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Stamblade is just absurd in CP 2.0
Fawn4287
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If you set foot in cyrodil chances are you’ve already seen how insane stamblade performance is this patch. If the server performance isn’t absolute garbage and you aren’t charging head first in to ball groups stamblade is just outright too overpowered. First off cloak, my god its gone so beyond frustrating to deal with this skill from day one, its the ultimate utility skill, allowing you to 1. Evade all incoming single target damage that was going to hit long before cloak was even used. 2. Work as a semi cleanse if not better, mitigating all incoming dot damage until you exit stealth, whilst simultaneously allowing you to heal and not removing all debuffs allowing you to keep up the survival instincts passive and 3. Guarantees the next hit is a crit whilst usually CCing the target from stealth, all from the press of 1 button. People will say “x,y,z counters cloak” and that is true to some degree however not everyone is running around on a magplar or spin to win warden and nightblades all run an expedition so actually hitting them once and they then hit shade, expedition cloak and good luck finding them. For those who say detect pots or magelight/expert hunter, not only are those things incredibly inconsistent and small ranged but why should such a specific thing be used to counter realistically 1 skill on 1 class, using a detect pot for a measly 12 seconds of detect, whilst a stamblade can dump a tri pot and sprint for hills until he knows you are out. The absolute most major issue is that cloak is far to good as both an offensive combo starter and a defensive lifesaver, remove the quasi cleanse from the skill (as its not even listed as an effect on the skill)
It used to require a high degree of resource management and used to be what kept a fairly high skill gap between the ganking 2 button potato to best stamblade on the server to deal with both cloak and shade on a stam toon. However CP 2.0 has given everyone 150 raw mag regen from CP and easily a 15k+ mag pool, meaning especially with tri pots mag sustain on a stamblade is childs play allowing you to essentially spam cloak multiple times on a stam toon with little to no repercussions, in the old system a stamblade goes for 2 or 3 bad cloaks and if they aren’t good out of cloak they were toast, nowadays this is basically a non issue, avoiding the pure AOE builds is the only real concern now. If anything cloak should include some built in mechanic like streak to discourage the continued spamming of the skill and place more emphasis on mastering the use of shade, helping to seperate the good from the bad.
The next issue is the damage, I know many run 3 damage sets but its still just outright ridiculous. Not that I’m one for the pure tank meta by any means but its so difficult to counter getting a heavy attack, incap followed by relentless soon after with the damage it offers this patch. Even with a defensive set of in heavy because of things such as a guaranteed crit with an absurd load of crit damage stacking on a 75 cost ult that can easily hit 10-15k that then increases the damage against you by 20% for 6 seconds is just outright insane. How can 75 cost ult (can CC at 120) offering a killing potential halfway to onslaught be considered fair? Why do abilities like flawless dawnbreaker give a set weapon damage whilst this gives such a monstrous % in an update where major and minor beserk combined don’t even offer that?
Edited by Fawn4287 on 3 July 2021 17:08 It used to require a high degree of resource management and used to be what kept a fairly high skill gap between the ganking 2 button potato to best stamblade on the server to deal with both cloak and shade on a stam toon. However CP 2.0 has given everyone 150 raw mag regen from CP and easily a 15k+ mag pool, meaning especially with tri pots mag sustain on a stamblade is childs play allowing you to essentially spam cloak multiple times on a stam toon with little to no repercussions, in the old system a stamblade goes for 2 or 3 bad cloaks and if they aren’t good out of cloak they were toast, nowadays this is basically a non issue, avoiding the pure AOE builds is the only real concern now. If anything cloak should include some built in mechanic like streak to discourage the continued spamming of the skill and place more emphasis on mastering the use of shade, helping to seperate the good from the bad.
The next issue is the damage, I know many run 3 damage sets but its still just outright ridiculous. Not that I’m one for the pure tank meta by any means but its so difficult to counter getting a heavy attack, incap followed by relentless soon after with the damage it offers this patch. Even with a defensive set of in heavy because of things such as a guaranteed crit with an absurd load of crit damage stacking on a 75 cost ult that can easily hit 10-15k that then increases the damage against you by 20% for 6 seconds is just outright insane. How can 75 cost ult (can CC at 120) offering a killing potential halfway to onslaught be considered fair? Why do abilities like flawless dawnbreaker give a set weapon damage whilst this gives such a monstrous % in an update where major and minor beserk combined don’t even offer that?
