Retiring from BGs

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino · February 2020

Been healing since launch, as well as since BG's debuted in Morrowind. I only ever really enjoyed BGs with friends (not premades!), like duo queues with Venzinni and a few others that don't play anymore. Now that you can't group in an MMO battleground, gonna start looking for small Cyrodiil / Imperial City no-cp groups, like 4-8 players. Really unfortunate Zenimax doesn't know how to actually balance; ie, just divide a single queue into solos/duos and tris/premades.

tl;dr, I rarely joined premades. I had much more fun coordinating with a friend in discord while healing, but have zero interest randos.

exeeter702 · February 2020

You can group in this mmo. This one particular peice of content just happens to be with random players, but a group nonetheless.

VaranisArano · February 2020

exeeter702 wrote: »

You can group in this mmo. This one particular peice of content just happens to be with random players, but a group nonetheless.

Ah, technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Also, missing the point, but I suspect you knew that. Seeing as how being grouped with random players is not remotely the same as having the ability to choose who to group with, especially when you used to have the ability to group with your friends.

precambria · February 2020

For healers being forced into a solo only queue is literally the worst thing, an unintended consequence of this will be a dying off of support players ;__: there is nothing in the world more upsetting than having to CHASE after kids to try and heal them but they still manage to go and die in vain.

I'm pretty close to quitting too but it's because my skills won't activate when I press them, there will be a group q eventually but this was a FAIL on zosses part

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino · February 2020

precambria wrote: »

For healers being forced into a solo only queue is literally the worst thing, an unintended consequence of this will be a dying off of support players ;__: there is nothing in the world more upsetting than having to CHASE after kids to try and heal them but they still manage to go and die in vain.

I'm pretty close to quitting too but it's because my skills won't activate when I press them, there will be a group q eventually but this was a FAIL on zosses part

100% agree with the healer part of your post. Trying to heal randos is like spinning your wheels, even if you play around a person and keep them alive, the other two idiots on your team will usually run off on their own and just die, even if you told them to stick together so they can receive your heals.

You'll be playing in center with one person on Ularra and see one of the tards on your team running around on the outskirts and then die. So frustrating, just not worth solo queueing as a healer imo. I mean, you really have to experience what it's like to coordinate with another competent player and hard carry your team in duos with him.

JWillCHS · February 2020

I fully understand where you all are coming from. I would duo with Ven too on magplars.

But I also solo queued in BGs as a healer myself occassionally and found success mainly because season BG players know who will keep them alive.

That type of coordination amongst solo players especially on Day 2 of the MMR reset is all over the place. If you have patience you might want to give it time.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino · February 2020

JWillCHS wrote: »

I fully understand where you all are coming from. I would duo with Ven too on magplars.

But I also solo queued in BGs as a healer myself occassionally and found success mainly because season BG players know who will keep them alive.

That type of coordination amongst solo players especially on Day 2 of the MMR reset is all over the place. If you have patience you might want to give it time.

I miss the guy man, he was so fun to play with. In voice coms, he was well coordinated and would always collapse back to me if I were getting focused in our high MMR matches. You only really get that sense of awareness if you've also played a healer yourself. I always played with him on his werewolf, so he was always faster than me lol. Here's one of our matches back in 2018, good times man.

I don't think I have the patience to heal randos in the MMR reset, which don't get me wrong, I love that it was reset; however, it's straight cancer to solo queue as a healer with low MMR players. A lot of them are PvErs who're just trying to get a daily done, and lets face it, the majority of the player base is PvE oriented. With group queues gone, more PvErs will be queueing for their daily. I don't have the patience to heal for them, so I'm retiring to coordinated groups in Cyro.

Battlegrounds are dead for me.

Neoealth · February 2020

Why didn't they just do 2 bg queues? So people who like to bg with friends can do so against other like minded pvpers. And those that like to join solo can do so without having to face premades.

Sorry if i missed this, don't frequent this section too often.

