Maintenance for the week of September 22:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 14:00 UTC (10:00AM EDT)
• NA megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 14:00 UTC (10:00AM EDT)
We will be performing maintenance for patch 11.2.1 on the PTS on Monday at 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC).
Question about sweeps!
qwjr8989_ESO
✭✭✭
I don't understand the wording of the sweeps changes! Is this a heal buff or nerf?
Thanks!
Thanks!
0
-
ealdwin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »really, why? I dont really fully get it either
If I understand the patch notes correctly...
Jabs/Sweeps has a primary target + aoe on other targets in the cone. Before the fix, the heal was only calculated on the damage done to that primary target. Meaning if you were fighting 1 wolf vs 10 wolves, the heal would always be the same amount.
Now, the heal is factoring in the damage on the other targets in the cone as well, meaning you're healing against 10 wolves will be greater than against 1 wolf.
It means nothing really if you only are against one target, but against multiple, it's a buff towards survivability. How much of a buff still remains to be seen as people test.
Edit:
I didn't understand them correctly.Edited by ealdwin on 13 July 2020 23:340 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Its a nerf, and not just nerf but massive nerf, that literally killing Jabs vs outnumbered in pvp, just like dev comment said.
Before patch if you fight for example 10 enemies - you deal closest-target damage to 1st enemy and like 40% of it to rest 9 enemies. However heal was calculating differently and each additional enemy you hit would heal you for amount of heal you get from closest-target damage. Now it will calculate for each individual damage, and you can see by yourself how lower it will be given that aoe damage is just 40% of main damage.
For example before patch - you hit 10 enemies and heal you get from closest enemy is 1000. Then total heal from hitting 10 enemies would be 1000x10=10000.
After update it will be 1000+400x9=4600.
As you can see rudiculous decrease.
It might be needed in pve but it overkill for pvp that will lower magplar already low survivability to laughable level without any adjustments.6 -
qwjr8989_ESO✭✭✭Its a nerf, and not just nerf but massive nerf, that literally killing Jabs vs outnumbered in pvp, just like dev comment said.
Before patch if you fight for example 10 enemies - you deal closest-target damage to 1st enemy and like 40% of it to rest 9 enemies. However heal was calculating differently and each additional enemy you hit would heal you for amount of heal you get from closest-target damage. Now it will calculate for each individual damage, and you can see by yourself how lower it will be given that aoe damage is just 40% of main damage.
For example before patch - you hit 10 enemies and heal you get from closest enemy is 1000. Then total heal from hitting 10 enemies would be 1000x10=10000.
After update it will be 1000+400x9=4600.
As you can see rudiculous decrease.
It might be needed in pve but it overkill for pvp that will lower magplar already low survivability to laughable level without any adjustments.
See this is where it's confusing - It doesn't say the bug was closest or even first person hit it says first tick of damage. All the damage even the aoe is considered the first tick. So what your saying could be true with that wording but it could also be the opposite. It is worded very poorly and we really need either someone on the PTS testing it or we need clearification!
@ZOS_GinaBruno0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its a nerf, and not just nerf but massive nerf, that literally killing Jabs vs outnumbered in pvp, just like dev comment said.
Before patch if you fight for example 10 enemies - you deal closest-target damage to 1st enemy and like 40% of it to rest 9 enemies. However heal was calculating differently and each additional enemy you hit would heal you for amount of heal you get from closest-target damage. Now it will calculate for each individual damage, and you can see by yourself how lower it will be given that aoe damage is just 40% of main damage.
For example before patch - you hit 10 enemies and heal you get from closest enemy is 1000. Then total heal from hitting 10 enemies would be 1000x10=10000.
After update it will be 1000+400x9=4600.
As you can see rudiculous decrease.
It might be needed in pve but it overkill for pvp that will lower magplar already low survivability to laughable level without any adjustments.
That is not how I read it at all.
The way I read it is that prior to the fix, "the heal from this ability was based on the damage of the initial hit, rather than the amount of damage done to each individual target" which resulted in "a significant reduction to healing when hitting multiple targets."Puncturing Sweeps (morph): Fixed an issue where the heal from this ability was based on the damage of the initial hit, rather than the amount of damage done to each individual target, resulting in a significant reduction to healing when hitting multiple targets. With this fix, we’ll be keeping a close eye on the Templar’s ability to stay in the thick of the fight.
The inverse of that is "After the fix, the heal from this ability will be based on the amount of damage done to each individual target rather than the damage of the initial hit, which will result in a significant increase to healing when hitting multiple targets."0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Its a nerf, and not just nerf but massive nerf, that literally killing Jabs vs outnumbered in pvp, just like dev comment said.
Before patch if you fight for example 10 enemies - you deal closest-target damage to 1st enemy and like 40% of it to rest 9 enemies. However heal was calculating differently and each additional enemy you hit would heal you for amount of heal you get from closest-target damage. Now it will calculate for each individual damage, and you can see by yourself how lower it will be given that aoe damage is just 40% of main damage.
For example before patch - you hit 10 enemies and heal you get from closest enemy is 1000. Then total heal from hitting 10 enemies would be 1000x10=10000.
After update it will be 1000+400x9=4600.
As you can see rudiculous decrease.
