Don't Worry, Dragonknights!

Zahirr · July 2020

Don't Worry, Dragonknights! We're not getting nerfed this patch, unlike the past 11 patches where we've been nerfed into the ground. And, even better: they're buffing inhale! The heal increases almost 20%, so it heals as much as before the update! AND it deals 20% more damage! A pvp staple, to be sure!

This buff is pandering and this post is sarcasm. Inhale is laughably bad, and buffing it by 100% wouldnt make it see any play in pvp. Some poor soul still trying to tank as a dk in pve might run this skill, but you can tank vet dlc dungeons in light armor with some classes, or with 1 skill as others. PVE doesnt need balance changes as much as PVP, and Dragonknights need a lot, LOT of buffs.

How about we start with actual buffs, like reducing the cost of some class magicka skills, making cauterize only heal ourself and not some rando, or
... i dunno, a STAMINA WHIP!? (Really, a fourth stamina skill would be nice. Getting 2 stamina skills over 8 YEARS). Instead of this pandering buff. No one uses inhale in pvp because its waaay too low damage and waaaaay too low heal, and itll stay that way after pts.

Zahirr · July 2020

I bet buffing inhale by 200% damage woudlnt make it see any play. Its just too expensive and too low impact

Sleep724 · July 2020

DK passives need some updating as well.

BaiterOfZergs · July 2020

Talons+inhale+leap= lol in no cp

It’s so under used that people don’t know how to react.

OBJnoob · July 2020

DKs have been strong for quite a while actually. Oh I remember the years when it wasn’t... but I don’t think this includes the last year. After the update my character got a lot better in duels and arguably worse in open world no cp. lack of mobility... 20% less healing... the same things that everybody else complains about.

I’m not so sure that makes dks weak though. To not necessarily be able to x. I’m just not sure how many toons are above them. Saying something is bad or good, in the context of balance, can only mean anything at all if we say so while comparing to other options.

So I ask you... who is better than dks right now? Necros? Wardens? Only the stam versions though? Magsorc? Stamblade? In my mind that’s roughly half. So I’m not sure it’d be wise to grant dks a large buff. A small buff will do.

Is the inhale buff worthwhile? Perhaps not for stamdk. I bet those real strong magdks wearing elfbane grothdar and whatever else... I bet they are thankful for the buff though. I bet it’ll be extremely useful for them.

Which is too bad because maybe stamdk needed more help than magdk. But I do see the buff as being a way to help dk fight multiple opponents and heal. Which is exactly what was needed. I’m not sure how mad I can actually be? Just because it doesn’t help me personally or in a way I individually requested.

Ultimately I think maybe the magic costs of dk skills are too high for stamdk. BUT I also worry if lowering them would somehow surprise us all by surpassing helpful and instantly becoming OP. My stamdk does better than most of my other Stam characters with magic management. And that’s purely because of what happens when I cast my ultimate... which is cheap, depending on your choice, and can almost be spammed.

Running hardened armor, fragmented shield, and cauterize... can’t really afford to run another magic ability, but I find the 3 are adequately useful and can be casted when needed. And I don’t think any other stam character I have makes use of more than 3, nor more frequently.

Just my two cents. I wouldn’t be upset if we got a better class stam spammable. I wouldn’t be upset with any number of proposed changes... Most of them are excellent observations and problems indeed. But I do think it’s incredibly relevant to point out that dks are not currently weak. They’re just, meh, average.

Zahirr · July 2020

Magica sorcerer is more mobile then DK by a country Mile, because they have the incredible streak, there is no other gap closer in the game that doesnt require a target.. Necromancer, both mag and stam, are way tankier, with massive amounts of percent motigation and healing from their skills, they heal more and tank harder then dk. Nightblades have more damage skills, and have a better setup for doing more damage, what woth things like grim focus hitting as hard as leap and stealth. Templars have always been the go to class for healer role, and magicka templar remains the easy pick, especially considering the only dk skill that heals someone else is cauterize. Wardens... probably do something? Birds? I dunno I dont play a warden. But, in every single role, Dragonknights are outclassed in pvp. EASILY. I'm not saying you cant kill someone as a dk.
Im not saying DK can't be fun to play. I'm saying its unfair, that the only thing that we get to do is DOTS (which a class like warden literally purges for free), and ultimates( which colossus, grave titan, northern storm, Negate, etc etc all outclass our own). The only skill that sets us apart is leap, and even then. Functionally, is leap really that much different from a dawnbreaker?

