Maintenance for the week of September 22:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 14:00 UTC (10:00AM EDT)

The no-proc tests and lag

milllaurie
milllaurie
✭✭✭✭
First of all I want to say I am really enjoying the test. PvP is player-versus-player again, not Player versus proc or "Vate beam break olympics".
Cheers to everyone who are pissed by this change. You just need to spend some more time in this game to understand why this is so good for pvp.

Now to the other aspect - lag. It is pretty obvious now that we had severe lag last night despite the procs being disabled.

I have no idea how much ZoS are playing their own game, but I am doing pvp every night.
I would like to discuss here thing that I as a player have noticed about the lag, maybe it can help identify the cause.

1. Lagging ususally starts when we have all factions poplocked an we have queue. If it is /// , locked, locked, there usually is no severe lags. Some occasional hiccups and delays but still pretty playable. When you have to queue for it however, it is usually pretty unplayable.
2. I tend to first notice the lag on objects, that the server is understanding as "NPCs":
  • Siege weapons take a few seconds to fire - after the initial button press it takes 1-4 secs for it to fire;
  • Keep/resource npc position get's screwed up. Everyone can target an npc, but no one can really deal damage to it apart from big aoes. After up to 10 secs the npc gets teleported to the coordinates server was thinking it was standing, then you can kill it;
  • Keep doors, walls. Breached doors/walls take their time to break and crumble after being damaged to 0 HP. Again - it can take quite a few seconds.
    It can also happen if you are trying to enter a door. It reacts after a few seconds, that's why we get frequent "Double doors" when it's laggy. Cause we spam that button :)
  • Interacting with merchants is very delayed too, just like the doors;
  • Pets get very drunk during the laggy time too. Blast bones, sub assaults (that too! we get slo-mo animations and even more delayed damage), sorc pets etc have trouble pathfinding.
3. Only AFTER I notice the weird behavior in points 1. and 2. I start noticing delays in my skills, barswaps and such. We start getting rubber banding and players teleporting after a ping spike.

If I have missed something - please feel free to comment, I will edit my post to keep it updated.
My personal suspicion is the lags are caused by, let's simply put it like this: Too many npcs are engaged at one time, be it actual npcs, ballistas or keep doors. Anything that has a behavior determined by some sort of AI.
It works well when there are 30 people in Cyrodiil and every npc can simply follow their pre-determined paths. But it all changes when npcs in several capturables have to react - every NPC at Rayles outer is aggroed, when there are 20 ballistas at Chalman and a second breach on Ash wall.
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    milllaurie wrote: »
    First of all I want to say I am really enjoying the test. PvP is player-versus-player again, not Player versus proc or "Vate beam break olympics".
    Cheers to everyone who are pissed by this change. You just need to spend some more time in this game to understand why this is so good for pvp.

    Now to the other aspect - lag. It is pretty obvious now that we had severe lag last night despite the procs being disabled.

    I have no idea how much ZoS are playing their own game, but I am doing pvp every night.
    I would like to discuss here thing that I as a player have noticed about the lag, maybe it can help identify the cause.

    1. Lagging ususally starts when we have all factions poplocked an we have queue. If it is /// , locked, locked, there usually is no severe lags. Some occasional hiccups and delays but still pretty playable. When you have to queue for it however, it is usually pretty unplayable.
    2. I tend to first notice the lag on objects, that the server is understanding as "NPCs":
    • Siege weapons take a few seconds to fire - after the initial button press it takes 1-4 secs for it to fire;
    • Keep/resource npc position get's screwed up. Everyone can target an npc, but no one can really deal damage to it apart from big aoes. After up to 10 secs the npc gets teleported to the coordinates server was thinking it was standing, then you can kill it;
    • Keep doors, walls. Breached doors/walls take their time to break and crumble after being damaged to 0 HP. Again - it can take quite a few seconds.
      It can also happen if you are trying to enter a door. It reacts after a few seconds, that's why we get frequent "Double doors" when it's laggy. Cause we spam that button :)
    • Interacting with merchants is very delayed too, just like the doors;
    • Pets get very drunk during the laggy time too. Blast bones, sub assaults (that too! we get slo-mo animations and even more delayed damage), sorc pets etc have trouble pathfinding.
    3. Only AFTER I notice the weird behavior in points 1. and 2. I start noticing delays in my skills, barswaps and such. We start getting rubber banding and players teleporting after a ping spike.

