Price wars in guilds and how to handle them?

ChimpyChumpy · May 2020

I'm lucky enough to be in a high volume guild. Over the last few months I have been focusing on leveling up alts. Before the new year I would flip gold mats and make ok money. I now have hundreds of gold tempers, rosin and dreugh, not from buying but from surveys and writs. I get a consistent amount of platings to sell as well.

Problem is, even if I list at a decent price people undercut right away. I know prices are high now but I can't even list anything.

Not complaining about the competition, just wondering if I should go nuclear and start selling dreugh at 7k and gold tempers at 4 or something.

Before the price increases I could buy dreugh at 6 and sell at 7 no problem.

Not sure if this kind of discussion is frowned upon but I'm ready to sell and figure if my own guild mates are undercutting I may as well.

Heck there's a guy that makes millions weekly selling nirnhoned weapons at 22k, l don't get where he gets all this nirncrux, but he just floods the guild store. I was selling them at close to 30 before this craziness started.

zyk · May 2020

That's how commodity markets work. If you dump your items, they will be quickly purchased and there will be no real impact. You may not realize it, but that happens constantly. There are different types of sellers who may obtain their inventories differently and have different motivations.

For example, there are high volume, low margin resellers who gamble they can resell an item for a small profit. They will typically price items very aggressively so they sell quickly. A low volume seller might choose to make extra efforts to sell for the highest price possible. Some sellers don't want to put effort into it, so sell items awarded during that play session significantly below market value so they definitely sell quickly.

Trait research items are easy to craft, so those markets can be savage with very low margins when there is competition.

It's important not to take these things personally. There are toxic things that can happen, but what you've described is pretty normal. Understand that the only set value of an item is its sale price to NPC merchants. The worst sellers are the ones with very inflexible ideas about what items are worth and become salty when fluctuates in demand don't favor them. Price is mostly dictated by scarcity, not opinion.

ChimpyChumpy · May 2020

Thanks, it was just weird to me that prices were pretty consistent, then all of sudden shot up now shooting down again. Not really considering this as toxic behaviour just trying to figure out what I could do without being considered toxic myself. I want gold for motifs and stuff is languishing in the guild store for days. Don't want to cause issues just dumping at 1k cheaper than anyone else. Really though, my amount would be a pittance to what some of the folks are pushing but still. I suspect my own guild mates will buy the mats up.

For a while I was so focused on maxing out CP, then alts, that I wasn't paying attention to prices and one day everything was 2.5k more expensive, now tanking. I'm guessing the game "events" had an impact.

zyk · May 2020

The only thing I really consider toxic at a listing level is when someone attempts to grief a competitor or control a market by intentionally selling a steady supply of items at a loss to crush the competition. This typically happens with trait research items. It's extremely difficult to prove.

Some guilds have pricing rules, but I think they're silly because sellers don't decide what buyers are willing to pay. You should feel free to sell items for however low a price you feel comfortable with. There's nothing wrong with pricing an item low to sell it quickly.

And yes, any event with loot boxes will significantly affect the market price of the items dropped.

Nestor · May 2020

ChimpyChumpy wrote: »

Thanks, it was just weird to me that prices were pretty consistent, then all of sudden shot up now shooting down again.

Anytime there are new Meta Sets, like New Moon Acolyte or a major Balance Change, Gold Mats are going to go up in Price. Once the meta chasing peeps have made their new gear on all their Alts, then mat prices float back down. This is normal market behavior. Happens about 4 times a year in fact, around every major patch.

Here is another thing to think about, what are you needing to make the gold for? For the goal of making Gold? For most people who have a need for gold for the game, they either need to make or buy gear, or do PvP and need Pots or Housing. Most other game play is pretty low pressure with Gold Needs. Just some thoughts to keep the Gold Chase in perspective.

ChimpyChumpy · May 2020

zyk wrote: »

The only thing I really consider toxic at a listing level is when someone attempts to grief a competitor or control a market by intentionally selling a steady supply of items at a loss to crush the competition. This typically happens with trait research items. It's extremely difficult to prove.

