Logged on to play BGs with my bf like we have done for years. I cannot believe this has gone live

valkyrie93 · February 2020

I thought this was an MMO?

This is a team based game mode, no? So why can't people play in organised coordinated teams and win accordingly based on who played the best as a TEAM?

I played BGs in a duo and even I hated when 4 man premades wiped the floor but I accept that it's a team based game mode. You accept it and queue again, they're only 15 minute matches. To completely remove the choice of playing with your friends in an MMO... no more co op over discord. no more celebrating together when we won. You know in other games like Rocket League for example, if you play well with a random you can message them and party up for a few matches? Nope, can't even do that anymore. You can just hope to see them again and maybe be on the same team with a lot of luck. You could add them as a friend but maybe you don't want a longer term contact like that, you just want to party up for a bit because you work well together. Not possible.

We could queue separately but then potentially be put in different teams. What's the point? This was a fun, social activity and now every time I want to play BGs I might as well listen to music in the background and play by myself... wait, that's the only option now. I did that sometimes but forgive me for wanting a choice to play with friends in an MMO.

At least let maybe 2 players queue together and remove 4 man queueing if people hate it that much. This is so extreme.

Why even have teams any more then? Why isn't it just 12 people fighting everyone 1v1 style?

And no, Cyrodiil isn't a viable alternative, it isn't the same. I've spent thousands of hours there and BG is something completely different - fast paced, small scale group pvp, short matches, if you played either you know one cannot replace the other.

If this isn't changed back this is the last straw for me. I love this game so much and have 4k hours clocked but updates like this really make me question if it's worth it anymore.

drakthir · February 2020

They will probably bring out a premade queue so you can just queue there.
Until then you're solo or Cyro

Belyar · February 2020

I agree with everything you just said.

Aedrion · February 2020

Of all the hallmarks of incompetence, this conscious, intended design choice to me permanently labels Zo$ as an objectively bad developer.

There was always some doubt that they might've had a plan, or a direction or that somebody with some qualifications was in charge who knew things we didn't.
After this, there is no doubt that they're just a bunch of clueless people, handling a game they don't understand in any way.

We'd be better off if the sold it to another company, at this point.

Kel · February 2020

You're still on a team. It's still a team based mode of play.
You just get random teammates.

🤷‍♂️

valkyrie93 · February 2020

Kel wrote: »

You're still on a team. It's still a team based mode of play.
You just get random teammates.

🤷‍♂️

I’ll just delete my whole friends list then. Honestly can’t believe I’m trying to justify why this should be an option

valkyrie93 · February 2020

Aedrion wrote: »

Of all the hallmarks of incompetence, this conscious, intended design choice to me permanently labels Zo$ as an objectively bad developer.

There was always some doubt that they might've had a plan, or a direction or that somebody with some qualifications was in charge who knew things we didn't.
After this, there is no doubt that they're just a bunch of clueless people, handling a game they don't understand in any way.

We'd be better off if the sold it to another company, at this point.

I wish I didn’t agree with you right now

Kel · February 2020

valkyrie93 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

You're still on a team. It's still a team based mode of play.
You just get random teammates.

🤷‍♂️

I’ll just delete my whole friends list then. Honestly can’t believe I’m trying to justify why this should be an option

Never said separate queues shouldn't be an option.
Your main complaint was about team play.
In that aspect, nothing has changed except the ability to synergize and pug stop other teams by picking your own teammates. You're still playing a team game, though.

I don't think any sane individual would be against two queues.

You wanna see who plays best "as a team"?
This is the fairest way to do that.

valkyrie93 · February 2020

Kel wrote: »

valkyrie93 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

You're still on a team. It's still a team based mode of play.
You just get random teammates.

🤷‍♂️

I’ll just delete my whole friends list then. Honestly can’t believe I’m trying to justify why this should be an option

Never said separate queues shouldn't be an option.
Your main complaint was about team play.
In that aspect, nothing has changed except the ability to synergize and pug stop other teams. You're still playing a team game, though.

No, my main complaint is that I can’t choose who I team up with anymore. That’s obviously the issue here, I‘m well aware I’ll still be put in a random team with no chance of coordination/voice comms. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. I’m still in shock

Kidgangster101 · February 2020

Kel wrote: »

You're still on a team. It's still a team based mode of play.
You just get random teammates.