    If I have missed something - please feel free to comment, I will edit my post to keep it updated.
    My personal suspicion is the lags are caused by, let's simply put it like this: Too many npcs are engaged at one time, be it actual npcs, ballistas or keep doors. Anything that has a behavior determined by some sort of AI.
    It works well when there are 30 people in Cyrodiil and every npc can simply follow their pre-determined paths. But it all changes when npcs in several capturables have to react - every NPC at Rayles outer is aggroed, when there are 20 ballistas at Chalman and a second breach on Ash wall.

    I agree no procs is a lot more fun.

    I agree the lag is bad and with all your observations.

    These issues were next to non existent before the release u25, before we had to redownload the game. This was sold as a performance improvement, but was very clearly a ruse to change the way the game runs to accommodate more server side calculations. This coincided with the release of stadia and the game has run terribly since.

    The developers know why performance is worse. Changing the way combat functions will never solve this IMO. Only reverting changes in u25 will achieve this. If stadia needs to be dropped to do this then please do.

    My apologies to any stadia players.
  • Trayyacakes
    Trayyacakes
    ✭✭✭✭
    Blaming a specific patch for the performance has always amused me because this game has never been able to deliver on what it's promised PvP wise. Large group v group has always caused server issues... It's gotten worse over the years but to blamte one specific patch for the current state is ignoring that they've had issues from day one.
    Bjorn Uldnost
  • UrbanMonk
    UrbanMonk
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stadia will be the downfall of ESO if nothing else. When existing platform don't function properly, you dont go adding another.
    Urban.Monk

    -Monk I- Magden- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Tsürügi- MagBlade- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Bantam Bomber- MagPlar- AVA28
    -Hot Nöödle- MagDK - AVA37
    -Pablo Necrobar- StamCro- AVA24



    youtube.com/c/UrbanMonkGaming
    Easiest mDK for vMA and vVH- https://youtu.be/dUxQO1FO1XQ

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Balance for the Sake of Balance is no Balance at all.
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sounds like the reason we see no deer in Cyrodill anymore
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • Drakenheim
    Drakenheim
    ✭✭
    The lag is appalling on PC EU, I play in Ravenwatch, but understand from friends that it's the same everywhere.

    It's not just when "NPCs" are in play - I've had open space, running battles where all of the following didn't work:-

    Bar swap, skills, ultimates, gap closers, AOEs, potions - basically, anything you need to fight with!! The ball groups are still OP and healing outside a group isn't happening because healer skills aren't firing either.

    Cheaters are still cheating, so there is still lag.

    RIP PvP
    @Izzy_D - PC/EU
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Blaming a specific patch for the performance has always amused me because this game has never been able to deliver on what it's promised PvP wise. Large group v group has always caused server issues... It's gotten worse over the years but to blamte one specific patch for the current state is ignoring that they've had issues from day one.

    In general I do agree with you that from patch to patch it's basically been more of the same: terrible performance.

    That being said, I do think there were two updates that ZOS most certainly did something: update 2 (the "Lighting Patch") and update 25. Update 25 is something of a mystery. When ZOS first released the patch, it was the first time I ever felt that performance was genuinely better. Of course, we crashed after 10 minutes of playing in cyrodiil (perhaps the reason why it was better). Once the "fix" came, it was noticeably worse than it had been before.
    Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.
  • milllaurie
    milllaurie
    ✭✭✭✭
    Blaming a specific patch for the performance has always amused me because this game has never been able to deliver on what it's promised PvP wise. Large group v group has always caused server issues... It's gotten worse over the years but to blamte one specific patch for the current state is ignoring that they've had issues from day one.

