Canned_Apples wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

popular and totally viable.

They’re not “totally viable.”
They’re meta.

Indeed. I just meant that I’m finding stat-based builds are at least somewhat able to hang this patch. Bad choice of words.

I've tried multiple sets, but there's no real counter to proc sets, especially if you cannot purge.
Multiple proc sets and malacath apply too much "pressure" by spamming one skill.

Merciless charge--> dot- aoe dot- proc one- proc two- poison one- poison two- poisoned- vate staff (all with malacath for 25% more damage)

I find that high mobility and aggressive playstyle works pretty well. I do main a stamplar so constant cleanse helps too.

Xargas13 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Guys.. It is a "get good" issue ! Experienced PVPers at high mmer will keep hots rolling all the time and block your hardest hitting abilties.. it's because of this that you have the impression that you do no damage..

You must learn to coordinate your burst with a cc to have any chance of killing experience PVPers.. Try dueling for a while to get the hang of it.. My improvement in ESO PVP came after tons of duels.. before that I was a nub like everybody else not understanding how some characters are so "OP"..

Well, I know when I see block and I know how hots work. While blocking does reduce damage taken as I block myself, those guys don't block, they just run around dizzy smashing everything. Hots never prevent damage on the other hand, I run hots too, and I still take damage, damage that I can out heal afterwards but I still do TAKE damage.

I have to admit I probably don't know everything about the game, since I have no idea how they doing it, and I have no idea, because no one can explain, your explanation won't do as I keep my hots up and block, I might survive, but I can't deal insane damage numbers, I use offensive sets that provide, or at least should provide high damage, but it just doesn't work.

I saw builds that use tanky sets and deal do more damage then me, which shouldn't be possible as I said before... Hybrid builds over performing that's for sure.

You don't know because you, like the OP, are asking to explain something that isn't explainable, or at least is so abstract that an explanation wouldn't help you anyway.

How does one explain intuition and experience? They can't. When I play on my magplar, I an *way* better than when I play even a better spec like a Stamden because I have thousands of hours of experience on my Magplar. My knowledge of the game's mechanics is exactly the same, yet my level of expertise on these classes is night and day. So even knowing the intrcracises of PvP doesn't help because Pvping, like most things, can't be learned from an instruction manual. Otherwise, anyone who watched a 1vX youtube video would be 1vXing.

And the fact of the matter is that some people are just better at video games. They may have better hand-eye coordination, faster twitch muscles, aren;t prone to panicking, are naturally more aggressive, can better internalize strategies on the fly, have a more intuitive feel for fast paced combat, have 100% perfect animation canceling, etc.

At the end of the day the players who are really good at this game seem "unkillable" or are able to "do everything" because it's just that, they are really good. The proof is practically in the OP; they are copying the same build but aren;t nearly as experienced or skilled to get the same results.

Sorry but I don't see it that way, I agree that bluntly copying others won't do, I know that the way you play your character matters, but when you smash your hand against a wall of rock, you will never break it, and that's the case here, no matter how good you are, you won't kill something that doesn't take almost any damage, and while doing so has insane burst... I know I know, get defensive, but then it will be a 10min battle or till someone gets bored, I don't know how can anyone enjoy that. And I've been at those almost 10min battle, I couldn't kill player and he couldn't kill me, I got bored and went away, he did the same, really GG...

You don;t see that some players are just better at video games? Should I be as good of a guitarist as The Edge or Jack White because I watch a couple of youtube instructional videos or practice a few hours a day? It's not going to happen because I about as tone deaf as they come and do not have the natural musical aptitude of self taught musicians like Paul McCartney.

The way you play a characters matter ways more than goldening out meta gear. Way more. There have been times I forgot to take off my PvE gear and I'd still win fights. Whenever I read a post from a frustrated user saying something like "I have 7 piece of heavy armor I shouldn't be so easy to kill" that just screams mediocre player expecting their gear to carry them. Surviving in PvP is more about LOS and pressuring your opponents such that you don;t have to tank or heal through damage in the first place; 7 pieces of golden heavy armor isn't going to help players with either of those at all.