🤷‍♂️

Lol yep sure...... A team of randoms not friends. A team where most people won't say hi. A team where a teammate tells you to f off because you ask them to stay together. A team that doesn't work in any capacity in a team based mode. Even 1 person not staying with their team can make a 15 minute quick question game mode into a bad experience because they run in like it's call of duty or Rambo and die 15 times a match just feeding the other team.......

But yep that is "team play" and "fun" for everyone involved right?

valkyrie93 · February 2020

Kel wrote: »

valkyrie93 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

You're still on a team. It's still a team based mode of play.
You just get random teammates.

🤷‍♂️

I’ll just delete my whole friends list then. Honestly can’t believe I’m trying to justify why this should be an option

Never said separate queues shouldn't be an option.
Your main complaint was about team play.
In that aspect, nothing has changed except the ability to synergize and pug stop other teams by picking your own teammates. You're still playing a team game, though.

I don't think any sane individual would be against two queues.

You wanna see who plays best "as a team"?
This is the fairest way to do that.

I wouldn’t be against two queues. I’m pissed that there isn’t an option. We have no choice but to queue solo.

xeNNNNN · February 2020

They should of just done the following.

Team Queue that prioritised 3-4 man premades but allowed pugs to join if they wished by selecting an option in the group finder or something.

Duo queue that prevented Premade 3-4 man teams from joining to balance out matches.

Solo queue that prevented Premade 3-4 man teams & duos from queuing up against solo players to balance it out.

That is all they needed to do.

Too hell with their metrics.... "but our player count isn't high enough for that in battlegrounds...." maybe stop pandering to specific metric data that is conveniently giving you an excuse to be lazy and actually provide an open service that benefits all and doesn't lock out 90% of the players from having fun.

I would much rather wait 15 minutes because we have divided queues but balanced matches than get rolf-stomped by the same 4 man premade every 10 minutes. Let people queue up as solo, duo or 3 man team + 1 pug and 4 man teams. Let people play with whomever and however many they want just place restrictions the queue so that Teams cant destroy solos and duos and then so duos cant destroy solos either....literally every other game out there does this...why on earth it doesn't happen here is beyond me.

Lazy solution to a very clear problem that had a very clear answer to it that was ignored. Rediculous.

Kel · February 2020

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

You're still on a team. It's still a team based mode of play.
You just get random teammates.

🤷‍♂️

Lol yep sure...... A team of randoms not friends. A team where most people won't say hi. A team where a teammate tells you to f off because you ask them to stay together. A team that doesn't work in any capacity in a team based mode. Even 1 person not staying with their team can make a 15 minute quick question game mode into a bad experience because they run in like it's call of duty or Rambo and die 15 times a match just feeding the other team.......

But yep that is "team play" and "fun" for everyone involved right?

At least that's for every team...not just yours alone.
So yes, it is the fairest outcome possible.
🤷‍♂️

valkyrie93 · February 2020

I would really rather have 1v1 with 12 people going at it than this, zos why don’t you implement that please it actually sounds fun. Scrap teams all together mlmao

Kel · February 2020

valkyrie93 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

valkyrie93 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

You're still on a team. It's still a team based mode of play.
You just get random teammates.

🤷‍♂️

I’ll just delete my whole friends list then. Honestly can’t believe I’m trying to justify why this should be an option

Never said separate queues shouldn't be an option.
Your main complaint was about team play.
In that aspect, nothing has changed except the ability to synergize and pug stop other teams by picking your own teammates. You're still playing a team game, though.

I don't think any sane individual would be against two queues.

You wanna see who plays best "as a team"?
This is the fairest way to do that.

I wouldn’t be against two queues. I’m pissed that there isn’t an option. We have no choice but to queue solo.

I agree with you. Fully.

Mjoellnir · February 2020

I can just totally agree with you. If i wanted to play something just by myself i'd play a singleplayer game...
And I'm not too sure if this widens the skill gap even more too. I mean it's obvious that a 4-man-group of good players could really destroy a round, no need denying that. But a single good player against a coordinated group of not-so-good players had at least a challenge and could not as easily dominate a round as it is possible now when fighting against other single players... Pretty sure you all know about how often PUGs work together well

karekiz · February 2020

valkyrie93 wrote: »

If this isn't changed back this is the last straw for me. I love this game so much and have 4k hours clocked but updates like this really make me question if it's worth it anymore.

