Magic executes are at a all time low and the pvp teir list shows.

phoenixkungfu · January 2020

I'm simply going to say it. Magic isn't as competitive as stam. Why is that? I believe its because of the state of executes. It's not rewarding to use them. It's very common to see a target not die with a magic executes. I believe classes with a magic executes executes should be buff. The buff should be calculated in a way that no matter the build executes will finish a target. This will make magic executes class s teir in my opinion. The way it should be. I also believe across the board all executes should finish a target at 25%. This will make it deadly and universal to understand not to let your health go below 25% against a magic executes class. In my opinion,
the state of magic executes, is the biggest identity loss in the gameplay of eso. Executes should be finishers and eliminate a target ability to get a second chance!!

ChunkyCat · January 2020

Well, if you say so.

robpr · January 2020

Lets start with adding executes to classes that dont have ones, like mDKs or magdens. Then we can talk about their balance, as Sorcs lingering execute is not viewed as very skillful - in fact you can execute someone casting it outside of execute range, simply getting the limit using whatever skill for remaining duration of the proc.

VaranisArano · January 2020

So this is why I haven't seen a complaint thread about sorc executes in BGs for months! I was starting to miss them.

Oh. Wait a minute...

VaranisArano · January 2020

robpr wrote: »

Lets start with adding executes to classes that dont have ones, like mDKs or magdens. Then we can talk about their balance, as Sorcs lingering execute is not viewed as very skillful - in fact you can execute someone casting it outside of execute range, simply getting the limit using whatever skill for remaining duration of the proc.

You'd think the forum poster who wants universal counter gameplay and wants all the skills and classes to behave consistently (often contrary to ZOS' intent) would be all over that lack of executes for MagWarden and MagDK, right?

Problem is, that won't result in buffs to their favored (only) build: ranged full-damage pet sorc.

HankTwo · January 2020

You wanna make magicka executes unmitigable insta kills but not their stam equivalents? Shows how biased you are.

Anyway, your idea is just bad. No one should die to a tank build with no offensive stats while blocking just because their execute insta kills. This would make tanky high regen kill steal magsorcs truly ridiculous in BGs ( to make things clear, I think current mages fury is fine, your proposed version would be not). Furthermore, this change would be a big, indirect nerf to shield ult, mist form and corrosive armor.

zvavi · January 2020

1. it sounds totally unfair to classes without executes.
2. also sorc execute is in a good spot, since it can be applied early it makes sense it will only proc on 20% (not to forget the small dmg it deals at use).
3. main reason i dont want this ever to be implanted is the tank meta, cause this idea totally helps tanks execute damage (excuse my horrible pun) without building damage.

Seraphayel · January 2020

I think Jesus Beam and Impale are quite strong, Mage‘s Fury is as well if used right. But compared to amount of executes Stamina has... I agree. Magicka should at least get one execute DoT (or a simple execute in the Mage‘s Guild, Psijik or Destruction Staff skill line).

Iskiab · January 2020

My hope is they add a melee magicka weapon skill line with an ability excute. I was just thinking the other day MagWarden would be a beast if they ever got one.

Solariken · January 2020

ZOS still owes us a Dark Brotherhood skill line, which obviously should include an execute. Waiting patiently @ZOS_RichLambert

Sorbin · January 2020

Wow the forums were almost enjoyable for the few days that you weren't thrusting your l2p *** fits into the wild.

Stibbons · January 2020

Sorc fire and forget finisher is not good?

SodanTok · January 2020

Nah. I dont believe you understand the game well enough to be able to claim such things. Try waiting at least a year and if your opinion doesnt change you can try again.

relentless_turnip · January 2020

As much as always disagree with the op opinions on this game. I do think magicka melee classes need some kind of a boost. I think sorcs are in a great spot! I think if we were talking from a solo PvP perspective alone we know the magicka classes that struggle and we know it isn't sorc's 😂

x48rph · January 2020

Solariken wrote: »

ZOS still owes us a Dark Brotherhood skill line, which obviously should include an execute. Waiting patiently @ZOS_RichLambert

So true

Fur_like_snow · January 2020

take a pet off your bar then you’d have space to slot fury, OP.

