erio wrote: »

This is in no particular order. Im sure you can see me lose my mind as the list goes on

Nightblade brings almost nothing to a group

Even with cloak and shade, nightblade is incredibly squishy

If you build tanky, youll do less damage than almost every other class

1 Potion can counter the only thing nightblade WAS unique at

New vampire changes mean nightblade stealth isnt even unique. Adios class identity!

Cast times 100% hit nightblade the hardest, incap doesnt work half the time. Templar still doesnt have a cast time.....

Personally, the nb execute is useless. Sorc can put it on you for a burst, but if you get your opponent to 25% you might as well just use surprise attack or execute

Cloak is EXTREMELY unreliable

The flank mechanic is stupid

Every other ulti besides incap (and the psijic one) is useless (whens the last time you saw someone use Consuming darkness or soul shred)

Literally every other class does everything else besides stealth better

Spamming weak sauce Surprise attack is unfun. But haha jabs!!!!! haha dizzy swing!!!! Its ridiculous.

No delayed burst

Even weaker in no cp (impossible to truely 1vX)

Against any skilled player, your combo is easily dodged (LITERALLY NO UNDODGEABLE ABILITIES??? WHY) Dk has its undodgeable leap! Wardens have theirs, socrs have pets and templars have jabs...

The only viable combo is so extremely predictable

Half the time your abilities dont go off, which literally can mean death on a nightblade (Id say my executes dont go off literally 30-40% of the time, that means that the guy got back up and is already fully healed)

People complained that NB is op, when theyll play a stamcro, or just spam shields and instant heals while blocking on a mag class.

No more major defile

Incap is clunky and awful to use, and so is the 2h ulti, which used to be a fun change of pace that rewarded skilled gameplay. The stun from incap can literally be broken and dodgerolled to avoid the whole combo

Snipe never works on any decent player

Only a bad player who got ganked once cause he was afk on his horse would want to nerf nightblade

Literally everyone realizes how bad nightblade is, but ZOS doesnt listen to the feedback

Why does ZOS keep nerfing nightblade? I dont understand.... They clearly know its broken because they lock or reply half the nbs forum posts

In lag, nb is just unplayable. Literally one of the worst possible classes for primetime

Poison injection does like no damage

Is there a single 2020 build for stamblade that doesnt use NMA?

Haha whats that? You wanted to win against a petsorc in anywhere besides a rock or tower? lol. Even if you get your combo off, the pets probably body blocked your incap and relentless lmao

Can't stun with heavy attack into surprise attack out of Cloak anymore apparently (..........) No it was not a bug

Other class abilities have insane range, but sa has like none, which adds to clunkiness. Nothing as fun as being a nb and trying to hit someone as they just kite you around. Apparently the squishiest class has to be right up in all that aoe jabs goodness

Relentless is just so easy to dodge its so slow

Nbs key ability cloak, which they rely on to work can be broken easily by half the dk skills

The fear skill is so barebones....

Rally isnt a hot

I feel like you almost need to be a wood elf for the movement speed and recovery.

No fracture, and mark is terrible, makes you so obvious when ganking, and is pretty much useless in any other playstyle

Pretty much impossible to run a damage utility set. Has to be a damage damage set

Hey you know expansions, like how in every other mmo, the devs try to balance stuff. Instead, apparently "Nbs ArEnT tHe FoCuS...." Its an xpac about vampires.... Half of the nightblades in the world are vampires.


Im sure I left some stuff out. Please feel free to add them. I dont think any other class is as pitiful right now. Each other class at least has one truly viable spec, but not nightblade.

Nightblade brings almost nothing to a group - Stamblade no but also as nearly all stam class..Magblade is different story..

Even with cloak and shade, nightblade is incredibly squishy .--- shade and cloak provide ultimate escape tool just L2P to use it (I have less dead on my stambladne then my super heavy tank Dk just because I am able to leave many fights even ration is one of the best on all clases 3,1kill/1 death.. only my magsorc have slighltly better ratio)

If you build tanky, youll do less damage than almost every other class.. So what u want? NB are best at any choice?

1 Potion can counter the only thing nightblade WAS unique .. this is not such problem biggest problem with stealth is desync ... this need to be fixed..

New vampire changes mean nightblade stealth isnt even unique. Adios class identity!... Vampire do not have access to instant cloak which is strong try also another class not only NB and u will see how frustraning this skill can be escpecialy in IC pvp. (While you are at Vampire Stage 4 Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.) First u need to be at Stage 4 (unplayble for pvp) and u will get this affter 3s of sprint...