Damage is also more about how a build plays than it's stats. And there is absolutely skill. Which is why everyday on these forums, PvEers ask why it is they only get half the DPS of top players even though they have the exact same gear and copy their rotation. It's also about honest introspection. When I lose a fight and am wondering how it was I took so much damage or why it seemed like my opponent's health bar didn;t move, I take the time and look at the combat logs. I'd say a good 2/3 of the time, I am surprised that I actually did *more* total damage, in some cases almost twice as much as my opponent. But the fact of the matter is that PvP is all about WHEN that damage is applied. I recognize that a weakness in my game is that I tend to be lazy in properly timing burst to coincide with CC; that is absolutely skill based gameplay. Because I am lazy in the regard, I lose fights I probably should win considering I am already doing more damage.

So, yes, some people are just really good at ESO and that is more often than not the explanation why things happen.

I know that some players are better at video games, hell, I have been at the top in one game that I've played for years and players were asking me what to do, and the difference is, I always been able to explain, here people just say "it's skill" and that's it... It's like some Scooby - Doo mystery lol. Sorry but I don't see it as a skill if you kill a player that doesn't do any damage to you, it's your knowledge of the game won, not your skill, like what gear to equip and what buffs to use... I think something is definitely broken with the game and that's it. Lets agree to disagree here, as you will sing your song and I will sing mine, there is no point in this.

Just watch some 1vX videos, or those of people going 20 and 1 in battlegrounds. They're not using secret sets or buffs, they're playing extremely skillfully. Excellent use of positioning, dodging, blocking, and knowing when to engage and disengage. Obviously there is an element of game knowledge to at least be aware of these tactics, but the optimal execution of them comes with practice and experience. This game has a sizeable skill gap. The only way to close that gap for any individual player is for them to practice extensively. It probably took me about 2 to 3 years of playing on and off before I was able to regularly dominate BG matches.

Xargas13 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Guys.. It is a "get good" issue ! Experienced PVPers at high mmer will keep hots rolling all the time and block your hardest hitting abilties.. it's because of this that you have the impression that you do no damage..

You must learn to coordinate your burst with a cc to have any chance of killing experience PVPers.. Try dueling for a while to get the hang of it.. My improvement in ESO PVP came after tons of duels.. before that I was a nub like everybody else not understanding how some characters are so "OP"..

Well, I know when I see block and I know how hots work. While blocking does reduce damage taken as I block myself, those guys don't block, they just run around dizzy smashing everything. Hots never prevent damage on the other hand, I run hots too, and I still take damage, damage that I can out heal afterwards but I still do TAKE damage.

I have to admit I probably don't know everything about the game, since I have no idea how they doing it, and I have no idea, because no one can explain, your explanation won't do as I keep my hots up and block, I might survive, but I can't deal insane damage numbers, I use offensive sets that provide, or at least should provide high damage, but it just doesn't work.

I saw builds that use tanky sets and deal do more damage then me, which shouldn't be possible as I said before... Hybrid builds over performing that's for sure.

You don't know because you, like the OP, are asking to explain something that isn't explainable, or at least is so abstract that an explanation wouldn't help you anyway.

How does one explain intuition and experience? They can't. When I play on my magplar, I an *way* better than when I play even a better spec like a Stamden because I have thousands of hours of experience on my Magplar. My knowledge of the game's mechanics is exactly the same, yet my level of expertise on these classes is night and day. So even knowing the intrcracises of PvP doesn't help because Pvping, like most things, can't be learned from an instruction manual. Otherwise, anyone who watched a 1vX youtube video would be 1vXing.

And the fact of the matter is that some people are just better at video games. They may have better hand-eye coordination, faster twitch muscles, aren;t prone to panicking, are naturally more aggressive, can better internalize strategies on the fly, have a more intuitive feel for fast paced combat, have 100% perfect animation canceling, etc.

At the end of the day the players who are really good at this game seem "unkillable" or are able to "do everything" because it's just that, they are really good. The proof is practically in the OP; they are copying the same build but aren;t nearly as experienced or skilled to get the same results.

Sorry but I don't see it that way, I agree that bluntly copying others won't do, I know that the way you play your character matters, but when you smash your hand against a wall of rock, you will never break it, and that's the case here, no matter how good you are, you won't kill something that doesn't take almost any damage, and while doing so has insane burst... I know I know, get defensive, but then it will be a 10min battle or till someone gets bored, I don't know how can anyone enjoy that. And I've been at those almost 10min battle, I couldn't kill player and he couldn't kill me, I got bored and went away, he did the same, really GG...