It might be needed in pve but it overkill for pvp that will lower magplar already low survivability to laughable level without any adjustments.
That is not how I read it at all.
The way I read it is that prior to the fix, "the heal from this ability was based on the damage of the initial hit, rather than the amount of damage done to each individual target" which resulted in "a significant reduction to healing when hitting multiple targets."Puncturing Sweeps (morph): Fixed an issue where the heal from this ability was based on the damage of the initial hit, rather than the amount of damage done to each individual target, resulting in a significant reduction to healing when hitting multiple targets. With this fix, we’ll be keeping a close eye on the Templar’s ability to stay in the thick of the fight.
The inverse of that is "After the fix, the heal from this ability will be based on the amount of damage done to each individual target rather than the damage of the initial hit, which will result in a significant increase to healing when hitting multiple targets."
You should read it simplier: " Fixed an issue..., resulting in a sugnificant reduction to healing...".
It means bug fixing of sweeps will result in sugnificant healing reduction.0 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Magplar nerf was long overdue. It requires no skill to play. Just spam jabs and it's very difficult to die.1 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its a nerf, and not just nerf but massive nerf, that literally killing Jabs vs outnumbered in pvp, just like dev comment said.
Before patch if you fight for example 10 enemies - you deal closest-target damage to 1st enemy and like 40% of it to rest 9 enemies. However heal was calculating differently and each additional enemy you hit would heal you for amount of heal you get from closest-target damage. Now it will calculate for each individual damage, and you can see by yourself how lower it will be given that aoe damage is just 40% of main damage.
For example before patch - you hit 10 enemies and heal you get from closest enemy is 1000. Then total heal from hitting 10 enemies would be 1000x10=10000.
After update it will be 1000+400x9=4600.
As you can see rudiculous decrease.
It might be needed in pve but it overkill for pvp that will lower magplar already low survivability to laughable level without any adjustments.
That is not how I read it at all.
The way I read it is that prior to the fix, "the heal from this ability was based on the damage of the initial hit, rather than the amount of damage done to each individual target" which resulted in "a significant reduction to healing when hitting multiple targets."Puncturing Sweeps (morph): Fixed an issue where the heal from this ability was based on the damage of the initial hit, rather than the amount of damage done to each individual target, resulting in a significant reduction to healing when hitting multiple targets. With this fix, we’ll be keeping a close eye on the Templar’s ability to stay in the thick of the fight.
The inverse of that is "After the fix, the heal from this ability will be based on the amount of damage done to each individual target rather than the damage of the initial hit, which will result in a significant increase to healing when hitting multiple targets."
You should read it simplier: " Fixed an issue..., resulting in a sugnificant reduction to healing...".
It means bug fixing of sweeps will result in sugnificant healing reduction.
Except that's not what it says.1 -
Tanis-Stormbinder✭✭✭✭✭Resulting in a significant reduction to healing when hitting multiple targets. So yes a nerf due to a bug fix.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's a buff.
No. It's a big nerf.
Edit: See your assessment of ZOS's wording. While it is grammatically ambiguous, what isn't is that the Sweeps heal is based off damage. If the game is now calculating the heal based on the initial hit, which is always the highest damage, then on Live the Templar is getting the largest heal possible. Any change is going to lower the amount of healing. Though I will admit I'm not motivated to clear up the harddrive and install the PTS on my PC to confirm what appears to be the 4th big nerf thrown at templars this patch.Edited by Joy_Division on 14 July 2020 14:04Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It would be great if they could write these with clarity. Here's the change from the notes:
Fixed an issue where the heal from this ability was based on the damage of the initial hit, rather than the amount of damage done to each individual target, resulting in a significant reduction to healing when hitting multiple targets.
The tooltip reads (for base damage):
Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear. The spear deals 308 Magic Damage to the closest enemy and 118 Magic Damage to all other enemies. Each strike reduces the Movement Speed of the closest enemy by 40% for 1 second. You heal for 40% of the damage done with this ability.
The stated change seems to say that the current actual state is more like this:
Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear. The spear deals 308 Magic Damage to the closest enemy and 118 Magic Damage to all other enemies. Each strike reduces the Movement Speed of the closest enemy by 40% for 1 second. You heal for 40% of the damage done with the initial hit of this ability.
The "fix", therefore, would be that the tooltip as currently written would accurately reflect what is actually happening in game.
The way the sentence is written is confusing because the clause "resulting in a significant reduction to healing when hitting multiple targets" can appear to refer to the problem "the heal from this ability was based on the damage of the initial hit", or it can refer to the "fix", as so:
1. The heal from this ability was based on the damage of the initial hit, resulting in a significant reduction to healing when hitting multiple targets.
2. This fix results in a significant reduction to healing when hitting multiple targets
With this fix, we’ll be keeping a close eye on the Templar’s ability to stay in the thick of the fight. - this appears to imply that this is a nerf and that the templar's ability to "stay in the thick of the fight" is at risk, which leads the reader to think that the "resulting" in the sentence is referring to the fix, not the problem.
A better way to writ these would be to (a) remove any text about monitoring, etc in specific changes, and (b) provide a clear before/after of the function documented in the tooltip. I think a blanket statement about monitoring is sufficient to communicate ZOS's intention to maintain flexibility in combat design and just confusing things. The rest would read like so (if I am correct about my interpretation).
