Sanctum74 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Thanos7895 wrote: »

The combination of buffs to attacks to stealth and Viscous Death has created a bombers paradise. Now, all we have is groups of stealth bombers while we siege. You couple this with the reduction in group number from 24 has made groups trying to play the map as was intended a very undesirable experience.

ZOS - I would suggest that you should probably act quickly to correct this unless you were intending to make Cyro the "New Battleground"

I for one do not enjoy battlegrounds gameplay and have chosen to not do battlegrounds and you have essentially converted Cyro to this...

I would also suggest that you re-examine who you are listening to for feedback since the people that have the great streams of gameplay are not necessarily your target customer despite what they are telling you

Well said.....its not in my mind that difficult to see where this leads to. Reduction in pushing keeps and outposts leads pretty clearly to no one moving around map---and if they are not moving all those who make a living either farming new players at resources or bombing will basically be standing around waiting endlessly for something to happen......but slowly it tapers to nothing. The parasitic styles of play in cyro has need for players to keep playing the game as designed, otherwise the fringe of game-play cant exist. Surely they can see this leading to a dead end in play.....

But they are playing the game as designed too, or is pvdoor with no opposition considered the only way to play as designed now?

No, not playing as designed and you well know it.....as far as PvDoor- is there some system in place to notify the enemy you are on your way? I wonder if such a thing exists like say.....a war zone where you are under constant attack and either defend or attack in order to play the game? Maybe divide it up by factions and score the game based on what is taken and lost and give in game currency like say AP for doing that with leader board giving rewards for it. Busy ganking a dude solo with 6 players in stealth and miss the attack? Too bad. Pay attention to the war.

Nothing worse than NOT calling them up on phone to tell them 'hey, we are gonna hit you now at xxxxx'.......You know, maybe you are on to something.....let me say right now unequivocally right now that I will attack every single keep my faction does not own at anytime in Cyro. There, notified the enemy they will be attacked so there is no way I can be accused of PvDoor by anyone. Thanks man, you offered me a lot to think about and have helped me to keep on track by announcing my intentions to the enemy factions. Appreciate ya bro.

Yes it is playing as designed which is exactly why vd and proxy were created by zos.

As far as pvdoor goes, I don’t like the play style since usually the people doing it never defend it anyway so they are doing nothing to help the score, but regardless I’m not looking to remove their play style or say it’s not intended just because I don’t like it or don’t want to use the counters.

Pvp is already on life support and if Zos listened to all the complaints about solos, 1vX, ball groups, snipers, gankers, pvdoor groups, and zergs there wouldn’t be anyone left in cyrodill.

Now you are playing word games man...not a good look. No one cares about VD and Prox Det, what they care about is reduction in group size from 24 to 12 (no way to carry/help new players), ZOS deciding they will simply not show us some of the skills and effects to improve game-play that did not improve anything at all, and of course guaranteed crit from stealth dealing 46% bonus damage if a Ranged attack and 275% bonus damage if a Melee attack (Magical and Martial, rather than only Martial), and Stun the target on Martial or Magical melee attacks. So, one dude in stealth and easily wipe out 80% of a push if they attack one time and you dont get to even respond to it as ZOS decided you did not need to see some effects in game. Buff to the style of game play that is parasitic in nature to the point they can wipe out any groups efforts in one shot.

The game itself thrives on consistent flow of new players that was destroyed by the 24 man groups being reduced to 12 so no one will carry new players and teach them the game any longer and with the buffs too 'from stealth' bombers and gankers they are encouraging the solo and now bomb groups that largely wait around for someone to try and play the way the game was designed while they, themselves drive none of the play out in Cyro. If there is ONE play style that needed no buff at all, its the style that doesn't try to push action on map but moves to it in order to play at all.....you kill what little is left of the PvP here and it doesn't take a genius to see where this leads.