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Kaysha✭✭✭✭detect pots work perfectly fine for me. nearly 100% kill chance. The good thing is, that the nightblade does not know that you used a detect pot. Most just keep spamming cloak until it´s too late.8 -
Rhaegar75✭✭✭✭✭detect pots work perfectly fine for me. nearly 100% kill chance. The good thing is, that the nightblade does not know that you used a detect pot. Most just keep spamming cloak until it´s too late.
I totally agree!!!
Just to clarify: I don’t play NBs and their play style truly pisses me off but please leave NBs alone: they are not OP at all but, understandably, they can hurt you a lot especially if played well.
Still...nothing shocking at all.
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Andre_Noir✭✭✭✭Be honest already: it's not about incap or cloak - it's about that both of them bring target to... TA-DA ! to execute range of braindead overpowered stamina executes. If only you are the luckiest man that found a NB using Assassin's Blade as execute5 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭A vast majority of OP's post is untrue or an exaggeration.
The skill gap between a casual NB player and someone like me who has only played a NB for years (save getting tier 1 on others) is massive. So yeah, someone who has mastered the class knows all the tricks of the trade and how to avoid countermeasures. But your average NB will fail to kill more often than not and die immediately after.
Dots and status effects do cancel shadow disguise. Calling it a cleanse is just silly. I WISH it purged lol.
I have 19k mag. If a dot is on me and I have to spam SD, I can do 3 or 4 at most in the span of a few seconds. And, you know, if you use a detect pot SD won't work at all but I won't know that, so I'll keep hitting SD till I'm out or safe or dead.
The guaranteed crit from SD is buggy af. Often it doesn't work. And even if it does, it's usually ambush that I'm hitting, not incap. Then I'm relying on my 39% crit chance because that nerfed it.
Also SD doesn't CC. Ambush does. Incap does if you have 120+ ultimate. Has nothing to do with SD.
What you're usually dying to are the follow-up attacks because of Balorg. Because of that we try not to use incap until at least 150 ultimate.
I understand that if you have never played NB before you might view them as this super charged thing. But you're wrong. Try playing one.
Oh and it's not like a stamblade is wiping a group unless you're all running pve gear with 22k health and even then it's not happening. Solo NBs are there to get kills and AP. The rest of us are supporting a group, doing what we can for the war effort.Edited by DrSlaughtr on 3 July 2021 21:15I drink and I stream things.12 -
baselesschart✭✭✭So many posts that nightblade damage is so high this patch, warms my heart honestly. To be all that bursty, stamblades are also super squishy, I'd argue its among the squishiest specs you can play and it is unforgiving to unexperienced players, to say it has a high learning curve is an understatement. And as someone that has played nightblade since day one, I can tell you that right now in pvp, my cloak does not cleanse me from any effects, it actually used to but they removed that, but warden can have a cleanse that costs absolutely no resources, makes sense right? Logically speaking, nightblade should be the hardest hitting class in the game, and not even by a margin, and by being high damage they take a lot of damage so I don't see the issue here.A fairly mediocre nightblade that occasionally kills people6
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Raeyleigh✭✭✭Nb is both the easiest and hardest class to play at once.
Its more forgiving for new players because you get free out-of-jail cards with cloak and shade, so you dont have to die for every mistake you make. And ganking is a very low effort, easy and low risk way of getting a lot of kills.
Currently it feels like cyro and ic are populated by 30-50% nbs, most of which are gankers of some sort.
Both according to my death recaps on ~25k armory / ~2k crit resi, and my own experience on my nb, I would need about 35k health to not get randomly oneshot by nightblades.