Current state: Puncturing Sweeps currently heals only based off the damage of the initial hit, and does not heal based on the damage of the four hits as intended.
Future state: Puncturing Sweeps will correctly heal based on the total damage from the four hits inflicted upon all enemies as intended.
If I have that wrong, (and I certainly might) what the hell is it then?
In general, their toolips are unclear anyway. They don't explicitly say what type of damage each cast falls into. They often omit specifics and situational issues. It is not known what baseline data feed the strength of the ability. All of that information has to be researched from other resources outside the game. The fact that people can't agree whether this is a nerf or not until someone downloads and logs in to the PTS to compare benchmarks is proof of that. How many people are going to waste time doing that because of this lack of clarity?
ZOS, do a better job, here. During all of this auditing you are doing, take the opportunity to bring further clarity to your game mechanics information both in game, and in the way you communicate changes.Edited by furiouslog on 14 July 2020 14:270 -
qwjr8989_ESO✭✭✭Okay I have gotten on the PTS and tested it out. It is actually really interesting! For this test I used the same character stripped down to nothing but the same staff on both no gear no cp and only sweeps on the bar and nothing else.
So on live when you use combat metrics stix only counts as 1 heal - and every single tick no matter how many enemies is 1 number. The heal was 504. Every single time. 3 enemies was 504x3 10 enemies was 504x10. Whether I crit or not played 0 factor in it.
Please keep in mind while sweeps heal can not crit sweeps itself CAN crit and thus when sweeps crits your heal technically crits as well because the damage is based on the damage - So a big crit = a bigger heal even if the heal isn't critting itself.
Regardless of whether the first tick crit or not on live the heal was 504. Every single time without fail every single tick was 504.
Now on PTS it is not like that. The heal is spaced in combat metrics for a "'primary" target" and a "non primary" The heal on the primary was averaging at 570. While the heal on the other was averaging at around 340ish. The reason for that is differences in resistances. Crits. Everything is now being taken into account. The tests I did the PTS was lower but that was ONLY because I had only 10% crit chance (the base) had a 0% crit (was using the apprentice mundas) And every enemy had the same resistance because it was overworld.
So on the PTS if you were rocking say 50% crit chance with a 30% crit damage modifier (minor force + CP) the damage would be astronomically higher. In PvP where crits are not as big what this means is if a tanky person is infront of you but a squishy is behind them you will heal for more than you would on live because on live you would only heal based on the tanky person but the person in the back you will now heal a higher amount off of. If that person is not wearing impen it will also increase.
The only situation where live healing would be weaker is in PvP while outnumbered fighting multiple max crit resist max MR people. At which point the heal most likely wasn't going to save you anyways so yolo.2 -
qwjr8989_ESO✭✭✭qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »Okay I have gotten on the PTS and tested it out. It is actually really interesting! For this test I used the same character stripped down to nothing but the same staff on both no gear no cp and only sweeps on the bar and nothing else.
So on live when you use combat metrics stix only counts as 1 heal - and every single tick no matter how many enemies is 1 number. The heal was 504. Every single time. 3 enemies was 504x3 10 enemies was 504x10. Whether I crit or not played 0 factor in it.
Please keep in mind while sweeps heal can not crit sweeps itself CAN crit and thus when sweeps crits your heal technically crits as well because the damage is based on the damage - So a big crit = a bigger heal even if the heal isn't critting itself.
Regardless of whether the first tick crit or not on live the heal was 504. Every single time without fail every single tick was 504.
Now on PTS it is not like that. The heal is spaced in combat metrics for a "'primary" target" and a "non primary" The heal on the primary was averaging at 570. While the heal on the other was averaging at around 340ish. The reason for that is differences in resistances. Crits. Everything is now being taken into account. The tests I did the PTS was lower but that was ONLY because I had only 10% crit chance (the base) had a 0% crit (was using the apprentice mundas) And every enemy had the same resistance because it was overworld.
So on the PTS if you were rocking say 50% crit chance with a 30% crit damage modifier (minor force + CP) the damage would be astronomically higher. In PvP where crits are not as big what this means is if a tanky person is infront of you but a squishy is behind them you will heal for more than you would on live because on live you would only heal based on the tanky person but the person in the back you will now heal a higher amount off of. If that person is not wearing impen it will also increase.
The only situation where live healing would be weaker is in PvP while outnumbered fighting multiple max crit resist max MR people. At which point the heal most likely wasn't going to save you anyways so yolo.
Where PTS* healer would be weaker is what I meant0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »Okay I have gotten on the PTS and tested it out. It is actually really interesting! For this test I used the same character stripped down to nothing but the same staff on both no gear no cp and only sweeps on the bar and nothing else.
So on live when you use combat metrics stix only counts as 1 heal - and every single tick no matter how many enemies is 1 number. The heal was 504. Every single time. 3 enemies was 504x3 10 enemies was 504x10. Whether I crit or not played 0 factor in it.
Please keep in mind while sweeps heal can not crit sweeps itself CAN crit and thus when sweeps crits your heal technically crits as well because the damage is based on the damage - So a big crit = a bigger heal even if the heal isn't critting itself.