Personally, the nb execute is useless. Sorc can put it on you for a burst, but if you get your opponent to 25% you might as well just use surprise attack or execute.. thats true... but u can use 2h execute (like many stamNB did) or use Whirling Blades.

Cloak is EXTREMELY unreliable... Desync but it is not problem only for NB. Its general problem for whole game (honestly snipeblade benefit from this isssue mosly)

Incap is clunky and awful to use, and so is the 2h ulti, which used to be a fun change of pace that rewarded skilled gameplay. The stun from incap can literally be broken and dodgerolled to avoid the whole combo.. Incap is strong one of the stringest ultimate... so what do you want blade of woe? one combo one guarranted kill?....

The flank mechanic is stupid.. I agree.. not because idea is stupid but if I take current performance in to the account ...


Literally every other class does everything else besides stealth better.. not true try to play them.. NB is best gang class ...again NB shoud be best of all in ebery aspekt of game?

Spamming weak sauce Surprise attack is unfun. But haha jabs!!!!! haha dizzy swing!!!! Its ridiculous.... Jabs is broken that true but its not instant cast ability ... Dizzy is cast.. Surprise attack has decend dmg and uniue debuff ...


No delayed burst.. but they have acccess to Relentless Focus .. so NB has access to masive burst.. especially unbreakble animation of Mass Hysteria. or Magnum Shot (can be use from stealt no one have chance to block )

Even weaker in no cp (impossible to truely 1vX).. 1vsX it is nearly mpossible in non CP for all clasess..



Against any skilled player, your combo is easily dodged (LITERALLY NO UNDODGEABLE ABILITIES??? WHY) Dk has its undodgeable leap! Wardens have theirs, socrs have pets and templars have jabs... skilled player first CC and then burst f.e. mass histeria will solve your problem..

The only viable combo is so extremely predictable.. which claass is not predicable?.. NB is less predicalbe CC and burst since they can start from stealth...

Literally everyone realizes how bad nightblade is, but ZOS doesnt listen to the feedback.....that is reaspon why NB is most common class at Top 5 PvP Battles... just L2P issue even bad player like me can perform prety well in PVP and reach 3.1 killr ration in 400 battlegrounds..

People complained that NB is op, when theyll play a stamcro, or just spam shields and instant heals while blocking on a mag class. Mag sheilds are weak affter nerf..

Poison injection does like no damage... is it realted to NB this ability is used also by othetr classes and yes they shoudl revert changes,..

No more major defile it accessible for some other clases but i really do not see often someone use darkflare just stamcro


Rally isnt a hot-- but vigor yes and its not realted to NB ..

I feel like you almost need to be a wood elf for the movement speed and recovery... no u need to be khajit to have 10% to crits...

No fracture, and mark is terrible, makes you so obvious when ganking, and is pretty much useless in any other playstyle.. mark and suprise debuff can stack...

Joinovikova wrote: »

erio wrote: »

This is in no particular order. Im sure you can see me lose my mind as the list goes on

Nightblade brings almost nothing to a group

Even with cloak and shade, nightblade is incredibly squishy

If you build tanky, youll do less damage than almost every other class

1 Potion can counter the only thing nightblade WAS unique at

New vampire changes mean nightblade stealth isnt even unique. Adios class identity!

Cast times 100% hit nightblade the hardest, incap doesnt work half the time. Templar still doesnt have a cast time.....

Personally, the nb execute is useless. Sorc can put it on you for a burst, but if you get your opponent to 25% you might as well just use surprise attack or execute

Cloak is EXTREMELY unreliable

The flank mechanic is stupid

Every other ulti besides incap (and the psijic one) is useless (whens the last time you saw someone use Consuming darkness or soul shred)

Literally every other class does everything else besides stealth better

Spamming weak sauce Surprise attack is unfun. But haha jabs!!!!! haha dizzy swing!!!! Its ridiculous.

No delayed burst

Even weaker in no cp (impossible to truely 1vX)

Against any skilled player, your combo is easily dodged (LITERALLY NO UNDODGEABLE ABILITIES??? WHY) Dk has its undodgeable leap! Wardens have theirs, socrs have pets and templars have jabs...

The only viable combo is so extremely predictable

Half the time your abilities dont go off, which literally can mean death on a nightblade (Id say my executes dont go off literally 30-40% of the time, that means that the guy got back up and is already fully healed)

People complained that NB is op, when theyll play a stamcro, or just spam shields and instant heals while blocking on a mag class.