JumpmanLane · January 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

Lets start with adding executes to classes that dont have ones, like mDKs or magdens. Then we can talk about their balance, as Sorcs lingering execute is not viewed as very skillful - in fact you can execute someone casting it outside of execute range, simply getting the limit using whatever skill for remaining duration of the proc.

You'd think the forum poster who wants universal counter gameplay and wants all the skills and classes to behave consistently (often contrary to ZOS' intent) would be all over that lack of executes for MagWarden and MagDK, right?

Problem is, that won't result in buffs to their favored (only) build: ranged full-damage pet sorc.

Had a good laugh on this one! AWESOMED! 😂

On a MagDk DAMAGE is your execute. I kill more people with FLAME Lash than any other skill. By a MILE. Even more if you add in the powerlashes.

NERF op’s OP SORC!

MashmalloMan · January 2020

Coming from a sorc with one of the best executes in the game, you want them to now guarantee a kill

What happened to your other posts with so many concerns about counter play? You're biased.

Where do you come up with this stuff? You act like you care about all magicka classes, but your point of view is only ever for pet sorc. I can't tell you how many BG matches I've played with 2-3 mag sorcs just spamming executes on people from 20+ m. Those matches are just annoying and no one feels like mSorcs earn their kills, they're notorious kill stealers. Nothing needs to change for mSorc and their execute is in a fantastic spot.

Other classes, sure. I'd like to see an excute function added to the destruction staff line. Reach is fairly weak in it's power budget considering its practically the same as Poison Injection except it has 0 execute scaling. I think that's a primary target for something like a universal magicka execute.

phoenixkungfu · January 2020

After seeing everyone's reply. It's my belief that some classes have different identities from other classes. For me one of the primary distinctions is the ability to execute. When I see an execute in a class I instantly label that class as a damage dealer. The issue I have with execute abilities now is executes behavior is like Spamable rather than finisher ending moves. The damase's just too low and the take meta allows people to out tank an execute. Due to this statement I don't use executes and it's a shame because I feel like an execute is a iconic class ability. I do not believe execute should be universal but class specific. However based on executes being a part of stamina skill lines I could see how execute could be implemented in a staffs skill line. I believe class identity specific of a class executes. should identify a damage dealer from a jack-of-all-trades class.

yodased · January 2020

I think you are just getting confused by semantics and the literal definition of the word execute.

Ramping up damage 300% based on missing health or fire and forget until the target gets to a marked percentage already is very strong.

Stamine executes are nightblade and weapon skill lines so it would seem to be more in line to add an execute to a magic skill line not a class

Also not every class needs to be homogenous, balance comes from restriction after all.

And your idea to insta kill someone < 25% health would just mean we would only ever be playing with 75% health. It's silly to move the kill floor up so high

phoenixkungfu · January 2020

yodased wrote: »

I think you are just getting confused by semantics and the literal definition of the word execute.

Ramping up damage 300% based on missing health or fire and forget until the target gets to a marked percentage already is very strong.

Stamine executes are nightblade and weapon skill lines so it would seem to be more in line to add an execute to a magic skill line not a class

Also not every class needs to be homogenous, balance comes from restriction after all.

And your idea to insta kill someone < 25% health would just mean we would only ever be playing with 75% health. It's silly to move the kill floor up so high

I disagree, I think is pretty good gameplay to say and execute is going execute you at 25%. So plan accordingly. However I do think it's bad gameplay that weapon skill equal the best executes in game in terms of splash damage and utility. But I know this is not gonna change because it's now a staple of the gameplay even if it is bad gameplay. I believe this is why stam is pretty much broken. Its mainly because of executioner and "spin to win" in the weapon skill line. In terms of DPS. I believe class executes should be the strongest of executes but compared to stem executes they pale in comparison. This is a major issue and problem with the gameplay.