Talk about what is driving everyone to tank up so much atm.6 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
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Technically they can become one of the tankiest classes in the game and still have naturally high damage. Not saying they need a nerf or anything, but I just wanted to point that out.baselesschart wrote: »So many posts that nightblade damage is so high this patch, warms my heart honestly. To be all that bursty, stamblades are also super squishy2 -
baselesschart✭✭✭Technically they can become one of the tankiest classes in the game and still have naturally high damage. Not saying they need a nerf or anything, but I just wanted to point that out.
I'm well aware that they can be tanky. I've fought many brawlerblades, and they do a decent amount of damage, but its not enough for them to kill me if I don't want to die. Nightblade passives can only carry them so far if they want to build tanky. I've never been bursted by a brawlerblade.A fairly mediocre nightblade that occasionally kills people2 -
Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »A vast majority of OP's post is untrue or an exaggeration.
The skill gap between a casual NB player and someone like me who has only played a NB for years (save getting tier 1 on others) is massive. So yeah, someone who has mastered the class knows all the tricks of the trade and how to avoid countermeasures. But your average NB will fail to kill more often than not and die immediately after.
Dots and status effects do cancel shadow disguise. Calling it a cleanse is just silly. I WISH it purged lol.
I have 19k mag. If a dot is on me and I have to spam SD, I can do 3 or 4 at most in the span of a few seconds. And, you know, if you use a detect pot SD won't work at all but I won't know that, so I'll keep hitting SD till I'm out or safe or dead.
The guaranteed crit from SD is buggy af. Often it doesn't work. And even if it does, it's usually ambush that I'm hitting, not incap. Then I'm relying on my 39% crit chance because that nerfed it.
Also SD doesn't CC. Ambush does. Incap does if you have 120+ ultimate. Has nothing to do with SD.
What you're usually dying to are the follow-up attacks because of Balorg. Because of that we try not to use incap until at least 150 ultimate.
I understand that if you have never played NB before you might view them as this super charged thing. But you're wrong. Try playing one.
Oh and it's not like a stamblade is wiping a group unless you're all running pve gear with 22k health and even then it's not happening. Solo NBs are there to get kills and AP. The rest of us are supporting a group, doing what we can for the war effort.
Surprise attack stuns from stealth, ambush stuns from stealth, incap can CCs, thats literally three quarters of the offensive toolkit stuns , half of which is from stealth means it has everything to do with shadowy disguise. Nightblades do not take damage from DOTs whilst cloak is active, that is the major issue. It doesn’t say anything in the skill description along the lines of “whilst cloak persists do not recieve any incoming DOT damage” yet it does. How can cloak not act like a semi cleanse if it nullifies all incoming single target attacks and all active DOTs? I don’t know of any other skill that behaves similar to this, other than a cleanse.
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Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭[snip] You get hit by an Incap or a Will and you'll just block and heal back to full health. Done. The cast time/min travel time even makes sure that you can break a CC before said attack will hit you. Stunning with SA and hitting you with a follow up Incap is straight up not possible outside of lag if your opponent reacts properly.
And dot builds counter Nbs, just for your information. All you have to do is to block cast your dots on the Nb when they go offensive on you and they'll be on perma defense. This "ClOaK cOuNtErS dOt BuIlDs" argument is completely nonsense and people who claim this are usually not playing a Nb or aren't good at the game (because if they'd play a Nb and would fight against a good mag dk they'd realise that their argument is not true).
[snip] They nerfed Dark Cloak and they nerfed minor maim which made Dark Cloak builds simply unviable and spamming invis cloak is the only thing which the class can do right now. Nbs build squishy with only damage sets and only 4 offensive cps because the class needs to pass burst checks in order to kill people since the toolkit got nerfed so much that well rounded builds don't work on it anymore.
If Nb is so op why does the class has no success in duels? Because the dmg is predictable and avoidable (block negates everything a Nb throws at you, it even gives you 100% crit dmg reduction). It has a lot of bad and counter match ups and is squishy as well. It doesn't have any pressure since Poison Injection got nerfed and Defile did get removed.
You don't even make suggestions on how to balance the class. Like giving them a strong class dot, some counters to healing/block/dodge and giving them a good class heal and then nerf invis Cloak and burst. [snip]
Edit: If you bother Nb so much then use detect poisons...
