Vampire Changes that i would like to see implemented. Long Post , Be Warned !!!

Memnock · April 2014

As the title mentioned , i compiled a list of changes for the vampire skill line , that ( from my point of view at least ) , would be very nice to have , if not now , maybe in a future patch , and of course after all the abilities and vampirism stage issues are fixed . The list contains the ideas i saw in other vamp related threads along with tweaks and modifications that i thought would be worth mentioning.

With that being said , here goes :

1) Drain Essence - oh god , where to beggin

) First of all , i would like to see the range of the ability increased to 28 meters , just like the rest of the ranged skills , we have the feed , which makes us go into melee range and since the vampire should be something that helps casters , it would be nice to be able to use it as a ranged skill.
- Second change for Drain , would have to be related to its use on Bosses , let us use the skills on all mobs in the game , give the bosses CC immunity for the stun from the skill , but let us use its dmg and healing effect
- Third change that i would like to see , is the ability to use it , separately from Feed AND to be able to use it multiple times on the same target . Since the game skills don't have a cool down , this could be implemented , by adding a Buff , to the target we drained , that lasts... i don't know , 20-30 seconds , then when it expires we can drain again , the buff duration is left up to the devs so as not to make the skill OP

2) Mist Form , at the moment i am not sure , if this is a bug or it is intended , but when i try to cast a control or a damage spell while under the effect of this ability , hell even a simple heavy attack , i can't do it , it does not let me do anything while under the spell's effect. The proposed change is to either have the tooltip updated to include the fact that you can't take action while under the skill's influence , or repair it to let us do stuff while the ability is active.
!!Note : I tried using destruction staff skills , and the velocious curst from the Daedric summoning tree , so i made sure that the abilities were not affected by any sort of healing , although , when i asked in game about this , no one seemed to know if it was a bug or intended , so please feel free to enlighten me in regards to this skill.

3) Vampiric Stages , with regards to this mechanic , i would suggest having it on a larget timer , 30 minutes minutes in stage one is not sufficient to just do other stuff , other than search for your next meal. Stage progression should be once every 2 hours at least so we actually reap the benefits and deal with the consequences of feeding/not feeding properly.
- Also , with regards to stages , at this particular point in time , it seems that it is actually more benefic to always be in stage 4 , since there are no upsides to constantly feeding . To this end , i would like to see that the stage timer be increased and for each stage the fire damage would be increased to be more precise , it should go like this :
stage 1
20% fire damage
20% frost resistance

stage 2
30% fire damage
30% frost resistance
-20% vampire ability cost
-20% health regen

Stage 3
40% fire damage
40% frost resistance
-40% vampire ability cost
-40% health regen

Stage 4
50% fire damage
50% frost resistance
-60% vampire ability cost
-60% health regen

!!Note , i stole this directly from a reply given by Kyubi_3002b16_ESO ( sorry for that man , but the idea is very good ), in this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/69767/am-i-the-only-one-that-thinks-feeding-as-a-vampire-is-pointless#latest

Please feel free to add other ideas that would help the skill line be more enjoyable and hopefully , with time and patience the devs , and of course , after the tree is fixed , since some skills are still bugged , we will see some of these implemented as well

Memnock · April 2014

Ah just got another idea

For Mist Form , if its not a bug , that we can't use CC or dmg skills , then it should be changed to a full damage immunity , we can't heal , we can't do damage , short timer , could be used to soak up 1-2 bigg hitters then poof , and i don't think it would be OP , since we can't actually do anything while the skill is active

Hexi · April 2014

Yeah, let's make Vampires unkillable... OP, your suggestions are absolutely ridiculous. If you want to be unkillable, go back to playing Skyrim.

ArgonianAssassin · April 2014

How do these make vampires unkillable? As it stands, drain essence is more or less, useless especially when fighting bosses, it's really only good for regening ulti in dungeons and soloing, and I agree with your suggestion to mist form, as is we should either be able to do damage from within the mist, or gain full immunity, cuz right now, we just sit there or run away, but still take damage without any way to fight back, I don't see how that is useful in anyway. Totally agreed.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO · April 2014

there should still be a benefit and a malus to running stage one or stage four because right now the game mechanics itself doesn't promote feeding at all.

In both skyrim AND oblivion fire damage raised as the vampire hunger grew but so did its power... I think we should maintain the tradition. This would make vampire able to resist fire better when stage one and in this way more able to adapt to annoying situation while stage four would increase their power but expose them to the full risk of their fire weakness. As such people would feed from time to time when they know they about to face a lot of fire based foes but would let their power grew back to stage four when they would feel safe doing so therefore becoming more powerfull yet more vulnerable again. Who in their right mind didn't let themselves reach stage 4 on purpose in oblivion when about to face a very hard dungeon they ned their full power to beat?

