Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »When I made this list I did not expect it to be this long. Just thought the typical answers was a bit too simple. So I compiled a list of leaders and notable members of the alliances. This took far longer than I actually expected, but some of these lists may be incomplete or still need to be fleshed out by ZOS.
Aristocles22 wrote: »I should point out that the Mane is only the spiritual leader of the Khajiit. The Speaker (Lord Garash-Ri) is the real leader; we even see his projection along with the various kings and queens when Mannimarco shows them bowing before him in a egotistical display. Also keep in mind that the local leaders have considerable autonomy in Elsweyr.
Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Aristocles22 wrote: »I should point out that the Mane is only the spiritual leader of the Khajiit. The Speaker (Lord Garash-Ri) is the real leader; we even see his projection along with the various kings and queens when Mannimarco shows them bowing before him in a egotistical display. Also keep in mind that the local leaders have considerable autonomy in Elsweyr.
As far as I can tell there is no one above the Mane as far as leadership goes. Garesh-ri is nothing more than a mouth-piece for the Mane. Obviously being the Speaker is going to garner you a great deal of power and respect when your word is basically taken as directly coming from the Mane whether it was his/her position or not. Lord Gareshi-ri will tell you himself that he was dispatched to Northern Elsweyr as the Mane was too busy with other matters.
When you meet Garesh-ri in Norther Elsweyr his dialogue changes based on your previous interactions. If you met him before in the AD storyline his response to you is:
"When Abnur Tharn spoke of a hero of renown, I had no idea he was referring to you. It's so good to see you again, though I wish the circumstances were not so dire.
Well, you helped the Mane before. I have no doubt you will do so again."
And when asked if the Mane is in Northern Elsweyr his response is this:
"No. Matters in other parts of Elsweyr occupy the Mane right now. That's why I'm here.
I originally arrived to take charge of the Northern Elsweyr Defense Force. Efforts to expel the usurper Euraxia Tharn were well underway when the Dragons appeared."
In both instances he is implying that the Mane has more authority and that he is doing the bidding of the Mane.
And Mannimarcos choice of representation for the Khajiit says more about his lack of knowledge about the Khajiiti people than it does about the Speakers authority.
Aristocles22 wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Aristocles22 wrote: »I should point out that the Mane is only the spiritual leader of the Khajiit. The Speaker (Lord Garash-Ri) is the real leader; we even see his projection along with the various kings and queens when Mannimarco shows them bowing before him in a egotistical display. Also keep in mind that the local leaders have considerable autonomy in Elsweyr.
As far as I can tell there is no one above the Mane as far as leadership goes. Garesh-ri is nothing more than a mouth-piece for the Mane. Obviously being the Speaker is going to garner you a great deal of power and respect when your word is basically taken as directly coming from the Mane whether it was his/her position or not. Lord Gareshi-ri will tell you himself that he was dispatched to Northern Elsweyr as the Mane was too busy with other matters.
When you meet Garesh-ri in Norther Elsweyr his dialogue changes based on your previous interactions. If you met him before in the AD storyline his response to you is:
"When Abnur Tharn spoke of a hero of renown, I had no idea he was referring to you. It's so good to see you again, though I wish the circumstances were not so dire.
Well, you helped the Mane before. I have no doubt you will do so again."
And when asked if the Mane is in Northern Elsweyr his response is this:
"No. Matters in other parts of Elsweyr occupy the Mane right now. That's why I'm here.
I originally arrived to take charge of the Northern Elsweyr Defense Force. Efforts to expel the usurper Euraxia Tharn were well underway when the Dragons appeared."
In both instances he is implying that the Mane has more authority and that he is doing the bidding of the Mane.
And Mannimarcos choice of representation for the Khajiit says more about his lack of knowledge about the Khajiiti people than it does about the Speakers authority.