You don;t see that some players are just better at video games? Should I be as good of a guitarist as The Edge or Jack White because I watch a couple of youtube instructional videos or practice a few hours a day? It's not going to happen because I about as tone deaf as they come and do not have the natural musical aptitude of self taught musicians like Paul McCartney.

The way you play a characters matter ways more than goldening out meta gear. Way more. There have been times I forgot to take off my PvE gear and I'd still win fights. Whenever I read a post from a frustrated user saying something like "I have 7 piece of heavy armor I shouldn't be so easy to kill" that just screams mediocre player expecting their gear to carry them. Surviving in PvP is more about LOS and pressuring your opponents such that you don;t have to tank or heal through damage in the first place; 7 pieces of golden heavy armor isn't going to help players with either of those at all.

Damage is also more about how a build plays than it's stats. And there is absolutely skill. Which is why everyday on these forums, PvEers ask why it is they only get half the DPS of top players even though they have the exact same gear and copy their rotation. It's also about honest introspection. When I lose a fight and am wondering how it was I took so much damage or why it seemed like my opponent's health bar didn;t move, I take the time and look at the combat logs. I'd say a good 2/3 of the time, I am surprised that I actually did *more* total damage, in some cases almost twice as much as my opponent. But the fact of the matter is that PvP is all about WHEN that damage is applied. I recognize that a weakness in my game is that I tend to be lazy in properly timing burst to coincide with CC; that is absolutely skill based gameplay. Because I am lazy in the regard, I lose fights I probably should win considering I am already doing more damage.

So, yes, some people are just really good at ESO and that is more often than not the explanation why things happen.

I know that some players are better at video games, hell, I have been at the top in one game that I've played for years and players were asking me what to do, and the difference is, I always been able to explain, here people just say "it's skill" and that's it... It's like some Scooby - Doo mystery lol. Sorry but I don't see it as a skill if you kill a player that doesn't do any damage to you, it's your knowledge of the game won, not your skill, like what gear to equip and what buffs to use... I think something is definitely broken with the game and that's it. Lets agree to disagree here, as you will sing your song and I will sing mine, there is no point in this.

There is no mystery, its just too complex to explain so easily.

When i advise new players, here are the few key pointers i alway, literally always have to explain:

Buffs: Everyone is good at going into a fight with their buffs up, but so many even vet players let those buffs fall off.
And it makes a word of different, even something as trivial as keeping up major sorcery/brutality buffs can and will make a huge difference. Heals also fall in this category.

Core combat skills: Its not always so obvious what to use in a specific scenrio, block is generally a safe thing do, if you are in trouble but not always. If you want to be able to disengage from a fight then blocking will just slow you down, for example.

LOS: This is a big one, if you dont have los on your opponent, you cant hit them.
Sometimes even the smallest pebble can provide safety, and knowing this can be cruical, beacuse with los you can completely shut down a lot of offensive combos.

Then theres knowledge about the different classes, learning to recognize what kind of build, sets etc they use.
How to counter those builds, and recognising when a build is a counter to yours and you simply cant beat it.
Target selection, positioning, situational averness,being able to keep an eye on multiple people at the same time.
Animation cancelling, weaving etc.

A lot of this you ( but not all) you can practice by dueling friends or really anyone.

Way back when i started pvping, about 6 months into the games launch, i was about as lost as you, and it took me a long time of practicing and learning the game to get any decent.

And even there are people that play this game way more than i do and are simply better.

Im typically more of a theorycrafter myself, but my execution doesnt completely suck.

And yes, gear does matter, compared to a lot of other games, it really does, but at the some time, everyone has access to the same stuff, you dont need to grind 500 hours to get best gear like in BDO for example, and a lot of BIS sets usually have easy to get alternatives as well.

I will say that blocking is a bit too strong in this game, and currently the available counters are usually not up to the task unless your willing to go full on chesee proc mode.
Some classes are defensive more sound than others, and are generally easier to survive on.

But unless you are fighting top tier pvpers, all of that can be overcome with skill, trust me.

Just the other day i finished a new toon levelling and started doing some bgs(stam dk), and i had no issue clapping everyone in low mmr bgs, including stamcro, wardens etc, beacuse i knew exactly what i needed to do to counter them, and at those low skill levels its pretty easy to read players.

