burst them down.
AOE CC is great, situationally. It is not great in the way this post, or the forums would make it seem. Most of a sorc's burst is single target. But, in order to use streak as the intiial stun for that, you literally have to teleport a ranged class into melee range and then single target an opponent. If it didn't AOE stun, you would teleport in and then fall over dead when all of the melee players, who do more damage against you already, pile on. Again, making blockable, or single target, would make it entirely useless, and would remove the ability to stun player reliably from sorcs. A capability that other classes already have right now, including AOE stuns that are unblockable and undodgeable.
You are assuming other 2 players will always have CC immunity which is BS. You can stop other 2 players in their tracks, burst your target down and get away. And assuming every dk plays solo to "burst the player down, and then petrify the next one and burst them down" is BS as well. Good luck doing that against multiple players with some sense. AOE CC is extremely powerful and should not be given to the mobile classes like sorcerers.
You are choosing to go into melee range, nobody forced you to. You should know the risks of doing so. Players used Rune Cage before. Developers nerfed it because it was too powerful and then gave an AOE unavoidable stun instead... #Logic.
Also, I'm not assuming anything here. A complaint was raised in this thread that the AOE stun was part of the problem. I explained in my post how the AOE stun prevents being ganged up on by multiple enemies when you need to streak in for a stun. Namely, it stuns them too. A ranged class moving into melee range to stun needs to have something that helps to prevent dying in that situation. Having streak only stun 1 person and removing the AOE capability would ruin the skills viability for a primarily ranged class. Because the cost benefit of streaking into melee range and only stunning one person is nowhere near worthwhile.
Classes with melee stuns, like dks, are built from the ground up in their class passives and skills to be brawlers and survive better against melee characters.6 -
Luede✭✭✭✭✭techprince wrote: »techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?
most stam sorc use BOL, mag Sorcs are more mixed (BOL / Streak), but only have single target dmg. If u get stunned, u can normaly break free + dodge role/block, before the next ability hits u. This stun is easy to handle unlike many other CCs.
Unavoidable AOE stun is easy to handle? Its "unavoidable".
It's an easier stun to counter than Petrify, or fear. Since, in most instances, a sorc stunning you with streak is now behind you and unable to follow up their stun with attacks. Whereas, an unblockable, unavoidable stun from both a DK and a NB is immediately followed by attacks because they are still facing you when they stun you.
[snip] I know both stamsorcs and magsorcs who have no problem to do follow-up attack while person is still breaking from stun. In case of stamsorcs, even with crystal precast + vate medium -> executioner, all in stun frame.
Steak more often than not puts you behind your target, which makes following with a combo nearly impossible, unless
...unless they play on PC with mouse and do 180 turn instantly. [snip]
And in magsorc you don't even need to land perfectly, you need 2 GCD of precast, streak, 180 turn into frags.
Making streak blockable is the only correct solution. Especially now, when second morph is gutted.
[edited to remove quote & for rude comment]
if u cant break free in 1 second to prevent the frag, you should take a serious look at your reflexes
It takes 1 GCD to break, it takes 1 GCD to throw frags. [snip]techprince wrote: »techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?
most stam sorc use BOL, mag Sorcs are more mixed (BOL / Streak), but only have single target dmg. If u get stunned, u can normaly break free + dodge role/block, before the next ability hits u. This stun is easy to handle unlike many other CCs.
Unavoidable AOE stun is easy to handle? Its "unavoidable".
It's an easier stun to counter than Petrify, or fear. Since, in most instances, a sorc stunning you with streak is now behind you and unable to follow up their stun with attacks. Whereas, an unblockable, unavoidable stun from both a DK and a NB is immediately followed by attacks because they are still facing you when they stun you.
[snip] I know both stamsorcs and magsorcs who have no problem to do follow-up attack while person is still breaking from stun. In case of stamsorcs, even with crystal precast + vate medium -> executioner, all in stun frame.
Steak more often than not puts you behind your target, which makes following with a combo nearly impossible, unless
...unless they play on PC with mouse and do 180 turn instantly. [snip]
And in magsorc you don't even need to land perfectly, you need 2 GCD of precast, streak, 180 turn into frags.
Making streak blockable is the only correct solution. Especially now, when second morph is gutted.
Making streak blockable would make streak useless.
Really? Useless? Like, nobody will pick streak if they make it blockable? Do you actually believe in what you say?
[snip] if we assume that I streak to a melee char, he can break instantly free, because he has no gcd at this moment and if he is on gcd, his gcd will expire earlier since he cant be on the same because of the stun. Break Free + Dodge is faster than Streak + Frag. I know this, because no sorc hits me with his frag after a stun, and i kill only potatos with this combotechprince wrote: »techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?
most stam sorc use BOL, mag Sorcs are more mixed (BOL / Streak), but only have single target dmg. If u get stunned, u can normaly break free + dodge role/block, before the next ability hits u. This stun is easy to handle unlike many other CCs.