The lore seems inconsistent at points, but the Mane was only ever called the spiritual leader, and we never see the Mane actually doing much of anything when it comes to actually leading. The Mane is probably occupied with matters involving religion, rather than much that is political. So my point about the Speaker holding the real power still stands, like the PM of the United Kingdom as opposed to the King or Queen, even if the UK's government is still technically "his/her majesty's government". I'm quite certain Mannimarco wasn't making any mistakes when it came to political power; he's far too intelligent for that.
Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Aristocles22 wrote: »Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Aristocles22 wrote: »I should point out that the Mane is only the spiritual leader of the Khajiit. The Speaker (Lord Garash-Ri) is the real leader; we even see his projection along with the various kings and queens when Mannimarco shows them bowing before him in a egotistical display. Also keep in mind that the local leaders have considerable autonomy in Elsweyr.
As far as I can tell there is no one above the Mane as far as leadership goes. Garesh-ri is nothing more than a mouth-piece for the Mane. Obviously being the Speaker is going to garner you a great deal of power and respect when your word is basically taken as directly coming from the Mane whether it was his/her position or not. Lord Gareshi-ri will tell you himself that he was dispatched to Northern Elsweyr as the Mane was too busy with other matters.
When you meet Garesh-ri in Norther Elsweyr his dialogue changes based on your previous interactions. If you met him before in the AD storyline his response to you is:
"When Abnur Tharn spoke of a hero of renown, I had no idea he was referring to you. It's so good to see you again, though I wish the circumstances were not so dire.
Well, you helped the Mane before. I have no doubt you will do so again."
And when asked if the Mane is in Northern Elsweyr his response is this:
"No. Matters in other parts of Elsweyr occupy the Mane right now. That's why I'm here.
I originally arrived to take charge of the Northern Elsweyr Defense Force. Efforts to expel the usurper Euraxia Tharn were well underway when the Dragons appeared."
In both instances he is implying that the Mane has more authority and that he is doing the bidding of the Mane.
And Mannimarcos choice of representation for the Khajiit says more about his lack of knowledge about the Khajiiti people than it does about the Speakers authority.
The lore seems inconsistent at points, but the Mane was only ever called the spiritual leader, and we never see the Mane actually doing much of anything when it comes to actually leading. The Mane is probably occupied with matters involving religion, rather than much that is political. So my point about the Speaker holding the real power still stands, like the PM of the United Kingdom as opposed to the King or Queen, even if the UK's government is still technically "his/her majesty's government". I'm quite certain Mannimarco wasn't making any mistakes when it came to political power; he's far too intelligent for that.
So your argument is that the lore is inconsistent except when it favors your position?
PrinceShroob wrote: »With regard to the Mane's versus the Speaker's authority, it's worth noting that Shazah, a candidate for the position of Mane, says that Akkuz-ri "always deferred to Gharesh-ri in political matters" and that the Speaker "does most of the actual governing." Notably, the Mane did not sign the document creating the Aldmeri Dominion, but the Speaker did. Khamira, a personal spy, the equivalent to Ayrenn's Eyes of the Queen, is an agent of the Speaker, specifically, not the Mane.
I should note that there is no dialogue explicitly stating that Akkuz-ri did not sign the Elden Accord while Gharesh-ri did, but that seems to be the tenor of Shazah's comment on the matter. The fact that Akkuz-ri was present for the signing but did not actually sign the Accord is telling, I think.
PrinceShroob wrote: »With regard to the Mane's versus the Speaker's authority, it's worth noting that Shazah, a candidate for the position of Mane, says that Akkuz-ri "always deferred to Gharesh-ri in political matters" and that the Speaker "does most of the actual governing." Notably, the Mane did not sign the document creating the Aldmeri Dominion, but the Speaker did. Khamira, a personal spy, the equivalent to Ayrenn's Eyes of the Queen, is an agent of the Speaker, specifically, not the Mane.
I should note that there is no dialogue explicitly stating that Akkuz-ri did not sign the Elden Accord while Gharesh-ri did, but that seems to be the tenor of Shazah's comment on the matter. The fact that Akkuz-ri was present for the signing but did not actually sign the Accord is telling, I think.