Just my thoughts tho.

Firstmep wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Guys.. It is a "get good" issue ! Experienced PVPers at high mmer will keep hots rolling all the time and block your hardest hitting abilties.. it's because of this that you have the impression that you do no damage..

You must learn to coordinate your burst with a cc to have any chance of killing experience PVPers.. Try dueling for a while to get the hang of it.. My improvement in ESO PVP came after tons of duels.. before that I was a nub like everybody else not understanding how some characters are so "OP"..

Well, I know when I see block and I know how hots work. While blocking does reduce damage taken as I block myself, those guys don't block, they just run around dizzy smashing everything. Hots never prevent damage on the other hand, I run hots too, and I still take damage, damage that I can out heal afterwards but I still do TAKE damage.

I have to admit I probably don't know everything about the game, since I have no idea how they doing it, and I have no idea, because no one can explain, your explanation won't do as I keep my hots up and block, I might survive, but I can't deal insane damage numbers, I use offensive sets that provide, or at least should provide high damage, but it just doesn't work.

I saw builds that use tanky sets and deal do more damage then me, which shouldn't be possible as I said before... Hybrid builds over performing that's for sure.

You don't know because you, like the OP, are asking to explain something that isn't explainable, or at least is so abstract that an explanation wouldn't help you anyway.

How does one explain intuition and experience? They can't. When I play on my magplar, I an *way* better than when I play even a better spec like a Stamden because I have thousands of hours of experience on my Magplar. My knowledge of the game's mechanics is exactly the same, yet my level of expertise on these classes is night and day. So even knowing the intrcracises of PvP doesn't help because Pvping, like most things, can't be learned from an instruction manual. Otherwise, anyone who watched a 1vX youtube video would be 1vXing.

And the fact of the matter is that some people are just better at video games. They may have better hand-eye coordination, faster twitch muscles, aren;t prone to panicking, are naturally more aggressive, can better internalize strategies on the fly, have a more intuitive feel for fast paced combat, have 100% perfect animation canceling, etc.

At the end of the day the players who are really good at this game seem "unkillable" or are able to "do everything" because it's just that, they are really good. The proof is practically in the OP; they are copying the same build but aren;t nearly as experienced or skilled to get the same results.

Sorry but I don't see it that way, I agree that bluntly copying others won't do, I know that the way you play your character matters, but when you smash your hand against a wall of rock, you will never break it, and that's the case here, no matter how good you are, you won't kill something that doesn't take almost any damage, and while doing so has insane burst... I know I know, get defensive, but then it will be a 10min battle or till someone gets bored, I don't know how can anyone enjoy that. And I've been at those almost 10min battle, I couldn't kill player and he couldn't kill me, I got bored and went away, he did the same, really GG...

You don;t see that some players are just better at video games? Should I be as good of a guitarist as The Edge or Jack White because I watch a couple of youtube instructional videos or practice a few hours a day? It's not going to happen because I about as tone deaf as they come and do not have the natural musical aptitude of self taught musicians like Paul McCartney.

The way you play a characters matter ways more than goldening out meta gear. Way more. There have been times I forgot to take off my PvE gear and I'd still win fights. Whenever I read a post from a frustrated user saying something like "I have 7 piece of heavy armor I shouldn't be so easy to kill" that just screams mediocre player expecting their gear to carry them. Surviving in PvP is more about LOS and pressuring your opponents such that you don;t have to tank or heal through damage in the first place; 7 pieces of golden heavy armor isn't going to help players with either of those at all.

Damage is also more about how a build plays than it's stats. And there is absolutely skill. Which is why everyday on these forums, PvEers ask why it is they only get half the DPS of top players even though they have the exact same gear and copy their rotation. It's also about honest introspection. When I lose a fight and am wondering how it was I took so much damage or why it seemed like my opponent's health bar didn;t move, I take the time and look at the combat logs. I'd say a good 2/3 of the time, I am surprised that I actually did *more* total damage, in some cases almost twice as much as my opponent. But the fact of the matter is that PvP is all about WHEN that damage is applied. I recognize that a weakness in my game is that I tend to be lazy in properly timing burst to coincide with CC; that is absolutely skill based gameplay. Because I am lazy in the regard, I lose fights I probably should win considering I am already doing more damage.