This cycle between power and resistance is what made vampire so versatile back in the preview elder scrolls games. Its more then legitimate that its brought back here because right now vampire save for their roleplay and to fix and reset the *** stage four bug have no reason to feed.

While I do agree with OP about the stages I don't agree about the spells. Life drains like all vampiric linking spells should always been close range, as for mist its just obvious as to why you can use ability in this form (how can mist make magical sign yell incantations or use weapon in the first place?) Altrought it would also be fine if they changed the tooltip to at least tell you cant use any other action while in mist form.

mcatchlovb16_ESO · April 2014

I think not being able to do damage in Mist form must be a bug. It is clearly a buff by description so we should still be able to cast.

Memnock · April 2014

@ArgonianAssassin , i do not think that the changes i propose are OP at all , it would just make choosing to become a vampire more interesting , since as it stands now , like many of the players believe , switching starvation ranks is pointless , you don't get any benefits and you are just gimping yourself , the loss of self regen is negligible , so by adding a system that balances the strengths of starvation with the mitigation that you would get from feeding , it would make the class much more interesting and less static

The Mist Form skill , either needs to have its tool tip updated to reflect the fact that you can't do anything while under its influence or be fixed to let us cast dmg and CC stuff. As it stands now , i regret spending a point there and i will have to respec eventually , to get it back, since i have other defensive skills that are much more useful and last longer ( lightning form comes to mind , since i am a sorc ).

Finally , Kyubi_3002b16_ESO , with regards to your comment about the Drain , i would have to say that i disagree a bit ; using your example from Skyrim and Oblivion , the drain was a ranged skill , and the feed was up close and personal , 2 separate things , unique in their own way , and with what they did , this should be represented in here as well , since in most TES games , Vampires were more arcane oriented , it would be natural that they should have spells that can be used from caster distance . As it stands now , the ability has no point other than an ultimate builder in dungeons or around the game world , if you would like to play as a pure Mage ( all ranged ) and include Vampirism in your play style.

Hexi · April 2014

Because you can already become unkillable in Mist Form if you use Lightning Cloak before you use mist form, being able to cast Impulse on top of that would mean you could just run into a 100 guys in PvP and kill them. All of them.

Drain heals you almost to full as it is. Being able to use it multiple times in addition to healing pots would be just dumb.

The only drawback right now is the fire damage and the fact that FG skills affect vampires and the fire damage can be nullified with fire resist gear easily. Adding frost resistance on top of this? LOL.

Sersiouly, I know it's not as strong as some people would like, nothing ever is, but your suggestions would mean you either become a Vampire or you stop playing the game because you would be unkillable. Just because you can't understand how to become unkillable doesn't mean it's not possible. Hell, even now on my stage 10 vamp, there is nothing anyone can do to kill me as long as I have Magicka.

Except with FG skills.

Memnock · April 2014

OK , then the tool tip needs to be changed to also mention that you can't cast or use any type of skill while in Mist Form.

With regards to Drain , i already mentioned that there would be some sort of CD implemented , like adding a buff to the target you drained so you can't do it again very soon , it can be 30 seconds , it can be a minute , i leave the calculations to the devs , as i mentioned in my original post and the drain's heal could be nerfed as well by a bit , if we would be able to use it multiple times. With that being said , i hope that you at least agree that it needs to let us apply it in PVE combat as well , in fights with Boss level mobs

With regards to the Frost resistance , it was just an idea , that Kyubi listed in one of his replies , and i thought it a good idea to give players food for thought with regards to feeding and changing starvation stages , but if it would be OP , then it could be removed from there , either way , you can't deny the fact that at this particular junction in time , feeding is pointless , other than for RP purposes.

I don't want vampires to be FOTM . As mentioned in my initial post , these are some of the ideas i gathered from these forums , that i thought would be good for the vampire skill line , i don't think the devs will take a look at this thread and say : Hey lets do all of this for the vamps in the next patch ! So i would suggest that instead of providing only the criticism and dismissal of people's ideas , maybe , if you see something that is wrong with a certain person's ideas , provide some ways to improve what was said.

P.S. Almost forgot , if anyone hasn't seen this , they should take a look , at this vid. Its with regards to the fire resistance for vamps :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLM3f2pSjXw

ArgonianAssassin · April 2014

If it's not OP to make Vampires 50% weaker to fire, it's not OP to make them 50% more resistant to frost.

Reavan · April 2014

The drain suggestions would make us unkillable, nb who can drain and feed any target would never die.
And vampire for casters only??? Lol
Drain gives hp and STAMINA and has short range go figure.

