What does the Elder Scrolls Universe have against Werwolves?!?!

Beastt · April 2014

I'm really at a crossroad here.

Not sure if it's just me or not, but it seems that the Elder Scrolls universe has something against Werewolves.
They always seem to limit the powers and put so many debuffs on them that it's almost like they place them there purely for aesthetic purposes.
The most recent examples of this have been the Werewolf/Vampire skill lines in "The Elder Scrolls Online".
Not only do you get access to vamp powers without having to ultimate morph, but you also get a vampire related ultimate on top of that.
With the werewolf skill line it's simply a case of, "surprise I'm a monster that can't effectively defend itself in any way that a werewolf can in almost every movie and lore that ever came out about them", which is topped of with a nice helping of "oh and by the way, we'll make it cost close to a THOUSAND points to even release the hindered beast." You could at least allow our characters to run faster or jump higher.
They made sure to give us weakness on top of weakness yet the so called payoff is LAUGHABLE. It's a shame that a person just about HAS to become a Vampire in order to be an effective scout. There are countless rants and raves that I could go on about the imbalance of the two skill lines but I'll leave it at that for now.
I still have to wonder though......WHAT DOES THE ELDER SCROLLS UNIVERSE HAVE AGAINST WEREWOLVES?!?!?!

joshweps · April 2014

werewolves are lame

Healzie · April 2014

joshweps wrote: »

werewolves are lame

Prove it?.. Please?

joshweps · April 2014

Twighlight

Healzie · April 2014

joshweps wrote: »

Twighlight

Not even going to continue this discussion any further.

Beastt · April 2014

I hadn't even got to the part about how short the time is for you to actively be a Werewolf in beast form. You have to do about 10-20 minutes of continuous fighting to get 15 seconds of wolf time.....where is the love?

ChampionSheWolf · April 2014

I have to agree that in TES at least in Skyrim, the werewolf was absolutely unplayable post level 20 in that game, requiring you to get mods that would fix the imbalances at least with monster power creep. Of course the werewolf is even more laughable here in ESO with the short duration of the transformation, outrageous cost of the power, difficulty in even leveling up the line, as well suffering full weaknesses without any benefits... and let's not even get into how laughable the werewolf actually looks especially compared to the actual beast you got to play in Skyrim. I don't get why they didn't just use the model and animations from Skyrim at least.

Beastt · April 2014

I completely agree. I can understand that some things may have had to be altered in order to maintain balance in the game, yet it is painfully obvious by the number of vampires running around that the playing field is nowhere near balanced. They almost make it seem like you should be punished for being a werewolf in the first place. They claimed to have made it that way for vampires as well, but those so called weaknesses are almost nonexistent through the use of equipment. I shall remain a werewolf but not because it's an awesome extension of the game, but simply because of my personal preference. Not sure how they could screw up something that is naturally awesome, but they've done a marvelous job at doing so.

AlexDougherty · April 2014

cbrown15_ESO wrote: »

I have to agree that in TES at least in Skyrim, the werewolf was absolutely unplayable post level 20 in that game, requiring you to get mods that would fix the imbalances at least with monster power creep. Of course the werewolf is even more laughable here in ESO with the short duration of the transformation, outrageous cost of the power, difficulty in even leveling up the line, as well suffering full weaknesses without any benefits... and let's not even get into how laughable the werewolf actually looks especially compared to the actual beast you got to play in Skyrim. I don't get why they didn't just use the model and animations from Skyrim at least.

I loved being a Werewolf in Skyrim, of course it was ridiculous when you transformed, having to constantly attack to keep your timer at max, bur it was fun. The pureblood vampire was better for play, but nowhere as much fun.

Not got to the point were you can become a werewolf or vampire yet, but I hope they fix the issues. They should be about equal overall, and if you don't have vampires dodging the sun, and still enjoying full benefits, then Werewolfs should get human form benefits too, more resilience, or an aptitude with some class of weapon.