Some guilds have pricing rules, but I think they're silly because sellers don't decide what buyers are willing to pay. You should feel free to sell items for however low a price you feel comfortable with. There's nothing wrong with pricing an item low to sell it quickly.

And yes, any event with loot boxes will significantly affect the market price of the items dropped.

I honestly think this is what's happening in one of my guilds, guy sells millions a week in nirnhoned weapons at 5-8k under average, making it impossible for folks like me to sell them. Still no idea where he got all the nirncrux, must have bought them at crazy low prices, farmed for ages or just makes 1k profit per weapon.

Nestor · May 2020

ChimpyChumpy wrote: »

I honestly think this is what's happening in one of my guilds, guy sells millions a week in nirnhoned weapons at 5-8k under average, making it impossible for folks like me to sell them. Still no idea where he got all the nirncrux, must have bought them at crazy low prices, farmed for ages or just makes 1k profit per weapon.

Probably does PvP on multiple characters, only opens one RoTW box per day per Alt and Transmutes gear into Nirn Trait and decons it for the Crux. There is always a way to Farm something.

1K per commodity operation is high, especially when there is not much effort in making the product. Playing the commodity market is a way to earn a steady stream of gold. You want to amass a ton of gold, you have to play the market. Which means going shopping for wholesale pricing, and flipping for retail.

ChimpyChumpy · May 2020

Thanks nestor for the insight! Good to know, got a lo to learn about trading.

zyk · May 2020

ChimpyChumpy wrote: »

I honestly think this is what's happening in one of my guilds, guy sells millions a week in nirnhoned weapons at 5-8k under average, making it impossible for folks like me to sell them. Still no idea where he got all the nirncrux, must have bought them at crazy low prices, farmed for ages or just makes 1k profit per weapon.

You can't presume he's being malicious without evidence. When I sold trait research items, I was able to sell below the costs of my competitors because I bought nirncrux in bulk from hardcore harvesters.

Perhaps this guy does the same or perhaps he's a hardcore harvester who would rather sell directly to customers or perhaps earning 500g per sale is worth it to him. Without evidence, you can't know, so either compete with him, be content with being the 2nd option or move on to something that makes more sense. It's pointless to speculate. If you trade a lot, this kind of thing will happen all the time.

LadySinflower · May 2020

ChimpyChumpy wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

The only thing I really consider toxic at a listing level is when someone attempts to grief a competitor or control a market by intentionally selling a steady supply of items at a loss to crush the competition. This typically happens with trait research items. It's extremely difficult to prove.

Some guilds have pricing rules, but I think they're silly because sellers don't decide what buyers are willing to pay. You should feel free to sell items for however low a price you feel comfortable with. There's nothing wrong with pricing an item low to sell it quickly.

And yes, any event with loot boxes will significantly affect the market price of the items dropped.

I honestly think this is what's happening in one of my guilds, guy sells millions a week in nirnhoned weapons at 5-8k under average, making it impossible for folks like me to sell them. Still no idea where he got all the nirncrux, must have bought them at crazy low prices, farmed for ages or just makes 1k profit per weapon.

He's probably the guy you see every day in zone chat spamming "WTB potent nirncrux for <insert ridiculously low price here>. COD any amount!"

Noobs send it because they don't know any better, and there are people so desperate for a little bit of gold that they don't care. I sent some mundane runes to such a spammer once in my nooby days. At the time, I wasn't using them and they were piling up in my inventory, and I had no gold. I couldn't afford dues in a trading guild yet and didn't have the slightest idea what a fair price should be. So yeah, there will always be people who fall for it for various reasons despite the 20 other guys in chat calling him out for being a scammer and a rip-off. And the a-hole then makes his nirnhoned weapons and sells them at half price, screwing over the honest guys who also need to make some gold.