MaxJrFTW · February 2020

Good riddance! I had to play against you twice last week while playing my alts. You were on a magblade healer, and you won both games before each of the other two teams could even reach 100 points. While pug stomping is fun for you and your buddies, it isn't for the other 8 people in the game.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino · February 2020

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Good riddance! I had to play against you twice last week while playing my alts. You were on a magblade healer, and you won both games before each of the other two teams could even reach 100 points. While pug stomping is fun for you and your buddies, it isn't for the other 8 people in the game.

I took a long break and only recently came back about two weeks ago, I only play a magwarden healer and haven't really duoed in awhile. It may have been me, but I don't have a magblade, and I haven't done much duoing lately.

MaxJrFTW · February 2020

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Good riddance! I had to play against you twice last week while playing my alts. You were on a magblade healer, and you won both games before each of the other two teams could even reach 100 points. While pug stomping is fun for you and your buddies, it isn't for the other 8 people in the game.

I took a long break and only recently came back about two weeks ago, I only play a magwarden healer and haven't really duoed in awhile. It may have been me, but I don't have a magblade, and I haven't done much duoing lately.

Then you have a fan using the name Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino. Maybe i got the class confused, but there was definitely a magblade using refresh path.

Iskiab · February 2020

It’s not just healing, it’s all mag classes (except magsorc) have issues with solo queuing. A new player who doesn’t keep their health topped up will steal all your healing so you die more.

I’m used to it, you just have to keep at it and push to high MMR (when there will be one) to get away from them. As a mag it’s very easy to heal a new player for 2x their damage dealt, and for every new player on your team you’ll die maybe 3 more times then normal.

It’s also worth adding damage abilities to your bar. This is a game that takes a while to learn, everyone had that learning period. It’s just a result of how they designed mag healing, and there will be lots of games where you’ll struggle to keep your team up but if you just did damage instead you’d have done as much as all 3 of them combined.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino · February 2020

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Good riddance! I had to play against you twice last week while playing my alts. You were on a magblade healer, and you won both games before each of the other two teams could even reach 100 points. While pug stomping is fun for you and your buddies, it isn't for the other 8 people in the game.

I took a long break and only recently came back about two weeks ago, I only play a magwarden healer and haven't really duoed in awhile. It may have been me, but I don't have a magblade, and I haven't done much duoing lately.

Then you have a fan using the name Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino. Maybe i got the class confused, but there was definitely a magblade using refresh path.

Is this who you saw?

exeeter702 · February 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

You can group in this mmo. This one particular peice of content just happens to be with random players, but a group nonetheless.

Ah, technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Also, missing the point, but I suspect you knew that. Seeing as how being grouped with random players is not remotely the same as having the ability to choose who to group with, especially when you used to have the ability to group with your friends.

Not that I missed the point but where I come from, mmos were always about working together in an online world, not exclusively working with friends in an online world but even that skirts to close to being pedantic. Point is, there are numerous outlets for which people can play together with hand picked friends, both in pvp and pve. Bgs are a small peice of this games pie.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino · February 2020

exeeter702 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

You can group in this mmo. This one particular peice of content just happens to be with random players, but a group nonetheless.

Ah, technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Also, missing the point, but I suspect you knew that. Seeing as how being grouped with random players is not remotely the same as having the ability to choose who to group with, especially when you used to have the ability to group with your friends.

Not that I missed the point but where I come from, mmos were always about working together in an online world, not exclusively working with friends in an online world but even that skirts to close to being pedantic. Point is, there are numerous outlets for which people can play together with hand picked friends, both in pvp and pve. Bgs are a small peice of this games pie.

You're speaking very general and one dimensional because you don't know the bigger picture because you aren't "in", you haven't experienced the "in", if you will. If you're a casual PvPer, or a PvEer, you just can't understand really. People enjoy battlegrounds, but don't enjoy Cyrodiil or imperial city, and that's 100% okay. People have preferences There were entire guilds dedicated to battlegrounds, you'd have a community based guild with individual teams in them of 4-5 players per team. You all queue at once and if you all got a queue pop at the same time, you took it and would be facing each other in a coordinated 4v4v4. You can't do that anymore.