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 4 July 2021 18:12I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.6 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
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Technically they can become one of the tankiest classes in the game and still have naturally high damage. Not saying they need a nerf or anything, but I just wanted to point that out.baselesschart wrote: »So many posts that nightblade damage is so high this patch, warms my heart honestly. To be all that bursty, stamblades are also super squishy
Yes and no. It's hard to kill a Nb which plays defensively but the Nb will also have a very short offensive window when forced into defense unlike tanky builds who can go offensive while outtanking a lot of dmg.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »A vast majority of OP's post is untrue or an exaggeration.
The skill gap between a casual NB player and someone like me who has only played a NB for years (save getting tier 1 on others) is massive. So yeah, someone who has mastered the class knows all the tricks of the trade and how to avoid countermeasures. But your average NB will fail to kill more often than not and die immediately after.
Dots and status effects do cancel shadow disguise. Calling it a cleanse is just silly. I WISH it purged lol.
I have 19k mag. If a dot is on me and I have to spam SD, I can do 3 or 4 at most in the span of a few seconds. And, you know, if you use a detect pot SD won't work at all but I won't know that, so I'll keep hitting SD till I'm out or safe or dead.
The guaranteed crit from SD is buggy af. Often it doesn't work. And even if it does, it's usually ambush that I'm hitting, not incap. Then I'm relying on my 39% crit chance because that nerfed it.
Also SD doesn't CC. Ambush does. Incap does if you have 120+ ultimate. Has nothing to do with SD.
What you're usually dying to are the follow-up attacks because of Balorg. Because of that we try not to use incap until at least 150 ultimate.
I understand that if you have never played NB before you might view them as this super charged thing. But you're wrong. Try playing one.
Oh and it's not like a stamblade is wiping a group unless you're all running pve gear with 22k health and even then it's not happening. Solo NBs are there to get kills and AP. The rest of us are supporting a group, doing what we can for the war effort.
My vote is for exaggeration, mainly because it's obvious the clear counters to much of their problem aren't being used in their particular situations. Meanwhile most effective groups can clear out a nightblade problem in a few minutes. Your bolded statement is extremely true as well. More over, it also drives me up the wall that people aren't using Radiant Magelight to counter stuns from stealth. That's an NB's opening, if they can't STUN you, most of their gank attempt can get immediately shut down. There's also immovable pots, stealth detect pots, AoE, it's just the same thread as every nerf NB thread — except it's by a different OP and there's mildly different wording.Edited by Sephyr on 4 July 2021 09:225 -
Ocelot9x✭✭✭✭✭As a Stam dk i have not many problems 1v1 Stam nb. Of course is annoying always swap to detect pots or spamming aoe to reveal them just to see them cloak again especially, as op highlighted, with new cp system you have nearly unending Magicka.
The real issue is when kiting/playing outnumbered and suddenly getting hit by a 16k assassin will (pariah+nord, over 37k resistances) or, even worse, getting 100-0 by a magblade ganker (not bomber,ganker).
It has no counterplay, you cant be blocking the whole fight,audio comes out after the damage from stealth and you can't have 100% uptime on detect pots, especially while fighting other classes.
Ganking must be nerfed for an healthier game, as everyone now needs to build for preemptive defenses to survive being ganked (you don't need a lot of damage to kill a ganker if you survive the first burst) so we have pariah as the most common set and stalemates when you encounter another class. But you can't nerf ganking before buffing Magicka nb kit, because its extremely frustrating not playing one specced toward ganking as it's extremely underpowered if played normally8 -
NagualV✭✭✭✭The real issue is when kiting/playing outnumbered and suddenly getting hit by a 16k assassin will (pariah+nord, over 37k resistances) or, even worse, getting 100-0 by a magblade ganker (not bomber,ganker).
It has no counterplay, you cant be blocking the whole fight,audio comes out after the damage from stealth and you can't have 100% uptime on detect pots, especially while fighting other classes.
Ganking must be nerfed for an healthier game, as everyone now needs to build for preemptive defenses to survive being ganked (you don't need a lot of damage to kill a ganker if you survive the first burst)
You cant nerf a class based on the fact that they may gank you when you're fighting outnumbered. It almost sounds as if you want NB nerfed because you want to 1vx with impunity. It doesnt work that way.
