about toxicity and elitism

Zatox · February 2020

Alpheu5 wrote: »

There's an addon called Untaunted.

Sometimes you port into your first dungeon after a new patch and it bugs out. Nearly half your screen is filled with dummy opaque health bars and you need to reload the addon to remove them.

If that's a kickable offense for you then you shouldn't be running actual random dungeons, period.

Your addons - is your own pain and responsibility. If one of them doesnt work properly - uninstall it.
And yes, wasting time of the other players is a kickable offense. But snitching on the forum about toxic group is even worse.

Im running random dungeons a lot, but usually i have good fast group. Otherwise we kick weak or slow player.

Edziu · February 2020

Aznarb wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Karmen wrote: »

Sometimes you're queuing for a dungeon during 40min. And when finally you find one, when you arrive someone is saying "i need to adjust things please wait".
Do you see what I mean ?

look at #7 comment please, this is mostly thing about adjusting addon/something just when entering to instance and which I also described later

and if it was not enough clear from screen....this adjust didnt even took me an full 1 minute so...idk if I see what you mean here

Doesn't change the fact you should have do it before queuing.
It's just respect to not wast time of 3 other people for futility.

Do they need to kick you for that ? Probably not, but they have the right to do it. Nothing to do with them being toxic or elitist (nice clic bait I guess), here, it's only your fault.
But I guess it's always easier to blame other instead of yourself.

Like @Karmen said, DPS have already very long queue time, ofc they don't want to wait even more when they get in.

once again

how it is hard to understand/read with understand "you dont see everything before you get into dung"
some thing you wont notice you needed to change before you wont enter tot his called content for which addon/option was designed

timestamp not clear? this was not even full minute

and again
because of how long dps queue is for dung, I see you understand atleast this very good...I just accepted ready check to dung ASAP just and moment of moment after I noticed I have addon to adjust so again....I had no time to adjust it before because whne I have noticed I have this to adjust which was not even to long...this was fast unless waiting up to 1 min is enough to long for you, then I think you will be so problematic for many others even if they inform you before as they got suddenly something more important which wont take long

Haquor · February 2020

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

I don't really see this as being toxic or elitists. Just people who'd rather wait for a new queue player to join than your load screen. Best to just move on.

How is waiting for a new player in the q to pop and then load the entire dungeon any quicker than waiting for a player currently in group and in the dungeon to adjust an addon?

Unless they enjoy waiting more than playing then thier stupidity just *** themselves around.

Unless there is more to the story before the screenshot ofc.

Blinkin8r · February 2020

Dude, us hardcore console players don't need addons to run FG1. In the words of the elite, "Git gud scrub."

Edziu · February 2020

Zatox wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

There's an addon called Untaunted.

Sometimes you port into your first dungeon after a new patch and it bugs out. Nearly half your screen is filled with dummy opaque health bars and you need to reload the addon to remove them.

If that's a kickable offense for you then you shouldn't be running actual random dungeons, period.

Your addons - is your own pain and responsibility. If one of them doesnt work properly - uninstall it.
And yes, wasting time of the other players is a kickable offense. But snitching on the forum about toxic group is even worse.

Im running random dungeons a lot, but usually i have good fast group. Otherwise we kick weak or slow player.

abount wasting time even so short being so big offense...then I will go with your logic and say:

to low dps in dung is also waste fo time for others in group...because for sake everything in dung is going down much slower than it could with meta, endgame dps and so we have full right to kick everyone in dung doing less than lets say what we are able or our great mates/players who we know how high dps they have!
so because random even on low cp cant do enough dps as exp people on endgame then he is wasting my and rest of the team time for killing things to slow so he deserve kick in 100% for this and doesnt matter how easy is this content

PS: to everyone else...as I see tite of thread seems to be badly written - sorry I didn't know how else name it..but this definitelly attracted real toxicity here

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

Haquor wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

I don't really see this as being toxic or elitists. Just people who'd rather wait for a new queue player to join than your load screen. Best to just move on.

