Imperials during the Three Banners War: Where might they go?

CMDR_Un1k0rn · July 2020

Okay. It's a bit of an odd question with many possible answers but I want to hear the thoughts of different people.

With Cyrodiil in an absolute mess and the Imperial people finding themselves rather scattered, which of the three alliances do you think would be most welcoming to Imperial citizens?

Now personally I do not think it is the Pact. That Alliance, much as I love it, seems to be more interested in independence than unity.

But between the Dominion or Covenant? I am not so clear. On the one hand there are a lot of Imperial settlements in AD lands. And I really do get the impression that they are tolerated as a respectable people by the elves.

I'm the other hand there is the Covenant. If I'm not mistaken, the DC powers seek to rebuild the Empire as it was before the war? If so this does say to me that as conservatives, they too would be welcoming to Imperial people.

Anyway, I'm asking because I want to make an Imperial character and would like his Alliance to fit into his story with good explanations.

I can of course discuss further and any questions to help me help you give an opinion are welcomed.

RemanCyrodiil_I · July 2020

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CMDR_Un1k0rn · July 2020

RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »

I think it really does rather have to be the Daggerfall Covenant. You just have to read the motif pages for the Daggerfall Covenant motif to see how much they revere the Reman Empire to such an extent that they're actively trying to emulate them right down to their armour style.

As you mentioned, the Pact would dismantle the Empire, and the Dominion considers man to be too immature to govern Tamriel (though you can find an Imperial Legion defector in the Dominion Capital, Grahtwood).

The lore book Triumphs of a Monarch, Ch. 10, shows that King Emeric had already signed a treaty with the Ruby Throne to actively help Varen Aquilarios rebuild the Reman Empire before Varen's disappearance. Emeric now wants to pick up where Varen left off.

All of my characters are Imperial and all have been Covenant since beta!

Now that book I did not know about. But just looked it up on UESP for the same of confirming.

I think you're onto something. I did indeed already know about the references in the Daggerfall Style book.

I'm inclined to agree. An Imperial wishing for things to go back to as they were would simply have no choice but to turn to the Covenant.

Lord_Draevan · July 2020

While you're on UESP, also read "True Heirs of the Empire". It talks about how the Reman Empire is alive and well in the Covenant, and how the Tharn's Empire is a "twisted sham" of what used to be.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · July 2020

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

While you're on UESP, also read "True Heirs of the Empire". It talks about how the Reman Empire is alive and well in the Covenant, and how the Tharn's Empire is a "twisted sham" of what used to be.

Thank you, I will absolutely check this out!

Now all I think is surely this character will have to be a Templar, due to the class's explicit links to the god in his representation under the Cyrodiilic Pantheon?

RemanCyrodiil_I · July 2020

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CMDR_Un1k0rn · July 2020

RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »

'Guide To the Daggerfall Covenant' also explicitly states that

At its best, it is a noble alliance of honorable and chivalrous peoples, representing all the best aspects of the First and Second Empires. And from this solid foundation, perhaps a third, even mightier Empire shall arise, providing all the peoples of Tamriel the benefits of mutual respect, vigorous trade, and reverence for the Divines.

So it seems it also wants to restore the best aspects of the Alessian Empire (of which High Rock was one of the most loyal regions).

I think you could make a case for the Dominion with what we saw in the Year of the Dragon, during which both the Thirteenth Legion and the Cygnus Irregulars swore allegiance to the Queen of Anequina. However both seemed more like marriages-of-convenience due to both being stranded deep within Dominion territory with no supplies at a time when Cyrodiil (and Elsweyr) were burning. I think individual Imperials would definitely join the Covenant if they had a choice.

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Now all I think is surely this character will have to be a Templar, due to the class's explicit links to the god in his representation under the Cyrodiilic Pantheon?

My main Imperial is also a Templar due to its links to the Divines (lots of mentions of 'divine/holy light' and even explicit mentions of the Aedra seen with Cleansing Ritual), but Dragonknight also seems very Imperial/Akatosh-influenced.

