The worst part about proc sets and werewolves is that they carry so many players that would be not as good without them. On there own they aren't really a problem its when they're stacked with other proc sets or classes etc. Such as Crimson+Werewolf, Sheer Venom+Syvarras/Venomous Smite or Magblades with Caluurions+Flame Blossom. A lot of them have very little counterplay and are very unfun to play against but super rewarding for the people using them. I can't wait for the tests when they remove them because it will actually show who can play the game themselves rather than their gear doing it for them.

Kory wrote: »

Well personal experience is misinformation according to some people.

Your initial claim was, and I quote:

The tether doesn't even break when you get line of sight. Gotta be 35k health and up and good healing utility to even compete with that.

My statement was different, since I acknowledged the possibility that Solariken (and others, including yourself) could very well be experiencing a bug that I haven't seen before. That's not the same as making a blanket, caveat-free statement that the tether isn't broken by LOS, which is clearly false.

We've probably all experienced positional desyncs in PvP from time to time (which could also possibly be the cause of the Vateshran Destruction Staff's tether seemingly going through LOS). These desyncs can lead to being hit by Dizzying Swings that come from, on one person's screen, either far outside of melee range or around corners/other LOS. Would it not be misinformation if I then claimed that Dizzying Swing's actual range was 12 meters, and/or that it was an ability which wasn't affected by LOS?

Kory wrote: »

Vateshran Destro staff It's very easy to proc, and it's damage over time that ticks per second 2k+/3k+ and even more with Malacath's band whilst the damage scales up each time it deals damage, which is every second...We can talk about a 6 condition 2h proc weapon with burst though. No problem it's easy to proc with a good burst for added punch to a combo.
But the staff to me is gross. Very strong to use right now with very little effort to be overly effective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy4kcMsKqqY

Damage on a target dummy isn't the same as damage in actual PvP, and it's certainly interesting that the video's creator shows some Combat Metrics stats on the former, but not the latter. I've looked at my own combat metrics from actual PvP, and the total damage of Vateshran's DOT is generally very similar to that of the BRP Destruction Staff on a single target (BRP ticks are in the ballpark of twice as high, but tick once every 2 seconds).

To compare the two staves a bit:
1) The BRP Staff's DOT can be cleansed, Vateshran's cannot.

2) The BRP Staff's DOT is unaffected by LOS or range once applied, while Vateshran's tether will be broken by both. And as an AOE, the BRP DOT can even be applied to targets that are out of LOS, if they close enough to a ground-target location that the caster can see.

3) The BRP Staff's DOT can be applied to multiple targets simultaneously in a single GCD, while Vateshran's tether is single target unless someone else sits in the beam.

4) The BRP Staff's DOT has no cooldown, while Vateshran's is 10 seconds (and not just per-target, like some "procs").

5) The BRP Staff can be used to hard-counter cloak, rather than being hard-countered by it like Vateshran is. Using the BRP Destruction Staff means that one is using an AOE direct damage ability, which can obviously be used as an anti-cloak ability, but each and every DOT tick will also break it. I assume that this is a bug, but it's actually been this way for quite some time now.

These differences are probably why I saw a fair number of BRP Destruction Staves during the PC-NA Battlegrounds tournament, but don't remember any other Vateshran Staves besides my own. When up against good premade teams with actual coordination, it's very difficult to keep the beam connected for long enough to actually matter - especially when there's a ton of Bombard spam and you're on a class without a gap closer.

I'm not saying that the Vateshran Destruction Staff is "bad," because it certainly isn't. But a lot of its detractors overstate its value and ignore its downsides.

It's also misleading to refer to the Vateshran 2h weapon as a "6 condition" proc, as though that were an actual impediment to its usage. If you're utilizing the weapon in question, you're going to be keeping Rally up and using other Stamina-costing abilities anyway, so building stacks isn't actually much of an issue. You can trigger the AOE DD proc from either bar, and can have it stacked with an off-balance stun (thanks to Dizzying Swing), delayed damage ability, and Dawnbreaker all in the exact same singular GCD. It might not reach the same amount of Battleground scoreboard damage than the Vateshran Destruction Staff does (at least in non-premade games), but it's absolutely better at actually landing kills.