Push for 8 v 8 to be the new BG system. That would fix it all. You can que as 1/2/3/4, but not a team of 8.

valkyrie93 · February 2020

Mjoellnir wrote: »

I can just totally agree with you. If i wanted to play something just by myself i'd play a singleplayer game...
And I'm not too sure if this widens the skill gap even more too. I mean it's obvious that a 4-man-group of good players could really destroy a round, no need denying that. But a single good player against a coordinated group of not-so-good players had at least a challenge and could not as easily dominate a round as it is possible now when fighting against other single players... Pretty sure you all know about how often PUGs work together well

Yeah that’s a good point. Now you could have one pro player killing everyone in their uncoordinated random PUGs. Not sure what people want to magically change, sure there will be less 4 man premade but there will always be people dominating rounds in some way. Uncoordinated pugs with average or beginner players can be a recipe for disaster and not fun at all. I think this change was way too extreme

valkyrie93 · February 2020

karekiz wrote: »

valkyrie93 wrote: »

If this isn't changed back this is the last straw for me. I love this game so much and have 4k hours clocked but updates like this really make me question if it's worth it anymore.

Push for 8 v 8 to be the new BG system. That would fix it all. You can que as 1/2/3/4, but not a team of 8.

I would be ok with this

Stebarnz · February 2020

have 2 q's see which is more popular.

Kidgangster101 · February 2020

Kel wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

You're still on a team. It's still a team based mode of play.
You just get random teammates.

🤷‍♂️

Lol yep sure...... A team of randoms not friends. A team where most people won't say hi. A team where a teammate tells you to f off because you ask them to stay together. A team that doesn't work in any capacity in a team based mode. Even 1 person not staying with their team can make a 15 minute quick question game mode into a bad experience because they run in like it's call of duty or Rambo and die 15 times a match just feeding the other team.......

But yep that is "team play" and "fun" for everyone involved right?

At least that's for every team...not just yours alone.
So yes, it is the fairest outcome possible.
🤷‍♂️

Yep fairest outcome is to support the "solo" player in a MMO lol. I should just log in and go comando giving other teams free wins........ But yeah I would actually rather not even log in than to ruin the BG experience for everyone on my team. Lol the fairest outcome would be zos to say.......

You got a keyboard/mic/discord why not communicate it is 2020 we have the technology!

idk · February 2020

Kel wrote: »

valkyrie93 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

You're still on a team. It's still a team based mode of play.
You just get random teammates.

🤷‍♂️

I’ll just delete my whole friends list then. Honestly can’t believe I’m trying to justify why this should be an option

Never said separate queues shouldn't be an option.
Your main complaint was about team play.
In that aspect, nothing has changed except the ability to synergize and pug stop other teams by picking your own teammates. You're still playing a team game, though.

I don't think any sane individual would be against two queues.

You wanna see who plays best "as a team"?
This is the fairest way to do that.

You did make it sound like the solo queues were fabulous and that OP has no reason to complain. Yea, you did not say that but it was very much implied.

maxjapank · February 2020

valkyrie93 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

valkyrie93 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

You're still on a team. It's still a team based mode of play.
You just get random teammates.

🤷‍♂️

I’ll just delete my whole friends list then. Honestly can’t believe I’m trying to justify why this should be an option

Never said separate queues shouldn't be an option.
Your main complaint was about team play.
In that aspect, nothing has changed except the ability to synergize and pug stop other teams by picking your own teammates. You're still playing a team game, though.

I don't think any sane individual would be against two queues.

You wanna see who plays best "as a team"?
This is the fairest way to do that.

I wouldn’t be against two queues. I’m pissed that there isn’t an option. We have no choice but to queue solo.

I think everyone would support two queues. Those of us who preferred solo que until now were pissed that we had to play against pre-made groups. When we expressed our frustration, players who enjoyed grouping with friends didn't care at all. They would just tell us to find people to group with.

Personally, I enjoy the solo que games. Just as I've always enjoyed pugging in dungeons. There is also Cyrodiil for the time being, where you can group with your friends.

I'm not taking a bite of of you, though. I fully support having a que for people who want to group with friends. I just want one where only solo players get grouped together. And I don't want people to criticize players who enjoy solo que.

zvavi · February 2020

Main problem with queue for groups is that u wont be able to queue as a group of 3 (for obvious reasons). I think that the decision to remove premade queue, in mmo, was silly... I won't be surprised if the amount that queue for bg daily will drop because of it. And if it did, then it was a horrible decision.