So, yes, some people are just really good at ESO and that is more often than not the explanation why things happen.

I know that some players are better at video games, hell, I have been at the top in one game that I've played for years and players were asking me what to do, and the difference is, I always been able to explain, here people just say "it's skill" and that's it... It's like some Scooby - Doo mystery lol. Sorry but I don't see it as a skill if you kill a player that doesn't do any damage to you, it's your knowledge of the game won, not your skill, like what gear to equip and what buffs to use... I think something is definitely broken with the game and that's it. Lets agree to disagree here, as you will sing your song and I will sing mine, there is no point in this.

There is no mystery, its just too complex to explain so easily.

When i advise new players, here are the few key pointers i alway, literally always have to explain:

Buffs: Everyone is good at going into a fight with their buffs up, but so many even vet players let those buffs fall off.
And it makes a word of different, even something as trivial as keeping up major sorcery/brutality buffs can and will make a huge difference. Heals also fall in this category.

Core combat skills: Its not always so obvious what to use in a specific scenrio, block is generally a safe thing do, if you are in trouble but not always. If you want to be able to disengage from a fight then blocking will just slow you down, for example.

LOS: This is a big one, if you dont have los on your opponent, you cant hit them.
Sometimes even the smallest pebble can provide safety, and knowing this can be cruical, beacuse with los you can completely shut down a lot of offensive combos.

Then theres knowledge about the different classes, learning to recognize what kind of build, sets etc they use.
How to counter those builds, and recognising when a build is a counter to yours and you simply cant beat it.
Target selection, positioning, situational averness,being able to keep an eye on multiple people at the same time.
Animation cancelling, weaving etc.

A lot of this you ( but not all) you can practice by dueling friends or really anyone.

Way back when i started pvping, about 6 months into the games launch, i was about as lost as you, and it took me a long time of practicing and learning the game to get any decent.

And even there are people that play this game way more than i do and are simply better.

Im typically more of a theorycrafter myself, but my execution doesnt completely suck.

And yes, gear does matter, compared to a lot of other games, it really does, but at the some time, everyone has access to the same stuff, you dont need to grind 500 hours to get best gear like in BDO for example, and a lot of BIS sets usually have easy to get alternatives as well.

I will say that blocking is a bit too strong in this game, and currently the available counters are usually not up to the task unless your willing to go full on chesee proc mode.
Some classes are defensive more sound than others, and are generally easier to survive on.

But unless you are fighting top tier pvpers, all of that can be overcome with skill, trust me.

Just the other day i finished a new toon levelling and started doing some bgs(stam dk), and i had no issue clapping everyone in low mmr bgs, including stamcro, wardens etc, beacuse i knew exactly what i needed to do to counter them, and at those low skill levels its pretty easy to read players.

Just my thoughts tho.

low mmr bg's? Does that exist? I imagine after a couple hours you are in the same mmr as everyone else right now. because the mmr is pretty much non existent and meaningless at this point.

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

CooloutAC wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Guys.. It is a "get good" issue ! Experienced PVPers at high mmer will keep hots rolling all the time and block your hardest hitting abilties.. it's because of this that you have the impression that you do no damage..

You must learn to coordinate your burst with a cc to have any chance of killing experience PVPers.. Try dueling for a while to get the hang of it.. My improvement in ESO PVP came after tons of duels.. before that I was a nub like everybody else not understanding how some characters are so "OP"..

Well, I know when I see block and I know how hots work. While blocking does reduce damage taken as I block myself, those guys don't block, they just run around dizzy smashing everything. Hots never prevent damage on the other hand, I run hots too, and I still take damage, damage that I can out heal afterwards but I still do TAKE damage.

I have to admit I probably don't know everything about the game, since I have no idea how they doing it, and I have no idea, because no one can explain, your explanation won't do as I keep my hots up and block, I might survive, but I can't deal insane damage numbers, I use offensive sets that provide, or at least should provide high damage, but it just doesn't work.

I saw builds that use tanky sets and deal do more damage then me, which shouldn't be possible as I said before... Hybrid builds over performing that's for sure.

You don't know because you, like the OP, are asking to explain something that isn't explainable, or at least is so abstract that an explanation wouldn't help you anyway.