Drom_Athra_Destroyer · July 2020

OBJnoob wrote: »

DKs have been strong for quite a while actually. Oh I remember the years when it wasn’t... but I don’t think this includes the last year. After the update my character got a lot better in duels and arguably worse in open world no cp. lack of mobility... 20% less healing... the same things that everybody else complains about.

I’m not so sure that makes dks weak though. To not necessarily be able to x. I’m just not sure how many toons are above them. Saying something is bad or good, in the context of balance, can only mean anything at all if we say so while comparing to other options.

So I ask you... who is better than dks right now? Necros? Wardens? Only the stam versions though? Magsorc? Stamblade? In my mind that’s roughly half. So I’m not sure it’d be wise to grant dks a large buff. A small buff will do.

Is the inhale buff worthwhile? Perhaps not for stamdk. I bet those real strong magdks wearing elfbane grothdar and whatever else... I bet they are thankful for the buff though. I bet it’ll be extremely useful for them.

Which is too bad because maybe stamdk needed more help than magdk. But I do see the buff as being a way to help dk fight multiple opponents and heal. Which is exactly what was needed. I’m not sure how mad I can actually be? Just because it doesn’t help me personally or in a way I individually requested.

Ultimately I think maybe the magic costs of dk skills are too high for stamdk. BUT I also worry if lowering them would somehow surprise us all by surpassing helpful and instantly becoming OP. My stamdk does better than most of my other Stam characters with magic management. And that’s purely because of what happens when I cast my ultimate... which is cheap, depending on your choice, and can almost be spammed.

Running hardened armor, fragmented shield, and cauterize... can’t really afford to run another magic ability, but I find the 3 are adequately useful and can be casted when needed. And I don’t think any other stam character I have makes use of more than 3, nor more frequently.

Just my two cents. I wouldn’t be upset if we got a better class stam spammable. I wouldn’t be upset with any number of proposed changes... Most of them are excellent observations and problems indeed. But I do think it’s incredibly relevant to point out that dks are not currently weak. They’re just, meh, average.

Magdk needs more help than stamdk. Imo

Firstmep · July 2020

Drom_Athra_Destroyer wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

DKs have been strong for quite a while actually. Oh I remember the years when it wasn’t... but I don’t think this includes the last year. After the update my character got a lot better in duels and arguably worse in open world no cp. lack of mobility... 20% less healing... the same things that everybody else complains about.

I’m not so sure that makes dks weak though. To not necessarily be able to x. I’m just not sure how many toons are above them. Saying something is bad or good, in the context of balance, can only mean anything at all if we say so while comparing to other options.

So I ask you... who is better than dks right now? Necros? Wardens? Only the stam versions though? Magsorc? Stamblade? In my mind that’s roughly half. So I’m not sure it’d be wise to grant dks a large buff. A small buff will do.

Is the inhale buff worthwhile? Perhaps not for stamdk. I bet those real strong magdks wearing elfbane grothdar and whatever else... I bet they are thankful for the buff though. I bet it’ll be extremely useful for them.

Which is too bad because maybe stamdk needed more help than magdk. But I do see the buff as being a way to help dk fight multiple opponents and heal. Which is exactly what was needed. I’m not sure how mad I can actually be? Just because it doesn’t help me personally or in a way I individually requested.

Ultimately I think maybe the magic costs of dk skills are too high for stamdk. BUT I also worry if lowering them would somehow surprise us all by surpassing helpful and instantly becoming OP. My stamdk does better than most of my other Stam characters with magic management. And that’s purely because of what happens when I cast my ultimate... which is cheap, depending on your choice, and can almost be spammed.

Running hardened armor, fragmented shield, and cauterize... can’t really afford to run another magic ability, but I find the 3 are adequately useful and can be casted when needed. And I don’t think any other stam character I have makes use of more than 3, nor more frequently.

Just my two cents. I wouldn’t be upset if we got a better class stam spammable. I wouldn’t be upset with any number of proposed changes... Most of them are excellent observations and problems indeed. But I do think it’s incredibly relevant to point out that dks are not currently weak. They’re just, meh, average.

Magdk needs more help than stamdk. Imo

Magdks are great in duels and in(at least no cp) group vs group content.
With grothdaar elf bane you become an aoe death machine, as long as your in a group you are golden.
Also leap is a fantastic ultimate, and I don't know any other mag class that can get away with running virtually 0 mag regen and still sustain so well.
Also permablock is still a thing.
If you build your magDK the same way you'd build a sorc then sure, you will probably not do too well.

