Master Writs Analysts: Learning All traits is it worth it?

WiseSky · October 2019

I been torn should I do Traits research on my alts for chance of Master Writs to drop hence make more gold.

After seeing this data:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yQDUjYNQVsIFl0ktkbkSlfYPkzP6pgCOTMQ-qCuzfaI/edit#gid=1959859267

Data from this post originally
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459690/tracking-daily-writ-reward-drop-rates-refining-rates/p1

Master Writs profit for Woodworking is 11% out of the total.
Master Writs profit for Clothing is 5% out of the total.
Master Writs profit for Blacksmithing 8% out of the total.
Master Writs profit for Jewelry is 23% out of the total.

* All crafters know the 9 basic racial styles, all 4 base game purple, as well as Hollowjack and Skinchanger motifs.
* 15 crafters are full 9-trait, 15 are full 8-trait, the last 6 are learning traits.

So technically not knowing any traits what are the odds of getting master writs, compared to knowing all of them?

*Without most motifs, the drop rate for Blacksmithing/Woodworking/Clothing master writs appears to be around 1/15 or 6% (but going up to about 1/10, or 10% with some basic motif knowledge)

I dont see the point of learning all traits except on jewelry which is the most profitable.

Am I missing something?

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2019

oneskygod wrote: »

Am I missing something?

Maybe you're missing the fact that researching traits costs absolutely NOTHING, so why not do it ?
I understand the risk/cost/benefit analysis but in this case the risk is zero and the cost is negligible. There's no reason not to do it.

WiseSky · October 2019

[/quote]

Maybe you're missing the fact that researching traits costs absolutely NOTHING, so why not do it ?
I understand the risk/cost/benefit analysis but in this case the risk is zero and the cost is negligible. There's no reason not to do it. [/quote]

Just cant be bothered with following all the traits on 12 chars seams to much, if it would raise drop rate from 5% to 10% meaning I would only lose at max 5% of profit and as little as 2% profit difference ,except jewelry, it just dosent seam worth it...

tmbrinks · October 2019

You are correct for the most part.

The profit in doing writs primarily comes from the gold improvement materials that you can get to drop from them. The master writs are secondary in their profit.

I also need to adjust the "cost" of jewelry master writs, as the spike in cost of Iridium platings makes their profit significantly less.

I primarily research all the traits on my crafters because
* It's easy
* It's cheap
* If I need to transmute something, I don't have to transfer it to another character
* The drop rate is higher, so it's nothing but pure profit.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · October 2019

I learned all traits for all crafts on my main. On my alt I have only been concerned about getting to 8 traits leaving out Triune and Nirnhoned. I sell Triune writs as it isn't worth the cost for the material to me and if I pick up Nirnhoned my main can always handle it. Where I have been putting more emphasis is on learning motifs for both as I think that has a greater effect on Master Writs than traits do (though I might be wrong in that regard).

tmbrinks · October 2019

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

I learned all traits for all crafts on my main. On my alt I have only been concerned about getting to 8 traits leaving out Triune and Nirnhoned. I sell Triune writs as it isn't worth the cost for the material to me and if I pick up Nirnhoned my main can always handle it. Where I have been putting more emphasis is on learning motifs for both as I think that has a greater effect on Master Writs than traits do (though I might be wrong in that regard).

Yes, motif knowledge has a larger impact, especially for the first few that you learn. There are diminishing returns on motif knowledge. Just as a reminder, it only matters if you know the entire motif, not just individual pages. The increase in drop rate appears to be tied to the achievements associated with both learning motifs, and for learning traits.

katanagirl1 · October 2019

I didn’t get master writ drops until my first character got all 8 traits in wood, ore, and cloth. Is it possible to get them earlier? I didn’t think so.

I’m not convinced that number of styles learned has an impact. I don’t get any more master writs now (with all styles except about four) than I did with only 20 learned.

tmbrinks · October 2019

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I didn’t get master writ drops until my first character got all 8 traits in wood, ore, and cloth. Is it possible to get them earlier? I didn’t think so.

I’m not convinced that number of styles learned has an impact. I don’t get any more master writs now (with all styles except about four) than I did with only 20 learned.

Yes, it is possible to get them earlier. When I created my 2nd account, I quickly got a couple of them to rank 50 and max level in a craft (had been saving up intricates, and bought a lot of them as well), so they only had a couple of traits researched and were still getting master writs.

As far as the number of styles learned, it is weighted very heavily towards the beginning.

I have no clue of the actual math on it, other than it has diminishing returns.

An example of what I think it might be:
First full purple motif increases the chance by say 1%
Second increases by 1/2%
Third by 1/3%
Fouth by 1/4%

something like that, so by the time you get to the 21st, 40th, 70th motif, it's a very, very, very small gain.

wolfie1.0. · October 2019

tmbrinks wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I didn’t get master writ drops until my first character got all 8 traits in wood, ore, and cloth. Is it possible to get them earlier? I didn’t think so.