How does one explain intuition and experience? They can't. When I play on my magplar, I an *way* better than when I play even a better spec like a Stamden because I have thousands of hours of experience on my Magplar. My knowledge of the game's mechanics is exactly the same, yet my level of expertise on these classes is night and day. So even knowing the intrcracises of PvP doesn't help because Pvping, like most things, can't be learned from an instruction manual. Otherwise, anyone who watched a 1vX youtube video would be 1vXing.

And the fact of the matter is that some people are just better at video games. They may have better hand-eye coordination, faster twitch muscles, aren;t prone to panicking, are naturally more aggressive, can better internalize strategies on the fly, have a more intuitive feel for fast paced combat, have 100% perfect animation canceling, etc.

At the end of the day the players who are really good at this game seem "unkillable" or are able to "do everything" because it's just that, they are really good. The proof is practically in the OP; they are copying the same build but aren;t nearly as experienced or skilled to get the same results.

Sorry but I don't see it that way, I agree that bluntly copying others won't do, I know that the way you play your character matters, but when you smash your hand against a wall of rock, you will never break it, and that's the case here, no matter how good you are, you won't kill something that doesn't take almost any damage, and while doing so has insane burst... I know I know, get defensive, but then it will be a 10min battle or till someone gets bored, I don't know how can anyone enjoy that. And I've been at those almost 10min battle, I couldn't kill player and he couldn't kill me, I got bored and went away, he did the same, really GG...

You don;t see that some players are just better at video games? Should I be as good of a guitarist as The Edge or Jack White because I watch a couple of youtube instructional videos or practice a few hours a day? It's not going to happen because I about as tone deaf as they come and do not have the natural musical aptitude of self taught musicians like Paul McCartney.

The way you play a characters matter ways more than goldening out meta gear. Way more. There have been times I forgot to take off my PvE gear and I'd still win fights. Whenever I read a post from a frustrated user saying something like "I have 7 piece of heavy armor I shouldn't be so easy to kill" that just screams mediocre player expecting their gear to carry them. Surviving in PvP is more about LOS and pressuring your opponents such that you don;t have to tank or heal through damage in the first place; 7 pieces of golden heavy armor isn't going to help players with either of those at all.

Damage is also more about how a build plays than it's stats. And there is absolutely skill. Which is why everyday on these forums, PvEers ask why it is they only get half the DPS of top players even though they have the exact same gear and copy their rotation. It's also about honest introspection. When I lose a fight and am wondering how it was I took so much damage or why it seemed like my opponent's health bar didn;t move, I take the time and look at the combat logs. I'd say a good 2/3 of the time, I am surprised that I actually did *more* total damage, in some cases almost twice as much as my opponent. But the fact of the matter is that PvP is all about WHEN that damage is applied. I recognize that a weakness in my game is that I tend to be lazy in properly timing burst to coincide with CC; that is absolutely skill based gameplay. Because I am lazy in the regard, I lose fights I probably should win considering I am already doing more damage.

So, yes, some people are just really good at ESO and that is more often than not the explanation why things happen.

I know that some players are better at video games, hell, I have been at the top in one game that I've played for years and players were asking me what to do, and the difference is, I always been able to explain, here people just say "it's skill" and that's it... It's like some Scooby - Doo mystery lol. Sorry but I don't see it as a skill if you kill a player that doesn't do any damage to you, it's your knowledge of the game won, not your skill, like what gear to equip and what buffs to use... I think something is definitely broken with the game and that's it. Lets agree to disagree here, as you will sing your song and I will sing mine, there is no point in this.

Just watch some 1vX videos, or those of people going 20 and 1 in battlegrounds. They're not using secret sets or buffs, they're playing extremely skillfully. Excellent use of positioning, dodging, blocking, and knowing when to engage and disengage. Obviously there is an element of game knowledge to at least be aware of these tactics, but the optimal execution of them comes with practice and experience. This game has a sizeable skill gap. The only way to close that gap for any individual player is for them to practice extensively. It probably took me about 2 to 3 years of playing on and off before I was able to regularly dominate BG matches.

can you link any? I see alot of guys with ttv in their names. But when I go to their channels they only have 20 second clips uploaded and they don't stream live for some reason.

https://youtube.com/c/KristoferESO

Watch the top 5 battle series.