You're right on the Dragonknight as well I think. Especially after a certain worldboss in Elsweyr... It's easy to link the martial style to the Akaviri invasion of the Pact lands but honestly? I think it's more relevant to the Potentates Era now. That makes it very central to the Empire. With that said... I suspect a devotion to Stendarr in the High Rock lands would not only be seen as normal, but downright celebrated.

Aigym_Hlervu · July 2020

I agree with His Highness @RemanCyrodiil_I - if you seek ways to restore the Second Empire, I think that's the most suitable answer to you, OP. The thing I'd like to stick your attention to, is our Pact chief propaganda officer Alla Llaleth's works (The Time of the Ebonheart Pact and the Breaking the Cycle of Tyranny). If you (your character) wants to reanimate that classical feudal Empire of Men based on the subsistence production with only Imperials ruling the state and serving in the Legion (have you noticed it? Unlike the Third Empire's military we see only Imperials serving there), then the Covenant is surely your choice.

But:
- if you support the Empire of future, a multiracial state based on trade and commerce, religious tolerance and capitalist principles established by the recent Guilds Act of 2E 321, "officially sanctioning the Mages, together with the Guilds of Tinkers, Cobblers, Prostitutes, Scribes, Architects, Brewers, Vintners, Weavers, Ratcatchers, Furriers, Cooks, Astrologers, Healers, Tailors, Minstrels, Barristers, and the Syffim", and leading to the formation of various big business companies like the East Empire Company, Blackwood Company, Imperial Trading Company, etc.;
- if you support the idea of news media (like that Black Horse Courier newspaper);
- if you support the idea of a so called "Empire for everyone" where an Altmer can be the High Chancellor, a Dunmer can be the Count of an Imperial city (something unheard of - you just go to Cheydinhal of today, 2E 582, and try to find anyone non-Imperial there) or.. even the head of the entire state,

then your choice would definitely be.. the Pact

. If you read those two books of Alla Llaleth, you will see many ideas the future Third Empire rulers will borrow from there. A real Tamriel Pact. So, I wouldn't brush aside the Pact's policy that quickly. Yes, the Emperor will still be a Man most of the time, but every state is ruled not by a person, but by one of the two socio-economic classes - a large group of people differing from the other class by the place they occupy in a historically determined system of social production, by their relation (in most cases fixed and formulated in law) to the means of production, by their role in the social organization of labor, and, consequently, by the dimensions of the share of social wealth of which they dispose and the mode of acquiring it. In other words, regarding the Third Empire, it's ruling class will be represented by the capitalist owners of the means of production, the richest people of the entire Tamriel, those owners of big capital, heads of guilds and pan-tamrielic trade companies, those who will acquire full power after the Emperor Pelagius II Septim's reform of the Elder Council of 3E 82 that will make them the ruling class ultimately. So, it is up to you to decide: if you support the idea of the obsolete feudal model of the Second Empire - join the Covenant; if you support the progressive capitalist Third Empire - join the Pact. Anyway, the ideas of the Dominion propagated by Aicantar of Shimmerene, Sapiarch of Indoctrination, in his interview and works (check the Crimes of the Daggerfall Covenant. A Summary and the Regarding the Ebonheart Pact), and possibly supported by some of the high-ranking Imperial officers is not the idea that will be shared by the majority of races in Tamriel. Those ideas might win sometimes after 4E 201, but I suppose it won't be the country the people of Tamriel would like to live in - they will not bring peace and prosperity to everyone.

Thus, as a fellow Pact member I urge you to stay within our Alliance and to fight for freedom, progress, peace and future, for the Ebonheart Pact's ideas are the most progressive, tolerant and suitable to every race living in Tamriel

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Eporem · July 2020

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

.

Anyway, I'm asking because I want to make an Imperial character and would like his Alliance to fit into his story with good explanations.

I can of course discuss further and any questions to help me help you give an opinion are welcomed.

What is his story?

CMDR_Un1k0rn · July 2020

Eporem wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

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Anyway, I'm asking because I want to make an Imperial character and would like his Alliance to fit into his story with good explanations.

