Would leagues improve level 50 battlegrounds?

Araneae6537 · December 2020

Right now, if like me you find <50 battlegrounds fun and challenging, hitting level 50 is like hitting a brick wall or tumbling over a cliff — choose your metaphor. Surely I am not the only person this discourages? I do want a challenge and expect to die plenty but the speed at which I am killed, compared to <50 despite having much better gear now that I’m 50, it just isn’t fun.

GW2 has PvP very similar to ESO and my understanding is that players who have more wins are pitted against one another. During seasons, I believe players also move up and down rankings that way and where you finish a season determines your reward. When I played SWTOR some years ago, there was a ranked tier you could queue for (I forget what it was called) that was deathmatch only and you had to have a minimum of a PvP specific stat to even queue for. Again there were rankings and, if you won, better rewards.

What do you think? Would ESO benefit from a system like any of these or perhaps something I’ve not thought of? The idea is to have those less skilled in BGs pitted against one another and maybe extra rewards and glory for those who triumph over other skilled opponents (maybe the latter already is a thing via leaderboards or something? Idk).

Jierdanit · December 2020

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Right now, if like me you find <50 battlegrounds fun and challenging, hitting level 50 is like hitting a brick wall or tumbling over a cliff — choose your metaphor. Surely I am not the only person this discourages? I do want a challenge and expect to die plenty but the speed at which I am killed, compared to <50 despite having much better gear now that I’m 50, it just isn’t fun.

GW2 has PvP very similar to ESO and my understanding is that players who have more wins are pitted against one another. During seasons, I believe players also move up and down rankings that way and where you finish a season determines your reward. When I played SWTOR some years ago, there was a ranked tier you could queue for (I forget what it was called) that was deathmatch only and you had to have a minimum of a PvP specific stat to even queue for. Again there were rankings and, if you won, better rewards.

What do you think? Would ESO benefit from a system like any of these or perhaps something I’ve not thought of? The idea is to have those less skilled in BGs pitted against one another and maybe extra rewards and glory for those who triumph over other skilled opponents (maybe the latter already is a thing via leaderboards or something? Idk).

As far as i know there is already an MMR system in BGs which should put players against enemies who have played a roughly similar amount of games.

ivramirez · December 2020

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Right now, if like me you find <50 battlegrounds fun and challenging, hitting level 50 is like hitting a brick wall or tumbling over a cliff — choose your metaphor. Surely I am not the only person this discourages? I do want a challenge and expect to die plenty but the speed at which I am killed, compared to <50 despite having much better gear now that I’m 50, it just isn’t fun.

GW2 has PvP very similar to ESO and my understanding is that players who have more wins are pitted against one another. During seasons, I believe players also move up and down rankings that way and where you finish a season determines your reward. When I played SWTOR some years ago, there was a ranked tier you could queue for (I forget what it was called) that was deathmatch only and you had to have a minimum of a PvP specific stat to even queue for. Again there were rankings and, if you won, better rewards.

What do you think? Would ESO benefit from a system like any of these or perhaps something I’ve not thought of? The idea is to have those less skilled in BGs pitted against one another and maybe extra rewards and glory for those who triumph over other skilled opponents (maybe the latter already is a thing via leaderboards or something? Idk).

ESO would benefit from ZOS having a person who actually play the game so he/she would understand the obvious problems that the community complains about in PvP.

ESO should be changing things in Bgs every month or two and we should have info about future changes more often but is not the case. BGs should be the place for ZOS to test the changes in pvp in small scale then take them to cyrodiil. An example of that is the cooldown system which should have been tested in BGs first and then in cyrodiil no the way the did it.

Araneae6537 · December 2020

Jierdanit wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Right now, if like me you find <50 battlegrounds fun and challenging, hitting level 50 is like hitting a brick wall or tumbling over a cliff — choose your metaphor. Surely I am not the only person this discourages? I do want a challenge and expect to die plenty but the speed at which I am killed, compared to <50 despite having much better gear now that I’m 50, it just isn’t fun.