Thats cyrodil not battlegrounds and I never heard of that guy.

The truth is the top 20 are like 90% of the player base in bg's and the avg player unfortunately gets grouped in with them. So if you named someone most likely i've played with them. Which is why I made my comment above about the mmr matchmaker which most people don't even believe exists. I think it resorts to creating an avg mmr among teams but even that is not great since there is such a small playerbase the gap between teams is still wide. And one or two players can dominate the entire map.

The other problem is people sync dropping into solo qeue making it pointless. GW2 and LoL address that problem by heavily penalizing quitting. The excuse that "oh I crash or lose my connection" Is not an acceptable. TOO BAD imo.

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

CooloutAC wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

CooloutAC wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I really "like" the advices being given lol, I've been in your place and got the same doodoo, I would use harsher word, but you know, forums... To me this is a very mysterious game, logic in most games I played is: spec damage, do damage, spec defensive, get reduced damage, spec heal, do heal. But in this game some players have everything in one spec and toon, I understand that hybrids are possible, but here hybrids are at the top of everything, which is ***.

I had problems too and while I was doing fine for the most part, many players were able to down me, so I joined the club and got malacath + heavy armor (didn't go into proc sets, because I don't find that gameplay satisfying), was doing awesome for a time, but I got to higher rating and everyone is a tank, but with high damage, they run around unkillable and smashing everything in their way.

I assure you this is not "git good" issue like some others saying. I mean, c'mon what ability do you have to use and in what order to kill something that doesn't take damage, you can try all day and a century and it won't do you any good...

I am mostly into PvP, but here I can't spend whole day PvPing as frustration builds up up and up.. Only staying in this game because of quests, which I enjoy. I hope one day devs wake up though, as other communities just laugh at PvP here, which drives people away, which is sad.

Guys.. It is a "get good" issue ! Experienced PVPers at high mmer will keep hots rolling all the time and block your hardest hitting abilties.. it's because of this that you have the impression that you do no damage..

You must learn to coordinate your burst with a cc to have any chance of killing experience PVPers.. Try dueling for a while to get the hang of it.. My improvement in ESO PVP came after tons of duels.. before that I was a nub like everybody else not understanding how some characters are so "OP"..

Well, I know when I see block and I know how hots work. While blocking does reduce damage taken as I block myself, those guys don't block, they just run around dizzy smashing everything. Hots never prevent damage on the other hand, I run hots too, and I still take damage, damage that I can out heal afterwards but I still do TAKE damage.

I have to admit I probably don't know everything about the game, since I have no idea how they doing it, and I have no idea, because no one can explain, your explanation won't do as I keep my hots up and block, I might survive, but I can't deal insane damage numbers, I use offensive sets that provide, or at least should provide high damage, but it just doesn't work.

I saw builds that use tanky sets and deal do more damage then me, which shouldn't be possible as I said before... Hybrid builds over performing that's for sure.

You don't know because you, like the OP, are asking to explain something that isn't explainable, or at least is so abstract that an explanation wouldn't help you anyway.

How does one explain intuition and experience? They can't. When I play on my magplar, I an *way* better than when I play even a better spec like a Stamden because I have thousands of hours of experience on my Magplar. My knowledge of the game's mechanics is exactly the same, yet my level of expertise on these classes is night and day. So even knowing the intrcracises of PvP doesn't help because Pvping, like most things, can't be learned from an instruction manual. Otherwise, anyone who watched a 1vX youtube video would be 1vXing.

And the fact of the matter is that some people are just better at video games. They may have better hand-eye coordination, faster twitch muscles, aren;t prone to panicking, are naturally more aggressive, can better internalize strategies on the fly, have a more intuitive feel for fast paced combat, have 100% perfect animation canceling, etc.

At the end of the day the players who are really good at this game seem "unkillable" or are able to "do everything" because it's just that, they are really good. The proof is practically in the OP; they are copying the same build but aren;t nearly as experienced or skilled to get the same results.

Sorry but I don't see it that way, I agree that bluntly copying others won't do, I know that the way you play your character matters, but when you smash your hand against a wall of rock, you will never break it, and that's the case here, no matter how good you are, you won't kill something that doesn't take almost any damage, and while doing so has insane burst... I know I know, get defensive, but then it will be a 10min battle or till someone gets bored, I don't know how can anyone enjoy that. And I've been at those almost 10min battle, I couldn't kill player and he couldn't kill me, I got bored and went away, he did the same, really GG...

