Thews of the Harbinger
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Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I dont know, I dont think it is worse than my 4k heavy attack ticks in no-CP (I receive so much hate whispers
). But those are builds which are design around specific goal and they are not for everyone. Because I can!0 -
TheValkyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »I could see this build working for chaos ball and zone control modes in BGs. But that's purely taking advantage of the objective. As far as true pvp power goes, they can't kill you unless you attack them, and they don't offer much utility to their team.
Maybe if someone paired it with Battalion Defender, made some kind of Thews-stam healer-tank, that might be a problem.
Blocked AOE attacks (jabs and the like included) also have damage returned. I've been top in almost every BG wearing this set whether it's a deathmatch or objective-based format.
Stonekeeper + Crimson + Harbinger = tons of healing + TONS of damage return + almost infinite sustain.Edited by TheValkyn on 10 September 2020 18:490 -
TheValkyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭The counter play of this literally "stop hitting yourself stop hitting yourself"
If there is a guy with 35-50k holding block in the middle of a chaotic pvp fight and if you focus on him you will get killed, even if he isn't using harbinger.
Ever thought how people complete dungeons in this game? There is this tank dude with high hp and defenses whose job is literally getting hit by the bad guys while his team murders said bad guys.
If you are focusing a blocking player wit 35k+ hp your fate will be the same as those adds in dungeons so don't complain about it.
Harbinger builds literally have no damage unless you hit them, just go around them kill their squishy friends first then start focusing the turtle roleplayer with heavy attacks to drain their stamina, stuns-fears etc to drop their block then burst them when they are not blocking.
Or the easy way, just siege the guy who plays goliath harbinger with 90k hp. If he acts like a keep wall treat him as such. Play dirty it's Cyrodiil
If you're a templar using jabs (or another class with similar abilities) and the tank places himself in front of his ally you will receive each tick of jabs as 1.5k damage or more.
The Harbinger is not ignored. The Harbinger will seek you out and make you wish you could have killed it.2 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Idk, I played one BG where I started my combo on a guy (with jabs) a basically killed myself in 2 seconds. Then I saw Thews on the death recap, put that player on ignore, and didn't have any issues with him again that match, or any other afterwards that I saw him in.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »Idk, I played one BG where I started my combo on a guy (with jabs) a basically killed myself in 2 seconds. Then I saw Thews on the death recap, put that player on ignore, and didn't have any issues with him again that match, or any other afterwards that I saw him in.
This is why I never could stick with thews. Once a player figures you it, you won't 1v1 them.
But to @TheValkyn point, you can maneuver into people's attacks - which you end up spending all your time doing
Thing is, non thew health tanks drain thews tanks of stam right quick and in a group setting can make a big difference.0 -
TheValkyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »Idk, I played one BG where I started my combo on a guy (with jabs) a basically killed myself in 2 seconds. Then I saw Thews on the death recap, put that player on ignore, and didn't have any issues with him again that match, or any other afterwards that I saw him in.
If you're ignoring people that kill you then you're not going to have anyone to play with. That's kind of an extreme jump. 0 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »Idk, I played one BG where I started my combo on a guy (with jabs) a basically killed myself in 2 seconds. Then I saw Thews on the death recap, put that player on ignore, and didn't have any issues with him again that match, or any other afterwards that I saw him in.
If you're ignoring people that kill you then you're not going to have anyone to play with. That's kind of an extreme jump.
I'm mean ignore them in combat, not socially.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”0 -
JinxxND✭✭✭✭
That post is hilarious to me as the person would just not stop attacking the harbinger build, while I would never make a build like that myself to just troll it does seem really funny and tempting to that people just refuse to learn simple mechanics and literally kill themselves to this simple mechanics that is highly avoidable by simply not attacking a person with the set, if you were a little more veteran you would see tell signs of the set by a high hp user with sword and board for the block passives and probably already take the hint to not attack a tank, then as you start attacking you prolly would notice your hp dropping as the character is simple holding block possibly rebuffing or casting some minor dmg skill, there are just too many signs to avoid hitting this kinda build the fact that people are killing themselves by hitting a build like that much without noticing what is going on just means they are really don't pay attention to anythingPC NA -
'Jinxx - Nightblade
'Jinxx X Necromancer1 -
UrbanMonk✭✭✭✭✭
✭universal_wrath wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »precambria wrote: »
i'm not sure if you noticed but people don't run around with a sign over their head that says exactly what sets they're running
Good point. It's not like people know ahead of time "Oh, I better ignore this guy because of the sets he's wearing".