The whole point of this being an MMO is that there should be balances between the various options we take, no one class/race/subcategory should be superior to any other, and at the moment being a Vampire gives a clear advantage.

nijino · April 2014

10-20 minutes of fighting? try three or 4 sets of mobs in packs of 5 and you have an ulty already. look at the ult building passives bro. As far as the ult slot, yea maybe it kinda sucks not having a class ult, but its not super important unless you really need a certain ability (speaking from a DK tank perspective) I usually just use dragon leap for *** anyways as I dont need any of the ults for tanking. if you build your toon around the ww, it becomes insanely strong, imagine a nightblade's flurry with dualwield 2h swords (thats an auto attack), an aoe fear, and then a 30 yard leap to immobilize you. lets not mention a sprint that you cant even outrun with your horse. the only downside is that a pvp toon spec'd well into a fighters guild tree will decimate you, hard. LOL but thats the fun of the game in my opinion.

Beastt · April 2014

nijino wrote: »

10-20 minutes of fighting? try three or 4 sets of mobs in packs of 5 and you have an ulty already. look at the ult building passives bro. As far as the ult slot, yea maybe it kinda sucks not having a class ult, but its not super important unless you really need a certain ability (speaking from a DK tank perspective) I usually just use dragon leap for *** anyways as I dont need any of the ults for tanking. if you build your toon around the ww, it becomes insanely strong, imagine a nightblade's flurry with dualwield 2h swords (thats an auto attack), an aoe fear, and then a 30 yard leap to immobilize you. lets not mention a sprint that you cant even outrun with your horse. the only downside is that a pvp toon spec'd well into a fighters guild tree will decimate you, hard. LOL but thats the fun of the game in my opinion.

I can see where you are coming from, however there are a few points that I would like to touch on.
The passives for gaining the ultimate are a miniscule "get a few points every 3 seconds by taking damage as long as the werewolf ultimate is slotted". This may sound good on paper, but any fight that is lasting longer than 10-30 seconds isn't going to be one where the transformation would be wise. ESO has done a wonderful job at making sure the enemies you face aren't pushovers so if you think you are going to sit there and take it until the ulti is up, you're gonna have a bad time, lol.
Second, the sprint would be fine and all....but let's be real, werewolf form last less than a minute so the only sprinting you'll be doing is trying to find another "humanoid" target so you can hopefully last another 15 seconds.
As for the "packs of 5 enemies", there are hardly any locations that spawn packs of 5 in close proximity that would allow you to get your ulti in that manner. In fact, I guarantee that once you make it to Veteran Ranked content, packs of 5 of anything will have you fighting for your life, setting aside the want to gain an ulti, lol. My character had ALL 49 points placed into stamina and although the werewolf hit hard.....it could only kill 2 or 3 people due to the limited time and having to get to the next target.

nijino · April 2014

well ill be damned if an ult ability could get me 3 kills in one go. just saying. but in all seriousness, if it didnt cut off, it would be too strong, wouldnt you agree? maybe some optimizing is due, but its not terrible

Beastt · April 2014

Well at almost a thousand points needed I would like it to last a bit longer than it does, lol. I see your point though as I have before, it's just that they seem to really be shafting the Werewolf lovers out there. I'd be happy with even a small tweak like allowing a slight increase in speed or a higher jump, it doesn't hurt the game and would actually be on the level with most, if not all, werewolf lore.

nijino · April 2014

personally I'd *** bricks if they let you create packs similar to guilds and only for werewolves with more perks, and then it said who bit you, or give you perks with players you bit that you dont share with different "lineage" of werewolf, as specific race biology would make the werewolf different, ya know? just add in customization cosmetically, or as you progress thru the days/months/years of real game time, your werewolf can morph his look to add a certain seniority aspect.

Beastt · April 2014

nijino wrote: »

personally I'd *** bricks if they let you create packs similar to guilds and only for werewolves with more perks, and then it said who bit you, or give you perks with players you bit that you dont share with different "lineage" of werewolf, as specific race biology would make the werewolf different, ya know? just add in customization cosmetically, or as you progress thru the days/months/years of real game time, your werewolf can morph his look to add a certain seniority aspect.