You don;t see that some players are just better at video games? Should I be as good of a guitarist as The Edge or Jack White because I watch a couple of youtube instructional videos or practice a few hours a day? It's not going to happen because I about as tone deaf as they come and do not have the natural musical aptitude of self taught musicians like Paul McCartney.

The way you play a characters matter ways more than goldening out meta gear. Way more. There have been times I forgot to take off my PvE gear and I'd still win fights. Whenever I read a post from a frustrated user saying something like "I have 7 piece of heavy armor I shouldn't be so easy to kill" that just screams mediocre player expecting their gear to carry them. Surviving in PvP is more about LOS and pressuring your opponents such that you don;t have to tank or heal through damage in the first place; 7 pieces of golden heavy armor isn't going to help players with either of those at all.

Damage is also more about how a build plays than it's stats. And there is absolutely skill. Which is why everyday on these forums, PvEers ask why it is they only get half the DPS of top players even though they have the exact same gear and copy their rotation. It's also about honest introspection. When I lose a fight and am wondering how it was I took so much damage or why it seemed like my opponent's health bar didn;t move, I take the time and look at the combat logs. I'd say a good 2/3 of the time, I am surprised that I actually did *more* total damage, in some cases almost twice as much as my opponent. But the fact of the matter is that PvP is all about WHEN that damage is applied. I recognize that a weakness in my game is that I tend to be lazy in properly timing burst to coincide with CC; that is absolutely skill based gameplay. Because I am lazy in the regard, I lose fights I probably should win considering I am already doing more damage.

So, yes, some people are just really good at ESO and that is more often than not the explanation why things happen.

I know that some players are better at video games, hell, I have been at the top in one game that I've played for years and players were asking me what to do, and the difference is, I always been able to explain, here people just say "it's skill" and that's it... It's like some Scooby - Doo mystery lol. Sorry but I don't see it as a skill if you kill a player that doesn't do any damage to you, it's your knowledge of the game won, not your skill, like what gear to equip and what buffs to use... I think something is definitely broken with the game and that's it. Lets agree to disagree here, as you will sing your song and I will sing mine, there is no point in this.

Just watch some 1vX videos, or those of people going 20 and 1 in battlegrounds. They're not using secret sets or buffs, they're playing extremely skillfully. Excellent use of positioning, dodging, blocking, and knowing when to engage and disengage. Obviously there is an element of game knowledge to at least be aware of these tactics, but the optimal execution of them comes with practice and experience. This game has a sizeable skill gap. The only way to close that gap for any individual player is for them to practice extensively. It probably took me about 2 to 3 years of playing on and off before I was able to regularly dominate BG matches.

can you link any? I see alot of guys with ttv in their names. But when I go to their channels they only have 20 second clips uploaded and they don't stream live for some reason.

https://youtube.com/c/KristoferESO

Watch the top 5 battle series.

Thats cyrodil not battlegrounds and I never heard of that guy.

The truth is the top 20 are like 90% of the player base in bg's and the avg player unfortunately gets grouped in with them. So if you named someone most likely i've played with them. Which is why I made my comment above about the mmr matchmaker which most people don't even believe exists. I think it resorts to creating an avg mmr among teams but even that is not great since there is such a small playerbase the gap between teams is still wide. And one or two players can dominate the entire map.

The other problem is people sync dropping into solo qeue making it pointless. GW2 and LoL address that problem by heavily penalizing quitting. The excuse that "oh I crash or lose my connection" Is not an acceptable. TOO BAD imo.

https://youtube.com/channel/UCk7HIuVjHPLzqikp2h-ETCA

This guy is doing a lot of BG gameplay this patch.

oh a stamplar interesting.

Don't listen to all the misdirection. You can do 5k damage to someone with 25k health. They do not block, because that is shown to you and even if they did you still just did 5k damage.

However... regens are completely out of control currently. For stamina/magica it just destroys the resource management element of the game... ruining some game balance.

With health however it just ruins the game, because the burst you need becomes stupid and balancing healing/damage becomes impossible.

What you see is most likely a laggy version of you doing 5k and them healing it super fast.