sharquez wrote: »

First observe how it happens from the outside.

https://youtu.be/Q8HLKMgV_jk

Then take appropriate counter measures within your group.

Those sfx infused scenes made my day, would 10/10 play eso with this nostalgic n'wah pack lmao.

MrMazurski wrote: »

They're really annoying right now. Yesterday I was for almost 2h on Cyro. And I've been bombing with over good 15 times. At each gate, etc. This is too annoying for me and should be changed. Why is one class with this bulid able to kick 5-10 people and do the same after 2 minutes?

I don't have a bomber. I am not so interested in the style of the game. I understand its advantages, but there is just too much of it lately. You can even have 30k resistance, 30k hp and you can die anyway? Not cool

But its not one class, the two main ingredients are magicka detonation and the VD set which are both available to any class. NBs are just preferred because its so much easier to stealth up on groups to pull it off.

This is the thing though ; Bombing -Isn’t- high risk / high reward now, it’s just high reward.

In previous Metas where damage wasn’t so crazy high from stealth, it would be a higher risk to bomb a smaller group because proxy wouldn’t hit so hard with the crowd scaling and you might not get any kills, then die yourself.

But now, a bomb blade can reliably gank a solo player no problem with their zero skill combo and that is stupid imo because they also have groups covered too.

I’m all for being able to blow up zergs and disperse ball groups, but constantly getting Xv1’d by bombers who don’t even need the group scaling of proxy det to one shot someone is getting very annoying.

Not really sure what the fix is. Maybe it’s CP, maybe acuity maybe soul tether and sap should have lower base damage but higher crowd scaling like proxy? Either way it’s not a high risk play style anymore, especially when you get the mindless drones in a ball group just marching forward with a sap essence spam whilst acuity is active 😑

They'll fix bombers by giving everyone a no proc option. All these NB complaint topics never existed during no proc.

paulychan wrote: »

I wish we had detect pots or maybe some skills that can spot invis... oh, wait

or maybe enaugh players to oneshot any detected aproaching bomber ...

If you are so greedy that you stack with 10-100 on one spot you deserve to be blown up.
If you know that bombs exist just dont jump into their mouth.
Dont be so greedy and stack with 10 players on one door 3-4 are more than enaugh to rep it fast the others can scout for incoming enemys
Dont stack on a flag once again 6-8 players are enaugh to do the job. if they get bombed they should still be enaugh ppl to take the objective.
ever tried it with blocking and placing ground aoes ? works wonders most bombs wont engage into a cluster of red areas
or if you want to be nice to your group equip sentry/detect pots+ a cc and stop the bomb before it gets into your group.

There are so many ways to counter a bomb that it is astounding that players still get killed frequently by them. When i see a cluster of players take a ressource they just stand on the flag doing nothing. No hots/shields or block most of them dont even have their amor buffs up. They are asking to be blown up.

Sephyr wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

darvaria wrote: »

But I look at this as online bullying. Targeting weaker players. Just the pitiful comments of players of like "why do I suck? why do I get one shot?" This is bullying. And we KNOW that bullying is not accepted in 2021. You are letting these few players absolutely ruin this for less experienced players.

ZOS needs to fix this now. At least make it to where your defensive procs go off before getting 1 shot.

Bullying? Give me a break...

There are many counters to bombers, most people would rather complain on the forums though than actively do anything about it.

I too find their statement strange.

The thing about bombers is that they target the weakest to take down the strongest in the group if they're stacked together. Most bombers can't take down someone with a ton of health, so of course they're going to go for the weakest. That's not bullying, that's strategy. In the real world, armies use that tactic all the time. Cyrodiil is a warzone. That's something that overlapped pretty well. The same also applies with gankers. If someone is slow or not paying attention, they're going to get ganked.

But bullying? That's... A heckin' stretch of the truth.

As for actively doing anything about it, I think it's because they don't understand how the counters work. Especially when they don't sweep keeps and outposts properly. Last night I slipped into an enemy keep when the outer front door was open. My side lost, the door was repaired, but I was ganking people in that keep for almost 20 minutes. Not once did someone even think to throw flares, pop a detect potion, throw caltrops, or even bust out a magelight, AoE, SOMETHING. The NPC guards did more to counter me than people in the keep did.