Unavoidable AOE stun is easy to handle? Its "unavoidable".
It's an easier stun to counter than Petrify, or fear. Since, in most instances, a sorc stunning you with streak is now behind you and unable to follow up their stun with attacks. Whereas, an unblockable, unavoidable stun from both a DK and a NB is immediately followed by attacks because they are still facing you when they stun you.
[snip] I know both stamsorcs and magsorcs who have no problem to do follow-up attack while person is still breaking from stun. In case of stamsorcs, even with crystal precast + vate medium -> executioner, all in stun frame.
Steak more often than not puts you behind your target, which makes following with a combo nearly impossible, unless
...unless they play on PC with mouse and do 180 turn instantly. [snip]
And in magsorc you don't even need to land perfectly, you need 2 GCD of precast, streak, 180 turn into frags.
Making streak blockable is the only correct solution. Especially now, when second morph is gutted.
[edited to remove quote & for rude comment]
if u cant break free in 1 second to prevent the frag, you should take a serious look at your reflexes
It takes 1 GCD to break, it takes 1 GCD to throw frags. [snip]
[edited to remove quote & for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 3 August 2021 12:444 -
Pauwer✭✭✭✭✭Yes, as the nbs and sorcs are mortal enemies, nb should have a "stop streak" skill, as any decent sorc will streak any cloacking nb. Many counters to cloack, no counters to streak atm1 -
Andre_Noir✭✭✭✭
Lotus fan wut ? Can u get the difference between:
"jump that require a target and THEN stun target by another ability with damage (both blockable damage and CC -wise) or fear without damage (both ways 2 GCD)"
and "smash streak - apply stun and dmg"
You can't even compare that at least in terms of magicka cost and GCD3 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Andre_Noir wrote: »
Lotus fan wut ? Can u get the difference between:
"jump that require a target and THEN stun target by another ability with damage (both blockable damage and CC -wise) or fear without damage (both ways 2 GCD)"
and "smash streak - apply stun and dmg"
You can't even compare that at least in terms of magicka cost and GCD
I think the point was a gap closer is the counter to streak when used as an escape tool, just like there are counters to cloak when used as an escape tool.9 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Andre_Noir wrote: »
Lotus fan wut ? Can u get the difference between:
"jump that require a target and THEN stun target by another ability with damage (both blockable damage and CC -wise) or fear without damage (both ways 2 GCD)"
and "smash streak - apply stun and dmg"
You can't even compare that at least in terms of magicka cost and GCD
I think the point was a gap closer is the counter to streak when used as an escape tool, just like there are counters to cloak when used as an escape tool.
You can't counter double streak with gap closer if first streak stuns and sorc has comparative movement speed.3 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Andre_Noir wrote: »
Lotus fan wut ? Can u get the difference between:
"jump that require a target and THEN stun target by another ability with damage (both blockable damage and CC -wise) or fear without damage (both ways 2 GCD)"
and "smash streak - apply stun and dmg"
You can't even compare that at least in terms of magicka cost and GCD
I think the point was a gap closer is the counter to streak when used as an escape tool, just like there are counters to cloak when used as an escape tool.
You can't counter double streak with gap closer if first streak stuns and sorc has comparative movement speed.
You can't counter cloak with cloak countering things if they are outside of range of the skill.
Just because it doesn't work in some situations doesn't mean it is not viable as a counter.
But still, I have no idea why anyone thinks that escaping with streak is as reliable as these threads would imply. More often than not, trying to escape with streak leaves me dead before I land after one cast. There is a reason someone is trying to flee a situation and leaving yourself vulnerable for the time that streak takes to cast and teleport is potentially a death sentence.
And especially with the CP node, players mostly break free instantly. Even if you stun them, they break free and then gap close if they are any good.
Sorcs, especially in proc enabled PVP, are mostly good at killing inexperienced players, because good players know how to shut them down and counter them.9 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Andre_Noir wrote: »
Lotus fan wut ? Can u get the difference between:
"jump that require a target and THEN stun target by another ability with damage (both blockable damage and CC -wise) or fear without damage (both ways 2 GCD)"
and "smash streak - apply stun and dmg"
You can't even compare that at least in terms of magicka cost and GCD
I think the point was a gap closer is the counter to streak when used as an escape tool, just like there are counters to cloak when used as an escape tool.
You can't counter double streak with gap closer if first streak stuns and sorc has comparative movement speed.
I can counter double streak with my burst combo. You will be dead before your second streak animation completes. Streak has an animation delay.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on 4 August 2021 13:419 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭techprince wrote: »techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?
most stam sorc use BOL, mag Sorcs are more mixed (BOL / Streak), but only have single target dmg. If u get stunned, u can normaly break free + dodge role/block, before the next ability hits u. This stun is easy to handle unlike many other CCs.