Btw 2h vate is triggered by medium attack

Play a magdk without procs against a stamden/stamcro without procs.
Both with the same hands. If you kill him once in a 100 duels I buy you a beer.

The problem atm is the unbalance with clases, and a lot of them needs procs to try to handle that.

I play a heavy attack Templar build in BGs and have literally never had a BG this patch where it did not perform really well—with a pretty large sample size of matches. Usually I’m the top performer in the BG. And that includes BGs where people are running “meta” proc sets and/or going WW. So you can definitely carve out your own niche build that can absolutely be competitive. There’s actually something of an inherent advantage to using a non-meta build in that people don’t really have in their heads how to counter it. And if you use your own niche build a lot, you get better with it. I’ve used heavy attack builds in PvP for a long time, and I know my build super well so that helps me perform well with it. I’m not a particularly good player overall, but I do think I’m a good player at utilizing this build to its fullest.

And out of the two most effective players I’ve come across in BGs recently, one of them wasn’t even running procs at all. It was a magsorc just running normal magsorc stuff as far as I could tell, but is just extremely good. So, player skill absolutely does come into the equation quite a lot still.

That said, I almost exclusively have played Templar this patch, so maybe I just don’t mind the procs as much because I’ve got Extended Ritual.

Qbiken wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

WW
Heavy Attack build
Thews

There's a few viable builds that arent exactly what you mentioned (though close lol)

But, all the "elites" would definitely say go proc or go home

WW is most likely out of BGs PvP meta next patch. They nerf defenses, so they will be less tanky and health regen & stacking builds won't be as effective. I mean I hope that will be the case.

As some one who played WW in the past in pvp and now I focus more on pve, I think it nice to see ZOS making "a nerf" instead of grabing nerf hammer and smashing everything into the ground, making it useless in other parts of the game.

It is still not the final live version as we have more rounds of PTS ahead, but if current version would go live, I think you will not see WW often in BGs. All that will left is Wardens, Necros and maybe DKs with new crazy health regen CP... but that will most likely get nerfed too.

Werewolf is even tankier and harder to kill on PTS than they're on live (not taking CP into consideration).

How are they tankier ?

On live they had 10k resistances that you could buff further (with sets like chudan). Now it will not stack. Also Alessian builds won't be as good as you have less resistances that translate to less hp recovery.

I do not understand how it can be tankier, especially with no CP.

Bigger overall resource pools which allows you to move attributes to HP. More HP means stronger heals.

Free major resolve means you don't have to use mighty chudan anymore which opens up to use monster sets that makes you even harder to kill (malubeth, pirate skeleton, troll king).

The resistance loss will make absolutely no difference. And the change to alessia only affects those extreme 45-50k + resistance werewolfs anyway.

As long as werewolf has access to an HP based heal their survivability will be overperforming. It needs to go.

Let's not forget the 10% mit being transferred to the character @ level 50 and the up to 14% mit while CC immune in heavy. armour. Plenty of tankability sticking around.

mattaeus01b16_ESO wrote: »

Im literally running into groups of 4 premades with all they same gear and set ups.. They ball up and run over you in BGs. Not fun. Made a list of @names so that when our group sees then, we just all leave the BG.

Lol imagine playing in the team queue and seeing coordinated teams...

Some proc set ups are just broken on certain classes. Example: zaan malacath vateshraan on a Dk that uses fossilise. That pressure is going to get you, no matter how many times you break the beam.

Sucks seeing a death recap:

2-3k whips LOL
4K dot that ticked 8 times LOL
5k leap LMAO
20k zaan.... wait
8k vateshraan 3 ticks??

Cmon