If you personally are comfortable with no new players coming out beyond forming up bomb groups of say 6 deep and gank squads of 6-8 (as we see now with patch) then by all means bomb and gank till your hearts content.....but they dont drive the fights on the map and never will.

Eventually it will be a bunch of players chatting and waiting for anyone to dare come out of keeps as no one will chance a push and simply faction stack to move at all. Never encourage the faction stacks in game man....never. To me this is absolutely NOT where the game should have started to move---but its what they did last patch. Best part is they ignore the malfunctioning CC immunity not working in combat that was major concern to many who play now.....further insulting the players who are left and allowed block cost bug that was picked up and listed from PTS to come over to the game. Double insult. If that sounds like a bunch of fun to you......have at it. But to me it sounds like the final nail.

There was no play on words, I was just backing up the fact that vd bombers are an intended play style which is why zos created it. Apparently op cares about vd because that’s what he was complaining about in his post.

I do agree dropping the group size was a bad idea, but that still doesn’t change the fact it’s an intended play style even if you consider it parasitic. As far as the increased stealth damage that is only for pve so it helps to understand how the game works before complaining.

With that being said vd did get buffed and the damage can be buffed even more on a stamina character which again I clearly stated I don’t think it needed a buff and I also stated I am not a bomber so reading the thread could have saved you a big wall of text.

I play a solo, medium armor, no cloak, stamblade and I get bombed by groups when I’m solo and as much as I hate the cheesiness of it I just hit the respawn button and I’m on my way. If you’re running in groups and you’re not prepared to use the many counters then that’s your choice, but to expect to just take keeps with no resistance or call other people’s play style parasitic doesn’t really address any of the problems.

The players created the bombers, not the game. And they did so to fight the players who are playing it as it was designed with only one player who dies nearly every time, but ends up killing a large amount of players as consequence, suicide bombing is NOT something they designed in the game, but a byproduct of those who did not care to create a group and fight back in that way......So now with changes we see GROUPS of them due to increased stam cost to block bug making it 100% certain a few bombers in succession will reduce any group to 0 stam. 100%

The additional damage is in "Combat and Gameplay" section. Just in case you missed it. Nothing quite as funny as someone explaining to another they need to 'understand how the game works" and being given the patch notes themselves to say that isnt how it works.

And what you play...is irrelevant as the topic was "The combination of buffs to attacks to stealth and Viscous Death has created a bombers paradise. Now, all we have is groups of stealth bombers while we siege. You couple this with the reduction in group number from 24 has made groups trying to play the map as was intended a very undesirable experience." Could be you needed to read the topic more carefully and understand it wasn't VD alone, but the COMBINATION of the buffs and increased damage and what that did with VD related to the groups being limited to 12. Guaranteed Critical Strike, with increase in damage. Problematic in 12 man groups. No issue with normal groups.

So parasitic playstyles are buffed and that encourages the faction stacks. That isnt a preference, its my warning of where this leads to and is ironic as the reduction in groups size (unclear/conflicting reasons), not showing us some skills/visuals as determined by ZOS who doesn't play the game and buffs to damage from stealth along with VD and the increased block cost bug not being addressed.....gives NO IMPROVEMENT TO PERFORMANCE and the lag is still a problem along with the problems not addressed to work on this stuff. The definition of irony.

There is no question the lag has not improved and the faction stacks are becoming more regular in the game right now.....let me say again, you can play however you want....but if you dont see where this leads, you really should ask yourself what happens when its only faction stacks and 8 man groups of gankers and bombers out on map. Its where this drives the play inevitably. Moreover, I dont see any improvement in lag----none.

At this point it seems you’re just trolling, the players didn’t create the bombers. There is no open source code where Zos allows the players to create item sets and skills like vd, proxy, and cloak. To keep saying otherwise makes no sense.

As far as the increased crit damage goes I’m well aware of that and it’s been thoroughly tested that it only affects pve damage not pvp so to continue to spread even more false information adds nothing to the discussion. Obviously nb gets guaranteed crit in cloak, but it’s always been that way.