I see too many people(seems its primarily people who play brawlers/tankier styles) who dont recognize there are OTHER valid, legitimate playstyles apart from their own.
Like it or not, there is a percentage of players who enjoy stealth/cloak/shade playstyle. Subsets of this style of play include gankers and bombers. As others have said countless times, once you pin them down, they are the squishiest of classes. It's not easy at all to play stamblade or magblade at a high level.5 -
Ocelot9x✭✭✭✭✭The real issue is when kiting/playing outnumbered and suddenly getting hit by a 16k assassin will (pariah+nord, over 37k resistances) or, even worse, getting 100-0 by a magblade ganker (not bomber,ganker).
It has no counterplay, you cant be blocking the whole fight,audio comes out after the damage from stealth and you can't have 100% uptime on detect pots, especially while fighting other classes.
Ganking must be nerfed for an healthier game, as everyone now needs to build for preemptive defenses to survive being ganked (you don't need a lot of damage to kill a ganker if you survive the first burst)
You cant nerf a class based on the fact that they may gank you when you're fighting outnumbered. It almost sounds as if you want NB nerfed because you want to 1vx with impunity. It doesnt work that way.
I see too many people(seems its primarily people who play brawlers/tankier styles) who dont recognize there are OTHER valid, legitimate playstyles apart from their own.
Like it or not, there is a percentage of players who enjoy stealth/cloak/shade playstyle. Subsets of this style of play include gankers and bombers. As others have said countless times, once you pin them down, they are the squishiest of classes. It's not easy at all to play stamblade or magblade at a high level.
It's about counterplay. Balance means everything has some sort of reasonable counterplay. Ganking has literally 0 counterplay besides Building tankyness, then if everyone run tanky builds the whole pvp suffer because yes, you can kill gankers but vs other classes, who are too forced to build for mitigation, you are forced in endless stalemates.
Also, why people think it's difficult to gank? We made a gank build with some guildies and learning a combo+shades out takes like 2 hours7 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭If you set foot in cyrodil chances are you’ve already seen how insane stamblade performance is this patch. If the server performance isn’t absolute garbage and you aren’t charging head first in to ball groups stamblade is just outright too overpowered. First off cloak, my god its gone so beyond frustrating to deal with this skill from day one, its the ultimate utility skill, allowing you to 1. Evade all incoming single target damage that was going to hit long before cloak was even used. 2. Work as a semi cleanse if not better, mitigating all incoming dot damage until you exit stealth, whilst simultaneously allowing you to heal and not removing all debuffs allowing you to keep up the survival instincts passive and 3. Guarantees the next hit is a crit whilst usually CCing the target from stealth, all from the press of 1 button. People will say “x,y,z counters cloak” and that is true to some degree however not everyone is running around on a magplar or spin to win warden and nightblades all run an expedition so actually hitting them once and they then hit shade, expedition cloak and good luck finding them. For those who say detect pots or magelight/expert hunter, not only are those things incredibly inconsistent and small ranged but why should such a specific thing be used to counter realistically 1 skill on 1 class, using a detect pot for a measly 12 seconds of detect, whilst a stamblade can dump a tri pot and sprint for hills until he knows you are out. The absolute most major issue is that cloak is far to good as both an offensive combo starter and a defensive lifesaver, remove the quasi cleanse from the skill (as its not even listed as an effect on the skill)
It used to require a high degree of resource management and used to be what kept a fairly high skill gap between the ganking 2 button potato to best stamblade on the server to deal with both cloak and shade on a stam toon. However CP 2.0 has given everyone 150 raw mag regen from CP and easily a 15k+ mag pool, meaning especially with tri pots mag sustain on a stamblade is childs play allowing you to essentially spam cloak multiple times on a stam toon with little to no repercussions, in the old system a stamblade goes for 2 or 3 bad cloaks and if they aren’t good out of cloak they were toast, nowadays this is basically a non issue, avoiding the pure AOE builds is the only real concern now. If anything cloak should include some built in mechanic like streak to discourage the continued spamming of the skill and place more emphasis on mastering the use of shade, helping to seperate the good from the bad.