Unavoidable AOE stun is easy to handle? Its "unavoidable".
It's an easier stun to counter than Petrify, or fear. Since, in most instances, a sorc stunning you with streak is now behind you and unable to follow up their stun with attacks. Whereas, an unblockable, unavoidable stun from both a DK and a NB is immediately followed by attacks because they are still facing you when they stun you.
[snip] I know both stamsorcs and magsorcs who have no problem to do follow-up attack while person is still breaking from stun. In case of stamsorcs, even with crystal precast + vate medium -> executioner, all in stun frame.
Steak more often than not puts you behind your target, which makes following with a combo nearly impossible, unless
...unless they play on PC with mouse and do 180 turn instantly. [snip]
And in magsorc you don't even need to land perfectly, you need 2 GCD of precast, streak, 180 turn into frags.
Making streak blockable is the only correct solution. Especially now, when second morph is gutted.
[edited to remove quote & for rude comment]
if u cant break free in 1 second to prevent the frag, you should take a serious look at your reflexes
It takes 1 GCD to break, it takes 1 GCD to throw frags. [snip]techprince wrote: »techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?techprince wrote: »Where is the counter to AOE undogable/unblockable stun which also gap closes AND does decent damage? Why would you make such an overloaded skill? Like Rune Cage wasnt enough? What happened to "Redundancy"? How do you expect us to catch them when they can streak through immobilizations as well?
most stam sorc use BOL, mag Sorcs are more mixed (BOL / Streak), but only have single target dmg. If u get stunned, u can normaly break free + dodge role/block, before the next ability hits u. This stun is easy to handle unlike many other CCs.
Unavoidable AOE stun is easy to handle? Its "unavoidable".
It's an easier stun to counter than Petrify, or fear. Since, in most instances, a sorc stunning you with streak is now behind you and unable to follow up their stun with attacks. Whereas, an unblockable, unavoidable stun from both a DK and a NB is immediately followed by attacks because they are still facing you when they stun you.
[snip] I know both stamsorcs and magsorcs who have no problem to do follow-up attack while person is still breaking from stun. In case of stamsorcs, even with crystal precast + vate medium -> executioner, all in stun frame.
Steak more often than not puts you behind your target, which makes following with a combo nearly impossible, unless
...unless they play on PC with mouse and do 180 turn instantly. [snip]
And in magsorc you don't even need to land perfectly, you need 2 GCD of precast, streak, 180 turn into frags.
Making streak blockable is the only correct solution. Especially now, when second morph is gutted.
Making streak blockable would make streak useless.
Really? Useless? Like, nobody will pick streak if they make it blockable? Do you actually believe in what you say?
Having a stun that may not even work, that also puts you directly into the range of your opponent, on a ranged class, would make for a fairly useless stun.
So what? You say streak will not be used? [snip] It will be used even if they remove morphs, it is literally the best skill in sorc for PvP.
It is not "ranged class", stamsorcs are 90% melee. And magsorcs are stacked with everything as it is, they will survive getting their stun nerfed.
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]
Really ? I find a bunch of mag sorcs the easiest class to 1vx and that too when they run ball of lightning. Sorcs are super squishy in general.
You just haven't faced anyone good in PVP yet on your mag sorc or you might be playing in a group which possibly eliminates every challenge in competitive pvp.
[snip]
Sure let's nerf streak. Those same players will be on unkillable dlc classes next.
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on 4 August 2021 13:425 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭techprince wrote: »Like Rune Cage wasnt enough?
It absolutely isn;t enough.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.4 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »techprince wrote: »Like Rune Cage wasnt enough?
It absolutely isn;t enough.
Do you know what redundancy is?1 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭The problem is, no-one in these nerf sorc threads actually want any balance. They just don't want sorcs to be viable at all for some reason. Today it is streak, last week it was shields, three years ago it was stun on frags, next week it will be crit surge or something even more ridiculous.
So you are admitting they were overpowered as ***. And still are overloaded with all in one skills.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭techprince wrote: »The problem is, no-one in these nerf sorc threads actually want any balance. They just don't want sorcs to be viable at all for some reason. Today it is streak, last week it was shields, three years ago it was stun on frags, next week it will be crit surge or something even more ridiculous.
So you are admitting they were overpowered as ***. And still are overloaded with all in one skills.
Admitting they are overpowered? No.
Showing that all players do is ask to nerf a class they don't even understand? Yes
Stop putting words in my mouth. That seems to be all you are doing on this thread is rewording things people say to fit your agenda.7 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭techprince wrote: »The problem is, no-one in these nerf sorc threads actually want any balance. They just don't want sorcs to be viable at all for some reason. Today it is streak, last week it was shields, three years ago it was stun on frags, next week it will be crit surge or something even more ridiculous.