As mentioned several times to you already I’m not a bomber and again if you read the thread you would see we actually agree on many points. If you have a problem with bombers then take it up with zos, but to just keep insulting other players for playing the game as intended is petty and does nothing to address the problem.

Yes the damage should be toned down, but to complain about people bombing you’re group for attacking their keep makes no sense.They are supposed to do that and being in a group you have many counters available and doesn’t make sense to keep complaining about something, but not use those counters.

"At this point it seems you’re just trolling, the players didn’t create the bombers. There is no open source code where Zos allows the players to create item sets and skills like vd, proxy, and cloak. To keep saying otherwise makes no sense."

This statement shows you are not understanding who made bombers in the game. There is no way to show you as its been laid out for you already and you insist ZOS itself did not add skills and gear in the game players are using in a very specific way that works best when others are playing the game while you wait for precisely that alone to play. What else does a bomber do well? Maybe that will help you to understand who actually created them and what they do in game. Answer what they do really well, besides bombing groups of players and you may be able to understand.

The statement shows that zos was the one that purposely created bombers and you’ve said absolutely nothing to prove otherwise. Those are just facts whether you like them or not it doesn’t change that.

As far as what else they do well really has nothing to do with the thread. Again if you read the thread you will see I agree about the damage being too high and that’s something you have to go after zos for because bombers are always going to be a part of cyrodill so in the meantime I’d recommend using the many counters you have available as a group instead of complaining about not being able to take empty keeps with no resistance. It is pvp after all.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Thanos7895 wrote: »

The combination of buffs to attacks to stealth and Viscous Death has created a bombers paradise. Now, all we have is groups of stealth bombers while we siege. You couple this with the reduction in group number from 24 has made groups trying to play the map as was intended a very undesirable experience.

ZOS - I would suggest that you should probably act quickly to correct this unless you were intending to make Cyro the "New Battleground"

I for one do not enjoy battlegrounds gameplay and have chosen to not do battlegrounds and you have essentially converted Cyro to this...

I would also suggest that you re-examine who you are listening to for feedback since the people that have the great streams of gameplay are not necessarily your target customer despite what they are telling you

Well said.....its not in my mind that difficult to see where this leads to. Reduction in pushing keeps and outposts leads pretty clearly to no one moving around map---and if they are not moving all those who make a living either farming new players at resources or bombing will basically be standing around waiting endlessly for something to happen......but slowly it tapers to nothing. The parasitic styles of play in cyro has need for players to keep playing the game as designed, otherwise the fringe of game-play cant exist. Surely they can see this leading to a dead end in play.....

But they are playing the game as designed too, or is pvdoor with no opposition considered the only way to play as designed now?

No, not playing as designed and you well know it.....as far as PvDoor- is there some system in place to notify the enemy you are on your way? I wonder if such a thing exists like say.....a war zone where you are under constant attack and either defend or attack in order to play the game? Maybe divide it up by factions and score the game based on what is taken and lost and give in game currency like say AP for doing that with leader board giving rewards for it. Busy ganking a dude solo with 6 players in stealth and miss the attack? Too bad. Pay attention to the war.

Nothing worse than NOT calling them up on phone to tell them 'hey, we are gonna hit you now at xxxxx'.......You know, maybe you are on to something.....let me say right now unequivocally right now that I will attack every single keep my faction does not own at anytime in Cyro. There, notified the enemy they will be attacked so there is no way I can be accused of PvDoor by anyone. Thanks man, you offered me a lot to think about and have helped me to keep on track by announcing my intentions to the enemy factions. Appreciate ya bro.

Yes it is playing as designed which is exactly why vd and proxy were created by zos.

As far as pvdoor goes, I don’t like the play style since usually the people doing it never defend it anyway so they are doing nothing to help the score, but regardless I’m not looking to remove their play style or say it’s not intended just because I don’t like it or don’t want to use the counters.