Not to mention Dragon Knights are hard to ignore anyway since they have such effective CC.
The dude who just stands there holding block is an easy ignore.
If that was the case, people would not complain about. Those people just hold block, they use every CC possible with least effort. Talons, fossilze..etc. you simply can't ignore them.CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »EtTuBrutus wrote: »
yeah it's pretty broken
20 ticks of average 1.5k damage. Over 10 seconds you got hit by a 3k dot. Doesn't seem that op to me, there are other proc sets that hit harder, also you can stop the "dot" damage any time. And any class has access to unlockable CCs, these builds are just target dummies
3k dot doesn't seem OP to you? Not a single set comes close to that..
well yes 30k pvp damage from a single source is very much, but i mean not op not because the numbers, but because you are in control of it by stopping attacking, slowing it down by not hitting blockable attacks, or CCing the user
lets see - CC, well Thew wills till attack you if the user is CC'd.
Not all classes have strong DoTs or AoE's in a PvP build
So stamDk's... are good at countering this.
Unless StamDK uses corrosive with all dots, then somehow these tanks do go down. Dizzy you cant use.. leap you cant...
Fun fact, corrosive does not work on dots anymore. There is no counter to these type of builds as far as I know.
what I meant was dots keep doing what they do while not reflecting damage to you. And the associated direct attacks with these dots, go through ignoring the resistance as well as corrosive damage itself.Urban.Monk
-Monk I- Magden- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
-Tsürügi- MagBlade- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
-Bantam Bomber- MagPlar- AVA28
-Hot Nöödle- MagDK - AVA37
-Pablo Necrobar- StamCro- AVA24
youtube.com/c/UrbanMonkGaming
Easiest mDK for vMA and vVH- https://youtu.be/dUxQO1FO1XQ
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Balance for the Sake of Balance is no Balance at all.0 -
UrbanMonk✭✭✭✭✭
✭The last match where I saw one of the Harbinger hold block tanks, took me 2 sec to realise after the match started what was going on. Then I wrote to my team to NOT ATTACK that tank. It was a chaos ball match, me on my magden with 3 nightblades with less that 300 CP. Despite all odds we won...
If these tanks get ignored which usually happens, most of the time they are useless. Except in certain objective modes and with a decent team, it does work from time to time.Urban.Monk
-Monk I- Magden- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
-Tsürügi- MagBlade- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
-Bantam Bomber- MagPlar- AVA28
-Hot Nöödle- MagDK - AVA37
-Pablo Necrobar- StamCro- AVA24
youtube.com/c/UrbanMonkGaming
Easiest mDK for vMA and vVH- https://youtu.be/dUxQO1FO1XQ
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Balance for the Sake of Balance is no Balance at all.0 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭Friend of mine is using it with a DK and has tweaked it. Tried to duel him with a magdk which I'm new at. He had resource drain poisons and siphon CP si I was unable to keep pressure on and it was a little weakness of my new build there. He 7see pots and ultimate and a health heal but I was not really able to get him close.
Tried with my stamplar and I could pressure but bot really get him unless he ean out of pots.