I’m not convinced that number of styles learned has an impact. I don’t get any more master writs now (with all styles except about four) than I did with only 20 learned.

Yes, it is possible to get them earlier. When I created my 2nd account, I quickly got a couple of them to rank 50 and max level in a craft (had been saving up intricates, and bought a lot of them as well), so they only had a couple of traits researched and were still getting master writs.

As far as the number of styles learned, it is weighted very heavily towards the beginning.

I have no clue of the actual math on it, other than it has diminishing returns.

An example of what I think it might be:
First full purple motif increases the chance by say 1%
Second increases by 1/2%
Third by 1/3%
Fouth by 1/4%

something like that, so by the time you get to the 21st, 40th, 70th motif, it's a very, very, very small gain.

I have daily crafting on 50 characters of various stages of crafting levels. I'm collect ing data from essentially all stages of the process.

To tmbanks point my personal sweet spot seems to be in the 10 to 15 range. Basically I learn the 9 basic race motifs and then do the 5 to 6 cheapest ones after that. And it seems to work. My personal data shows a heavier weight toward trait knowledge, but that easily could be accounted for RNG and my data does not go as far back as banks documentation. For which I envy that is one impressive spreadsheet.

AndyMac · October 2019

I’ve got a nine trait Grand Master Crafter, 8-9 traits on my main - who knows approx 20 styles- and 5-7 traits done on 4 alts who know base game ex Imperial - plus Skinchanger and a couple of Hollowjack.

All have wood/cloth/metal at 50 and all but one has level 50 jewellery. 3 are at max enchanting. Alchemy and Provisioning are various - 4 maxed as I play them.

They all get MWs - some of them are now getting their first gold MWs. I haven’t done hard analysis- but it’s quite surprising that my Grand Crafter doesn’t do THAT much better with MWs given the huge gap in motif knowledge.

Provided you are level 50, trait knowledge seems to be the prime mover with MWs. They start dropping after 5 traits as far as I can tell. Motif knowledge not so much at all.

Trait research is easy with an add on I use - Trait Buddy. I can get on my crafter and see what all the others need made. Writs and general decon make most of the mats free - except for crux and some of JC which only two will ever learn fully.

If you do writs regularly, then trait research is a bit of a no brainer really.

tmbrinks · October 2019

AndyMac wrote: »

They all get MWs - some of them are now getting their first gold MWs. I haven’t done hard analysis- but it’s quite surprising that my Grand Crafter doesn’t do THAT much better with MWs given the huge gap in motif knowledge.

Just for clarification... knowing more traits/motifs does NOT increase your chance of getting gold master writs. It only increases your odds of getting a master writ to begin with. From there, the writ that you receive is completely random.

redlink1979 · October 2019

@oneskygod Researching traits costs nothing but time...

Perhaps when you get a golden master writ asking for a set that requires you to know 9 traits you will see the point of researching all...

Or whenever you (or even a friend or guild mate) need a craftable set which requires 9 traits to craft you will see the point of researching all...

beadabow · October 2019

If you play long enough and enjoy crafting, all of your characters will know all 9 traits on everything craftable. It's inevitable.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · October 2019

redlink1979 wrote: »

@oneskygod Researching traits costs nothing but time...

Perhaps when you get a golden master writ asking for a set that requires you to know 9 traits you will see the point of researching all...

Or whenever you (or even a friend or guild mate) need a craftable set which requires 9 traits to craft you will see the point of researching all...

I agree to a point. If you only have a single crafting character then it is a good idea to learn all 9 traits. However if you have more than one crafter I don't see any advantage to leveling all of them to 9 traits. As long as you have one 9 trait character your others can send it the 9 trait writs to complete. It also saves on costs of using your own nirncrux to make research items or having to buy them through the guild stores.

WiseSky · October 2019

Yeah I have One Character learning all the 9 traits.

I also decided that all other alts will learn jewelry traits since it has the best return for profit.

I am still on the fence since I would only get 2% to 5% more profit... I guess I might as well.

Thanks for the Replies

redlink1979 · October 2019

@Alinhbo_Tyaka That's what I wrote: you need one char with all the traits learned: all the master writs/craftable gear are crafted by that char (the crafter who knows all traits in all crafting skills and learn all the motif pages).

@oneskygod You just need to have the crafting rank on level 5 (platinum) on jewelry crafting to receive top tier rewards. Traits research doesn't influence the reward tier.

ghastley · October 2019

I've worked on the basis of trait research essentially being free for 8 traits. Only two of my characters learned Nirnhoned, the same two that get all the motifs first. If we get duplicate motifs, they get passed down the line, rather than sold.

Jewelry is a bit different, as it's not just one trait that has an expense, and Nirncrux is a lot easier to farm than the jewel trait mats, or many of the exemplary pieces. So most of them only have 4 or 5 traits, making it necessary to think about who does the Master Writs.

