Proposed correction of the Cyrodiil map

Tigor · October 2020

Cropsford and Harluns should be swapped. Both Winter's Peak and Harluns are positioned to the EP home keeps. Carmala is positioned to the DC home forts, and no outpost is positioned to AD home castles. Clearly a disadvantage to the EP and DC, because outposts are easier to defent then towns, and so that is a serious threat to our scrolls.

This can be added to the punch list of Cyodiilic changes

alterfenixeb17_ESO · October 2020

Not going to happen, sorry. Cropsford has been know to exist in this area since Oblivion so moving it anywhere to the north of Drake could be seen as something going against the lore.

Also as much as Harlun's position looks awkward it is still that the best way is usually to hit first Drake and then Harlun regardless if attacking party if EP, DC or AD. Same goes btw for the other two borders. Also keep in mind that primary way of defending scrolls lies still in defending keeps and not outposts really. Outpost can just provide you respawn point really should you wipe while defending Fara or Kings for instance (so that your party can respawn and hit Arrius).

Tigor · October 2020

Should the lore be leading? They say it is written, and therefore true. Can harluns not be turned in a town and Cropsford in an outpost. Just keep the name on the spot, only change the strategic significance to make it a bit more fair. We lose a lot of pace when harluns is yellow and our scrolls are missing. When bringing our scroll back, our supply line is easily cut when Cropsford is contested. That can be done by one player. I think to have a good point here, Pact has a disadvantage.

Ackwalan · October 2020

The problem with Harluns placement, is that it gives AD and easy port deep into EP's territory. If Drakelow and Harlun is yellow, the BRK, Arrius and Farra are in easy reach.

SgtNuttzmeg · October 2020

If you think the locations of towns and forts have any impact on the alliance wars you are really off track have little understanding of what wins campaigns. We just came off a year of EP winning back to back campaigns in Greyhost NA. The better guilds rarely go to these locations anyways. What win's campaigns is whichever faction has the most good ball groups stacked in the major fights and whoever has the most active night capping guilds.

Taleof2Cities · October 2020

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

If you think the locations of towns and forts have any impact on the alliance wars you are really off track have little understanding of what wins campaigns. We just came off a year of EP winning back to back campaigns in Greyhost NA. The better guilds rarely go to these locations anyways. What win's campaigns is whichever faction has the most good ball groups stacked in the major fights and whoever has the most active night capping guilds.

You're right, @SgtNuttzmeg.

We get one of these "map strategy" threads once a month like clockwork.

Checked it off the list and flipping the clipboard page to end of November ...

xshatox · October 2020

Ackwalan wrote: »

The problem with Harluns placement, is that it gives AD and easy port deep into EP's territory. If Drakelow and Harlun is yellow, the BRK, Arrius and Farra are in easy reach.

This is true, Harlun position is a bit kore startegic compared to WP or carmala. Harlun located closest to EP inner keep compared wp or carmala to dc’s or ad inner keep. The ride also mostly flat and no barrier from the outpost. The other 2 outpost at least have barrier that can be destroyed and people will notice when repaired.

This is why ad strategy when about to get ep scroll or get their scroll back is take harlun as staging ground since ep will think only few people taking it, easier than starting at brk.

SgtNuttzmeg · October 2020

xshatox wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

The problem with Harluns placement, is that it gives AD and easy port deep into EP's territory. If Drakelow and Harlun is yellow, the BRK, Arrius and Farra are in easy reach.

This is true, Harlun position is a bit kore startegic compared to WP or carmala. Harlun located closest to EP inner keep compared wp or carmala to dc’s or ad inner keep. The ride also mostly flat and no barrier from the outpost. The other 2 outpost at least have barrier that can be destroyed and people will notice when repaired.

This is why ad strategy when about to get ep scroll or get their scroll back is take harlun as staging ground since ep will think only few people taking it, easier than starting at brk.

PVDooring should never be your strategy and if it is you either are a Nightcapper or your likely not very good.

Tigor · October 2020

♪ The scope of this topic is an observation that could have been made by "my grandmother ", and that is by simply looking at the map, there are strategic differences in the positioning of these three outposts ♪

How to win a campaign is a different topic @SgtNuttzmeg, @Taleof2Cities. PvD during the "graveyard slots" can be done by everyone, and has no strategic advantage. According my extensive experience ball groups are only playing during "prime time" and the players in there want score a lot of AP, and are mosly devastated by a large number of accumulated players, with the incidental performance issues, that currently is in treatment with the tests (different topic).

If these kind of posts are recurrent, then a correction is well worth it at a later stage. ♥

SgtNuttzmeg · October 2020

Tigor wrote: »

♪ The scope of this topic is an observation that could have been made by "my grandmother ", and that is by simply looking at the map, there are strategic differences in the positioning of these three outposts ♪

How to win a campaign is a different topic @SgtNuttzmeg, @Taleof2Cities. PvD during the "graveyard slots" can be done by everyone, and has no strategic advantage. According my extensive experience ball groups are only playing during "prime time" and the players in there want score a lot of AP, and are mosly devastated by a large number of accumulated players, with the incidental performance issues, that currently is in treatment with the tests (different topic).