How is waiting for a new player in the q to pop and then load the entire dungeon any quicker than waiting for a player currently in group and in the dungeon to adjust an addon?

If they wanted to 3-man it they could have done a walk-in as well. Faster than group finder.

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Solution: Devs add a timer to dungeons where you have to wait 10 minutes before you can kick someone.

This is not a good solutions because it can ruin runs. Trust me.

This sounds like people simply didn't want to wait for someone fixing something. I've seen it happen; I've been kicked while trying to sell stuff after maxing out my inventory.

Or how about solo mode. Solves a heckuva lot of social issues. Remove the group finder. Can't get a group together with guildies? Just do it alone and save everyone a headache -- devs don't have to make a group finder, you don't end up with impatient people, incompetent people, etcetera.

Edziu · February 2020

Haquor wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

I don't really see this as being toxic or elitists. Just people who'd rather wait for a new queue player to join than your load screen. Best to just move on.

How is waiting for a new player in the q to pop and then load the entire dungeon any quicker than waiting for a player currently in group and in the dungeon to adjust an addon?

Unless they enjoy waiting more than playing then thier stupidity just *** themselves around.

Unless there is more to the story before the screenshot ofc.

yes, there is more story to this in #14 comment and btw #7 comment is also with very good point to situation like this

WhitePawPrints · February 2020

Haquor wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

I don't really see this as being toxic or elitists. Just people who'd rather wait for a new queue player to join than your load screen. Best to just move on.

How is waiting for a new player in the q to pop and then load the entire dungeon any quicker than waiting for a player currently in group and in the dungeon to adjust an addon?

Exactly

Tigerseye · February 2020

Edziu wrote: »

Zatox wrote: »

Can you adjust your addon before queue in?
Can you run FG1 without addons?
The answer is "No" to both questions, right? Otherwise, you dont ask to wait.
You get what you deserve, dont waste time of yours group members.

"and you get why you deserve"...hmm...so taking less than 1 min for adjust addon is such bad impact for rest of the team whiel also informing them about this...this is so big offense to everyone else and need penalty ASAP...not like we wait many times so long for all mates to gather before we start pug trial with also random people...gotcha

for next time whne I find someone afk for more than 30 seconds in my team in pug I gonna try to kick because this is what they deserve for being inactive in this dung without even informing us he need moment before going further!

very thanks for your logic sir, I will get it to use for further

1 minute is reasonable, in my opinion.

I would have waited.

There again, I would be more patient than you have said you are, previously, in general.

So, maybe you should think about that?

Do as you would be done by.

Alpheu5 · February 2020

Zatox wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

There's an addon called Untaunted.

Sometimes you port into your first dungeon after a new patch and it bugs out. Nearly half your screen is filled with dummy opaque health bars and you need to reload the addon to remove them.

If that's a kickable offense for you then you shouldn't be running actual random dungeons, period.

Your addons - is your own pain and responsibility. If one of them doesnt work properly - uninstall it.
And yes, wasting time of the other players is a kickable offense. But snitching on the forum about toxic group is even worse.

Im running random dungeons a lot, but usually i have good fast group. Otherwise we kick weak or slow player.

Then if I ever see your name pop up in my group I'll know to kick you right away, lest you kick me as a tank for slowing us down with pesky "blocking" and "taking off leash for the boss".

TheFM · February 2020

Zatox wrote: »

Can you adjust your addon before queue in?
Can you run FG1 without addons?
The answer is "No" to both questions, right? Otherwise, you dont ask to wait.
You get what you deserve, dont waste time of yours group members.

Yeah, im sorry, youre time isnt that precious that 30 seconds is gonna ruin your whole day. Being an elitst jerk however.

Edziu · February 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Zatox wrote: »

Can you adjust your addon before queue in?
Can you run FG1 without addons?
The answer is "No" to both questions, right? Otherwise, you dont ask to wait.
You get what you deserve, dont waste time of yours group members.

