need to change player behavior in cyro to help with performance.

Madhatten512 · October 2020

I want to start this off by saying I'm all for the tests ZOS have been doing to try and help with performance. Its at least something more than another "we are working on it" or "thanks for your patience" ... I think the group size test and heals and buffs only stacking inside the group is a great start, but that alone will not fix the performance of this game. You have to change player behavior inside Cyordiil. Small group size does nothing if 30 to 40 of those smaller groups are all stacked on top of each other.. You have to get people to spread out.. Right now it makes way more sense to stack every person on your faction at one of the emp keeps and steam roll around the inner circle. Imo ZOS needs to do something drastic to change behavior.. Stack massive debuffs on players if they step onto the grounds of a keep or resource that has hit the limit, and have faction wide announcement{like the ones when someone picks up a scroll} naming 3 keeps that all have to be taken at the same time. Throw in huge faction wide rewards if the keeps are taken successfully. I don't really care what the system is, and it can constantly change, but there needs to be systems in place to get people to spread tf out. Until you change player behavior i dont think AOE cooldown, or lower group size, are going to change a thing. If people aren't spamming AOEs they are spamming something else. I do want to ask everyone else have you guys felt much of a performance difference during these tests? I haven't been playing as much as i used to because of the performance, and because the meta is trash, but that's a topic for a different time. From the small bit i have played during testing i haven't seen any improvement what-so-ever though.

Taleof2Cities · October 2020

That system to get people to spread out already exists, @Madhatten512.

It's called the Vicious Death 5-piece.

Zoaiy · October 2020

I agree, buff the keep buffs from brindle, dragonclaw and such, add more keeps there that increase stats, mabye make shrines that give a lot of score to the holding allience.
Right now see how little players use other bridges then sej bridge, and instead create incentive to be around that area to so players are less inclined to force emp keeps.

Heck the best fights I have are in unusual spots

Madhatten512 · October 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

That system to get people to spread out already exists, @Madhatten512.

It's called the Vicious Death 5-piece.

Its not working and i am talking more about the spreading of a faction than individual players which is what VD can do at time.. Right now (and for a long while) organized groups use pugs as meat shields. So they are going to follow the herd, and you end up with organized ball groups that already stress the server to its limits stacked on top of the pugs of an entire faction.. What do the other factions do to compete? The same exact thing. Throw more and more and more bodies at a location. So you get 95% of cyro all in one place on the map. Performance will never change until this behavior is broken, and they need to take extreme measures to break it.. IMO its more important than AOE cooldowns or whatever other BS they come up with.. Change player behavior first see how that effects performance and go from there. I think 12 man groups is a good idea, and heals and buffs only stacking inside the group should've been implemented long ago, but if you don't do something to get factions to focus on different area of the map simultaneously it isn't going to fix anything..

These changes would also force the crowns of a faction to communicate and work together like they never have before adding another layer of strategy to ESO pvp. Instead of mindless following behind the herd of Pugs groups would be forced to communicate and hit targets at certain times or set traps for the opposition. Cyordiil hasn't changed in a very very long time. I'm sure im not the only one that has grown tired of the same ole same. They are never going to invest money into pvp that ship has sailed, but changes like this would be cheap to implement would have to help performance, and would maybe spark some interest back into to PvP.

Mr_Nobody · October 2020

No ~

Need to nerf Purge ~
Would mean no more ball grps and stacked zergs.

Madhatten512 · October 2020

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

No ~

Need to nerf Purge ~
Would mean no more ball grps and stacked zergs.

That would change nothing it wouldn't stop ball groups in anyway and it would do more to push people together than spread them out.

VaranisArano · October 2020

Cyrodiil, for all that the devs have done to add objectives to get groups to spread out, is designed to funnel most players on the map to whatever is the most important objective at the time.

Be it a scroll push, the next emp keep in line, defending a tri-keep...whatever it is, it's not hard to see what's the most important fight going on (or the fight with the potential for the most AP) and that draws players in like moths to a open flame.

Even Volundrung, which initially did cause players to spread out and hit back keeps to draw out the groups using it, has pretty much become another swarm tactic. It shows up, it draws faction players to attack/defend in a giant ball where ever it goes.

"Spread out!"

Why? Nothing about Cyrodiil encourages a faction to weaken themselves, save the need to operate on two fronts. PUGs don't often strike out on their own whether due to lack of confidence or capability.

But when organized groups do strike away from the obvious target?

We complain "Quit PvDooring!"

Can't have it both ways.

VaranisArano · October 2020

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

No ~

Need to nerf Purge ~
Would mean no more ball grps and stacked zergs.

Nerfed Purge is the equivalent to stronger siege weapons.

Last time ZOS seriously buffed siege for any length of time, sieges turned into a slugging match that drew in masses of players because it was a slaughterfest to push in or out. Not great for performance either.

Or groups went for lightning quick PvDoor attacks because it was the only way to avoid a lengthy slugging match.

And it really has the opposite effect you hope for. When the siege fire is deadly enough, the only players who can survive to do anything are the groups with their healers.

Its not that Purge can't be nerfed. It might need to be nerfed. But the impact isn't quite going to be what you expect.

But I dunno, maybe you'd like to incentivize PvDoor.

UntouchableHunter · October 2020

Rewards is the key.

Make solo play get more alliance points é maybe more 10% damage and mitigation

Small groups less alliance points and 5% damage and mitigation

Big groups no alliance point no weapon and mitigation bonus.

Greasytengu · October 2020

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

No ~

Need to nerf Purge ~
Would mean no more ball grps and stacked zergs.

Instead of just nerfing a core ability, why not reduce the need for it?

The sheer amount of negative effects that get applied to you in the course of even a mid sized fight (say 20 v 20) is astoundingly large, organized groups have to have a dedicated purge spammer to just reduce the incoming damage and snares.

My proposal would be to cap the amount of dots and debuffs or just not allow dots to stack, as well as increasing the duration of break free's snare immunity.

These changes could help close the gap between organized groups and pugs without punishing teamwork, reduce the effectiveness of just stacking more players into an area, and hopefully reduce the server load.

x48rph · October 2020

I'd be all for other changes as oppose to ruining the uniqueness of combat in eso with cooldowns and limits. Also healing in groups only is dumb. We're suppose to be fighting as an alliance but if that goes through all I can do is watch my fellow alliance members die next to me without being able to heal them just because we happened to be in different groups. I'd grudgingly accept not being able to buff those in a different group but I shouldn't have to stand by while my alliance mates perish next to me and not be able to do anything to save them. Might as well just shrink it down to a 12v12v12 battleground then and be done.

Wolfpaw · October 2020

Escort deliveries from farm, mine, & lumber to keeps would be a fun addition.

Gardarik · October 2020

ZOS that earns millions off their lootboxes should just deal with their equipment + deal with Akamai bottleneck that significantly decreases the ping. It is not the behaviour of the players that is at fault, players are simply trying to enjoy the "large scale PvP battles" as it was advertised. The failure of the company selling the product to deliver those promises, hwoever, is the problem.