However, I'm not doing it for income, so much as flexibility in build. Being able to create or improve pieces is the main objective.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · October 2019

redlink1979 wrote: »

@Alinhbo_Tyaka That's what I wrote: you need one char with all the traits learned: all the master writs/craftable gear are crafted by that char (the crafter who knows all traits in all crafting skills and learn all the motif pages).

@oneskygod You just need to have the crafting rank on level 5 (platinum) on jewelry crafting to receive top tier rewards. Traits research doesn't influence the reward tier.

Sorry the way I read it was you were implying all characters.

redlink1979 · October 2019

@Alinhbo_Tyaka No problem, bud.

pdblake · October 2019

tmbrinks wrote: »

The increase in drop rate appears to be tied to the achievements associated with both learning motifs, and for learning traits.

I didn't know that. It will come in handy next time I go on a motif shopping spree. Thanks.

Jayne_Doe · October 2019

ghastley wrote: »

I've worked on the basis of trait research essentially being free for 8 traits. Only two of my characters learned Nirnhoned, the same two that get all the motifs first. If we get duplicate motifs, they get passed down the line, rather than sold.

Jewelry is a bit different, as it's not just one trait that has an expense, and Nirncrux is a lot easier to farm than the jewel trait mats, or many of the exemplary pieces. So most of them only have 4 or 5 traits, making it necessary to think about who does the Master Writs.

However, I'm not doing it for income, so much as flexibility in build. Being able to create or improve pieces is the main objective.

I think that's a good way to look at it. Only my master crafter knows ALL traits. The others only know 8 traits. And, unless you're doing all content, jewelry research is not free. Even nirnhoned is tough, unless you farm a lot of it to make research pieces for your alts; otherwise, you're buying trait stones or research pieces from guild stores.

Also, in my experience, it's better to have more than one character doing top tier writs than just one. Even at 8 traits and little motif knowledge, I get a fair number of MWs from my alts. If all the same knowledge that improves our chances at master writs also improved our chances of getting better MWs, then I can see a case for having all traits and most motif knowledge on all characters doing MWs. As it stands now, the increased chance isn't enough to justify (in my mind) getting all characters to 100% trait/motif knowledge.

My main still learns all new motifs, eventually, as I want to be able to craft any style. And, as my master crafter, it just makes sense that she would know everything.

WiseSky · October 2019

[quote=" If all the same knowledge that improves our chances at master writs also improved our chances of getting better MWs, then I can see a case for having all traits and most motif knowledge on all characters doing MWs. .[/quote]

So right now we dont get higher chance of better MWs with more motif knowledge or knowing all traits right?

tmbrinks · October 2019

oneskygod wrote: »

If all the same knowledge that improves our chances at master writs also improved our chances of getting better MWs, then I can see a case for having all traits and most motif knowledge on all characters doing MWs.

So right now we dont get higher chance of better MWs with more motif knowledge or knowing all traits right?

Not directly.

More motif knowledge, and more traits learned increase your chance of getting master writs period.

Then it's random chance as to which master writ you get (and how much it'll be worth)

So, because you have a better chance of getting a master writ, you have a better chance of getting larger master writs.

LadySinflower · October 2019

Right now only one of my toons gets master writs but I'm working on 4 more toons. I have an order in which I pass down the motifs for them to learn. Main gets every new motif. If main knows a motif I pick up, I check #2, who gets it if she doesn't know it, and so on for #3, #4, #5. If all five know it, it goes into the guild store. I used to sell them if my main knew them, not worrying about the other four. But the bottom seems to have dropped out of motif prices. Pages that used to be with 10k-25k, I'm lucky if I can get 1k-5k for them now. Since I don't run a lot of group content I don't get many of the rarer motifs that come from dungeons or trials, and I don't PvP. I match or even discount the lowest price I find in other guild traders for a given motif page. Even then half of them come back to me as expired after 30 days. If I can't make money selling them I might as well have my toons learn them so they can start getting master writs too.

CaffeinatedMayhem · October 2019

oneskygod wrote: »

Just cant be bothered with following all the traits on 12 chars seams to much, if it would raise drop rate from 5% to 10% meaning I would only lose at max 5% of profit and as little as 2% profit difference ,except jewelry, it just dosent seam worth it...

Gert the addon Craft Store if you're on PC.

Otherwise, just put items in for research when you have it. Store any dropped gear with traits you need for 1 character and research all. Then that character crafts for the next.

It really only takes time.

WiseSky · November 2019

After personal Experience, I am learning all traits on all characters easy once you have one master crafter that knows traits.

It is noted that jewelry master writs are poop, you cant sell any over 300 gold but are good if you want to earn vouchers.

...I was expecting big bucks selling master jewelry writs jokes is on me.