Not to mention, attacking the weakest player in a group is literally the best strategy in most situations. If I am facing a group outnumbered, and you are the weakest link, I am targeting you first every encounter to remove you from the fight as quick as possible.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

They'll fix bombers by giving everyone a no proc option. All these NB complaint topics never existed during no proc.

They did because of the new cps bombing was viable in cp pvp

I started using Frozen Device on my warden healer and saved my group numerous times from bombers. It doesn't always work but when it does it's pretty satisfying when the bomber gets pulled to you before going off in the group.

RoninMB wrote: »

I started using Frozen Device on my warden healer and saved my group numerous times from bombers. It doesn't always work but when it does it's pretty satisfying when the bomber gets pulled to you before going off in the group.

I was running my magDK for a bit during MYM and chaining bombers out of groups of players is hilarious.

So is negating a bomb. Not much more satisfying than seeing the detonation pre-cast off to the side, and then dropping negate the moment they try to trigger the bomb. Can't cloak, can't do any follow up skills to aide in getting the kill.

BuildMan wrote: »

Yeah bombing is bad. Only real counter is standing back from the group and laying down flare. Even then damage is so high that one person getting tagged is a death sentence.

I ran an anti nightblade build during mym using some tools like flare, sentry, shatter soul etc.

They work but the fact cloak dodges all direct damage makes my 5 piece sentry (with a 20 second cooldown mind you) basically worthless as I still can't hit then with snipe while they spam cloak. Ah well, just gotta accept that for right now cyrodiil is about staying apart and leeching AP from the safety of the midline (cant sit back to far or else you get picked off by the stamblade lol).

Use an aoe like caltrops...

Bombers are way too strong right now. If they are designed to counter stacked players, why can they instantly kill solo players too? Oh thats right, because the combo is broken. Specifically MagBlade, who can spam invis so you cant see them coming.

I have always found it interesting that in a PvP zone literally designed around MASS faction warfare, some players talk about large groups as if they are terrible human beings... News flash, large groups are always part of this type of pvp format, and they are not bad for the game, they are the game. I have never played a game where players felt so entitled to be able to wipe whole groups solo. In GW2 you have to be really good to 1vX even a group of 4 or 5. In WoW you have to be insanely good to 1vX a group of 5. In ESO, people EXPECT to be able to wipe whole raids of 12+ players... even defend blatantly broken mechanics like VD. Its very... odd.

If any class can do it, why are 90% of bombers MagBlades?

You mentioned VD being useless 1v1. Thats my point... the build is made to wipe groups yet it can still insta kill a single target, thats not balanced. NO build in the game should be able to instantly kill you in 1 global, even when you have 30k+ HP. Some builds can do it with a combo like sub assault + ultimate, but thats not from stealth out of nowhere... you can read that.

jaws343 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

darvaria wrote: »

But I look at this as online bullying. Targeting weaker players. Just the pitiful comments of players of like "why do I suck? why do I get one shot?" This is bullying. And we KNOW that bullying is not accepted in 2021. You are letting these few players absolutely ruin this for less experienced players.

ZOS needs to fix this now. At least make it to where your defensive procs go off before getting 1 shot.

Bullying? Give me a break...

There are many counters to bombers, most people would rather complain on the forums though than actively do anything about it.

I too find their statement strange.

The thing about bombers is that they target the weakest to take down the strongest in the group if they're stacked together. Most bombers can't take down someone with a ton of health, so of course they're going to go for the weakest. That's not bullying, that's strategy. In the real world, armies use that tactic all the time. Cyrodiil is a warzone. That's something that overlapped pretty well. The same also applies with gankers. If someone is slow or not paying attention, they're going to get ganked.

But bullying? That's... A heckin' stretch of the truth.

As for actively doing anything about it, I think it's because they don't understand how the counters work. Especially when they don't sweep keeps and outposts properly. Last night I slipped into an enemy keep when the outer front door was open. My side lost, the door was repaired, but I was ganking people in that keep for almost 20 minutes. Not once did someone even think to throw flares, pop a detect potion, throw caltrops, or even bust out a magelight, AoE, SOMETHING. The NPC guards did more to counter me than people in the keep did.