Pvp is already on life support and if Zos listened to all the complaints about solos, 1vX, ball groups, snipers, gankers, pvdoor groups, and zergs there wouldn’t be anyone left in cyrodill.

Now you are playing word games man...not a good look. No one cares about VD and Prox Det, what they care about is reduction in group size from 24 to 12 (no way to carry/help new players), ZOS deciding they will simply not show us some of the skills and effects to improve game-play that did not improve anything at all, and of course guaranteed crit from stealth dealing 46% bonus damage if a Ranged attack and 275% bonus damage if a Melee attack (Magical and Martial, rather than only Martial), and Stun the target on Martial or Magical melee attacks. So, one dude in stealth and easily wipe out 80% of a push if they attack one time and you dont get to even respond to it as ZOS decided you did not need to see some effects in game. Buff to the style of game play that is parasitic in nature to the point they can wipe out any groups efforts in one shot.

The game itself thrives on consistent flow of new players that was destroyed by the 24 man groups being reduced to 12 so no one will carry new players and teach them the game any longer and with the buffs too 'from stealth' bombers and gankers they are encouraging the solo and now bomb groups that largely wait around for someone to try and play the way the game was designed while they, themselves drive none of the play out in Cyro. If there is ONE play style that needed no buff at all, its the style that doesn't try to push action on map but moves to it in order to play at all.....you kill what little is left of the PvP here and it doesn't take a genius to see where this leads.

If you personally are comfortable with no new players coming out beyond forming up bomb groups of say 6 deep and gank squads of 6-8 (as we see now with patch) then by all means bomb and gank till your hearts content.....but they dont drive the fights on the map and never will.

Eventually it will be a bunch of players chatting and waiting for anyone to dare come out of keeps as no one will chance a push and simply faction stack to move at all. Never encourage the faction stacks in game man....never. To me this is absolutely NOT where the game should have started to move---but its what they did last patch. Best part is they ignore the malfunctioning CC immunity not working in combat that was major concern to many who play now.....further insulting the players who are left and allowed block cost bug that was picked up and listed from PTS to come over to the game. Double insult. If that sounds like a bunch of fun to you......have at it. But to me it sounds like the final nail.

There was no play on words, I was just backing up the fact that vd bombers are an intended play style which is why zos created it. Apparently op cares about vd because that’s what he was complaining about in his post.

I do agree dropping the group size was a bad idea, but that still doesn’t change the fact it’s an intended play style even if you consider it parasitic. As far as the increased stealth damage that is only for pve so it helps to understand how the game works before complaining.

With that being said vd did get buffed and the damage can be buffed even more on a stamina character which again I clearly stated I don’t think it needed a buff and I also stated I am not a bomber so reading the thread could have saved you a big wall of text.

I play a solo, medium armor, no cloak, stamblade and I get bombed by groups when I’m solo and as much as I hate the cheesiness of it I just hit the respawn button and I’m on my way. If you’re running in groups and you’re not prepared to use the many counters then that’s your choice, but to expect to just take keeps with no resistance or call other people’s play style parasitic doesn’t really address any of the problems.

The players created the bombers, not the game. And they did so to fight the players who are playing it as it was designed with only one player who dies nearly every time, but ends up killing a large amount of players as consequence, suicide bombing is NOT something they designed in the game, but a byproduct of those who did not care to create a group and fight back in that way......So now with changes we see GROUPS of them due to increased stam cost to block bug making it 100% certain a few bombers in succession will reduce any group to 0 stam. 100%

The additional damage is in "Combat and Gameplay" section. Just in case you missed it. Nothing quite as funny as someone explaining to another they need to 'understand how the game works" and being given the patch notes themselves to say that isnt how it works.