Casterial · February 2020

This is Elder Scrolls Solo, don't you know? You didn't pick up Elder Scrolls Online

RiskyChalice863 · February 2020

There’s no way to please everyone. There are four options:

1. A single queue that includes groups and solo players.

This is what we had before. This is very much not fun for solo players being stomped by pre-made groups.

2. A single queue that only includes solo players.

This is what we have now. People who want to play in groups will be upset.

3. A single queue that only includes groups.

This is pretty untenable since you wouldn’t be able to play solo at all. No one would suggest this.

4. Two different queues—one for groups and one for solo players

In theory, this is the best option. But if the player population playing BGs isn’t very high, then this could easily result in really long wait times for games, people being put in games where their ping is super high, or both. People would complain about this.

Casterial · February 2020

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

There’s no way to please everyone. There are four options:

1. A single queue that includes groups and solo players.

This is what we had before. This is very much not fun for solo players being stomped by pre-made groups.

2. A single queue that only includes solo players.

This is what we have now. People who want to play in groups will be upset.

3. A single queue that only includes groups.

This is pretty untenable since you wouldn’t be able to play solo at all. No one would suggest this.

4. Two different queues—one for groups and one for solo players

In theory, this is the best option. But if the player population playing BGs isn’t very high, then this could easily result in really long wait times for games, people being put in games where their ping is super high, or both. People would complain about this.

There was one good option.

Group queues will only queue against group of same size.
You have 2 queue up, the other teams both have to have a party of 2 on their team. The others could be random. You have 3, you only que against other teams with and 1 is randomly placed into this for each team.

Your que take x minutes until it finds a same size group. No matter if it takes hours, it will eventually find a same size group.

Your "4 ways" are all very bad in a sense of saying separate the small PVP playerbase more. Look at WoW BG system, premades only go against premades and trinkle in 1 or 2 to fill the empty slots. If you queue with 2, the other team has a party of 2 to. It matches very well.

Bethesda is multi-billion dollar company, no excuses on not making better tech.

Mr_Walker · February 2020

I have sympathy for those who queued up occasionally with a buddy, but those who queued up as a cheese team to pugstomp, it would appear you are the architects of your own misfortune.

On the other hand, look upon it as a mark of how succesful you were at screwing up other folks game time.

jircris11 · February 2020

valkyrie93 wrote: »

I thought this was an MMO?

This is a team based game mode, no? So why can't people play in organised coordinated teams and win accordingly based on who played the best as a TEAM?

I played BGs in a duo and even I hated when 4 man premades wiped the floor but I accept that it's a team based game mode. You accept it and queue again, they're only 15 minute matches. To completely remove the choice of playing with your friends in an MMO... no more co op over discord. no more celebrating together when we won. You know in other games like Rocket League for example, if you play well with a random you can message them and party up for a few matches? Nope, can't even do that anymore. You can just hope to see them again and maybe be on the same team with a lot of luck. You could add them as a friend but maybe you don't want a longer term contact like that, you just want to party up for a bit because you work well together. Not possible.

We could queue separately but then potentially be put in different teams. What's the point? This was a fun, social activity and now every time I want to play BGs I might as well listen to music in the background and play by myself... wait, that's the only option now. I did that sometimes but forgive me for wanting a choice to play with friends in an MMO.

At least let maybe 2 players queue together and remove 4 man queueing if people hate it that much. This is so extreme.

Why even have teams any more then? Why isn't it just 12 people fighting everyone 1v1 style?

And no, Cyrodiil isn't a viable alternative, it isn't the same. I've spent thousands of hours there and BG is something completely different - fast paced, small scale group pvp, short matches, if you played either you know one cannot replace the other.

If this isn't changed back this is the last straw for me. I love this game so much and have 4k hours clocked but updates like this really make me question if it's worth it anymore.

Blame ppl who complained about premades.

Alomar · February 2020

Honestly this is ZOS we're talking about, when it comes to design decisions relating to pvp this level of incompetence is hardly surprising. It's like fool pvpers once...shame on ZOS...fool pvpers 736 times shame on pvpers for still supporting a company that treats you like a 5th class costumer.

Nomadic_Atmoran · February 2020

Theres no denying that they should have designed a Premade Queue in unison with this change and rolled it out together. But they most definitely needed to make changes so solo queuing players werent utterly smashed by premades.

It does seem that the company lacks any foresight and the management of the game has definitely taken a turn for the worst in the last year.