Not to mention, attacking the weakest player in a group is literally the best strategy in most situations. If I am facing a group outnumbered, and you are the weakest link, I am targeting you first every encounter to remove you from the fight as quick as possible.

Precisely. That was something that I learned really fast once I started bombing again was that it's easier to go for that weak link to get the chain reaction I was looking for. Many like the OP get complacent in groups, thinking that the rest of the group will run the counters for them, when most of the time the groups are just as complacent in my experience. So instead of employing those counters, people ask for abilities like Magicka Detonation (and it's morphs) as well as Vicious Death to get nerfed because those are the tools we were given to deal with groups. That's why they're not capped. Any good ball group knows to spread out and when I'm flipping a flag and I see people not spreading out? I get out of there and I get out of there fast.

Also, reading further down people also forget about Invisibility pots. You can whip up some of those with immovable as well for added protection. That's how I used to bomb on my sorc. Get behind some cover, throw on proxy, pop the potion, get in range to streak toward the group, time it just right to get the stun in and wipe out who I can before I streak back out. By the time they figure out what happened I'm usually already gone.

NoSoup wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Just curious, what exactly has improved bombers this patch compared to bombing before noproc?

Anything?

Or is it just that players got complacent during noproc making it easier to bomb?

A lot of things:

A. Big free base stats for all players (e.g. 1000 Weapon/Spell Damage + Max Resources) - provides larger base of damage to multiply against Critical Damage modifiers.

B. Proc set scaling enabled - so that Vicious Death hits harder than it ever could before.

C. Vicious Death range buffed in the last patch - radius of the set is now increased by ~60%.

D. CP and other changes that weakened Critical Resistance enhanced sources of Critical Damage modifiers.

This is a lie, the Proc set scaling has made it harder to achieve the same # in terms of damage than the previous patch due to how high the spell damage requirement was set. You need over 6k SD to get close to the numbers VD had previous patch.

More than anything its complacency. I don't know if its Midyear Mayhem causing it that has brought in a lot of inexperienced players or players in general just got use to no bombers but its been YEARS since I've seen the number of tight balls asking to be bombed that I've seen the last few nights on PC|NA AEST prime time.

Please try to bring some actual evidence the next time you attempt to state that something is "a lie."

All of those points are demonstrably true except for Vicious Death scaling better on a non-Spell Damage race that's also still using a Lightning Staff. Other combinations, such as a Dual-Wield Dark Elf, can easily hit 6100+ Spell Damage and increasingly popular Stamina bombers using Lightning Destro have no problems whatsoever clearing 6600 Weapon Damage on basically any race.

Apart from that minor book-keeping quibble, everything else is simply stating facts:

• The radius of VD has been increased - check the patch notes. More targets hit = more damage done = more kills.
• 1000 base Weapon and Spell Damage applied toward the base damage of Critical Strikes drastically increases the downstream damage of those hits after Critical Damage scaling is finished with it. Again, this happened - check the patch notes.
• There are now more ways to increase Critical Damage than from the "before times" especially if you play in CP. These include small buffs to Khajiits and Axes as well as a CP situation where you may stack +25% Critical Damage but only counter it with -10% Critical Resistance, which creates a deficit of +15% Critical Damage in favor of the bomber. These are all real things - check the patch notes.

Of these things, the single largest contributor is likely the 1000 base Weapon and Spell Damage. That scales all of your damage, from the initial Soul Tether to the Proxy to clean-up Sap Essences absolutely to the moon and back again, which makes it much easier for a bomber to begin their Vicious Death chain-reaction. It also better explains how people can get solo-bombed, a situation that removes the contribution of Vicious Death entirely from the equation.

However, don't sleep on the impact that increasing the radius of Vicious Death from 4 meters to 5 meters has had. The total area covered by a blast was relatively small before and it required very tight stacking in order to create a chain-reaction. 5 meters is significantly more forgiving for the bomber and even groups not hard-stacking are often in range of several group members at any given time.