I love that idea! That would be so awesome while at the same time not breaking the game by making it overpowered. If it's going to have such a limited practical use, then at least make it look nice, lol.

nijino · April 2014

exactly. i couldnt agree more, there are just some aspects of the game that have to be understood. in every mmo, pvp-wise, theres never a balance. so atleast make werewolves more fun and a worthy investment for the future, because im in it for the long haul. A simple cosmetic customization like that would make me forget about everything while i was heavily immersed in Role Play for hours on end, lmao.

***daily pack quest***, the great hunt. requiring you to rally up your pack and hunt/kill ----insert random elite mob name here---. (im drooling) or attack a fighters guild establishment, or something

Miradhor · April 2014

We should get some bonuses to reflect our animal sides in human form for sure. Another thing I kind of hate about werewolf is that we don't sprint on all fours, it looks goofy as hell sprinting on just the hind legs.

SunfireKnight86 · April 2014

Stamina builds do insane damage as Werewolves. Like, stupidly insane damage. Kill me in two hits damage. I don't see that as underpowered.

If you get 4 of them rolling deep in PvP they can wipe half a raid group in no time at all.

The problem of cost to transform- as you pointed out- is most noticeable in PvP. So you turn, nail half a raid, die, come back as human... and have to fight for 20 minutes until you can do it again. Maybe for balance, but then why can a vamp DK take out half a raid group solo without any of the same sort cooldown like that?

Beastt · April 2014

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Stamina builds do insane damage as Werewolves. Like, stupidly insane damage. Kill me in two hits damage. I don't see that as underpowered.

If you get 4 of them rolling deep in PvP they can wipe half a raid group in no time at all.

The problem of cost to transform- as you pointed out- is most noticeable in PvP. So you turn, nail half a raid, die, come back as human... and have to fight for 20 minutes until you can do it again. Maybe for balance, but then why can a vamp DK take out half a raid group solo without any of the same sort cooldown like that?

Those are great points that you highlight. As I've mentioned before, I hit very hard as a VR3 Werewolf...but I've yet to test it out in pvp because I can't maintain the points it takes to charge the ultimate. I would even be fine with the amount if they made it to where Werewolves didn't lose their points gained towards ultimate whenever they aren't fighting. I've been told that when not in combat, your ulti points go back to zero, well wouldn't it at least be fair to just give us that much and let us keep our points earned?

john1350b16_ESO · April 2014

Why the *** does not werewolfs ''sprint'' on all four is my question to zenimax.. who made the decision to have them run on two legs?!><
and no leap animation? i think they rushed werewolfs before the release.
Werewolfs are NOT complete! They can't be!

SeeD · April 2014

agree, Werewolve and stamina is *** in this game

MasterLanz · April 2014

>.> People who complained about WW in skyrim just had no idea how to use WW in skyrim. Even on legendary difficulty going up to level 80, werewolf could take a huge chunk out of a target's health with a sprinting power attack (if not one-shot it outright), and after the perk investments in dawnguard, the roar worked on almost everything that wasn't a dragon. I massacred everything I ran into in werewolf form by basically doing hit-and-run attacks while using the roar for crowd control. Even after installing Requiem (which nerfed the roar through the dirt and made you super-vulnerable to bows), I could still use the summoning roar for CC while taking down targets. WW was my room-clearer in skyrim and my only problem was having to stop and wait in order to turn it off, and not being able to loot anything in ww form.'

Ugh... Now I want to go play Skyrim so I can enjoy being a werewolf.

Beastt · April 2014

I couldn't agree more. All in all I'm just going to sit back and hope that the expansions will bring something fresh with the skill tree. Otherwise, I'll be curing myself and making room for something I can actually benefit from.

7788b14_ESO · April 2014

Vampires got some love, werewolves didn't. Vampire quest can be done at lower levels, werewolf can't, on and on.