No more major defile

Incap is clunky and awful to use, and so is the 2h ulti, which used to be a fun change of pace that rewarded skilled gameplay. The stun from incap can literally be broken and dodgerolled to avoid the whole combo

Snipe never works on any decent player

Only a bad player who got ganked once cause he was afk on his horse would want to nerf nightblade

Literally everyone realizes how bad nightblade is, but ZOS doesnt listen to the feedback

Why does ZOS keep nerfing nightblade? I dont understand.... They clearly know its broken because they lock or reply half the nbs forum posts

In lag, nb is just unplayable. Literally one of the worst possible classes for primetime

Poison injection does like no damage

Is there a single 2020 build for stamblade that doesnt use NMA?

Haha whats that? You wanted to win against a petsorc in anywhere besides a rock or tower? lol. Even if you get your combo off, the pets probably body blocked your incap and relentless lmao

Can't stun with heavy attack into surprise attack out of Cloak anymore apparently (..........) No it was not a bug

Other class abilities have insane range, but sa has like none, which adds to clunkiness. Nothing as fun as being a nb and trying to hit someone as they just kite you around. Apparently the squishiest class has to be right up in all that aoe jabs goodness

Relentless is just so easy to dodge its so slow

Nbs key ability cloak, which they rely on to work can be broken easily by half the dk skills

The fear skill is so barebones....

Rally isnt a hot

I feel like you almost need to be a wood elf for the movement speed and recovery.

No fracture, and mark is terrible, makes you so obvious when ganking, and is pretty much useless in any other playstyle

Pretty much impossible to run a damage utility set. Has to be a damage damage set

Hey you know expansions, like how in every other mmo, the devs try to balance stuff. Instead, apparently "Nbs ArEnT tHe FoCuS...." Its an xpac about vampires.... Half of the nightblades in the world are vampires.


Im sure I left some stuff out. Please feel free to add them. I dont think any other class is as pitiful right now. Each other class at least has one truly viable spec, but not nightblade.

Nightblade brings almost nothing to a group - Stamblade no but also as nearly all stam class..Magblade is different story..

Even with cloak and shade, nightblade is incredibly squishy .--- shade and cloak provide ultimate escape tool just L2P to use it (I have less dead on my stambladne then my super heavy tank Dk just because I am able to leave many fights even ration is one of the best on all clases 3,1kill/1 death.. only my magsorc have slighltly better ratio)

If you build tanky, youll do less damage than almost every other class.. So what u want? NB are best at any choice?

1 Potion can counter the only thing nightblade WAS unique .. this is not such problem biggest problem with stealth is desync ... this need to be fixed..

New vampire changes mean nightblade stealth isnt even unique. Adios class identity!... Vampire do not have access to instant cloak which is strong try also another class not only NB and u will see how frustraning this skill can be escpecialy in IC pvp. (While you are at Vampire Stage 4 Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.) First u need to be at Stage 4 (unplayble for pvp) and u will get this affter 3s of sprint...

Personally, the nb execute is useless. Sorc can put it on you for a burst, but if you get your opponent to 25% you might as well just use surprise attack or execute.. thats true... but u can use 2h execute (like many stamNB did) or use Whirling Blades.

Cloak is EXTREMELY unreliable... Desync but it is not problem only for NB. Its general problem for whole game (honestly snipeblade benefit from this isssue mosly)

Incap is clunky and awful to use, and so is the 2h ulti, which used to be a fun change of pace that rewarded skilled gameplay. The stun from incap can literally be broken and dodgerolled to avoid the whole combo.. Incap is strong one of the stringest ultimate... so what do you want blade of woe? one combo one guarranted kill?....

The flank mechanic is stupid.. I agree.. not because idea is stupid but if I take current performance in to the account ...


Literally every other class does everything else besides stealth better.. not true try to play them.. NB is best gang class ...again NB shoud be best of all in ebery aspekt of game?

Spamming weak sauce Surprise attack is unfun. But haha jabs!!!!! haha dizzy swing!!!! Its ridiculous.... Jabs is broken that true but its not instant cast ability ... Dizzy is cast.. Surprise attack has decend dmg and uniue debuff ...


No delayed burst.. but they have acccess to Relentless Focus .. so NB has access to masive burst.. especially unbreakble animation of Mass Hysteria. or Magnum Shot (can be use from stealt no one have chance to block )

Even weaker in no cp (impossible to truely 1vX).. 1vsX it is nearly mpossible in non CP for all clasess..



Against any skilled player, your combo is easily dodged (LITERALLY NO UNDODGEABLE ABILITIES??? WHY) Dk has its undodgeable leap! Wardens have theirs, socrs have pets and templars have jabs... skilled player first CC and then burst f.e. mass histeria will solve your problem..

The only viable combo is so extremely predictable.. which claass is not predicable?.. NB is less predicalbe CC and burst since they can start from stealth...

