Perhaps a different perspective?

Earthewen · October 2020

Okay, so we have gone through almost what? 2 months of testing in cyro? We've already determined that lag is just as bad as ever. Now, the testing is extended and every change ZOS came up with is thrown at us all at the same time and why? Certainly not because it increases our fun because using us to beta test a 7-year-old-game is definitely NOT what I paid for and continue to pay for every month.

From what I can see, ZOS has proven over the series of the earlier tests that the changes to AOE's and groups made no difference at all. Whatever your hypothesis was, it was not proven at all. In fact, the lag and disconnects are just as bad if not worse for some people. The trust that we have bestowed on ZOS to listen to us, the players, was lost long ago when we all went over to the test server to help and our feedback was ignored. But I digress here.

Some things ZOS did not test that might be worth looking into with 2 more weeks of testing---Bugs, all bugs (maybe the bugs are the source of lag in first place). CC' cooldowns that are not working at all or working improperly. Stealth and mirror image/undo skills. Single target ability's might have a greater impact than you supposed. Who knows what one since you did not test even one. Solo, maybe running solo is more taxing on system than you supposed---regardless you would not know since you did not test it.

Another issue that might be causing an issue are the constant combat checking by the servers while we all STAY in combat forever. This, along with all the other unfixed bugs, might have a much larger impact than might be currently believed.

deamoria · October 2020

the test is worse than the bugs. The game is no longer fun to play.

Theignson · October 2020

They should give us one month free for beta-testing this past month

Iskaldt · October 2020

Couldnt agree more with this post. These tests have been nothing but a pain for us players, who are actually paying to play this BS...

Ackwalan · October 2020

ZOS has already determined that it's AOE's causing the problem, you can tell by what is being tested in the added weeks. Both weeks have 12 man groups and global cooldowns. The question is, will ZOS add a cost scaling to it. 12 man groups and global cooldowns are here to stay.

Iskaldt · October 2020

Ackwalan wrote: »

ZOS has already determined that it's AOE's causing the problem, you can tell by what is being tested in the added weeks. Both weeks have 12 man groups and global cooldowns. The question is, will ZOS add a cost scaling to it. 12 man groups and global cooldowns are here to stay.

Where have they said that 12 man groups and AoE cooldowns are here to stay ?
Tho i got a feeling you might be right its just spectulation untill they tell us what they are going to do.

Me personally am quitting the game if that is the case, as it totally ruins the combat system and its flow..

Ackwalan · October 2020

Iskaldt wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

ZOS has already determined that it's AOE's causing the problem, you can tell by what is being tested in the added weeks. Both weeks have 12 man groups and global cooldowns. The question is, will ZOS add a cost scaling to it. 12 man groups and global cooldowns are here to stay.

Where have they said that 12 man groups and AoE cooldowns are here to stay ?
Tho i got a feeling you might be right its just spectulation untill they tell us what they are going to do.

Me personally am quitting the game if that is the case, as it totally ruins the combat system and its flow..

Out of all the test, the only 2 things being brought back for a further testing are the 12 man groups and global cooldown, both are in the 2 retests.

Soul_Demon · October 2020

Ackwalan wrote: »

ZOS has already determined that it's AOE's causing the problem, you can tell by what is being tested in the added weeks. Both weeks have 12 man groups and global cooldowns. The question is, will ZOS add a cost scaling to it. 12 man groups and global cooldowns are here to stay.

I would highly doubt that ......the premise is flawed as is the testing. One of the worst things you could possibly do in testing anything is assume you know what the problem is and structure testing to support the hypothesis to exclusivity. You should structure tests to examine multiple aspects of the game regardless of what you 'theorize' is causing the problem to gather data. This is what ZOS has done with this two months of testing. They have not played the game in Cyro in many years so they use either outright guess work or other sources for what exactly the problem is, they then structured the tests to 'prove' the guess as to what the problems were with lag in the game.......trouble is they failed to find the source thus far---but because they dont play and only likely have one or two sources for 'ideas' on testing they continued to test the same things to see if they could 'prove' the hypothesis. This is a problem because its lagging now with groups limited just as bad as it usually does if not worse along with global cooldown testing.....this shows those are not the problem, NOT that it is the problem otherwise while its disabled the game would play smoothly- it doesn't. Virtually all the things they disabled failed to produce noticeable improvement in gameplay- but did work to get less people to want to play the game because its not fun to beta test for two months.

No man....this repeat and hyper focus on groups for the next two weeks as the other month an a half has been is simply them not using scientific method to determine the cause of the problems. They came into this figuring they would prove the hypothesis and when that didnt happen they went ahead and repeated the testing still hyper focused on the same things that will also not show what they hoped for .....a silver bullet to fix all lag. The very things they did not bother to test at all in two months will likely hold the keys to the problems- things like long standing bugs (there must be about 20-30 now) or being held in combat (every single player in game being held in combat indefinitely with all the checks that entails on server) not to mention all the cc's either not having immunity or outright malfunctioning. You cant find the problem if you only look in ONE spot for the issue, even if you do it for two months.