"and you get why you deserve"...hmm...so taking less than 1 min for adjust addon is such bad impact for rest of the team whiel also informing them about this...this is so big offense to everyone else and need penalty ASAP...not like we wait many times so long for all mates to gather before we start pug trial with also random people...gotcha

for next time whne I find someone afk for more than 30 seconds in my team in pug I gonna try to kick because this is what they deserve for being inactive in this dung without even informing us he need moment before going further!

very thanks for your logic sir, I will get it to use for further

1 minute is reasonable, in my opinion.

I would have waited.

There again, I would be more patient than you have said you are, previously, in general.

So, maybe you should think about that?

Do as you would be done by.

as it was here..it was informed about need sec, moment, I see you what you would ahve done, how you are while playing, for myself as I was writting this? idk even but for most time I give try atleast to 1st boss how is going rest group before judging hard...then if I have problem with someone in group and especially if this not a single person for me...then I just leave group to not impose my "elitism" here for rest players in group...but as you was talking to mu, I respond to not look myself as such jerk
as this is also different story than situation here :P

thadjarvis · February 2020

If someone asks for prep, there shouldn't be an issue. Even for easy stuff, the 30 seconds to swap stuff from say a PvP setup would probably save 30 seconds in the course of the run. For hard stuff like vDLC, often you make a set swap (eg you might feel like changing if your balls are the same color as someone else's).

But in easy sections (defined by something one of the group members can solo), it seems fine to me for a subset to go on ahead to clear stuff as long as they don't skip over a quest marker / pledge requirement. In pre-made dungeon and trial groups that's pretty normal: someone goes to the bathroom..."take your time, we'll clear out some stuff...welcome back".

Bucky Balls · February 2020

Rather than elitism/toxicity I'd suspect that, given one of the players said 'ok' in response to the add-on fix comment that another player, maybe fooling around (or not) initiated a vote-kick which only passed because the others thought it was a 'ready' check.

I suggest this because if someone replies 'ok' in response to a 'please wait' request I've found it's not unusual to see multiple 'ready' checks follow.

Alienoutlaw · February 2020

being better prepared for a dungeon would have solved this issue, if you wasnt sure how your addons would work maybe enter a dungeon solo and adjust things on your own time instead of holding up others who may have already done that, the only "toxic/elitism" i see here is this post complaining

SeaGtGruff · February 2020

Have to agree with the OP, given that the timestamps show it took less than a minute to adjust his add-on. The rest of the group obviously didn't wait before raising the vote to kick, and by the timestamps it actually took all of them longer to vote than it took the OP to adjust the add-on. Hope it took them a while after that to find another 4th, would serve them right. It's like when you're in heavy traffic and you try to take a shortcut to save time but it ends up taking even longer-- just dumb.

dazee · February 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

So, if I remember correctly, you are the guy who says he kicks others, in random groups, if they're not good enough?

Yet, you complain if others kick you for not entering the dungeon pre-prepared?

Interesting.

is he? didnt see him mention that in his OP. I do know that the toxic players like to accuse anyone who stands up to them of being toxic.

YandereGirlfriend · February 2020

Let me represent one moment for Team "No Addons, No Problems!" Seems to me like they're usually more trouble than they're worth.

Speaking of more trouble than it's worth, kicking someone and then having to wait around 10+ minutes for their replacement to arrive via the Group Finder seems like a massive Phyrric victory for time savings.

That also said, please arrive at your dungeon prepared and ready to roll. I wouldn't kick anyone for it, but I would definitely just start the dungeon with the others if collectively we could clear things without the 4th member. I would of course pause before the first boss though because I am nice.

Re: Rules to disallow kicking before 10 minutes has elapsed in a dungeon: That's an awful idea. This isn't the case for the OP, but if someone is AFK and incommunicado at the start of the dungeon, nobody has any idea how long they will be gone: could be 10 seconds, could be 30 seconds, could be 5 minutes, could be 30 MINUTES for all anyone knows. As the saying goes, "Ain't nobody got time for that."

bmnoble · February 2020

Lack of patience rather than elitism.

OP took the time in chat to ask for a few moments, explained what they needed to do barely 3 minutes later gets vote kicked.