Literally everyone realizes how bad nightblade is, but ZOS doesnt listen to the feedback.....that is reaspon why NB is most common class at Top 5 PvP Battles... just L2P issue even bad player like me can perform prety well in PVP and reach 3.1 killr ration in 400 battlegrounds..

People complained that NB is op, when theyll play a stamcro, or just spam shields and instant heals while blocking on a mag class. Mag sheilds are weak affter nerf..

Poison injection does like no damage... is it realted to NB this ability is used also by othetr classes and yes they shoudl revert changes,..

No more major defile it accessible for some other clases but i really do not see often someone use darkflare just stamcro


Rally isnt a hot-- but vigor yes and its not realted to NB ..

I feel like you almost need to be a wood elf for the movement speed and recovery... no u need to be khajit to have 10% to crits...

No fracture, and mark is terrible, makes you so obvious when ganking, and is pretty much useless in any other playstyle.. mark and suprise debuff can stack...

Stamblade has literally 0 buffs for the group. Other stam classes bring something.

This isnt a l2p issue. You have less dead on your stambladne, because you dont even get into big fights at all. You have to run away at the first sign of trouble. Thats such a flawed comparison when the playstyles are completely different, and you havent spend equal time on each.

If i build tanky, i expect to do damage, similar to every other class. I expect to still not be able to be bursted.

A 20 yard detection range on a potion vs 6 yards on a slotted skill. Yea thats silly. It is a problem.

Just cause "Vampire do not have access to instant cloak which is strong" doesnt mean thats its not taking class identity away from the nb.

".. thats true... but u can use 2h execute (like many stamNB did) or use Whirling Blades." Not sure what youre saying.. Yes it is useless, thats what I said...

Im sure snipeblade couldnt benefit if they could actually do any damage

When did i say I wanted blade of woe? When comparing other classes and their unavoidable damage, Nightblade is SEVERELY lacking. Your whole post is full of strawmanning.

"NB is best gang class ...again NB shoud be best of all in ebery aspekt of game?" No its not... A group or sorcs, or dks would be stronger, considering they can actually do more damage and buff eachother. When did I say nb should be the best? I never said they should.

"Jabs is broken that true but its not instant cast ability ... Dizzy is cast.. Surprise attack has decend dmg and uniue debuff ..." Yes its an almost unreliable stun considering it never works. Yes dizzy is a cast, yes jabs is not instant cast ability. Maybe you didnt read what i wrote.

".. but they have acccess to Relentless Focus .. so NB has access to masive burst.. especially unbreakble animation of Mass Hysteria. or Magnum Shot (can be use from stealt no one have chance to block )" By that logic literally every ranged skill in the game is a burst. Mass hysteria isnt a delayed burst. Magnum shot isnt a delayed burst. Those are stuns....

"Even weaker in no cp (impossible to truely 1vX).. 1vsX it is nearly mpossible in non CP for all clasess.. " Oh I wish that was true. Have you ever met odysseus southxwind?

"skilled player first CC and then burst f.e. mass histeria will solve your problem.. " buddy did you even read what i wrote? You can literally cc break and dodgeroll before the combo goes off, dodging it.

"NB is less predicalbe CC and burst since they can start from stealth... " Really? So when you see a nb go cloak you just sit there and let it hit you? Its extremely predictable. Heavy attack into sa or incap.

"that is reaspon why NB is most common class at Top 5 PvP Battles... just L2P issue even bad player like me can perform prety well in PVP and reach 3.1 killr ration in 400 battlegrounds.. " Im not sure what top 5 pvp battles is? Are you talking about kristopher eso? Thats not really a good measurement of how balanced a class is. This isnt a l2p issue, when you look at the flaws above.

"Mag sheilds are weak affter nerf.. " Really? I wish.

"Rally isnt a hot-- but vigor yes and its not realted to NB .." Just because its not in the nb skilltree, does not mean its not an issue.

" no u need to be khajit to have 10% to crits..." Enjoy little recovery and never being able to escape against any decent player. The crit buff is garbage when everyone runs impen.

"No fracture, and mark is terrible, makes you so obvious when ganking, and is pretty much useless in any other playstyle.. mark and suprise debuff can stack... " Yes and when they stack its still useless to even slot mark.

Fawn4287 wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

People really complain about nightblade lmao, magica nb is the strongest duelling class in the game with refreshing path buff and the dot nerf, stamblade also has access to shade for minor maim that reapplies every 3 seconds so you cant even cleanse it, you get 10% mitigation for holding the bow proc, most run minor protection on the backbar with a potentates bow. You can run it with nma, swift and balorgh on an orc, hit 5k weapon damage without the balorgh proc, you get 20% extra damage for incap, think how strong that is, almost a major brutality buff on a pretty hard hitting ult for 75 ult. The class is still very strong, it just doesn’t play well as a pure gank roley polly 3 hit burst combo any more.