Wasnt really a threat to me either but I know when we were running IC, and in a group fight, I could just los around him and people would kill themselves.0 -
KurtAngle2✭✭✭✭People assuming that Thews users are gonna block with stamina are in for a bigger problem when they realize you can go Bloodlord Embrace + Frost Staff and have INFINITE block0
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KurtAngle2 wrote: »People assuming that Thews users are gonna block with stamina are in for a bigger problem when they realize you can go Bloodlord Embrace + Frost Staff and have INFINITE block
Only if you are attacked with 1 attack per sec edit and by the person you bashed.Edited by Waffennacht on 11 September 2020 13:330 -
JinxxND✭✭✭✭KurtAngle2 wrote: »People assuming that Thews users are gonna block with stamina are in for a bigger problem when they realize you can go Bloodlord Embrace + Frost Staff and have INFINITE block
You only get sustain from one target blocking with bloodlord that puts a visible tell so not reallyPC NA -
'Jinxx - Nightblade
'Jinxx X Necromancer0 -
TheValkyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭KurtAngle2 wrote: »People assuming that Thews users are gonna block with stamina are in for a bigger problem when they realize you can go Bloodlord Embrace + Frost Staff and have INFINITE block
You only get sustain from one target blocking with bloodlord that puts a visible tell so not really
Stonekeeper, pots and swap is enough for infinite sustain blocking.0 -
TheValkyn✭✭✭✭✭
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That post is hilarious to me as the person would just not stop attacking the harbinger build, while I would never make a build like that myself to just troll it does seem really funny and tempting to that people just refuse to learn simple mechanics and literally kill themselves to this simple mechanics that is highly avoidable by simply not attacking a person with the set, if you were a little more veteran you would see tell signs of the set by a high hp user with sword and board for the block passives and probably already take the hint to not attack a tank, then as you start attacking you prolly would notice your hp dropping as the character is simple holding block possibly rebuffing or casting some minor dmg skill, there are just too many signs to avoid hitting this kinda build the fact that people are killing themselves by hitting a build like that much without noticing what is going on just means they are really don't pay attention to anything
@JinxxND
I mean... Here’s 1m damage in a death match BG from just blocking with thews. The trick is getting in between teammates and attackers to soak up or take part of the damage.
I posted this before but for some reason people still think this is ignorable. Op is absolutely right. Thews is OP and you can’t be ignored if you’re running the right debuffs, buffs and other support abilities.
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TheValkyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭techyeshic wrote: »Friend of mine is using it with a DK and has tweaked it. Tried to duel him with a magdk which I'm new at. He had resource drain poisons and siphon CP si I was unable to keep pressure on and it was a little weakness of my new build there. He 7see pots and ultimate and a health heal but I was not really able to get him close.
Tried with my stamplar and I could pressure but bot really get him unless he ean out of pots.
Wasnt really a threat to me either but I know when we were running IC, and in a group fight, I could just los around him and people would kill themselves.
Why would he run resource drain poisons? Ya boy is playin’ wrong! You want them to keep light attack weaving abilities because that’s 3k damage or more every time. If he wants to run poisons then there are better options.0 -
JinxxND✭✭✭✭The dmg is completely based off attacking someone, you don't attack the person they don't do dmg simple as that. Now if you for some reason just can't help but attack the person you had better be prepared to take a lot of damage I could see that as an annoying build in a flag game but those game modes even with an entire team in non CP you should be able to take down a harbinger as long as people understand how to properly debuff then burst them after prioritizing the squishy people on the same team, really a l2p issuePC NA -
'Jinxx - Nightblade
'Jinxx X Necromancer0 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That post is hilarious to me as the person would just not stop attacking the harbinger build, while I would never make a build like that myself to just troll it does seem really funny and tempting to that people just refuse to learn simple mechanics and literally kill themselves to this simple mechanics that is highly avoidable by simply not attacking a person with the set, if you were a little more veteran you would see tell signs of the set by a high hp user with sword and board for the block passives and probably already take the hint to not attack a tank, then as you start attacking you prolly would notice your hp dropping as the character is simple holding block possibly rebuffing or casting some minor dmg skill, there are just too many signs to avoid hitting this kinda build the fact that people are killing themselves by hitting a build like that much without noticing what is going on just means they are really don't pay attention to anything
@JinxxND
I mean... Here’s 1m damage in a death match BG from just blocking with thews. The trick is getting in between teammates and attackers to soak up or take part of the damage.
I posted this before but for some reason people still think this is ignorable. Op is absolutely right. Thews is OP and you can’t be ignored if you’re running the right debuffs, buffs and other support abilities.
6 and 2 in a losing effort isn't OP, with or without 1 mil damage.