Not like he was just sitting their AFK without saying nothing or left the keyboard, he was there in game adjusting his add on, there was no reason to kick him only to wait for another person in the queue, would have been quicker to wait.

About the only time I stop to adjust an add on in a dungeon is when I have forgotten to turn off MM before the run, since it affects performance.

Don't really have any add ons that are of any use in combat so don't know, what kind of add on OP needed to adjust or how long it would have taken.

All these people who complain he should have been prepared before the dungeon, I would have happily taken OP in my group over a DD I got the other day who didn't carry any soul gems, he was not able revive other group members during boss fights.

Wasn't until the guy died to trash on the way to the next boss fight and asked to be revived that we learnt this, we were only on are way to the second boss, I offered to give him a stack of soul gems before we continued he refused, stated some role play nonsense as his reason.

Before you all start thinking this was an easy dungeon, we were in Moon Hunter Keep, I started the vote kick right after reading his role play reasoning, it passed we got another DD a few minutes later.

Let me also mention this got nothing against role play builds don't care if your not wearing meta sets so long as the group has enough DPS to clear the dungeon but when you try to apply arbitrary role play rules to a group I am in that affect your ability to contribute your getting kicked.

idk · February 2020

Zatox wrote: »

Can you adjust your addon before queue in?
Can you run FG1 without addons?
The answer is "No" to both questions, right? Otherwise, you dont ask to wait.
You get what you deserve, dont waste time of yours group members.

My first thought was wondering why they queue with messed up addons and wait until the queue pops to fix them.

To OP, while I would have not kicked you I also would not wait at the start. This is really not elitism. I agree they were rude in kicking you but it is also rude to make people wait when you should have been prepared.

Eormenric · February 2020

This might be toxicity, but it isn't elitism. It's closer to impatience and annoyance, which are acceptable emotions when YOU feel them so they need to be when others do.

Elsonso · February 2020

I'm going to go with "lack of patience" on the part of the group, rudeness on the part of the player.

Some add-on needs to be "adjusted". What does that even mean? Are they making coding changes? Reloading the UI? Adding or removing add-ons? No one in that group cared, and I can't think of a reason why they should.

The OP didn't ask. The group was told to wait. That's rude.

Other than impatience, I am not seeing where the group did wrong. The player was rude in not asking if it was ok to "adjust" things, and is obviously not ready for the dungeon.

Next time be ready when you say you are ready, or just live with it and do the best you can.

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

The OP didn't ask. The group was told to wait. That's rude.

Did the OP tell the group to wait? Maybe they thought they were expected to wait but clearly it wasn't the case. OP just said they needed a bit of time.

And it's FG1. People solo this stuff on vet. He could have caught up before the first boss.

If the OP had a lag spike and couldn't say anything, I wonder if it would have turned out differently.

Elsonso · February 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

The OP didn't ask. The group was told to wait. That's rude.

Did the OP tell the group to wait? Maybe they thought they were expected to wait but clearly it wasn't the case. OP just said they needed a bit of time.

And it's FG1. People solo this stuff on vet. He could have caught up before the first boss.

If the OP had a lag spike and couldn't say anything, I wonder if it would have turned out differently.

It was clear that they were expected to wait. That he would catch up, if they did not. The point is that he did not ask. He did it, assuming that they would agree that it was OK. They did not.

It does not matter what dungeon it was. They formed a group. If they had wanted to do it solo, they would not have formed a group.

gabriebe · February 2020

What kind of add on do you need to do FG1 though

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

The OP didn't ask. The group was told to wait. That's rude.

Did the OP tell the group to wait? Maybe they thought they were expected to wait but clearly it wasn't the case. OP just said they needed a bit of time.

And it's FG1. People solo this stuff on vet. He could have caught up before the first boss.

If the OP had a lag spike and couldn't say anything, I wonder if it would have turned out differently.

It was clear that they were expected to wait. That he would catch up, if they did not.

That's ONE way of reading what the OP said in chat and it's still an assumption.

