AvA collusion and ZOS ToS

Stinkyremy · October 2020

Long story short some guy sent me an image of various players in cyrodiil AvA on different alliances working together, collusion. I mentioned (in an impolite way as we are IRL friends) that it's terrible ect that they are working together, wasting sever space and not contributing to the alliance war.
Now apparently I have been mass reported...

So what is the ToS in AvA? I was under the impression that working together in AvA is against ToS, bannable offence!
Am I correct?

idk · October 2020

It is not against the TOS to help players from across alliances. We have been doing this since the game came out, which ironically was when all campaigns were alliance locked.

Beyond that, the situation OP speaks of is overly generalized so we really do not know what the specific issue they are speaking to is. We certainly have no idea what lead to them being "mass reported" as considering there are two sides to every story, we have yet to hear the first side here.

If you see something you question being legit activity then take SS/record it and report it to Zos. After that, move along.

Stinkyremy · October 2020

idk wrote: »

It is not against the TOS to help players from across alliances. We have been doing this since the game came out, which ironically was when all campaigns were alliance locked.

Beyond that, the situation OP speaks of is overly generalized so we really do not know what the specific issue they are speaking to is. We certainly have no idea what lead to them being "mass reported" as considering there are two sides to every story, we have yet to hear the first side here.

If you see something you question being legit activity then take SS/record it and report it to Zos. After that, move along.

I'm not reporting at all. I don't really care but i was under the assumption working together cross alliance in the server was against the ToS.
I know that helping each other to farm AP is.

idk · October 2020

It is not against the ToS in and of itself. Zos has even specifically stated it. That does not mean all activities helping across alliances are permitted.

And as I said, if players see something suspicious they should take SS and record it then report it to Zos. Let Zos sort things out.

Stinkyremy · October 2020

idk wrote: »

It is not against the ToS in and of itself. Zos has even specifically stated it. That does not mean all activities helping across alliances are permitted.

And as I said, if players see something suspicious they should take SS and record it then report it to Zos. Let Zos sort things out.

Ok thanks for clearing that up for me.

ElenaVolkihar · October 2020

Are you talking about Green Team? I think it's terrible, because it's fare more and fare worse than "I help to fight my friend", because many AD and DC guilds reached an agreement in Twitter and Discord to push only EP. So all thse month(it's PC NA Grayhost campaign) EP had fight on 2 2 fronts and AD and DC had only 1 front. And there were many battles where huge AD and DC raids took together EP keeps but they kill only EP but didn't fight each other. So I think ZOS should change their TOS and give all these Green players permanent ban.

VaranisArano · October 2020

Can you be more specific?
Farming AP is against the TOS.
Trading objectives back and forth to farm AP is against the TOS.

Most Team Orange/Green/Purple stuff is just what happens in an AvAvA game. By design, everyone feels like it's A v A+A. Heck, that's why we have Emp bonuses - it's because the other two alliances are expected to work together for the dethrone.

Stinkyremy · October 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

Can you be more specific?
Farming AP is against the TOS.
Trading objectives back and forth to farm AP is against the TOS.

Most Team Orange/Green/Purple stuff is just what happens in an AvAvA game. By design, everyone feels like it's A v A+A. Heck, that's why we have Emp bonuses - it's because the other two alliances are expected to work together for the dethrone.

It was a vast amount of players from all 3 alliances getting together in the AvA doing something instead of doing the war. I don't know if they were standing round watching each other dance or duel but they weren't doing the faction war at all.

The issue here is that they are wasting server space for people who want to play the game, which as you know is limited.

VaranisArano · October 2020

Stinkyremy wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Can you be more specific?
Farming AP is against the TOS.
Trading objectives back and forth to farm AP is against the TOS.

Most Team Orange/Green/Purple stuff is just what happens in an AvAvA game. By design, everyone feels like it's A v A+A. Heck, that's why we have Emp bonuses - it's because the other two alliances are expected to work together for the dethrone.

It was a vast amount of players from all 3 alliances getting together in the AvA doing something instead of doing the war. I don't know if they were standing round watching each other dance or duel but they weren't doing the faction war at all.