If these kind of posts are recurrent, then a correction is well worth it at a later stage. ♥

How is attacking when your enemies cannot defend themselves not creating a strategic advantage? What impacts your score more holding two extra forts a few hours during prime time or having control the entire map for 8 hours everytime people go to bed.

Consider this, most days of the week the servers will have up to 16-18 hrs of non-poplocked action. Meaning there is 16-18 hours where the scores are ticking and there may not be many people online. If we are talking strategy wise, taking advantage of these dead times is the best way to win Campaigns. It takes minimal effort, pretty much anybody can do it as you don't have to really fight anybody and it creates a situation where you don't have to win during primetime as you are getting more ticks.

If there is an strategic element of alliance wars that needs to change it is the fact that you can do this because realistically having a fort vs a town doesn't impact it nearly as much. As forts are fairly easy to capture and most good groups typically avoid these areas anyways.

As for your point of "how to win a campaign" not being relevant it definitely is. There are plenty of issues with Cyrodil. Most of which have existed for years and have bene neglected by the Devs but if we are to address them we should address them based on which ones impact players and campaigns the most. If there is an effective strategy that has consistently been demonstrated to win campaigns it should be addressed first before something that is relatively minor and realistically doesn't impact the campaigns nearly as much.

alterfenixeb17_ESO · October 2020

Tigor wrote: »

Should the lore be leading? They say it is written, and therefore true. Can harluns not be turned in a town and Cropsford in an outpost. Just keep the name on the spot, only change the strategic significance to make it a bit more fair. We lose a lot of pace when harluns is yellow and our scrolls are missing. When bringing our scroll back, our supply line is easily cut when Cropsford is contested. That can be done by one player. I think to have a good point here, Pact has a disadvantage.

But that is the whole point that making Cropsford an outpost would easily be seen and lore breaking. Check this out next time you play Oblivion.

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

♪ The scope of this topic is an observation that could have been made by "my grandmother ", and that is by simply looking at the map, there are strategic differences in the positioning of these three outposts ♪

How to win a campaign is a different topic @SgtNuttzmeg, @Taleof2Cities. PvD during the "graveyard slots" can be done by everyone, and has no strategic advantage. According my extensive experience ball groups are only playing during "prime time" and the players in there want score a lot of AP, and are mosly devastated by a large number of accumulated players, with the incidental performance issues, that currently is in treatment with the tests (different topic).

If these kind of posts are recurrent, then a correction is well worth it at a later stage. ♥

How is attacking when your enemies cannot defend themselves not creating a strategic advantage? What impacts your score more holding two extra forts a few hours during prime time or having control the entire map for 8 hours everytime people go to bed.

Consider this, most days of the week the servers will have up to 16-18 hrs of non-poplocked action. Meaning there is 16-18 hours where the scores are ticking and there may not be many people online. If we are talking strategy wise, taking advantage of these dead times is the best way to win Campaigns. It takes minimal effort, pretty much anybody can do it as you don't have to really fight anybody and it creates a situation where you don't have to win during primetime as you are getting more ticks.

If there is an strategic element of alliance wars that needs to change it is the fact that you can do this because realistically having a fort vs a town doesn't impact it nearly as much. As forts are fairly easy to capture and most good groups typically avoid these areas anyways.

As for your point of "how to win a campaign" not being relevant it definitely is. There are plenty of issues with Cyrodil. Most of which have existed for years and have bene neglected by the Devs but if we are to address them we should address them based on which ones impact players and campaigns the most. If there is an effective strategy that has consistently been demonstrated to win campaigns it should be addressed first before something that is relatively minor and realistically doesn't impact the campaigns nearly as much.

Pretty much this really. Also campaign is won not ofc just by number of ball groups in it but by side that can properly work together best. That may (but does not have to) involve some outposts from time to time given game is still about getting emperor in addition to scrolls (activity for which outposts are completely expendable really).

Joy_Division · November 2020

There are literally 101 things I'd rather ZoS invest into Cyrodiil.

Chaos2088 · November 2020

I get what you mean, make sense to swap them about, but lore reasons needs to be a town.

biminirwb17_ESO · November 2020

When the 3 new outposts were introduced there were lengthy discussions on their placement. I think ZoS got them correct.

Remembering we can now port to towns. AD with Sejanus and Cropsford outposts with bridges broken would be an EP nightmare.

alterfenixeb17_ESO · November 2020

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

When the 3 new outposts were introduced there were lengthy discussions on their placement. I think ZoS got them correct.

Remembering we can now port to towns. AD with Sejanus and Cropsford outposts with bridges broken would be an EP nightmare.

OP's statement is that outpost are somewhat harder to take and easier to defend which is ofc true providing there is anyone to defend. Otherwise of course outpost is just a bit longer to take (not really by much).