Another ASSUMPTION is that what the OP said in chat had any bearing on whether he was going to get kicked.

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

The OP didn't ask. The group was told to wait. That's rude.

Did the OP tell the group to wait? Maybe they thought they were expected to wait but clearly it wasn't the case. OP just said they needed a bit of time.

And it's FG1. People solo this stuff on vet. He could have caught up before the first boss.

If the OP had a lag spike and couldn't say anything, I wonder if it would have turned out differently.

It was clear that they were expected to wait. That he would catch up, if they did not.

That's ONE way of reading what the OP said in chat and it's still an assumption.

Another ASSUMPTION is that what the OP said in chat or what he did in that less-than-one-minute had any bearing on whether he was going to get kicked.

Elsonso · February 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

That's ONE way of reading what the OP said in chat and it's still an assumption.

Another ASSUMPTION is that what the OP said in chat had any bearing on whether he was going to get kicked.

True. It appears that they started, since he collected gold between the statement and the kick. It is reasonable to assume that the absence and reason were the cause of the kick. We can only go on available data, but the conclusion seems sound.

BackStabeth · February 2020

Zatox wrote: »

Can you adjust your addon before queue in?
Can you run FG1 without addons?
The answer is "No" to both questions, right? Otherwise, you dont ask to wait.
You get what you deserve, dont waste time of yours group members.

Meh, after an update like this, people might not realize their addons are not compatible prior to going into queue.

Notifying people you need a min for a bio break is not out of line, people do it all the time, adjusting or disabling an addon surely takes less time.

People who are of high enough CP, who queue as 3 friends and know they can do a dungeon without someone who has asked for just a min out of their life, will sometimes kick people just because that person isn't clicked up with them.

Everyone, you included, were low CP at some point. Someone had to hold your hand, explain things to you, help you along, spend a little extra time waiting on you all the things you think it's so clever to complain about here. And who cares, honestly, if someone is using an addon in fungal grotto I or II or any other dungeon. Addons are part of the game for PC at least, and many of them, most of them have benefits that have nothing to do with playing a dungeon better. If you have spent any time playing the game, you should know this.

Also, if you do play with addons, after this update the addons didn't work which caused issues with some people, and had to be fixed. Having the addon failure message that takes up the full center of your screen makes the game unplayable. The reason the addons didn't work is because the new update automatically made them all out of date, and the out of date box needed to be clicked.

The person you express yourself as being, the person you present to us here is that same mentality that rubs people the wrong way in game. I have to wonder if you are not being this way on purpose, or are you really how you seem to be here in this thread? Do you really treat people this way? Do you think that people appreciate you behaving as you are? Do you only behave this way because you cannot be held accountable in any significant way?

There is no place for eletism snobbery, for veteran "been playing since beta" rudeness. Everyone started out new, everyone needed help and understanding people whom they were playing with. You should treat people with respect and dignity, specially when they tell you they need to fix something that only takes a min out of their life.

The intolerance people like you show in this game just seems so outlandish, so over the top, so overly sensitive and just plain rude. If you don't run through dungeons at break neck speeds and you want to enjoy the dungeon as you like to, you run the risk of upsetting elitist veteran snobs who hold the votes in their hands because they are clicked up and can kick you. It's like grade school all over.

BackStabeth · February 2020

SpiderCultist wrote: »

what addon did he mean? there's no addon to measure others' DPS afaik or whatever he needed to adjust, that's just bad manners and bs

let us not become WOWers pls

Combat Metrics

Regardless if you need a bio break, people will wait for you and that takes far longer.

Being rude is being intolerant, someone telling you they will be a min while they fix their addons so the full middle of their screen isn't taken up by a big error that then needs to be dismissed is not that big a deal.

It's hard to believe how intolerant people have become. Would you treat people whom you know and care about in real life this way? Would you treat anyone in real life, anyone, this way? Would you say the rude things that are said, to anyone in real life? Nope, you wouldn't, so why are you someone else online? What about being online makes being rude acceptable for you? And do you want other people to treat you the same way?