VaranisArano · January 2020

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

After seeing everyone's reply. It's my belief that some classes have different identities from other classes. For me one of the primary distinctions is the ability to execute. When I see an execute in a class I instantly label that class as a damage dealer. The issue I have with execute abilities now is executes behavior is like Spamable rather than finisher ending moves. The damase's just too low and the take meta allows people to out tank an execute. Due to this statement I don't use executes and it's a shame because I feel like an execute is a iconic class ability. I do not believe execute should be universal but class specific. However based on executes being a part of stamina skill lines I could see how execute could be implemented in a staffs skill line. I believe class identity specific of a class executes. should identify a damage dealer from a jack-of-all-trades class.

Mmm, so some abilities should be class-specific, iconic, unique, and buffed like your MagSorc execute.

But other iconic, unique class abilities should be nerfed to be in line with your "rules", like...oh, everything that gives you trouble or you think is unbalanced. Shalk range, Burning Embers, Cloak, etc.

I'm sensing a theme here: "Buff my ranged, full-damage pet Sorc. Nerf everyone else."

(Also, we've already had the discussion about how your beliefs about class identity are superseded by ZOS' recent decisions here: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/57025 )

MerguezMan · January 2020

@VaranisArano , you'rea bit rude. This is not a nerf thread, there is some progress.

@phoenixkungfu , I'm a bit lost about what you say... You expect a buff on magicka execute skills that you don't use ?

1) Assuming it could happen, wouldn't you complain afterwards that there is no real counter for ... Other classes executes, like Nightblade's Impale (28m range, can be casted from invisibility) ?

2) Did you factor in Amplitude and Energized passives in Sorcerer's skills in balance comparisons ?
IMO, there is nothing wrong with Mage's Fury. It works like other execute skills.

3) About target instakill at or below 25% HP...
- this should never make it's way to pve. If you're against a 6 mil. HP Boss, killing him at 25% HP is a bit ridiculous.
- what about builds that rely on shields ? Instead of healing, you'd pop a shield, but get killed anyway ?
- what about executes that scale from 50% HP ?

4) Have you tried Bloodthirsty trait on jewelry ? It buffs damage on low-health targets. Like, all damage.

witchdoctor · January 2020

MerguezMan wrote: »

@VaranisArano , you'rea bit rude. This is not a nerf thread, there is some progress.

What? Varanis should be nominated for sainthood.

jcm2606 · January 2020

SodanTok wrote: »

Nah. I dont believe you understand the game well enough to be able to claim such things. Try waiting at least a year and if your opinion doesnt change you can try again.

More like, get off your petsorc and spend time on other classes. Sorc has it the best when it comes to executes, OP has no reason to complain.

VaranisArano · January 2020

MerguezMan wrote: »

@VaranisArano , you're a bit rude. This is not a nerf thread, there is some progress.

I suppose that a badly thought out buff thread is progress compared to a badly thought out nerf thread, sure.

I find it exceptionally ironic that the OP calls for homogenization and nerfs to the iconic, unique class skills of other classes (Cloak, Scorch, Burning Embers, Puncturing Sweeps, to name some recent ones) because those skills are unbalanced, lack universal counterplay, and don't follow the OP's combat "rules"...

And then the OP turns around and defends buffing Sorc pets, AOE burst damage, and now executes on multiple occasions because those are iconic, unique class skills that fit the OP's (outdated) vision for Sorc.

Counterplay, what counterplay? Executes should be finishers with no second chances. Classes that don't have them like MagDKs and MagWardens can just forget about getting those buffs because executes should remain unique to the OP's (outdated) vision of damage-dealing classes.

Consistency, what consistency?

You don't have to agree, but the only thing I've seen remain consistent over multiple threads now is the OP's desire for ZOS to buff their favored (only) build: ranged, full-damage pet Sorc.
Calling for unique skills to follow the "rules" goes out the window when it means buffing Sorc.
Saying all classes should have access to similar utility goes out the window when it means making Sorc less unique.
Counterplay goes out the window when it means buffing Sorc.