Now zooming out from that little "piece" as you say, what do you do now if you want to play with your friend that's, say, Daggerfall, and you're Ebonhart? Zenimax doesn't offer faction transfers for X, Y, and Z reasons, so you either have to reroll a new toon or find new friends.

There is only so much that the player should have to do to be able to play with friends before you have to look at the bigger picture. Zenimax's decisions are hurting the community, like this one, and the one where we can't faction transfer, or the one where they tease a PvP oriented house only to not offer any new PvP functionalities, like a guild war style house.

VaranisArano · February 2020

exeeter702 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

You can group in this mmo. This one particular peice of content just happens to be with random players, but a group nonetheless.

Ah, technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Also, missing the point, but I suspect you knew that. Seeing as how being grouped with random players is not remotely the same as having the ability to choose who to group with, especially when you used to have the ability to group with your friends.

Not that I missed the point but where I come from, mmos were always about working together in an online world, not exclusively working with friends in an online world but even that skirts to close to being pedantic. Point is, there are numerous outlets for which people can play together with hand picked friends, both in pvp and pve. Bgs are a small peice of this games pie.

Let me try to break it down in a less sarcastic way:

"I want to group with my friends in battlegrounds so we can play BGs together like we've always been able to."

"You can still group up with your friends in Cyrodiil, IC, overland, dungeons, and trials!"

"Well yes. That doesn't help when I want to play Battlegrounds with my friends, now does it?"

"Its just a small piece of the game."

"Yes. Its also a small piece of the game I happened to enjoy playing with my friends and now can't do so anymore."

Again, you are technically correct. Just not very helpful, since you keep trying to minimize the problem faced by a number of players: they don't want to play other content with their friends Instead of battlegrounds. They want to play Battlegrounds with their friends or guildmates and now can't.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino · February 2020

post removed lol

Karmen · February 2020

And soon there will be tons of new smallscales in cyrodiil...

idk · February 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

You can group in this mmo. This one particular peice of content just happens to be with random players, but a group nonetheless.

Ah, technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Also, missing the point, but I suspect you knew that. Seeing as how being grouped with random players is not remotely the same as having the ability to choose who to group with, especially when you used to have the ability to group with your friends.

This. There is a reason myself and many do not use the GF to form a dungeon group. We prefer to play with friends as an MMORPG is a design to do. We also like having control over the quality of players we group with after poor experiences in the GF. Zos' decision to force solo queueing for a group goes against the common sense that comes with running an MMORPG and lacks any shred of logic to support it.

exeeter702 · February 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

You can group in this mmo. This one particular peice of content just happens to be with random players, but a group nonetheless.

Ah, technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Also, missing the point, but I suspect you knew that. Seeing as how being grouped with random players is not remotely the same as having the ability to choose who to group with, especially when you used to have the ability to group with your friends.

Not that I missed the point but where I come from, mmos were always about working together in an online world, not exclusively working with friends in an online world but even that skirts to close to being pedantic. Point is, there are numerous outlets for which people can play together with hand picked friends, both in pvp and pve. Bgs are a small peice of this games pie.

Let me try to break it down in a less sarcastic way:

"I want to group with my friends in battlegrounds so we can play BGs together like we've always been able to."

"You can still group up with your friends in Cyrodiil, IC, overland, dungeons, and trials!"

"Well yes. That doesn't help when I want to play Battlegrounds with my friends, now does it?"

"Its just a small piece of the game."

"Yes. Its also a small piece of the game I happened to enjoy playing with my friends and now can't do so anymore."

Again, you are technically correct. Just not very helpful, since you keep trying to minimize the problem faced by a number of players: they don't want to play other content with their friends Instead of battlegrounds. They want to play Battlegrounds with their friends or guildmates and now can't.