The issue here is that they are wasting server space for people who want to play the game, which as you know is limited.

Thanks for being specific.

I expect that's almost certainly not going to be against the TOS. There's no requirement that you have to participate in the Alliance War when you queue up for Cyrodiil.

I could even queue up and AFK in the safety of home base, thus "wasting server space," but not be breaking the TOS.

Moreover, seeing as how you don't know what they were doing, I think it would be hard to argue that what they were doing was in fact in breach of the TOS. Even if they were standing around watching each other duel, that's not against the rules.

Now, if they were dueling on the grounds of an objective so that one group or the other was getting the D-ticks created by player deaths, then that would possibly fall under AP farming. But if it was in the middle of nowhere, well, players are allowed to go have a guild meet up or whatever in the middle of nowhere.

midgetfromtheshire · October 2020

ElenaVolkihar wrote: »

Are you talking about Green Team? I think it's terrible, because it's fare more and fare worse than "I help to fight my friend", because many AD and DC guilds reached an agreement in Twitter and Discord to push only EP. So all thse month(it's PC NA Grayhost campaign) EP had fight on 2 2 fronts and AD and DC had only 1 front. And there were many battles where huge AD and DC raids took together EP keeps but they kill only EP but didn't fight each other. So I think ZOS should change their TOS and give all these Green players permanent ban.

Why should they get a perma ban? EP and their glorious leader zerg all hours of the day and said leader bragged he could easily take on DC and AD. Suddenly in one campaign there's a faction swap for several guilds and players then suddenly there's a cry from the EP corner about how it's unfair and a post on the forum that "a break will be taken".

But beside that, there's nothing that even remotely says that you have to attack all members of any faction.

Akinos · October 2020

ElenaVolkihar wrote: »

Are you talking about Green Team? I think it's terrible, because it's fare more and fare worse than "I help to fight my friend", because many AD and DC guilds reached an agreement in Twitter and Discord to push only EP. So all thse month(it's PC NA Grayhost campaign) EP had fight on 2 2 fronts and AD and DC had only 1 front. And there were many battles where huge AD and DC raids took together EP keeps but they kill only EP but didn't fight each other. So I think ZOS should change their TOS and give all these Green players permanent ban.

I lol'd.

Ackwalan · October 2020

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

ElenaVolkihar wrote: »

Are you talking about Green Team? I think it's terrible, because it's fare more and fare worse than "I help to fight my friend", because many AD and DC guilds reached an agreement in Twitter and Discord to push only EP. So all thse month(it's PC NA Grayhost campaign) EP had fight on 2 2 fronts and AD and DC had only 1 front. And there were many battles where huge AD and DC raids took together EP keeps but they kill only EP but didn't fight each other. So I think ZOS should change their TOS and give all these Green players permanent ban.

Why should they get a perma ban? EP and their glorious leader zerg all hours of the day and said leader bragged he could easily take on DC and AD. Suddenly in one campaign there's a faction swap for several guilds and players then suddenly there's a cry from the EP corner about how it's unfair and a post on the forum that "a break will be taken".

But beside that, there's nothing that even remotely says that you have to attack all members of any faction.

If you are talking about who I think you are talking about. That same guy as 2 accounts, 1 for EP and 1 for AD.

ElenaVolkihar · October 2020

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

ElenaVolkihar wrote: »

Are you talking about Green Team? I think it's terrible, because it's fare more and fare worse than "I help to fight my friend", because many AD and DC guilds reached an agreement in Twitter and Discord to push only EP. So all thse month(it's PC NA Grayhost campaign) EP had fight on 2 2 fronts and AD and DC had only 1 front. And there were many battles where huge AD and DC raids took together EP keeps but they kill only EP but didn't fight each other. So I think ZOS should change their TOS and give all these Green players permanent ban.

Why should they get a perma ban? EP and their glorious leader zerg all hours of the day and said leader bragged he could easily take on DC and AD. Suddenly in one campaign there's a faction swap for several guilds and players then suddenly there's a cry from the EP corner about how it's unfair and a post on the forum that "a break will be taken".