And before you say "but look, 20 assists," kills stolen by other teams still award you assists. You likely softened up many players for the other teams to kill.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”2 -
TheValkyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »
That post is hilarious to me as the person would just not stop attacking the harbinger build, while I would never make a build like that myself to just troll it does seem really funny and tempting to that people just refuse to learn simple mechanics and literally kill themselves to this simple mechanics that is highly avoidable by simply not attacking a person with the set, if you were a little more veteran you would see tell signs of the set by a high hp user with sword and board for the block passives and probably already take the hint to not attack a tank, then as you start attacking you prolly would notice your hp dropping as the character is simple holding block possibly rebuffing or casting some minor dmg skill, there are just too many signs to avoid hitting this kinda build the fact that people are killing themselves by hitting a build like that much without noticing what is going on just means they are really don't pay attention to anything
@JinxxND
I mean... Here’s 1m damage in a death match BG from just blocking with thews. The trick is getting in between teammates and attackers to soak up or take part of the damage.
I posted this before but for some reason people still think this is ignorable. Op is absolutely right. Thews is OP and you can’t be ignored if you’re running the right debuffs, buffs and other support abilities.
6 and 2 in a losing effort isn't OP, with or without 1 mil damage.
And before you say "but look, 20 assists," kills stolen by other teams still award you assists. You likely softened up many players for the other teams to kill.
@MurderMostFoul
You should take another look at the scoreboard.
Thews provided:- The highest medal score 4422. That's around 1.4k more medal pts than the pack individually.
- The highest damage output of anyone in the match. Let's repeat. A defensive tank did more damage than anyone in the match. Why on earth is a defensive, support build outperforming DPS?
- 50% of my team was underperforming while the winning team was evenly balanced just a touch below or above 3000 MP.
It's a team game and since ZOS has forced everyone to be placed on random teams where players might be in their first battleground. One player can't win a match by themselves (unless you're using this build in ctf, chaosball or koth) and even if the opponents were "softened" up the same opportunity was presented for the bottom two players sitting at the bottom of the scoreboard to snag those kills as well.
This is 1m damage from blocking, being defensive only, and buffing/debuffing. Take a moment and think about that.Edited by TheValkyn on 12 September 2020 18:351 -
ne.ga.kurai_ESO✭✭✭21 second stun immunity timer sounds amazing tbh, the game would be much more enjoyable if that was the case.
If they wanted a healthy game they would do (stun duration * 10) for immunity like DAoC did. And make it actually work so you’re not getting CC’d several times in the same GCD.
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MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭- The highest medal score 4422. That's around 1.4k more medal pts than the pack individually.
- The highest damage output of anyone in the match. Let's repeat. A defensive tank did more damage than anyone in the match. Why on earth is a defensive, support build outperforming DPS?
- 50% of my team was underperforming while the winning team was evenly balanced just a touch below or above 3000 MP.
-Your high medal score is from the 20 assists which, again, likely helped your opponents via stolen kills.
-Highest overall damage isn't very important in DM. Damage output matters when it is controlled (unlike Thews) and gets you or teammates kills. That didn't happen here. In fact, high overall damage is easier on tanky builds with high survivability and passive damage. Your build is a good "high overall damage build," but that's not what it takes to win DM, and isn't OP.
-The team with the most players able to secure kills won. Purple had 2, your team and orange had one each. That is why you didn't win. Medal score was not a determining factor.
“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”2 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
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That post is hilarious to me as the person would just not stop attacking the harbinger build, while I would never make a build like that myself to just troll it does seem really funny and tempting to that people just refuse to learn simple mechanics and literally kill themselves to this simple mechanics that is highly avoidable by simply not attacking a person with the set, if you were a little more veteran you would see tell signs of the set by a high hp user with sword and board for the block passives and probably already take the hint to not attack a tank, then as you start attacking you prolly would notice your hp dropping as the character is simple holding block possibly rebuffing or casting some minor dmg skill, there are just too many signs to avoid hitting this kinda build the fact that people are killing themselves by hitting a build like that much without noticing what is going on just means they are really don't pay attention to anything
[snip] it's a 10 second log of me attacking someone who was showed up to a resource that i was trying to take, no one knows exactly what sets someone is wearing and high hp absolutely does not mean someone can't be killed or shouldn't be attacked, especially when they're your only target. [snip]
[Edited to remove Rude Comments]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on 15 September 2020 14:07Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What is the big deal...with 50K health, it does what ~2K damage per blocked direct damage attack?EtTuBrutus wrote: »
yeah it's pretty broken
20 ticks of average 1.5k damage. Over 10 seconds you got hit by a 3k dot. Doesn't seem that op to me, there are other proc sets that hit harder, also you can stop the "dot" damage any time. And any class has access to unlockable CCs, these builds are just target dummies
3k dot doesn't seem OP to you? Not a single set comes close to that..