The next issue is the damage, I know many run 3 damage sets but its still just outright ridiculous. Not that I’m one for the pure tank meta by any means but its so difficult to counter getting a heavy attack, incap followed by relentless soon after with the damage it offers this patch. Even with a defensive set of in heavy because of things such as a guaranteed crit with an absurd load of crit damage stacking on a 75 cost ult that can easily hit 10-15k that then increases the damage against you by 20% for 6 seconds is just outright insane. How can 75 cost ult (can CC at 120) offering a killing potential halfway to onslaught be considered fair? Why do abilities like flawless dawnbreaker give a set weapon damage whilst this gives such a monstrous % in an update where major and minor beserk combined don’t even offer that?
I'm a vampire magblade with only about 530 CP. The cost of cloak seems to be fair to me. Not everyone has max CP.
Also, dawnbreaker really really hurts!
I don't know what it is, but I swear my skills don't fire all the time when I push the buttons. I find it very hard to even land a soul harvest unless the opponent is distracted because they're fighting somebody else. Most of the time the only thing I can land is ranged attacks like swallow soul and impale.
I've tried lotus fan + concealed weapon and as soon as I teleport it's like I go through the opponent so I can't land the concealed weapon. Better off just hitting from afar while following a zerg.1 -
Udrath✭✭✭✭OP is right. Stealth for stamina is way easier than before
Every stamina class has the potential to do stupid damage with vateshraan 2h but stamblades have it the easiest for sure without it... I’m seeing 12k incaps and 17k executioners in crafted sets...if you think they’re balanced you’re wrong. The whole pvp is turned upside down with healing stacking and damage through the roof. Miss the days when everyone was around 20k hp...pick a damage, sustain, defense....now = damage or tank healer/disruptor/support aka a proxy bot. Nerf all the classes and let sets fill the gaps.3 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
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Surprise attack stuns from stealth, ambush stuns from stealth, incap can CCs, thats literally three quarters of the offensive toolkit stuns , half of which is from stealth means it has everything to do with shadowy disguise. Nightblades do not take damage from DOTs whilst cloak is active, that is the major issue. It doesn’t say anything in the skill description along the lines of “whilst cloak persists do not recieve any incoming DOT damage” yet it does. How can cloak not act like a semi cleanse if it nullifies all incoming single target attacks and all active DOTs? I don’t know of any other skill that behaves similar to this, other than a cleanse.
I said shadow disguise doesn't CC, because that's what was stated.
Yes those skills have the potential to cc, but you can't CC twice in a row let alone three times. Run Slippery. Break free for nothing and roll BACKWARDS through them. You just avoided most of my damage.
[snip]
NBs are equalizers but usually they're only slowing you down not actually stopping groups on their own. Now a NB group can do damage but you don't see those often, and those you do are usually bombers right now.
Seriously, were talking about a playstyle that's 99% single target damage AND ON TOP OF THAT the game warns you that I'm coming! Incap makes a very loud sound before it hits. You have plenty of time to break free AND roll dodge.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 6 July 2021 13:28I drink and I stream things.5 -
ArgonianAustin✭✭✭✭I run darloc brae on my stamblade and torc mythic, i also have 0 penetration. I can perma stealth and honestly ive been using darloc so long i dont know if could live with out it, so use to crouching while in battle now on my backbar. i have 2 trainee and 2 agility with zole monster set, kinda all over the place but i love it too much. i have to use the two-hander ult so i can do some damage to good players otherwise i can only target the questers. Ive been encountering really tanky nightblades that deal great damage, they always have the healing stealth cloak. Guess using that really makes you tanky.Just a Lizard Man that plays ESO with my twin brother khajiit_kyle1 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭master_vanargand wrote: »Sorcerer, Warden, Necromancer, real OP class.
exactly4 -
JayKwellen✭✭✭✭✭Stamblades are fine. This is the first time in a long time they've actually been able to, you know, actually do nightblade things fairly successfully.