But beside that, there's nothing that even remotely says that you have to attack all members of any faction.

I don't mind if some guilds went to another Alliance, it's their choice. But Green Team is really ***, because it's zero balance, when EP faces 2 enemy but AD and DC - only 1. And this I do not mention the lore side of the question, because DC and AD have completely opposite ideologies, and Green Team is as nonsense as the unification of the USSR and the United States during the Cold War.

Cirantille · October 2020

Or maybe stop taking a fictional alliance this serious, which exists in a fictional world in a video game

You'll start enjoying "player" versus "player" more

midgetfromtheshire · October 2020

ElenaVolkihar wrote: »

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

ElenaVolkihar wrote: »

Are you talking about Green Team? I think it's terrible, because it's fare more and fare worse than "I help to fight my friend", because many AD and DC guilds reached an agreement in Twitter and Discord to push only EP. So all thse month(it's PC NA Grayhost campaign) EP had fight on 2 2 fronts and AD and DC had only 1 front. And there were many battles where huge AD and DC raids took together EP keeps but they kill only EP but didn't fight each other. So I think ZOS should change their TOS and give all these Green players permanent ban.

Why should they get a perma ban? EP and their glorious leader zerg all hours of the day and said leader bragged he could easily take on DC and AD. Suddenly in one campaign there's a faction swap for several guilds and players then suddenly there's a cry from the EP corner about how it's unfair and a post on the forum that "a break will be taken".

But beside that, there's nothing that even remotely says that you have to attack all members of any faction.

I don't mind if some guilds went to another Alliance, it's their choice. But Green Team is really ***, because it's zero balance, when EP faces 2 enemy but AD and DC - only 1. And this I do not mention the lore side of the question, because DC and AD have completely opposite ideologies, and Green Team is as nonsense as the unification of the USSR and the United States during the Cold War.

I mean if you want to bring some real world aspect into this, let's use your example. The USSR and US were allies during WW2 to take down *** Germany, then only became opposites after a vacuum had been left. Alliances can shift all the time, just go look at the history of Europe over centuries.

I mean you want to talk about zero balance now, but it's a non-issue when it's EP poplocked against 1 bar DC/AD for months on end.

WaywardArgonian · October 2020

From what I've read on this topic and ZOS's previous actions, they usually draw a line when something goes 'against the spirit of Cyrodiil/PVP'. Of course this is rather vague, which gives them some leeway to judge things on a case-by-case basis, but a good example of them taking action against cross-alliance cooperation was when some players from different alliances were flipping the same keep/outpost in order to farm AP.

On the other hand, there's stuff like scroll trolling, which is allowed because using a scroll to bait another alliance into a fight might still serve a tactical purpose.

Obviously I can't speak to ZOS's exact policy on this, but judging from what we've seen in the past, whether or not something is allowed seems to hinge on whether it could possibly serve a tactical purpose in some way.

VaranisArano · October 2020

ElenaVolkihar wrote: »

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

ElenaVolkihar wrote: »

Are you talking about Green Team? I think it's terrible, because it's fare more and fare worse than "I help to fight my friend", because many AD and DC guilds reached an agreement in Twitter and Discord to push only EP. So all thse month(it's PC NA Grayhost campaign) EP had fight on 2 2 fronts and AD and DC had only 1 front. And there were many battles where huge AD and DC raids took together EP keeps but they kill only EP but didn't fight each other. So I think ZOS should change their TOS and give all these Green players permanent ban.

Why should they get a perma ban? EP and their glorious leader zerg all hours of the day and said leader bragged he could easily take on DC and AD. Suddenly in one campaign there's a faction swap for several guilds and players then suddenly there's a cry from the EP corner about how it's unfair and a post on the forum that "a break will be taken".

But beside that, there's nothing that even remotely says that you have to attack all members of any faction.