Regardless of whether the first tick crit or not on live the heal was 504. Every single time without fail every single tick was 504.
Now on PTS it is not like that. The heal is spaced in combat metrics for a "'primary" target" and a "non primary" The heal on the primary was averaging at 570. While the heal on the other was averaging at around 340ish. The reason for that is differences in resistances. Crits. Everything is now being taken into account. The tests I did the PTS was lower but that was ONLY because I had only 10% crit chance (the base) had a 0% crit (was using the apprentice mundas) And every enemy had the same resistance because it was overworld.
So on the PTS if you were rocking say 50% crit chance with a 30% crit damage modifier (minor force + CP) the damage would be astronomically higher. In PvP where crits are not as big what this means is if a tanky person is infront of you but a squishy is behind them you will heal for more than you would on live because on live you would only heal based on the tanky person but the person in the back you will now heal a higher amount off of. If that person is not wearing impen it will also increase.
The only situation where live healing would be weaker is in PvP while outnumbered fighting multiple max crit resist max MR people. At which point the heal most likely wasn't going to save you anyways so yolo.
Told ya so. 😉 (ZOS's communication skills really are abysmal though.)
I'm jealous. Imagine how bad everyone in this thread would've been freaking out if ZOS had simply said they were going to make the heal on Sweeps work like the heal on Swallow Soul — now that would have been a nerf.0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »Okay I have gotten on the PTS and tested it out. It is actually really interesting! For this test I used the same character stripped down to nothing but the same staff on both no gear no cp and only sweeps on the bar and nothing else.
So on live when you use combat metrics stix only counts as 1 heal - and every single tick no matter how many enemies is 1 number. The heal was 504. Every single time. 3 enemies was 504x3 10 enemies was 504x10. Whether I crit or not played 0 factor in it.
Please keep in mind while sweeps heal can not crit sweeps itself CAN crit and thus when sweeps crits your heal technically crits as well because the damage is based on the damage - So a big crit = a bigger heal even if the heal isn't critting itself.
Regardless of whether the first tick crit or not on live the heal was 504. Every single time without fail every single tick was 504.
Now on PTS it is not like that. The heal is spaced in combat metrics for a "'primary" target" and a "non primary" The heal on the primary was averaging at 570. While the heal on the other was averaging at around 340ish. The reason for that is differences in resistances. Crits. Everything is now being taken into account. The tests I did the PTS was lower but that was ONLY because I had only 10% crit chance (the base) had a 0% crit (was using the apprentice mundas) And every enemy had the same resistance because it was overworld.
So on the PTS if you were rocking say 50% crit chance with a 30% crit damage modifier (minor force + CP) the damage would be astronomically higher. In PvP where crits are not as big what this means is if a tanky person is infront of you but a squishy is behind them you will heal for more than you would on live because on live you would only heal based on the tanky person but the person in the back you will now heal a higher amount off of. If that person is not wearing impen it will also increase.
The only situation where live healing would be weaker is in PvP while outnumbered fighting multiple max crit resist max MR people. At which point the heal most likely wasn't going to save you anyways so yolo.
Told ya so. 😉 (ZOS's communication skills really are abysmal though.)
I'm jealous. Imagine how bad everyone in this thread would've been freaking out if ZOS had simply said they were going to make the heal on Sweeps work like the heal on Swallow Soul — now that would have been a nerf.
Here is picture from live server:
My jabs with cp heal for 43.7% of damage
Heal per jab tick now is based on damage you deal to closest target, no matter how many people you hit and what damage you dealt to them. On example it is 1623 damage to closest target and 623 to additional targets, and heal you get from additional targets will be equal to heal from closest target = 709. It wont be 474 which is 43.7% of healing that coming from dealing 623 damage to additional target.
On PTS healing now calculating for damage you deal to each individual target and thus result is my total heal from dealing non-crit damage would be not as on live 709+709 but 709+474, which is obviously weaker.
Now regarding squishy targets/crits/etc. Keep in mind that additional damage of jabs is just 40% of main main damage. It means:
1. Even if you hit tanky target with closest damage and squishy target behind it - you will never meet targets that have such rudiculous damage reductions difference that damage that is just 40% of other damage will be even not jsut more damage/heal but even equal to it.
2. Same goes for crits - on my example crit damage is 2824 and 1233 heal from; noncrit is 1623 into 709 heal. While crit to additional target is 1085 and 474 heal; noncrit is 623 into 272 heal.
If main target will crit and additional wont crit: on live 1233+1233=2466 heal. On pts 1233+272=1505 heal. Reduction in heal is equal to difference in damage - 40%.
Even if maintarget wont crit but additional will crit: on live 709+709=1418. On pts 709+474=1183. Noticable decrease simply coz crit to additional target even with templar crit modifier will be lower than noncrit to maintarget. Even if you hit 50 enemies where noncrit maintarget and crit every of 49 additional targets: live 709x50=35450heal; pts: 709+474x49=23935.
Even if both sources crit: on live 1233+1233=2466. On pts 1233+474=1707. Huge decrease.
Adding to this pvp stuff like nocp where crit chance for templar is just low by default coz side reasons or p2w Malacath Ring which will be meta it will be nerfed and which disable crits at all - live version much superior coz it safier.