So you are admitting they were overpowered as ***. And still are overloaded with all in one skills.
Admitting they are overpowered? No.
Showing that all players do is ask to nerf a class they don't even understand? Yes
Stop putting words in my mouth. That seems to be all you are doing on this thread is rewording things people say to fit your agenda.
Uncritable massive shields with Minor/Major Protection at 10/30%, Stun on frags, stun on steak, stun on Rune Cage. That was the case with sorcerer. This was overpowered as hell, everyone knew this. Only the players who played them enjoyed it and defended it to the core as they didnt want and still dont want their cheese taken away from them.
[snip]
[Edit for Bait.]Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on 4 August 2021 21:042 -
Daffen✭✭✭✭[snip], no you wont die from streak/meteor/curse combo if u keep hot up and roll dodge right after streak to dodge frag proc. Frag has minimum travel time similar to bow proc from nb which was added because there was no counterplay after getting stunned cuz u couldnt avoid it. Now you can avoid it by roll dodging after breaking free. Note that blocking might not work at all times because there is a slight delay after breaking free before u can block but not with dodge.
If a sorc runs away from the fight u dont need to chase, you won the fight. Not every fight ends with the opponent dying. Streak is bad uphill/downhill, uphill because it only travels 3m sometimes and downhill because you need to wait for your character to land before using streak again.
If you decide that the sorc HAS to die then you should be able to chase them down with sprint+major expedition. Me and my friend were chasing a magsorc on stam characters. We did not have major expedition only sprint speed and was able to catch a sorc streaking 5 times in front and using invis pots multiple times. Took us about 4 attempts of finding him thru invis pot before finally beeing able to take him down.
This is coming from a stamdk main, havent played magsorc in 2 years.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 15 October 2021 12:207 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭techprince wrote: »techprince wrote: »The problem is, no-one in these nerf sorc threads actually want any balance. They just don't want sorcs to be viable at all for some reason. Today it is streak, last week it was shields, three years ago it was stun on frags, next week it will be crit surge or something even more ridiculous.
So you are admitting they were overpowered as ***. And still are overloaded with all in one skills.
Admitting they are overpowered? No.
Showing that all players do is ask to nerf a class they don't even understand? Yes
Stop putting words in my mouth. That seems to be all you are doing on this thread is rewording things people say to fit your agenda.
Uncritable massive shields with Minor/Major Protection at 10/30%, Stun on frags, stun on steak, stun on Rune Cage. That was the case with sorcerer. This was overpowered as hell, everyone knew this. Only the players who played them enjoyed it and defended it to the core as they didnt want and still dont want their cheese taken away from them.
So yes, stop spreading BS. That seems to be all you are doing on this thread.
The OP skills you described all require pressing a button. However we currently have DLC classes getting buffs and resistances on login. We also have a stealth class which has damage potential to 2 shot any spec in the game.
So yeah, I feel entitled to defend sorc. In fact, I will be happy to give a live demonstration to anyone on this forum on how OP they think their mag sorc is.
Edited by PhoenixGrey on 4 August 2021 16:278 -
AdamLAD✭✭✭✭✭As a main for 4 years. Streak needs NO adjustments. But dark deal does as it completely mitigates the ramping cost for streak for little repercussions. Thats it. Do not touch streak. We NEED it. We are NOT a class that can just stand and eat damage like other classes in most PvP situations. To compensate for the adjustment to dark deal give us some buffs in defence in our passives. We have 0 self burst heal besides a pet which can die. We have 0 defensive passives and we don't have cleanse. The only thing that kept sorcerers alive after murkmire was streak because sheilds were gutted and have been gutted further. You want to nerf streak itself? By all means do so, but you best give us our shields back.3
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jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You know, not to mention, Pirate skeleton and major/minor protection are entirely irrelevant to a discussion about sorcs. Neither buff is anywhere in a sorcs toolkit. All is found outside it. Pointing to those things and saying sorcs needed a nerf because of them is disingenuous. The fact is, even when Pirate skele was overperforming, it was still just a set. Not reliant on a sorc only wearing it. Every mag class could use the light armor shield to gain the same results. And you know what, Pirate Skele was changed. Because it was a problem with the set not with Sorcs.5 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »Sorc is not a brawler class.
Every class can have brawlers. Its gear question.
I've got to come back to this. The Sorcerer class is not designed, within the class, to be a brawler. From skills to passives, it is not designed to stand and fight toe to toe with others. It's meant to be quick and bursty and agile. Taking away the agility and quickness would make sorcs overall useless. Especially with the changes to light armor and damage taken. Especially with the nerfing of shields. Especially when the burst is the most highly telegraphed burst in the game. Sorcs are meant to be played at range and are meant to move in and out of battle quickly. That is how the class was built. Just like templar were built, from the ground up, to stand their ground and take a beating.6