Earthewen · October 2020

Ackwalan wrote: »

Iskaldt wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

ZOS has already determined that it's AOE's causing the problem, you can tell by what is being tested in the added weeks. Both weeks have 12 man groups and global cooldowns. The question is, will ZOS add a cost scaling to it. 12 man groups and global cooldowns are here to stay.

Where have they said that 12 man groups and AoE cooldowns are here to stay ?
Tho i got a feeling you might be right its just spectulation untill they tell us what they are going to do.

Me personally am quitting the game if that is the case, as it totally ruins the combat system and its flow..

Out of all the test, the only 2 things being brought back for a further testing are the 12 man groups and global cooldown, both are in the 2 retests.

Well, here is the concern ... I've already played PvP in games where the group size was only 12 man or less. That isn't what I bought ESO for. It was advertised and purchased because of the large scale group on group play. Not zerg on zerg. The group size was initially up to 24 players but there was a minimum as well. That was changed to include small groups in later years when a Twitch player (and I cannot remember who it was) complained about it.

I have been asking ZOS throughout the years as I watched their changes if they were trying to get rid of the large groups, but of course, no one answered. 100's of people were supposed to be able to play together in PvP. ZOS has failed to deliver this promise over and over again. Have you, ZOS, abandoned this promise altogether? If you have, then you probably should just be upfront about it and just honestly tell us that is what you're doing. Otherwise, all we can do is speculate and everyone knows that the human imagination is usually much more extreme than the truth might be AND can do a lot more damage if the truth lingers in the shadows.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · October 2020

It doesn't matter about the 12 person limit. There are still faction stacks.

adirondack · October 2020

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

It doesn't matter about the 12 person limit. There are still faction stacks.

And the EP faction stacks are the best ones.

Earthewen · October 2020

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

It doesn't matter about the 12 person limit. There are still faction stacks.

Faction stacks aside, we aren't getting what was advertised to us when the game was released. I happen to like having my peeps all around me of which there are many. Leave the 12-man groups for trials.

Another point is what is the real goal here? To please the small-man players and solo guys who are screaming and whining all the time so that they can win? Everyone likes to push their own style of play in order to give themselves an advantage. People in this community have been doing it for years, and because they were the loudest wheel, ZOS usually gave in on lots of things throughout the game's existence.

Why don't we just roll everything back to the days before when it DIDN'T lag. Early players remember Cyro without lag up until the gold spammers were "decoded" out of the game. That is when the lag really took hold in Cyro.

To be completely honest, I have lost all faith in ZOS to fix PvP. What a shame, too. This had the potential of being the best group on group PvP experience in any MMO. But because of either neglect or pacifying crying babies, ZOS has all but destroyed the best and one of only a few large group PvP experiences in the world.

No doubt about it. In their (fill in the blank here), they have killed goose that laid the golden eggs. PvP was as addictive as crack. How many players did they lose as a result? No one will ever truly know.

Hexquisite · October 2020

Agree with OP!

Last night we had the same Friday night lag we always do.
Why not test these other things?

Earthewen · October 2020

Hexquisite wrote: »

Agree with OP!

Last night we had the same Friday night lag we always do.
Why not test these other things?

I'm not really sure why they don't. I mean if they aren't getting any usable knowledge with anything they've done so far, why not test these other things? Not one thing has been said about the animation cancelling either. Could the speed of skills going through far faster than intended be a bit like trying to stuff a watermelon down the neck of a beer bottle?

Just askin' ...

fred4 · October 2020

Earthewen wrote: »

Some things ZOS did not test that might be worth looking into with 2 more weeks of testing---Bugs, all bugs (maybe the bugs are the source of lag in first place).

I can only agree with this. For example why is it that ultimates don't activate in a timely fashion? They just don't. This feels like lag, but it's been a problem for years and is probably a bug. I got zerged down recently hammering Corrosive Armor and it wouldn't activate for something like 5 seconds, by which time it was, of course, too late. Checked ultimate level upon revival: 350 and on the the correct bar. Having played the game for so long you tend to forget, or worse, accept things like this - or lump them in with general lag when it's not actually the case.

LarsS · October 2020

I agree these test shows no improvement on the player side its just not fun to play any longer.

We know that the player base have expanded so I would like to know if the megaserver are the problem or the communication solutions. Maybe zos should test to run pvp on a compleetly separate server.

Earthewen · October 2020

LarsS wrote: »

I agree these test shows no improvement on the player side its just not fun to play any longer.

We know that the player base have expanded so I would like to know if the megaserver are the problem or the communication solutions. Maybe zos should test to run pvp on a compleetly separate server.

I'm not sure at all that the pvp population has expanded. Pve, maybe, but it seems to me the populations are less. They've even had to shut down the number of servers over the years just to have enough people on fewer servers to keep the fights going.

AbraXuSeXile · October 2020

Id rather lag than do the tests. Honestly.