Let's not forget that the class still suffers from incredibly poor sustained damage, 100% of its burst is both obvious and easily avoidable, and it remains completely useless in group play.
On the other hand, I wouldn't at all mind surprise attack's stun being changed to function like dizzy swing (once per off balance vs. every seven seconds), but given how the class plays and the changes made to heavy attacks/stealth I still understand why it is the way it is.
Still, they're fine. Leave em alone. And buff magblade.2 -
rbfrgsp✭✭✭✭✭There is a simple confirmation bias at play if you think certain builds (in this case NB gankers) are overpowered.
Unlike NPCs, players have free will.
They select their targets.
If you die to one NB, chances are, you'll die to a lot of NBs.
If you are 300cp and/or 27k health and/or running around in a robe, then any one of those things is inviting a ganker to test your defences.
If you are all three of those things, you'll be 2-hit combo'd into the floor every time.
It's your build. That's on you.Edited by rbfrgsp on 6 July 2021 12:541 -
Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »A vast majority of OP's post is untrue or an exaggeration.
The skill gap between a casual NB player and someone like me who has only played a NB for years (save getting tier 1 on others) is massive. So yeah, someone who has mastered the class knows all the tricks of the trade and how to avoid countermeasures. But your average NB will fail to kill more often than not and die immediately after.
Dots and status effects do cancel shadow disguise. Calling it a cleanse is just silly. I WISH it purged lol.
I have 19k mag. If a dot is on me and I have to spam SD, I can do 3 or 4 at most in the span of a few seconds. And, you know, if you use a detect pot SD won't work at all but I won't know that, so I'll keep hitting SD till I'm out or safe or dead.
The guaranteed crit from SD is buggy af. Often it doesn't work. And even if it does, it's usually ambush that I'm hitting, not incap. Then I'm relying on my 39% crit chance because that nerfed it.
Also SD doesn't CC. Ambush does. Incap does if you have 120+ ultimate. Has nothing to do with SD.
What you're usually dying to are the follow-up attacks because of Balorg. Because of that we try not to use incap until at least 150 ultimate.
I understand that if you have never played NB before you might view them as this super charged thing. But you're wrong. Try playing one.
Oh and it's not like a stamblade is wiping a group unless you're all running pve gear with 22k health and even then it's not happening. Solo NBs are there to get kills and AP. The rest of us are supporting a group, doing what we can for the war effort.
Surprise attack stuns from stealth, ambush stuns from stealth, incap can CCs, thats literally three quarters of the offensive toolkit stuns , half of which is from stealth means it has everything to do with shadowy disguise. Nightblades do not take damage from DOTs whilst cloak is active, that is the major issue. It doesn’t say anything in the skill description along the lines of “whilst cloak persists do not recieve any incoming DOT damage” yet it does. How can cloak not act like a semi cleanse if it nullifies all incoming single target attacks and all active DOTs? I don’t know of any other skill that behaves similar to this, other than a cleanse.
(1) Every "Melee" skill in the game magicka and stamina alike, to include light and heavy attacks, stuns from stealth.
(2) Many ultimates include a CC mechanic, Like both the mages and fighter guilds and most classes have access to one.
(3) Stealth and Invisibility are two totally separate states, they are mutually exclusive.
(4) Surprise attack and concealed weapon were changed a few patches ago and only stun from the "flank" They no longer require "Stealth" or "Invisibility"
(5) Ambush only stuns from "stealth" like all "melee" abilities, but not from invisibility.
(6) Cloak does indeed "often" act as a foux cleanse. It can be quite hit or miss, but stops as soon as the NB takes damage.
This is a left over function from when Dark cloak was the original morph that acted this way and hardly anyone used the crit morph. They rolled the functionality of both morphs to shadowy and created a totally new Dark Cloak morph.
So it's not a major issue really as most NB's since release chose the cleansing morph of cloak anyway, as it's way more valuable than a guaranteed crit from invisibility, when it works.
However I have to point out your knowledge of the "Stealth" and "invisibility" game mechanics could use a brush up and your NB class knowledge is severely outdated.