Oblivions Foe.0 -
dinokstrunz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Such a set shouldn't exist in my opinion, it's completely dumb and promotes such a lazy way to play PvP. Nowadays you'll find one to two of these Thews roadblocks accompanying almost every zerg group. It's added annoyance for smaller groups to deal with or ignore. Why this set and a whole host of proc sets was buffed in Stonethorns we'll never know.
These poorly designed sets like this and other proc sets like Venomous Smite and Syvarra all need balancing fast because it's making this games PvP feel insufferable and far less enjoyable. One balance change they could add to Thews is maybe adding a CD of the proc 2-3 seconds per target.
I just hope ZoS actually pays attention to the feedback this time on future PTS because nobody is enjoying Stonethorn PvP these days.0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dinokstrunz wrote: »I just hope ZoS actually pays attention to the feedback this time on future PTS because nobody is enjoying Stonethorn PvP these days.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think you have it backwards. ZOS is listening. The majority of players want easy mode, zergs and ball groups. They took a look at the Venomous Smite feedback and thought we need even more sets like that.
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ecru✭✭✭✭✭
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That post is hilarious to me as the person would just not stop attacking the harbinger build, while I would never make a build like that myself to just troll it does seem really funny and tempting to that people just refuse to learn simple mechanics and literally kill themselves to this simple mechanics that is highly avoidable by simply not attacking a person with the set, if you were a little more veteran you would see tell signs of the set by a high hp user with sword and board for the block passives and probably already take the hint to not attack a tank, then as you start attacking you prolly would notice your hp dropping as the character is simple holding block possibly rebuffing or casting some minor dmg skill, there are just too many signs to avoid hitting this kinda build the fact that people are killing themselves by hitting a build like that much without noticing what is going on just means they are really don't pay attention to anything
[snip] it's a 10 second log of me attacking someone who was showed up to a resource that i was trying to take, no one knows exactly what sets someone is wearing and high hp absolutely does not mean someone can't be killed or shouldn't be attacked, especially when they're your only target. [snip]
[Quoted post was removed]
i was paying attention to my health just fine, i'm not entirely sure what your point here is tbh. are you assuming i died? i pulled up cmx and took that screenshot on top of the resource with him standing there still holding block.What is the big deal...with 50K health, it does what ~2K damage per blocked direct damage attack?EtTuBrutus wrote: »
yeah it's pretty broken
20 ticks of average 1.5k damage. Over 10 seconds you got hit by a 3k dot. Doesn't seem that op to me, there are other proc sets that hit harder, also you can stop the "dot" damage any time. And any class has access to unlockable CCs, these builds are just target dummies
3k dot doesn't seem OP to you? Not a single set comes close to that..
Oblivions Foe.
i don't think this is a good comparison since it's only 3k dps for the ult, soul trap only ticks every 2 seconds so oblivion's foe would add (i'm assuming) less than 1500 dps to soul trap. if it ticked every second oblivion's foe would turn soul trap into an incredible dot, unfortunately that isn't the case.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on 15 September 2020 14:09Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
Rhaegar75✭✭✭✭✭It's not a set i'd use simply because it requires only minimal skills in actually playing the game....i'm not an amazing PvPer but i'm not that lame!
Of course successful theory crafting took place but using this build, in my opinion, requires 2 things: 1. positioning yourself in areas where you could receive damage and 2. keep blocking.
I fought someone with a similar build last night simply by ignoring him/her.....total irrelevance.
However it's much harder to ignore a player when he/she sits amongst other ones in some BGs0