All damage into heal spammables already working superior to Sweeps as survivability tool, even nb spamamble that people laughed at. But thats different story.
1 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »Okay I have gotten on the PTS and tested it out. It is actually really interesting! For this test I used the same character stripped down to nothing but the same staff on both no gear no cp and only sweeps on the bar and nothing else.
So on live when you use combat metrics stix only counts as 1 heal - and every single tick no matter how many enemies is 1 number. The heal was 504. Every single time. 3 enemies was 504x3 10 enemies was 504x10. Whether I crit or not played 0 factor in it.
Please keep in mind while sweeps heal can not crit sweeps itself CAN crit and thus when sweeps crits your heal technically crits as well because the damage is based on the damage - So a big crit = a bigger heal even if the heal isn't critting itself.
Regardless of whether the first tick crit or not on live the heal was 504. Every single time without fail every single tick was 504.
Now on PTS it is not like that. The heal is spaced in combat metrics for a "'primary" target" and a "non primary" The heal on the primary was averaging at 570. While the heal on the other was averaging at around 340ish. The reason for that is differences in resistances. Crits. Everything is now being taken into account. The tests I did the PTS was lower but that was ONLY because I had only 10% crit chance (the base) had a 0% crit (was using the apprentice mundas) And every enemy had the same resistance because it was overworld.
So on the PTS if you were rocking say 50% crit chance with a 30% crit damage modifier (minor force + CP) the damage would be astronomically higher. In PvP where crits are not as big what this means is if a tanky person is infront of you but a squishy is behind them you will heal for more than you would on live because on live you would only heal based on the tanky person but the person in the back you will now heal a higher amount off of. If that person is not wearing impen it will also increase.
The only situation where live healing would be weaker is in PvP while outnumbered fighting multiple max crit resist max MR people. At which point the heal most likely wasn't going to save you anyways so yolo.
Told ya so. 😉 (ZOS's communication skills really are abysmal though.)
I'm jealous. Imagine how bad everyone in this thread would've been freaking out if ZOS had simply said they were going to make the heal on Sweeps work like the heal on Swallow Soul — now that would have been a nerf.
Here is picture from live server:
My jabs with cp heal for 43.7% of damage
Heal per jab tick now is based on damage you deal to closest target, no matter how many people you hit and what damage you dealt to them. On example it is 1623 damage to closest target and 623 to additional targets, and heal you get from additional targets will be equal to heal from closest target = 709. It wont be 474 which is 43.7% of healing that coming from dealing 623 damage to additional target.
On PTS healing now calculating for damage you deal to each individual target and thus result is my total heal from dealing non-crit damage would be not as on live 709+709 but 709+474, which is obviously weaker.
Now regarding squishy targets/crits/etc. Keep in mind that additional damage of jabs is just 40% of main main damage. It means:
1. Even if you hit tanky target with closest damage and squishy target behind it - you will never meet targets that have such rudiculous damage reductions difference that damage that is just 40% of other damage will be even not jsut more damage/heal but even equal to it.
2. Same goes for crits - on my example crit damage is 2824 and 1233 heal from; noncrit is 1623 into 709 heal. While crit to additional target is 1085 and 474 heal; noncrit is 623 into 272 heal.
If main target will crit and additional wont crit: on live 1233+1233=2466 heal. On pts 1233+272=1505 heal. Reduction in heal is equal to difference in damage - 40%.
Even if maintarget wont crit but additional will crit: on live 709+709=1418. On pts 709+474=1183. Noticable decrease simply coz crit to additional target even with templar crit modifier will be lower than noncrit to maintarget. Even if you hit 50 enemies where noncrit maintarget and crit every of 49 additional targets: live 709x50=35450heal; pts: 709+474x49=23935.
Even if both sources crit: on live 1233+1233=2466. On pts 1233+474=1707. Huge decrease.
Adding to this pvp stuff like nocp where crit chance for templar is just low by default coz side reasons or p2w Malacath Ring which will be meta it will be nerfed and which disable crits at all - live version much superior coz it safier.
All damage into heal spammables already working superior to Sweeps as survivability tool, even nb spamamble that people laughed at. But thats different story.
I think you may have missed this part of @qwjr8989_ESO's post:The reason for that is differences in resistances. Crits. Everything is now being taken into account. ... So on the PTS ... the damage would be astronomically higher.
His actual testing on the PTS implies that this change does not work the in the same manner that you think it does. And as I said before, the patch notes make it sound like your interpretation is incorrect as well. Do you have the PTS? If so, fire it up & duplicate whatever you did to get the results in your screenshot. I'd be interested in the results.
On a side note, in your last paragraph are you saying that the heal on Swallow Soul is Stronger than the heal on Puncturing Sweeps? If so, can you explain how a single target ability that heals for 35% damage done can heal for more than an AOE ability that does 2x more damage and heals for 40% of damage done? Because that makes no sense at all to me.0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »Okay I have gotten on the PTS and tested it out. It is actually really interesting! For this test I used the same character stripped down to nothing but the same staff on both no gear no cp and only sweeps on the bar and nothing else.
So on live when you use combat metrics stix only counts as 1 heal - and every single tick no matter how many enemies is 1 number. The heal was 504. Every single time. 3 enemies was 504x3 10 enemies was 504x10. Whether I crit or not played 0 factor in it.