I'd be a LOT more willing to consider the OP's ideas if they applied the reasons they ask for nerfs to other classes in a consistent fashion to Sorcs. Or if they applied the reasons they asked for buffs to Sorcs to their complaints about the iconic, unique class skills of other classes. Unfortunately, I've yet to see that logical consistency or a cohesive vision for gameplay changes. I'd like to see a more consistent approach from the OP. I've asked for that in the past. I've yet to see it.

zvavi · January 2020

MerguezMan wrote: »

@VaranisArano , you'rea bit rude. This is not a nerf thread, there is some progress.

It is not the first non nerf thread, doesnt make it any more thought out.

Mixith · January 2020

I really don't think making execute kill someone instantly is a great idea, i don't see how that would be balanced at all. I would however wish that both the mag and stam sides of every class got an execute or that they added one to a magicka skill line since stam skill line has one. Then again im no balance expert so take that as you will.

Xvorg · January 2020

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I'm simply going to say it. Magic isn't as competitive as stam. Why is that? I believe its because of the state of executes. It's not rewarding to use them. It's very common to see a target not die with a magic executes. I believe classes with a magic executes executes should be buff. The buff should be calculated in a way that no matter the build executes will finish a target. This will make magic executes class s teir in my opinion. The way it should be. I also believe across the board all executes should finish a target at 25%. This will make it deadly and universal to understand not to let your health go below 25% against a magic executes class. In my opinion,
the state of magic executes, is the biggest identity loss in the gameplay of eso. Executes should be finishers and eliminate a target ability to get a second chance!!

You know why stam has universal access to executes while magicka doesn't have them?

A clue: stam is used for every defensive move in stam, so you need to kill fast before running OoS

Xvorg · January 2020

MerguezMan wrote: »

@VaranisArano , you'rea bit rude. This is not a nerf thread, there is some progress.

@phoenixkungfu , I'm a bit lost about what you say... You expect a buff on magicka execute skills that you don't use ?

1) Assuming it could happen, wouldn't you complain afterwards that there is no real counter for ... Other classes executes, like Nightblade's Impale (28m range, can be casted from invisibility) ?

2) Did you factor in Amplitude and Energized passives in Sorcerer's skills in balance comparisons ?
IMO, there is nothing wrong with Mage's Fury. It works like other execute skills.

3) About target instakill at or below 25% HP...
- this should never make it's way to pve. If you're against a 6 mil. HP Boss, killing him at 25% HP is a bit ridiculous.
- what about builds that rely on shields ? Instead of healing, you'd pop a shield, but get killed anyway ?
- what about executes that scale from 50% HP ?

4) Have you tried Bloodthirsty trait on jewelry ? It buffs damage on low-health targets. Like, all damage.

OP doesn't know what's a mageblade... I think he believes it's some sort of mythological animal such as unicorns or the beam that Jesus throws from his hand.... pure mythology

Seraphayel · January 2020

Xvorg wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I'm simply going to say it. Magic isn't as competitive as stam. Why is that? I believe its because of the state of executes. It's not rewarding to use them. It's very common to see a target not die with a magic executes. I believe classes with a magic executes executes should be buff. The buff should be calculated in a way that no matter the build executes will finish a target. This will make magic executes class s teir in my opinion. The way it should be. I also believe across the board all executes should finish a target at 25%. This will make it deadly and universal to understand not to let your health go below 25% against a magic executes class. In my opinion,
the state of magic executes, is the biggest identity loss in the gameplay of eso. Executes should be finishers and eliminate a target ability to get a second chance!!

You know why stam has universal access to executes while magicka doesn't have them?

A clue: stam is used for every defensive move in stam, so you need to kill fast before running OoS

This sounds pretty unreasonable though. Stamina skills are already 15% cheaper than their counterparts plus LA/HA with Stamina weapons (besides Bow) is way easier than with the Magicka weapons. Stamina has less resource issues than Magicka.