As to the OP's topic, I don't think stamblades are OP this patch. Mageblades hit harder, can cloak more and have access to better heals/shields and can swap from bombing to single target with a simple on the fly gear swap
Here since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.2 -
rbfrgsp✭✭✭✭✭The real issue is when kiting/playing outnumbered and suddenly getting hit by a 16k assassin will (pariah+nord, over 37k resistances) or, even worse, getting 100-0 by a magblade ganker (not bomber,ganker).
It has no counterplay, you cant be blocking the whole fight,audio comes out after the damage from stealth and you can't have 100% uptime on detect pots, especially while fighting other classes.
Ganking must be nerfed for an healthier game, as everyone now needs to build for preemptive defenses to survive being ganked (you don't need a lot of damage to kill a ganker if you survive the first burst)
You cant nerf a class based on the fact that they may gank you when you're fighting outnumbered. It almost sounds as if you want NB nerfed because you want to 1vx with impunity. It doesnt work that way.
I see too many people(seems its primarily people who play brawlers/tankier styles) who dont recognize there are OTHER valid, legitimate playstyles apart from their own.
Like it or not, there is a percentage of players who enjoy stealth/cloak/shade playstyle. Subsets of this style of play include gankers and bombers. As others have said countless times, once you pin them down, they are the squishiest of classes. It's not easy at all to play stamblade or magblade at a high level.
It's about counterplay. Balance means everything has some sort of reasonable counterplay. Ganking has literally 0 counterplay besides Building tankyness
So.....it has counterplay then? One you wilfully chose to not build into (your choice, and a perfectly acceptable choice, too). But your choice of build makes you better at some things and weaker at others.
Don't look for reasons to "repair" the game every time a player deliberately chooses to target your own chosen weaknesses. Because it sounds like this:
"I died. This game must be broken."
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Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭The real issue is when kiting/playing outnumbered and suddenly getting hit by a 16k assassin will (pariah+nord, over 37k resistances) or, even worse, getting 100-0 by a magblade ganker (not bomber,ganker).
It has no counterplay, you cant be blocking the whole fight,audio comes out after the damage from stealth and you can't have 100% uptime on detect pots, especially while fighting other classes.
Ganking must be nerfed for an healthier game, as everyone now needs to build for preemptive defenses to survive being ganked (you don't need a lot of damage to kill a ganker if you survive the first burst)
You cant nerf a class based on the fact that they may gank you when you're fighting outnumbered. It almost sounds as if you want NB nerfed because you want to 1vx with impunity. It doesnt work that way.
I see too many people(seems its primarily people who play brawlers/tankier styles) who dont recognize there are OTHER valid, legitimate playstyles apart from their own.
Like it or not, there is a percentage of players who enjoy stealth/cloak/shade playstyle. Subsets of this style of play include gankers and bombers. As others have said countless times, once you pin them down, they are the squishiest of classes. It's not easy at all to play stamblade or magblade at a high level.
It's about counterplay. Balance means everything has some sort of reasonable counterplay. Ganking has literally 0 counterplay besides Building tankyness
So.....it has counterplay then? One you wilfully chose to not build into (your choice, and a perfectly acceptable choice, too). But your choice of build makes you better at some things and weaker at others.
Don't look for reasons to "repair" the game every time a player deliberately chooses to target your own chosen weaknesses. Because it sounds like this:
"I died. This game must be broken."
The issue isn’t dying to nightblades, it’s incredibly long drawn out fights that would e over in moments if it wasn’t for cloak being so overpowered both offensively and defensively by stopping DOT damage and allowing the nighblade to essentially pick when and if they want to reengage in the fight. 1 skill shouldn’t have so much utility tied to it.0 -
rbfrgsp✭✭✭✭✭Build a nightblade and try and crutch on cloak. Come back and tell us how many times you died in the first hour's playing.6
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P4RM3S4N✭I agree that cloak is one of the most broken skills in the game. It's the only skill that lets you leave the fight immediately. There is nothing else in this game that is that defensively strong. The fact that people carry around a potion specifically for that 1 skill on that 1 class shows that. I play stamblade and 2 magblades, it isn't a matter of not understanding it, it's the opposite.5