Please keep in mind while sweeps heal can not crit sweeps itself CAN crit and thus when sweeps crits your heal technically crits as well because the damage is based on the damage - So a big crit = a bigger heal even if the heal isn't critting itself.
Regardless of whether the first tick crit or not on live the heal was 504. Every single time without fail every single tick was 504.
Now on PTS it is not like that. The heal is spaced in combat metrics for a "'primary" target" and a "non primary" The heal on the primary was averaging at 570. While the heal on the other was averaging at around 340ish. The reason for that is differences in resistances. Crits. Everything is now being taken into account. The tests I did the PTS was lower but that was ONLY because I had only 10% crit chance (the base) had a 0% crit (was using the apprentice mundas) And every enemy had the same resistance because it was overworld.
So on the PTS if you were rocking say 50% crit chance with a 30% crit damage modifier (minor force + CP) the damage would be astronomically higher. In PvP where crits are not as big what this means is if a tanky person is infront of you but a squishy is behind them you will heal for more than you would on live because on live you would only heal based on the tanky person but the person in the back you will now heal a higher amount off of. If that person is not wearing impen it will also increase.
The only situation where live healing would be weaker is in PvP while outnumbered fighting multiple max crit resist max MR people. At which point the heal most likely wasn't going to save you anyways so yolo.
Told ya so. 😉 (ZOS's communication skills really are abysmal though.)
I'm jealous. Imagine how bad everyone in this thread would've been freaking out if ZOS had simply said they were going to make the heal on Sweeps work like the heal on Swallow Soul — now that would have been a nerf.
Here is picture from live server:
My jabs with cp heal for 43.7% of damage
Heal per jab tick now is based on damage you deal to closest target, no matter how many people you hit and what damage you dealt to them. On example it is 1623 damage to closest target and 623 to additional targets, and heal you get from additional targets will be equal to heal from closest target = 709. It wont be 474 which is 43.7% of healing that coming from dealing 623 damage to additional target.
On PTS healing now calculating for damage you deal to each individual target and thus result is my total heal from dealing non-crit damage would be not as on live 709+709 but 709+474, which is obviously weaker.
Now regarding squishy targets/crits/etc. Keep in mind that additional damage of jabs is just 40% of main main damage. It means:
1. Even if you hit tanky target with closest damage and squishy target behind it - you will never meet targets that have such rudiculous damage reductions difference that damage that is just 40% of other damage will be even not jsut more damage/heal but even equal to it.
2. Same goes for crits - on my example crit damage is 2824 and 1233 heal from; noncrit is 1623 into 709 heal. While crit to additional target is 1085 and 474 heal; noncrit is 623 into 272 heal.
If main target will crit and additional wont crit: on live 1233+1233=2466 heal. On pts 1233+272=1505 heal. Reduction in heal is equal to difference in damage - 40%.
Even if maintarget wont crit but additional will crit: on live 709+709=1418. On pts 709+474=1183. Noticable decrease simply coz crit to additional target even with templar crit modifier will be lower than noncrit to maintarget. Even if you hit 50 enemies where noncrit maintarget and crit every of 49 additional targets: live 709x50=35450heal; pts: 709+474x49=23935.
Even if both sources crit: on live 1233+1233=2466. On pts 1233+474=1707. Huge decrease.
Adding to this pvp stuff like nocp where crit chance for templar is just low by default coz side reasons or p2w Malacath Ring which will be meta it will be nerfed and which disable crits at all - live version much superior coz it safier.
All damage into heal spammables already working superior to Sweeps as survivability tool, even nb spamamble that people laughed at. But thats different story.
I think you may have missed this part of @qwjr8989_ESO's post:The reason for that is differences in resistances. Crits. Everything is now being taken into account. ... So on the PTS ... the damage would be astronomically higher.
His actual testing on the PTS implies that this change does not work the in the same manner that you think it does. And as I said before, the patch notes make it sound like your interpretation is incorrect as well. Do you have the PTS? If so, fire it up & duplicate whatever you did to get the results in your screenshot. I'd be interested in the results.
On a side note, in your last paragraph are you saying that the heal on Swallow Soul is Stronger than the heal on Puncturing Sweeps? If so, can you explain how a single target ability that heals for 35% damage done can heal for more than an AOE ability that does 2x more damage and heals for 40% of damage done? Because that makes no sense at all to me.
So I precisely described how it work on live and pts, showed numbers, provided as clear math as possible and you still dont understand? [snip]
I can use as example pts version screenshot but results of change will be same, and can do it only tomorrow.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on 15 July 2020 14:040 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »Okay I have gotten on the PTS and tested it out. It is actually really interesting! For this test I used the same character stripped down to nothing but the same staff on both no gear no cp and only sweeps on the bar and nothing else.
So on live when you use combat metrics stix only counts as 1 heal - and every single tick no matter how many enemies is 1 number. The heal was 504. Every single time. 3 enemies was 504x3 10 enemies was 504x10. Whether I crit or not played 0 factor in it.
Please keep in mind while sweeps heal can not crit sweeps itself CAN crit and thus when sweeps crits your heal technically crits as well because the damage is based on the damage - So a big crit = a bigger heal even if the heal isn't critting itself.