And what you play...is irrelevant as the topic was "The combination of buffs to attacks to stealth and Viscous Death has created a bombers paradise. Now, all we have is groups of stealth bombers while we siege. You couple this with the reduction in group number from 24 has made groups trying to play the map as was intended a very undesirable experience." Could be you needed to read the topic more carefully and understand it wasn't VD alone, but the COMBINATION of the buffs and increased damage and what that did with VD related to the groups being limited to 12. Guaranteed Critical Strike, with increase in damage. Problematic in 12 man groups. No issue with normal groups.

So parasitic playstyles are buffed and that encourages the faction stacks. That isnt a preference, its my warning of where this leads to and is ironic as the reduction in groups size (unclear/conflicting reasons), not showing us some skills/visuals as determined by ZOS who doesn't play the game and buffs to damage from stealth along with VD and the increased block cost bug not being addressed.....gives NO IMPROVEMENT TO PERFORMANCE and the lag is still a problem along with the problems not addressed to work on this stuff. The definition of irony.

There is no question the lag has not improved and the faction stacks are becoming more regular in the game right now.....let me say again, you can play however you want....but if you dont see where this leads, you really should ask yourself what happens when its only faction stacks and 8 man groups of gankers and bombers out on map. Its where this drives the play inevitably. Moreover, I dont see any improvement in lag----none.

At this point it seems you’re just trolling, the players didn’t create the bombers. There is no open source code where Zos allows the players to create item sets and skills like vd, proxy, and cloak. To keep saying otherwise makes no sense.

As far as the increased crit damage goes I’m well aware of that and it’s been thoroughly tested that it only affects pve damage not pvp so to continue to spread even more false information adds nothing to the discussion. Obviously nb gets guaranteed crit in cloak, but it’s always been that way.

As mentioned several times to you already I’m not a bomber and again if you read the thread you would see we actually agree on many points. If you have a problem with bombers then take it up with zos, but to just keep insulting other players for playing the game as intended is petty and does nothing to address the problem.

Yes the damage should be toned down, but to complain about people bombing you’re group for attacking their keep makes no sense.They are supposed to do that and being in a group you have many counters available and doesn’t make sense to keep complaining about something, but not use those counters.

"At this point it seems you’re just trolling, the players didn’t create the bombers. There is no open source code where Zos allows the players to create item sets and skills like vd, proxy, and cloak. To keep saying otherwise makes no sense."

This statement shows you are not understanding who made bombers in the game. There is no way to show you as its been laid out for you already and you insist ZOS itself did not add skills and gear in the game players are using in a very specific way that works best when others are playing the game while you wait for precisely that alone to play. What else does a bomber do well? Maybe that will help you to understand who actually created them and what they do in game. Answer what they do really well, besides bombing groups of players and you may be able to understand.

The statement shows that zos was the one that purposely created bombers and you’ve said absolutely nothing to prove otherwise. Those are just facts whether you like them or not it doesn’t change that.

As far as what else they do well really has nothing to do with the thread. Again if you read the thread you will see I agree about the damage being too high and that’s something you have to go after zos for because bombers are always going to be a part of cyrodill so in the meantime I’d recommend using the many counters you have available as a group instead of complaining about not being able to take empty keeps with no resistance. It is pvp after all.

I dont need to prove to you anything, we dont drink beer and hang out---in fact all I can say is some conversations are like swimming.....some people should stay in the shallow end of the pool or risk drowning if they stray over to the deep end.

I would suggest you take your own advice here and read the thread carefully, including what the OP sated and not add in imaginary testing done showing ZOS patch notes are not 'working' but were included to confuse players.....maybe put that in the 'bugs' section if you have testing that shows the crit, increased damage from stealth is only working in PvE----I am certain they would want to know this.

As for the rest, it feels like you have tunnel-vision and see one single line of each post missing the bigger picture being talked about-the cumulative impact on the game with recent changes and where that leads to.

So again you have nothing to add to the conversation other than insults and misinformation. Thank you for helping prove my points, have a great day!