Drom_Athra_Destroyer · July 2020

Firstmep wrote: »

Drom_Athra_Destroyer wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

DKs have been strong for quite a while actually. Oh I remember the years when it wasn’t... but I don’t think this includes the last year. After the update my character got a lot better in duels and arguably worse in open world no cp. lack of mobility... 20% less healing... the same things that everybody else complains about.

I’m not so sure that makes dks weak though. To not necessarily be able to x. I’m just not sure how many toons are above them. Saying something is bad or good, in the context of balance, can only mean anything at all if we say so while comparing to other options.

So I ask you... who is better than dks right now? Necros? Wardens? Only the stam versions though? Magsorc? Stamblade? In my mind that’s roughly half. So I’m not sure it’d be wise to grant dks a large buff. A small buff will do.

Is the inhale buff worthwhile? Perhaps not for stamdk. I bet those real strong magdks wearing elfbane grothdar and whatever else... I bet they are thankful for the buff though. I bet it’ll be extremely useful for them.

Which is too bad because maybe stamdk needed more help than magdk. But I do see the buff as being a way to help dk fight multiple opponents and heal. Which is exactly what was needed. I’m not sure how mad I can actually be? Just because it doesn’t help me personally or in a way I individually requested.

Ultimately I think maybe the magic costs of dk skills are too high for stamdk. BUT I also worry if lowering them would somehow surprise us all by surpassing helpful and instantly becoming OP. My stamdk does better than most of my other Stam characters with magic management. And that’s purely because of what happens when I cast my ultimate... which is cheap, depending on your choice, and can almost be spammed.

Running hardened armor, fragmented shield, and cauterize... can’t really afford to run another magic ability, but I find the 3 are adequately useful and can be casted when needed. And I don’t think any other stam character I have makes use of more than 3, nor more frequently.

Just my two cents. I wouldn’t be upset if we got a better class stam spammable. I wouldn’t be upset with any number of proposed changes... Most of them are excellent observations and problems indeed. But I do think it’s incredibly relevant to point out that dks are not currently weak. They’re just, meh, average.

Magdk needs more help than stamdk. Imo

Magdks are great in duels and in(at least no cp) group vs group content.
With grothdaar elf bane you become an aoe death machine, as long as your in a group you are golden.
Also leap is a fantastic ultimate, and I don't know any other mag class that can get away with running virtually 0 mag regen and still sustain so well.
Also permablock is still a thing.
If you build your magDK the same way you'd build a sorc then sure, you will probably not do too well.

Magdks mainly shine in duels and group play for cc, root spam, and a lot of single target pressure and a bit of aoe pressure, makes sense. Grothdarr and elf bane is a crutch set combo, the fact that that is always brought up seems to overshadow what the class actually lacks in. First thing is that magdks lack good defensive heals, the best heal you can get is from power lash, which is where you have to stay offensive most of the time in order to get a good heal. If you get overpressured then it's over with. Coagulating blood is the worst burst heal in the game and it gives a useless major buff that you can get from a simple potion, it's also overpriced for how bad it is. Another thing is mobility, mist is buggy, race isn't very helpful if you run malacath, and wings are only good if you're getting ranged from behind. You practically have no means of moving away or readjusting during a fight if you face too much pressure. As for leap, leap is honestly very meh depending on performance. You can sometimes leap someone and it'll either do no damage at all, not do damage or stun someone until 5 seconds later, or just not go off when you really need it to (performance is to blame). The damage is also very dissapointing compared to that of take flight (stam desired leap) In terms of sustain, Elf bane and grothdarr with charged is practically where all that sustain comes from. However, grothdarr is getting a nerf, (it was apparently proccing burning more than intended to), the grothdarr change will hurt magdk sustain. You also have to be in melee range if you want to achieve that sustain, I can't really imagine sustaining with 500 magicka recovery if you're getting overpressured. I haven't seen any magdks permablock at all this patch, I guess that really varies on the build. If you're using grothdarr and elf bane then you most certainly want a charged staff as your main weapon. I'll easily admit that magdk is very strong this patch due to the healing nerf, the introduction of malacath, and proc sets. This makes dots and procs much more lethal this time around, especially in no cp. But it's stengths in 1v1s, groups, and the whole grothdarr elf bane setup meta shouldn't create a blind eye to where the class struggles.