Ok I need to be clear here, I dont have a dog in this race, I'm fully aware of the people that are negatively effected by the solo queue change, I'm simply clarifying that I believe people on the "I cant group with my friends in an mmo!" are leaning kn the sensational side. Zos chose (possibly temporarily) the lesser of 2 evils in their eyes and the compromise is that for one aspect of the game, friends are unable to play in the same group.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

You can group in this mmo. This one particular peice of content just happens to be with random players, but a group nonetheless.

Ah, technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Also, missing the point, but I suspect you knew that. Seeing as how being grouped with random players is not remotely the same as having the ability to choose who to group with, especially when you used to have the ability to group with your friends.

Not that I missed the point but where I come from, mmos were always about working together in an online world, not exclusively working with friends in an online world but even that skirts to close to being pedantic. Point is, there are numerous outlets for which people can play together with hand picked friends, both in pvp and pve. Bgs are a small peice of this games pie.

You're speaking very general and one dimensional because you don't know the bigger picture because you aren't "in", you haven't experienced the "in", if you will. If you're a casual PvPer, or a PvEer, you just can't understand really. People enjoy battlegrounds, but don't enjoy Cyrodiil or imperial city, and that's 100% okay. People have preferences There were entire guilds dedicated to battlegrounds, you'd have a community based guild with individual teams in them of 4-5 players per team. You all queue at once and if you all got a queue pop at the same time, you took it and would be facing each other in a coordinated 4v4v4. You can't do that anymore.

Now zooming out from that little "piece" as you say, what do you do now if you want to play with your friend that's, say, Daggerfall, and you're Ebonhart? Zenimax doesn't offer faction transfers for X, Y, and Z reasons, so you either have to reroll a new toon or find new friends.

There is only so much that the player should have to do to be able to play with friends before you have to look at the bigger picture. Zenimax's decisions are hurting the community, like this one, and the one where we can't faction transfer, or the one where they tease a PvP oriented house only to not offer any new PvP functionalities, like a guild war style house.

I know full well this picture guy, better than many actually. In fact I look at this entirely from an unbiased perspective considering my opinions of the content in question. You should direct the casual labels and assumptions elsewhere. I've already said countless times that zos should have opted for a system for premades to generate custom lobbies so bg guilds werent hurt with this change. My view is from hundreds of hours doing only BGs since they released in morrowind and being entirely pragmatic about the recent changes.

Duos were collateral damage with this change that many feel is for the greater good of enjoyable BG matches.

exeeter702 · February 2020

I want to also just mention that there are many on these forums and in game who are happy with the solo queue change to bgs and the frequent message I see here is that these players satisfaction and approval with said change should be completely invalidated because this is an mmo.

Commandment · February 2020

exeeter702 wrote: »

I want to also just mention that there are many on these forums and in game who are happy with the solo queue change to bgs and the frequent message I see here is that these players satisfaction and approval with said change should be completely invalidated because this is an mmo.

Because mainly the sensitive people come here when they lose a BG and cry how everything is against them, and how things that could be a false-positive is out to get them like premades.

But now that, they actually messed up something people actually loved, now people who have actual concerns of the game come in.

I told people about it in game, and most of them didnt even know this was going to happen because not everyone reads patch notes. Most people are angry at the change. Now you compare a SOLO, to a COUPLE, or a GROUP, you have more couples and groups who are unhappy.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino · February 2020

Commandment wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

I want to also just mention that there are many on these forums and in game who are happy with the solo queue change to bgs and the frequent message I see here is that these players satisfaction and approval with said change should be completely invalidated because this is an mmo.

Because mainly the sensitive people come here when they lose a BG and cry how everything is against them, and how things that could be a false-positive is out to get them like premades.

But now that, they actually messed up something people actually loved, now people who have actual concerns of the game come in.

I told people about it in game, and most of them didnt even know this was going to happen because not everyone reads patch notes. Most people are angry at the change. Now you compare a SOLO, to a COUPLE, or a GROUP, you have more couples and groups who are unhappy.