JKorr · May 2020

I will always wonder why people seem to automatically assume they need to pay dues to belong to a trading guild. There are good trading guilds out there with no dues or mandatory sales requirements. Even some social focused groups will get traders. You won't be making a gazillion gold a day, but you also don't pay 9 billion dues a week....

Iarao · May 2020

LadySinflower wrote: »

ChimpyChumpy wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

The only thing I really consider toxic at a listing level is when someone attempts to grief a competitor or control a market by intentionally selling a steady supply of items at a loss to crush the competition. This typically happens with trait research items. It's extremely difficult to prove.

Some guilds have pricing rules, but I think they're silly because sellers don't decide what buyers are willing to pay. You should feel free to sell items for however low a price you feel comfortable with. There's nothing wrong with pricing an item low to sell it quickly.

And yes, any event with loot boxes will significantly affect the market price of the items dropped.

I honestly think this is what's happening in one of my guilds, guy sells millions a week in nirnhoned weapons at 5-8k under average, making it impossible for folks like me to sell them. Still no idea where he got all the nirncrux, must have bought them at crazy low prices, farmed for ages or just makes 1k profit per weapon.

He's probably the guy you see every day in zone chat spamming "WTB potent nirncrux for <insert ridiculously low price here>. COD any amount!"

Noobs send it because they don't know any better, and there are people so desperate for a little bit of gold that they don't care. I sent some mundane runes to such a spammer once in my nooby days. At the time, I wasn't using them and they were piling up in my inventory, and I had no gold. I couldn't afford dues in a trading guild yet and didn't have the slightest idea what a fair price should be. So yeah, there will always be people who fall for it for various reasons despite the 20 other guys in chat calling him out for being a scammer and a rip-off. And the a-hole then makes his nirnhoned weapons and sells them at half price, screwing over the honest guys who also need to make some gold.

i'm one of the caller outerers when i see it. and noobs dont know that if the buyer returns the item, the noob is out the cod fee.

zyk · May 2020

In my experience, most of the people who policed prices in zone chat didn't realize when price fluctuations occurred or didn't consider that trader sales were taxed. When they disputed my buying prices, they were always uninformed.

The players who sold to me via zone chat were usually experienced players loaded with loot who didn't want to bother with traders at all because they didn't enjoy it. They are happy to find reliable buyers they can deal with directly.

Players are obsessed with constantly getting the best price without considering there is a cost to that which is time and energy.

Kwoung · May 2020

zyk wrote: »

In my experience, most of the people who policed prices in zone chat didn't realize when price fluctuations occurred or didn't consider that trader sales were taxed. When they disputed my buying prices, they were always uninformed.

The players who sold to me via zone chat were usually experienced players loaded with loot who didn't want to bother with traders at all because they didn't enjoy it. They are happy to find reliable buyers they can deal with directly.

Players are obsessed with constantly getting the best price without considering there is a cost to that which is time and energy.

I have found the same, some player ripping on someone in zone chat offering to buy at a lower price that they feel is normal. TTC doesn't necessarily show what an item is worth or what it can be bought at commonly enough. I have a similar post on my guilds WTB forum at fairly low prices. I let everyone know they can probably sell for more if they put the effort in and join a trade guild with a well placed vendor, but I can buy those items commonly enough at my prices, and I am willing to put the effort in to chase those deals down, so I am not willing to pay more.

So yes, while I agree that there are some people trying to buy at prices that I know are actually WAY too low of an offer, those are the exception to the rule. Most I see in zone chat are just trying to avoid the vendors and buy direct from the source, at what I consider a reasonable price, especially when you take sales tax, guild dues and everything else into consideration. Its a win win for everyone most of the time.

Kwoung · May 2020

Hmm, can't edit my post so... I also wanted to point out, that many of those people willing to sell at those prices do not have ESO+, so they just want to get rid of those items that are clogging up their inventory in little stacks asap and make any gold at the same time. There is quite a good chance, that the non-crafters, or even crafters who don't do that skill line, would simply delete them if someone didn't happen by and offer to buy them, regardless of price. Any gold is better than no gold.