Im sorry, ive bever heard of a nightblade using refreshing path in pvp. In any capacity.

I will agree they are strong in 1v1 dueling only though.

At least in my experience but still not op. Anyone who knows the nightblade combos will have an easy time negating them.

How do you negate soul harvest, fear, bow?

have the reaction speed of an average human break free and roll dodge/block wow bow didnt hit what a surprise

Nightblade need more damage for burst from cloak (granted, by vampire now, though screwed by changes to HA)..
But don't tell me NB is not tanky. NB is tanky AF. Naturally renewable minor maim, teleport to shade, 10% at stacked grim focus, access to major evasion in any armor....

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Nightblade need more damage for burst from cloak (granted, by vampire now, though screwed by changes to HA)..
But don't tell me NB is not tanky. NB is tanky AF. Naturally renewable minor maim, teleport to shade, 10% at stacked grim focus, access to major evasion in any armor....

Yeah so tanky that still one of the squshiest class.

You should do some bg on a NB at decent mmr before talking.

NB tanky AF i've heard it all.

It all depends on build. If you mean gank builds of course they are not tanky. But sometimes you may meet "brawler" blades with BRP DW backbar or S&B, shuffle, shade and they are tanky AF. Yes, their burst is lacking, and that's why I wrote that NB needs buffs to damage, but certainly not another mitigation passive.

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Nightblade need more damage for burst from cloak (granted, by vampire now, though screwed by changes to HA)..
But don't tell me NB is not tanky. NB is tanky AF. Naturally renewable minor maim, teleport to shade, 10% at stacked grim focus, access to major evasion in any armor....

Yeah so tanky that still one of the squshiest class.

You should do some bg on a NB at decent mmr before talking.

NB tanky AF i've heard it all.

It all depends on build. If you mean gank builds of course they are not tanky. But sometimes you may meet "brawler" blades with BRP DW backbar or S&B, shuffle, shade and they are tanky AF. Yes, their burst is lacking, and that's why I wrote that NB needs buffs to damage, but certainly not another mitigation passive.

Every class with that setup is tanky,the difference is they still have better healing and dmg than NB on the said build reason why you see almost no one play with that setup on a NB.(and maybe even utility)

If you play a "normal" Nb build the dmg is not lacking is just unreliable and in some case but not a NB class problem some class can mitigate too much dmg and outheal everything you do.

A Nb is not tanky it CAN BE tanky if they choose to but with too many drawback compared to every other class on the same setup.

Even with all the buff up some people can still 100-0 on their burst combo my NB and it's not like im playing a full glass cannon build with less than 20k hp,in return on most case i can't do the same because their mitigation and heal are just too good(and people stacking impen are not helping either) not to mention is too easy to dodge the burst combo of the NB class.

Maybe in cp-pvp is different but persoanlly i don't like it so can't say much.

I think anybody agrees that nightblades need buffs, maybe to healing, maybe to damage. Cast time from incap/harvest should be removed 100%.
Also all this depends on a lot of factors, all those wardens/stamcros they all have 30k+ HP naturally without sacrifices, by stacking nord/orc + class passives, they all have great healing and synergy with dizzy. We can't ask for every class to be buffed to the same level of tankiness/healing, it will be simply boring. NB and DK now have sort of identity crisis, and buffs/changes to them should be specific to their class and not giving them same tools as meta classes have... you may just look at stamsorc, which received delayed burst ability (daggers), but that didn't make stamsorcs especially happy...
So if DK is dot class, then DK should receive buff to dots or some unique mechanic related to them. If NB is cloak/stealth class, then reliability of burst from cloak/stealth should be increased. If stamsorc is "fast" class then ZOS needs to invent something related to speed, maybe scale damage depending on speed on which ability was used... if stamplar is "jab" class, then change jabs to be more reliable, there were plenty of suggestions like making jabs targetable, making hit on target non-aoe (secondary hits still aoe) and decreasing damage maybe for 15%. That way jabs won't demolish slow targets without major evasion, and in the same time won't be useless against mobile classes with shuffle...

There are plenty of ideas, but as for now it seems like ZOS is prioritizing warden/necromancer, keeps magsorc relevant (not because ZOS wants it, but simply because ~40% of population are magsorc mains), throws a bone to templars each patch one way or another, but DK and NB (+ stamsorc and magcro as "secondary" specs of main spec) are low priority...