I can of course discuss further and any questions to help me help you give an opinion are welcomed.

What is his story?

@Eporem, I am definitely going for a more conservative Imperial here. That's why I had to rule out the Pact for this one.

The reason I couldn't quite rule out the Dominion is because I get the impression it wants to maintain the same type of government, if with different people at the head.

But having seen the blatant intent by the Covenant to try and rebuild a Reman Empire, then I think now that surely only the Covenant makes sense for an Imperial such as mine.

Along with that, I do like the flavour of Orcs being a mainstay in the Covenant, as after all, Orcs were long welcomed into the Legion with open arms. If I am not mistaken, the Legion is an Orc's best chance at establishing a better life for themselves outside a tribe.

Eporem · July 2020

I hope one day that a chapter will be released showing Cyrodiil during a more peaceful time.

Aigym_Hlervu · July 2020

Eporem wrote: »

I hope one day that a chapter will be released showing Cyrodiil during a more peaceful time.

That day was March 20, 2006

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MaisonNaevius · July 2020

I chose the Daggerfall Convenant... But it is a default choice.
Because let's be honest, the Imperials remain loyal to the Empire. When Abnur Tharn brought encouraging news about the Empire, I was delighted.

But TESO is mainly focused on the three alliances. And the default, more logical choice would be the Daggerfall Convenant for the will to restore the Second Empire.

The Pact is to be radically excluded and the choice of Dominion is like putting a bullet in the foot.
Remember that the Irregulars and the 13th Legion have no choice because of their isolation. And above all, they have an interest in giving a good image of the Empire.

Nomadic_Atmoran · July 2020

In my opinion the Daggerfall Covenant is really the only logical choice. Breton society in particular is probably the easiest place to integrate as an Imperial refugee due to the long standing history there. And Hammerfell is probably a rougher area but far from intolerable. Orcs coming and going is also something that wouldnt disturb an Imperial.

The EP is just too fragile for anyone, that isn't a half-wit, to consider. Only the Nords would stand out as a relatable group with in that faction. But they too can be off putting for an self respecting Imperial. As for the Aldmeri Dominion, it provides no real familiarity outside of the Altmers religious beliefs. Summerset (before Ayrenns declaration) is xenophobic and closed to outsiders, Valenwood is a hotbed for left over insurrection as well as religious zealots willing to chase you down for nothing more than stepping on a plant. Good luck finding a quiet spot in Valenwood outside of an Altmer established colony city or Elden Root. Elsweyr is a mess from the Knahaten Flu and being carved in half by an Imperial Army. They may find some safety within the city of Rimmen but would probably not fair well outside of its walls due to their racial ties to Euraxia. The safest place for an Imperial in the AD is probably Auridon because of its connections with greater Tamriel. But good luck getting there safely with the increased activity from Maormer. And I get the distinct impression that any large enough groups of refugees would probably instigate the same sort of pushback Aryenn received from the Veiled Heritance.

goldCoaster · July 2020

DC aligns most closely with their globalist, multicultural political ideology.

PrayingSeraph · July 2020

The Daggerfall Covenant is the true successor of the Reman Empire, and if your Imperial is loyal to the Reman Enmoure-that-was, the Covenant would be your best bet. Its essentially the reman empire in spirit.

Aldmeri Dominion is the first of 3 Altmeri empires that run opposed to the very concept of the Cyrodilic empires. I see the Altmeri Dominions as rivals to the Cyrodillic Empires in the grand scheme of things.

The Pact is truly unique from either the Dominions or Empires. There has only been one in Tamriel history, and it has no spiritual predecessor or successor. It truly is and stays unique. I find it much more individualistic than its rivals. I would classify Dominion as the most authoritarian, Pact as the most libertarian and the Covenant as somewhere in the middle.

Soullise · August 2020

Probably the Covenant more than the Dominion. This is considering the fact that Tiber Septim totally decimates the Elves when he conquers Tamriel. It would be weird for the Imperials to just kill off those that were sheltering them.