Regardless of whether the first tick crit or not on live the heal was 504. Every single time without fail every single tick was 504.
Now on PTS it is not like that. The heal is spaced in combat metrics for a "'primary" target" and a "non primary" The heal on the primary was averaging at 570. While the heal on the other was averaging at around 340ish. The reason for that is differences in resistances. Crits. Everything is now being taken into account. The tests I did the PTS was lower but that was ONLY because I had only 10% crit chance (the base) had a 0% crit (was using the apprentice mundas) And every enemy had the same resistance because it was overworld.
So on the PTS if you were rocking say 50% crit chance with a 30% crit damage modifier (minor force + CP) the damage would be astronomically higher. In PvP where crits are not as big what this means is if a tanky person is infront of you but a squishy is behind them you will heal for more than you would on live because on live you would only heal based on the tanky person but the person in the back you will now heal a higher amount off of. If that person is not wearing impen it will also increase.
The only situation where live healing would be weaker is in PvP while outnumbered fighting multiple max crit resist max MR people. At which point the heal most likely wasn't going to save you anyways so yolo.
Told ya so. 😉 (ZOS's communication skills really are abysmal though.)
I'm jealous. Imagine how bad everyone in this thread would've been freaking out if ZOS had simply said they were going to make the heal on Sweeps work like the heal on Swallow Soul — now that would have been a nerf.
Here is picture from live server:
My jabs with cp heal for 43.7% of damage
Heal per jab tick now is based on damage you deal to closest target, no matter how many people you hit and what damage you dealt to them. On example it is 1623 damage to closest target and 623 to additional targets, and heal you get from additional targets will be equal to heal from closest target = 709. It wont be 474 which is 43.7% of healing that coming from dealing 623 damage to additional target.
On PTS healing now calculating for damage you deal to each individual target and thus result is my total heal from dealing non-crit damage would be not as on live 709+709 but 709+474, which is obviously weaker.
Now regarding squishy targets/crits/etc. Keep in mind that additional damage of jabs is just 40% of main main damage. It means:
1. Even if you hit tanky target with closest damage and squishy target behind it - you will never meet targets that have such rudiculous damage reductions difference that damage that is just 40% of other damage will be even not jsut more damage/heal but even equal to it.
2. Same goes for crits - on my example crit damage is 2824 and 1233 heal from; noncrit is 1623 into 709 heal. While crit to additional target is 1085 and 474 heal; noncrit is 623 into 272 heal.
If main target will crit and additional wont crit: on live 1233+1233=2466 heal. On pts 1233+272=1505 heal. Reduction in heal is equal to difference in damage - 40%.
Even if maintarget wont crit but additional will crit: on live 709+709=1418. On pts 709+474=1183. Noticable decrease simply coz crit to additional target even with templar crit modifier will be lower than noncrit to maintarget. Even if you hit 50 enemies where noncrit maintarget and crit every of 49 additional targets: live 709x50=35450heal; pts: 709+474x49=23935.
Even if both sources crit: on live 1233+1233=2466. On pts 1233+474=1707. Huge decrease.
Adding to this pvp stuff like nocp where crit chance for templar is just low by default coz side reasons or p2w Malacath Ring which will be meta it will be nerfed and which disable crits at all - live version much superior coz it safier.
All damage into heal spammables already working superior to Sweeps as survivability tool, even nb spamamble that people laughed at. But thats different story.
I think you may have missed this part of @qwjr8989_ESO's post:The reason for that is differences in resistances. Crits. Everything is now being taken into account. ... So on the PTS ... the damage would be astronomically higher.
His actual testing on the PTS implies that this change does not work the in the same manner that you think it does. And as I said before, the patch notes make it sound like your interpretation is incorrect as well. Do you have the PTS? If so, fire it up & duplicate whatever you did to get the results in your screenshot. I'd be interested in the results.
On a side note, in your last paragraph are you saying that the heal on Swallow Soul is Stronger than the heal on Puncturing Sweeps? If so, can you explain how a single target ability that heals for 35% damage done can heal for more than an AOE ability that does 2x more damage and heals for 40% of damage done? Because that makes no sense at all to me.
So I precisely described how it work on live and pts, showed numbers, provided as clear math as possible and you still dont understand? [snip]
You showed a screenshot from the live server and you described how you think it works on the PTS. I asked you to duplicate your live server test on the PTS and post the results, because as of right now your position is pure speculation that is contradicted by the patch notes and what people that have actually tested it are saying. [snip] As I said, you may be correct — I'd just like to see actual numbers rather than speculation.
Also, can you answer my question re: Swallow Soul vs Sweeps? I play magblade and your statement intrigued me.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on 15 July 2020 14:050 -
qwjr8989_ESO✭✭✭qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »Okay I have gotten on the PTS and tested it out. It is actually really interesting! For this test I used the same character stripped down to nothing but the same staff on both no gear no cp and only sweeps on the bar and nothing else.
So on live when you use combat metrics stix only counts as 1 heal - and every single tick no matter how many enemies is 1 number. The heal was 504. Every single time. 3 enemies was 504x3 10 enemies was 504x10. Whether I crit or not played 0 factor in it.