GW2 has PvP very similar to ESO and my understanding is that players who have more wins are pitted against one another. During seasons, I believe players also move up and down rankings that way and where you finish a season determines your reward. When I played SWTOR some years ago, there was a ranked tier you could queue for (I forget what it was called) that was deathmatch only and you had to have a minimum of a PvP specific stat to even queue for. Again there were rankings and, if you won, better rewards.

What do you think? Would ESO benefit from a system like any of these or perhaps something I’ve not thought of? The idea is to have those less skilled in BGs pitted against one another and maybe extra rewards and glory for those who triumph over other skilled opponents (maybe the latter already is a thing via leaderboards or something? Idk).

As far as i know there is already an MMR system in BGs which should put players against enemies who have played a roughly similar amount of games.

Shouldn’t it rather be number of games won?

MurderMostFoul · December 2020

Just get purple CP160 gear once you hit level 50 (assuming you have at least 160 CP). Then build something tanky with sustain and proc sets and enter BGs. It won't be God mode, but you'll do well enough to start to learn how to succeed.

Frankly, with the issues that PVP has in this game, I'd be pretty upset to see any attention given specifically to sub-50 BGs. They are really only there to let players sample the mode prior to getting to level cap. There's really no hope to balance them. Anyone hoping to have a lasting and enjoyable BG experience should just get to level cap ASAP and go from there.

Araneae6537 · December 2020

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Just get purple CP160 gear once you hit level 50 (assuming you have at least 160 CP). Then build something tanky with sustain and proc sets and enter BGs. It won't be God mode, but you'll do well enough to start to learn how to succeed.

Frankly, with the issues that PVP has in this game, I'd be pretty upset to see any attention given specifically to sub-50 BGs. They are really only there to let players sample the mode prior to getting to level cap. There's really no hope to balance them. Anyone hoping to have a lasting and enjoyable BG experience should just get to level cap ASAP and go from there.

You misunderstand me (my fault for writing such a long rambling post!); I don’t think a change is needed in sub-50 BGs but that one could be helpful at level 50.

I do okay, win-some-lose-some, in sub-50 in hodgepodge and often out-levelled armor. So I was a bit disappointed to be destroyed at level 50 wearing full proper sets, etc! I’ve identified some of the mistakes I’ve made. Still, it is a steep learning curve being now thrown in with the sharks! O.O

MurderMostFoul · December 2020

Araneae6537 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Just get purple CP160 gear once you hit level 50 (assuming you have at least 160 CP). Then build something tanky with sustain and proc sets and enter BGs. It won't be God mode, but you'll do well enough to start to learn how to succeed.

Frankly, with the issues that PVP has in this game, I'd be pretty upset to see any attention given specifically to sub-50 BGs. They are really only there to let players sample the mode prior to getting to level cap. There's really no hope to balance them. Anyone hoping to have a lasting and enjoyable BG experience should just get to level cap ASAP and go from there.

You misunderstand me (my fault for writing such a long rambling post!), I don’t think a change is needed in sub-50 BGs but that one could be helpful post level 50.

HA, gotcha.

MMR is supposed to balance things out, but it's only minimally effective. But I'm afraid that introducing something more restrictive would increase matchmaking times too much. Just start tanky with sustain, and as you get the feel for BG combat, start swapping things for more damage.

Jierdanit · December 2020

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Right now, if like me you find <50 battlegrounds fun and challenging, hitting level 50 is like hitting a brick wall or tumbling over a cliff — choose your metaphor. Surely I am not the only person this discourages? I do want a challenge and expect to die plenty but the speed at which I am killed, compared to <50 despite having much better gear now that I’m 50, it just isn’t fun.

GW2 has PvP very similar to ESO and my understanding is that players who have more wins are pitted against one another. During seasons, I believe players also move up and down rankings that way and where you finish a season determines your reward. When I played SWTOR some years ago, there was a ranked tier you could queue for (I forget what it was called) that was deathmatch only and you had to have a minimum of a PvP specific stat to even queue for. Again there were rankings and, if you won, better rewards.