This

exeeter702 · February 2020

Commandment wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

I want to also just mention that there are many on these forums and in game who are happy with the solo queue change to bgs and the frequent message I see here is that these players satisfaction and approval with said change should be completely invalidated because this is an mmo.

Because mainly the sensitive people come here when they lose a BG and cry how everything is against them, and how things that could be a false-positive is out to get them like premades.

But now that, they actually messed up something people actually loved, now people who have actual concerns of the game come in.

I told people about it in game, and most of them didnt even know this was going to happen because not everyone reads patch notes. Most people are angry at the change. Now you compare a SOLO, to a COUPLE, or a GROUP, you have more couples and groups who are unhappy.

And I'm the one getting thrown generalizations..... sure thing.

james_738pub18_ESO · February 2020

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Good riddance! I had to play against you twice last week while playing my alts. You were on a magblade healer, and you won both games before each of the other two teams could even reach 100 points. While pug stomping is fun for you and your buddies, it isn't for the other 8 people in the game.

Games get ruined when the devs start catering to less skilled players whining the game is too hard. The real way to fix is this is to just get good... I've played many bgs as a solo que and pretty much won the match myself.

Wargaard · February 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

You can group in this mmo. This one particular peice of content just happens to be with random players, but a group nonetheless.

Ah, technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Also, missing the point, but I suspect you knew that. Seeing as how being grouped with random players is not remotely the same as having the ability to choose who to group with, especially when you used to have the ability to group with your friends.

Not that I missed the point but where I come from, mmos were always about working together in an online world, not exclusively working with friends in an online world but even that skirts to close to being pedantic. Point is, there are numerous outlets for which people can play together with hand picked friends, both in pvp and pve. Bgs are a small peice of this games pie.

Let me try to break it down in a less sarcastic way:

"I want to group with my friends in battlegrounds so we can play BGs together like we've always been able to."

"You can still group up with your friends in Cyrodiil, IC, overland, dungeons, and trials!"

"Well yes. That doesn't help when I want to play Battlegrounds with my friends, now does it?"

"Its just a small piece of the game."

"Yes. Its also a small piece of the game I happened to enjoy playing with my friends and now can't do so anymore."

Again, you are technically correct. Just not very helpful, since you keep trying to minimize the problem faced by a number of players: they don't want to play other content with their friends Instead of battlegrounds. They want to play Battlegrounds with their friends or guildmates and now can't.

This.

Decided to expand to actually give a view different to this side of the "argument".

A lot of the time, when queued with mates in BG's, we're not there to sweaty win. Half the time we random queue and ignore the flag captures or whatever as secondary. We're there to PvP and have fun with each other, and teabag the mate that died in the fight. We're there to do the one thing everyone plays an MMO for... to have fun with our friends.

Beardimus · February 2020

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

Been healing since launch, as well as since BG's debuted in Morrowind. I only ever really enjoyed BGs with friends (not premades!), like duo queues with Venzinni and a few others that don't play anymore. Now that you can't group in an MMO battleground, gonna start looking for small Cyrodiil / Imperial City no-cp groups, like 4-8 players. Really unfortunate Zenimax doesn't know how to actually balance; ie, just divide a single queue into solos/duos and tris/premades.

tl;dr, I rarely joined premades. I had much more fun coordinating with a friend in discord while healing, but have zero interest randos.

To be fair you make a great point. I'm annoyed they haven't given us a choice or a premade queue or leaderboard as a DD and for training guildies etc but as a support class this ruins it totally. And they had done an ok job at healers and even tanks (relic/chaosball) had a role.

Cinbri · February 2020

Deathmatch became just a sorc tanks stealing kills. Don't even need to deal damage, just stay on range spamming execute to get autokills and sreak away..
Who would have guessed it will be like this...

ZOS_Ragnar · February 2020

We have closed this thread as there is already an active discussion on this topic here. Feel free to continue this discussion there.