Please keep in mind while sweeps heal can not crit sweeps itself CAN crit and thus when sweeps crits your heal technically crits as well because the damage is based on the damage - So a big crit = a bigger heal even if the heal isn't critting itself.
Regardless of whether the first tick crit or not on live the heal was 504. Every single time without fail every single tick was 504.
Now on PTS it is not like that. The heal is spaced in combat metrics for a "'primary" target" and a "non primary" The heal on the primary was averaging at 570. While the heal on the other was averaging at around 340ish. The reason for that is differences in resistances. Crits. Everything is now being taken into account. The tests I did the PTS was lower but that was ONLY because I had only 10% crit chance (the base) had a 0% crit (was using the apprentice mundas) And every enemy had the same resistance because it was overworld.
So on the PTS if you were rocking say 50% crit chance with a 30% crit damage modifier (minor force + CP) the damage would be astronomically higher. In PvP where crits are not as big what this means is if a tanky person is infront of you but a squishy is behind them you will heal for more than you would on live because on live you would only heal based on the tanky person but the person in the back you will now heal a higher amount off of. If that person is not wearing impen it will also increase.
The only situation where live healing would be weaker is in PvP while outnumbered fighting multiple max crit resist max MR people. At which point the heal most likely wasn't going to save you anyways so yolo.
Told ya so. 😉 (ZOS's communication skills really are abysmal though.)
I'm jealous. Imagine how bad everyone in this thread would've been freaking out if ZOS had simply said they were going to make the heal on Sweeps work like the heal on Swallow Soul — now that would have been a nerf.
Here is picture from live server:
My jabs with cp heal for 43.7% of damage
Heal per jab tick now is based on damage you deal to closest target, no matter how many people you hit and what damage you dealt to them. On example it is 1623 damage to closest target and 623 to additional targets, and heal you get from additional targets will be equal to heal from closest target = 709. It wont be 474 which is 43.7% of healing that coming from dealing 623 damage to additional target.
On PTS healing now calculating for damage you deal to each individual target and thus result is my total heal from dealing non-crit damage would be not as on live 709+709 but 709+474, which is obviously weaker.
Now regarding squishy targets/crits/etc. Keep in mind that additional damage of jabs is just 40% of main main damage. It means:
1. Even if you hit tanky target with closest damage and squishy target behind it - you will never meet targets that have such rudiculous damage reductions difference that damage that is just 40% of other damage will be even not jsut more damage/heal but even equal to it.
2. Same goes for crits - on my example crit damage is 2824 and 1233 heal from; noncrit is 1623 into 709 heal. While crit to additional target is 1085 and 474 heal; noncrit is 623 into 272 heal.
If main target will crit and additional wont crit: on live 1233+1233=2466 heal. On pts 1233+272=1505 heal. Reduction in heal is equal to difference in damage - 40%.
Even if maintarget wont crit but additional will crit: on live 709+709=1418. On pts 709+474=1183. Noticable decrease simply coz crit to additional target even with templar crit modifier will be lower than noncrit to maintarget. Even if you hit 50 enemies where noncrit maintarget and crit every of 49 additional targets: live 709x50=35450heal; pts: 709+474x49=23935.
Even if both sources crit: on live 1233+1233=2466. On pts 1233+474=1707. Huge decrease.
Adding to this pvp stuff like nocp where crit chance for templar is just low by default coz side reasons or p2w Malacath Ring which will be meta it will be nerfed and which disable crits at all - live version much superior coz it safier.
All damage into heal spammables already working superior to Sweeps as survivability tool, even nb spamamble that people laughed at. But thats different story.
As I said though on live even when you crit the heal is not going up. It was 504 times. I did 100s and 100s and 100s of sweeps and they all hit for 504. When I played on PTS when the damage crit the heal went up to 800 averaging at 570 because I only had 10% crit chance and no crit damage. With proper crit chance and propper crit damage that would be higher than 800 and higher average than 570 due to more crits.
On live the heal simply isn't working properly. The first tick is all thats being counted. While technically speaking on average the heals were less (for example when i tested with only 10% crit chance and no crit damage the heals on PTS were actually lower) if I had proper damage/crit/crit healing it would have been higher as the heal would have been fluctuating in numbers higher.0 -
qwjr8989_ESO✭✭✭I would like to emphasize that on live when I hit one target no matter what I did 504. But on PTS even hitting 1 target if I crit the heal was 800. So even 1 target when I crit was higher.
So while 540+540 > 240 + 540. 540+540 < 800 + 400.0 -
Nocturnalan✭✭✭Hopefully it ends up being a strong nerf.Templar Healer PVP/PVE
Stam/Mag Warden PVP
MagSorc PVP
XB1 NA 1100+CP0 -
UppGRAYxDD✭✭✭✭✭
✭Y’all should’ve know by now that anytime the Templar class shows up on patch notes it’s not gonna be a “buff”..."Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."0 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭Live: https://i.imgur.com/JpLmqHk.jpg
PTS: https://i.imgur.com/ausbOpm.jpg
Same setup and buffs on both logs and used the same 3 overland mobs. Used Malacath's band so that Crits didn't screw any consistency in testing.
I used only Puncturing Sweep to deal damage in both.
Notice how the Overheal and Absolute (total healing over the course of combat) done is higher on Live even though I was in combat longer on PTS.1