What do you think? Would ESO benefit from a system like any of these or perhaps something I’ve not thought of? The idea is to have those less skilled in BGs pitted against one another and maybe extra rewards and glory for those who triumph over other skilled opponents (maybe the latter already is a thing via leaderboards or something? Idk).

As far as i know there is already an MMR system in BGs which should put players against enemies who have played a roughly similar amount of games.

Shouldn’t it rather be number of games won?

think it is points gained, but you ofc can gain the same amount of points in a game you lose as in a game you win.

StarOfElyon · December 2020

Under 50 BG are probably better because a lot of game breaking items can't be used at lower levels. Like, who grinds for a mythic at under level 50.

Araneae6537 · December 2020

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Under 50 BG are probably better because a lot of game breaking items can't be used at lower levels. Like, who grinds for a mythic at under level 50.

The mythics aren’t available in any way under level 50 I don’t think. You can’t transmute a lower level one, which makes sense I think.

But generally agreed — fewer OP items; although the ridiculous proc sets can be transmuted at lower levels they are less common I think. I do also think there’s a greater range of player ability / experience in sub-50 BGs than in 50.

Araneae6537 · December 2020

Well, I still think some way of separating relative newbs from PVP pros in 50 BGs would help a LOT! I expect to die and lose plenty, sure, but in sub-50’s, most times I could have the fun of fighting for a while first. Now, in level 50, I am disabled and then killed right away EVERY TIME. I had might as well bring my PVE glass cannon for all the good my extra sustain does me.

Look, I know this means that I’M not any good, but I’ve done all I can to prepare and need practice with people closer to my ability level. As it is, I’m just a liability for the team I join and die too fast to learn anything other than that I don’t belong here.

I did PvP (roughly BG equivalent) in SWTOR and GW2 at lower level and max, but never ran into a wall like I have in ESO upon reaching level 50.

It occurs to me that my expectations are that if I were a better player, I’d have more fun prolonged fights as I often have in sub-50 BGs. Is that not the case or would I have to go beyond added sustain to full-on max-HP heavy armor tank to not be two shot?

MurderMostFoul · December 2020

@Araneae6537

Are you at CP160 with CP160 gear of purple quality or better, wearing complete item sets?

Juhasow · December 2020

Under 50 BG's may be fun (for those who define fun as killing rookies) but definietly not challenging. Let's be honest most people who queue there are unexperienced players without decent gear and sometimes even without a food buff who have no idea what to do. Killing them is not a challenge.

Araneae6537 · December 2020

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

@Araneae6537

Are you at CP160 with CP160 gear of purple quality or better, wearing complete item sets?

Yes and yes. I had hoped to do level 50 BGs with a mag sorcerer wearing Crafty Alfiq, Armor of the Seducer and Maw of the Infernal, all purple or better, mostly well-fitted and some impenetrable trait, triune and magicka glyphs. And I reference AlcastHQ and threads on this forum for my build. I think I’m just not good at it yet so I’m doing more sub-50’s on other characters and Cyrodill on my 50’s.

Juhasow wrote: »

Under 50 BG's may be fun (for those who define fun as killing rookies) but definietly not challenging. Let's be honest most people who queue there are unexperienced players without decent gear and sometimes even without a food buff who have no idea what to do. Killing them is not a challenge.

Not for you, I’m sure, but I’m still a PvP rookie. I get lost on some of the maps and don’t always know what is best to do!

I enjoy longer fights and close matches and am far from one of those nigh unkillable players running around.

I guess I just need to get better before I’m ought but a liability in level 50 BG’s.

MurderMostFoul · December 2020

@Araneae6537

Okay, if you're wanting to do magsorc, you've got adequate gear. I'd say aim for 25k health in BGs, 2.2k magicka recovery, swap to a defensive monster set (ideally engine guardian), then just learn to stay at range, and kite hard crutching on Streak.