I don't mind if some guilds went to another Alliance, it's their choice. But Green Team is really ***, because it's zero balance, when EP faces 2 enemy but AD and DC - only 1. And this I do not mention the lore side of the question, because DC and AD have completely opposite ideologies, and Green Team is as nonsense as the unification of the USSR and the United States during the Cold War.

On the contrary, this is exactly how Cyrodiil is designed. Its an AvAvA game, but that doesn't mean that its expected that every alliance will fight both enemies equally.

Look at emperorships: its clearly intended that the two non-emp alliances team up to dethrone the emp alliance.
Look at the scoring system: its clearly intended that the two losing alliances team up to fight the alliance in first place (though practically its just as common that 1st and 3rd team up against 2nd, or its 1st & 2nd vs 3rd)

PVP isn't really about "fair." Its about generating fights. In that sense, as an EP player, I always figured that "Team Green" meant more good fights for me in a target-rich environment.

ElenaVolkihar · October 2020

Cirantille wrote: »

Or maybe stop taking a fictional alliance this serious, which exists in a fictional world in a video game

You'll start enjoying "player" versus "player" more

But TES games are famous for their well written lore, so

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

ElenaVolkihar wrote: »

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

ElenaVolkihar wrote: »

Are you talking about Green Team? I think it's terrible, because it's fare more and fare worse than "I help to fight my friend", because many AD and DC guilds reached an agreement in Twitter and Discord to push only EP. So all thse month(it's PC NA Grayhost campaign) EP had fight on 2 2 fronts and AD and DC had only 1 front. And there were many battles where huge AD and DC raids took together EP keeps but they kill only EP but didn't fight each other. So I think ZOS should change their TOS and give all these Green players permanent ban.

Why should they get a perma ban? EP and their glorious leader zerg all hours of the day and said leader bragged he could easily take on DC and AD. Suddenly in one campaign there's a faction swap for several guilds and players then suddenly there's a cry from the EP corner about how it's unfair and a post on the forum that "a break will be taken".

But beside that, there's nothing that even remotely says that you have to attack all members of any faction.

I don't mind if some guilds went to another Alliance, it's their choice. But Green Team is really ***, because it's zero balance, when EP faces 2 enemy but AD and DC - only 1. And this I do not mention the lore side of the question, because DC and AD have completely opposite ideologies, and Green Team is as nonsense as the unification of the USSR and the United States during the Cold War.

I mean if you want to bring some real world aspect into this, let's use your example. The USSR and US were allies during WW2 to take down *** Germany, then only became opposites after a vacuum had been left. Alliances can shift all the time, just go look at the history of Europe over centuries.

I mean you want to talk about zero balance now, but it's a non-issue when it's EP poplocked against 1 bar DC/AD for months on end.

EP was pop locked vs 1 bar AD&DC b/c AD and DC guilds went to IC during event, but EP guild prefered Cirodiil. Now all alliance numbers are +- equal, but AD and DC continue Green team EP even if it's at 3rd place and have the same numbers as AD and DC.

adirondack · October 2020

Every time is read “Team Green” I laugh. No such alliance exists. Look at how frequently Brindle Ash and Roe are contested. Hell even some scraggly AD flip Rayles a couple times a night.

But the thread is humorous so please keep going.

Beaverton · October 2020

adirondack wrote: »

Every time is read “Team Green” I laugh. No such alliance exists. Look at how frequently Brindle Ash and Roe are contested. Hell even some scraggly AD flip Rayles a couple times a night.

But the thread is humorous so please keep going.

Who are you calling scraggly, you mouth breather?! ;p

Gaggin · October 2020

Zos is big on immersion, and in warfare there are spies, collusion, treasonous acts, double-cross, sabotage, ceasefires etc. You're lying to yourself if you think these things are against tos.

Kartalin · October 2020

Gaggin wrote: »

Zos is big on immersion, and in warfare there are spies, collusion, treasonous acts, double-cross, sabotage, ceasefires etc. You're lying to yourself if you think these things are against tos.

Yes but I want to be able to execute the spies and rid my faction of that player permanently. At least that's what I thought back when I cared about that stuff....5 or 6 years ago?