    In general I do agree with you that from patch to patch it's basically been more of the same: terrible performance.

    That being said, I do think there were two updates that ZOS most certainly did something: update 2 (the "Lighting Patch") and update 25. Update 25 is something of a mystery. When ZOS first released the patch, it was the first time I ever felt that performance was genuinely better. Of course, we crashed after 10 minutes of playing in cyrodiil (perhaps the reason why it was better). Once the "fix" came, it was noticeably worse than it had been before.

    Thing is - there is stuff that is calculated server-side and some stuff is done client side.
    Stuff that is done in the client can be manipulated and sent back to the server. An example of that is - player XYZ position is calculated in the client. That's why we occasionaly see some flying people, players clipping through terrain and attacking others through floor textures, etc. Also that's why we get some teleporting players when server hiccups. The coordinates are refreshed after a server ping spike and some players change position.
    My guess is patch 25 tried putting some of the other calculations in the client to reduce server load. For example let's say they did recoveries. Or resistances. Maybe all stats? That would make them very easy to manipulate and give yourself for example 10k stam recovery and 50k resistances.
  • aetherial_heavenn
    aetherial_heavenn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lots of lag complaints on PCNA Greyhost. Lag was 360 with spikes to 600 even on flags with no one nearby. Big keep fights exactly the same.This was 4pm to 6pm AEST. So well off peak NA time. In fact I logged straight into Cyrodil with no wait time. A bit later it got stable for me at 340. Others said it was stable for them but a lot higher than usual.

    For me there were weird no skills working as usual. One time everything rendered only when I was inside a zerg..that was fun. Potions, doors, and barswaps and anything with a cast time were worst affected. But they always are for me.

    However the no procs part was fun. So good to kill groups and PvE zergs with actual skills. I shoved on 1x Domi, 1x Chudan 5 piece MS and 5 trans and wasted the 5th piece bonus on that because that was all that was on me at login. So def not meta.

    I expect lots of HA and dot builds because of lag and no procs.

    OBSERVATION: bad lag could be bad because of power outages in texas.




    Edited by aetherial_heavenn on 17 February 2021 08:53
    Quoted for truth
    "In my experience, the elite ones have not been very toxic, and the toxic ones not very elite." WrathOfInnos
  • merevie
    merevie
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lag was so legendary, news reached the about 20k of us who have decamped to Viking longships.

    The choice between redoing all cp and gear for 3wks and something else...something else wins.

    Let's hope that these tests solve the problem because everyone is well and truly over it.
    Edited by merevie on 17 February 2021 18:22
  • Morgul667
    Morgul667
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am excited about no procs sets pvp
  • Komputerheld
    Komputerheld
    ✭✭✭
    As a player that doesn´t frequently looks into forums or pts-notes, I really miss a broader communications to just-fun-players, like tooltips or something.

    Is the No-Proc-Test still running... or do I suffer only from very bad RNG? Really annoying, I played an hour with numerous contact with smurfs and bananas but Selene won´t proc in cyro any more, ... but Calurions legacy in imperial city worked with other char fine....
  • Cyrdemaceb17_ESO
    Cyrdemaceb17_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    As a player that doesn´t frequently looks into forums or pts-notes, I really miss a broader communications to just-fun-players, like tooltips or something.

    Is the No-Proc-Test still running... or do I suffer only from very bad RNG? Really annoying, I played an hour with numerous contact with smurfs and bananas but Selene won´t proc in cyro any more, ... but Calurions legacy in imperial city worked with other char fine....

    Proc sets disabled since Monday in Cyro PC, will be disabled for 3 weeks
    You can find a list of working sets in the Alliance War section

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/561180/feb-15-cyrodiil-test-details/p1
    Edited by Cyrdemaceb17_ESO on 18 February 2021 11:22
  • Komputerheld
    Komputerheld
    ✭✭✭
    Ok, thank you!
  • PetrKerosinOlej
    PetrKerosinOlej
    Soul Shriven
    e
    Edited by PetrKerosinOlej on 6 March 2021 14:59
Sign In or Register to comment.