Does ZOS not play test mag builds in PvP?

Joy_Division · June 2021

milllaurie wrote: »

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Mag builds are seriously under performing compared to stam builds.

1. Light armor has the lowest armor rating
2. Light has penalties including one that takes extra martial damage.
3. Harder to hit 6.5k SD for procs.
4. Medium armor has ZERO penalties
EDIT: 5. Lack of weapon diversity. Mag only viable option is destro staff. Stam has 2h, dual wield and bow.

If you playing a mag build, you're basically handicapping yourself.

I'd say all stam class variants are better except maybe sorcerer.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, could something be done about this and not make this Elder Stamina Online?

Are we playing the same game? Because I surely see a lot of 2h/dw mag builds recently.
There is also heavy armor, have you ever tried it?

That magicka players run around in heavy armor and use "stamina" weapons whose offensive skills are almost pointless for them does suggest the robe / staff wizard archetype is a poor mechanical choice.

The OP ought to have phrased it that way.

Firstmep · June 2021

Joy_Division wrote: »

milllaurie wrote: »

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Mag builds are seriously under performing compared to stam builds.

1. Light armor has the lowest armor rating
2. Light has penalties including one that takes extra martial damage.
3. Harder to hit 6.5k SD for procs.
4. Medium armor has ZERO penalties
EDIT: 5. Lack of weapon diversity. Mag only viable option is destro staff. Stam has 2h, dual wield and bow.

If you playing a mag build, you're basically handicapping yourself.

I'd say all stam class variants are better except maybe sorcerer.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, could something be done about this and not make this Elder Stamina Online?

Are we playing the same game? Because I surely see a lot of 2h/dw mag builds recently.
There is also heavy armor, have you ever tried it?

That magicka players run around in heavy armor and use "stamina" weapons whose offensive skills are almost pointless for them does suggest the robe / staff wizard archetype is a poor mechanical choice.

The OP ought to have phrased it that way.

To be fair there are also stam builds running around with an ice staff backbar because elemental drain is ranged and free major breach and mag sustain without any investment into it.
In general the game has been moving towards hybridization a lot lately due to Zos merging things like pen.
Whether that's a good thing or not ofc is another matter entirely.

Vizirith · June 2021

Joy_Division wrote: »

milllaurie wrote: »

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Mag builds are seriously under performing compared to stam builds.

1. Light armor has the lowest armor rating
2. Light has penalties including one that takes extra martial damage.
3. Harder to hit 6.5k SD for procs.
4. Medium armor has ZERO penalties
EDIT: 5. Lack of weapon diversity. Mag only viable option is destro staff. Stam has 2h, dual wield and bow.

If you playing a mag build, you're basically handicapping yourself.

I'd say all stam class variants are better except maybe sorcerer.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, could something be done about this and not make this Elder Stamina Online?

Are we playing the same game? Because I surely see a lot of 2h/dw mag builds recently.
There is also heavy armor, have you ever tried it?

That magicka players run around in heavy armor and use "stamina" weapons whose offensive skills are almost pointless for them does suggest the robe / staff wizard archetype is a poor mechanical choice.

The OP ought to have phrased it that way.

But even then most heavy armor dmg based sets are stam focused. And heavy attacking with 2H or Dw give back stam not mag, while not important if you are BB a resto staff, it is if you are BB SnB. Not to mention that then you run into the issue of not having a source of maj fracture and depending on the class forgoing the magsteal from drain too. Is it worth it to give up the 9% more damage and 300 mag recovery? All of which are problems that stam doesn't run into. To even further the disparity, because of the more numerous stam dmg based heavy sets you can BB a few of them which frees up slots, none of the heavy non-crafted magicka dmg based sets allow this.

While we can fit a square shaped peg into a round hole with some sanding and forcing, why do it when the round peg is right there?

Sagetim · June 2021

I feel like people don’t even play this game or pay attention to what classes are rurunning around. There’s a ton more stamina builds then magic build out there because magic builds can’t hold up to the stamina builds Point blank and simple

ResidentContrarian · June 2021

I have not had much of an issue, now on my lower CP areas (PC EU and other alternates), then there is a huge issue since the lack of extra slottable stars becomes apparent in combat when you combine that and the disadvantage you have wearing 7 light.

The game is now "kill or be killed," while that isn't a bad thing, some classes like Warden and Necro continue to have way too much defensive power relative to everyone else, and their stam variants...well no one needs to explain it since everyone here plays the game and knows exactly what I mean unless they play those two classes and have their augmented reality lens on.

neferpitou73 · June 2021

I'd honestly like if they reverted the changes they made to armor. The penalties they added to light and heavy armor made them more unfavorable to use (why should I make a build or group with an armor type that makes me take extra damage?) while leaving medium armor alone (favoring stam).

The proc changes then compounded on this by making them scale off of weapon or spell damage, because ZOS ignored or forgot that it's easier to stack weapon than spell damage. So again the stamina builds get the benefit. Ults also scale off max stats. So you can get pretty high tooltips on destro and the like from stacking weapon damage as well.

The free 1000 weapon and spell damage also contributed to the issue, albeit in a subtle way. That free 1000 spell damage made it possible for stamina builds to get proxies hitting as hard as proxies on magicka builds in the pre-free-damage patch (at least in comps that I've looked at). So you can get some really nice AOE burst on stam builds.

So from the perspective of build making, why would I run a magicka build that takes more damage from stamina builds and has lower proc damage when I can run a stamina build that has no drawbacks in terms of damage taken, has higher proc and ult damage, and can hit proxies as hard as an old bomber?

Don't get me wrong I personally have nothing against stamina builds and am perfectly willing to play them. But from a balance point of view these changes have resulted in even more of a stam meta than there already was (unless you're in a magicka group stacking crit damage).