Memnock · April 2014

Reavan , please quote me where i said vampires should be for casters only. Please do that. I said that if you want to play a ranged caster play style and include vampirism stuff , you can't.

Stamina is not used only by melee and bow users , i constantly use it to replenish my magicka and HP with Dark Exchange , oh and in case you forgot , all of us use bloody stamina for dodges , blocking and stuff like in combat , soo... even magicka users need it. Not sure what was the point you were trying to make with this one.

If you want to post in someones thread , please read all of it , or go away. Also don't twist my words to suit your needs to make an argument against it .

ArgonianAssassin · April 2014

Reavan wrote: »

The drain suggestions would make us unkillable, nb who can drain and feed any target would never die.
And vampire for casters only??? Lol
Drain gives hp and STAMINA and has short range go figure.

Not if you gave it a CD like suggested. . .can only feed on the same target once every 30 seconds doesn't sound OP at all to me. After 30 seconds the target would probably dead anyways, and when I say CD I don't actually mean a Cool down on the ability itself, more like a buff for the enemy making them immune to the spell for a period of time.

Reavan · April 2014

Memnock wrote: »

Reavan , please quote me where i said vampires should be for casters only. Please do that. I said that if you want to play a ranged caster play style and include vampirism stuff , you can't.

Stamina is not used only by melee and bow users , i constantly use it to replenish my magicka and HP with Dark Exchange , oh and in case you forgot , all of us use bloody stamina for dodges , blocking and stuff like in combat , soo... even magicka users need it. Not sure what was the point you were trying to make with this one.

If you want to post in someones thread , please read all of it , or go away. Also don't twist my words to suit your needs to make an argument against it .

How about no.
Stam stackers lack the punch in melee with the ability and bow users are worse off again than casters with less damage and the range risk.
Its a very very powerful ability giving it huge range will simply make it OP.
Maybe you should think of that before posting such ideas???

More range would benefit me too but i have the clarity to see it as being ridiculous.
Vampire =/= super man.
We have issues that need resolved but not to make the subclass op.

Memnock · April 2014

So for i see no arguments or constructive criticism with regards to the ideas presented here.

With regards to the stamina users being weaker , please take a look at this vid of a sorc using Bow and 1h+shield :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s29KvfHwYqk

Also , with regards to the Bow , being a bit weaker than staves , damage wise , you need to take into account that bows are faster than staves when compared to a destro staff both with light and heavy attacks. 2H wielders have a lot of burst damage , not sure how much compared to other weapons , since there aren't parsers , but when i face them , they hurt... a lot.

With that being said , please enlighten me as to why having the skill with more range , would make it OP. This time , please provide an actual argument for it , instead of "How about no" ?

Nabren · April 2014

I was originally worried about becoming a Vampire because of all the complaining posts. However, after becoming a Vampire I feel the fire damage and Fighters Guild skill line is necessary to keep it balanced.

We can't be more powerful in one area without a weakness in another. I think Vampire has it's moments where it makes you very powerful and you pay for that when someone comes long with Silver Bolts or something similar

That said, I think if they were to fix the bugs and make a few small tweaks, I am fine with Vampire as is. I would definitely like to see the stages mean more. As it is, I just leave myself on Stage 4 without worrying about feeding ever.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO · April 2014

Memrock if you want spells from casters distance I think I have an interesting option for possible abilities right here

Telekinetic grab (did you start missing vampire lord Darth Vader mode yet?)
Summon minor gargoyle (this should do a return lol)
Bat teleport (Hey you could turn into a bat swarm and teleport forward before as a vampire lord why not add it again in the sorcerer lightning style fashion but in a vampire version)

Are we scions of the blood matron or not Zenimax

Memnock · April 2014

Heh , yeah , i am kind of missing the ability from VL to pull people and grip them , but i thought that adding more skills to the tree just now after the release , would be waranted since the gameplay style of ESO takes a while to adapt ( like i said in another post , even Skyrim had more keybinds than we get here on each weapon loadout , but i am getting used to it , although i would love 2 more skills per loadout :P )

Also , the range change to drain is something that has been in other TES games for vampires , so i don't know what prompted the decizion to shorten the distance for it , i mean , if the issue of the spell being on a virtual cooldown ( read my post above for more info ) and having 28 meter range is an issue because it heals too much and stuns at the same time, then maybe getting a little less healing , like , say , cut 25% , so instead of healing yourself of 150% of the damage done , you heal for 125% , hell lets cut it even more and make it 100% , i would be freaking ecstatic

.

Your ideas with the summon and the vampiric pull ,i was secretly hoping that we would get that at a later time , in a future expansion or patch , that has a part of its focus on Vampires and wolfs

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO · April 2014

tbh I don't see any use for a range increase when I technicaly can overtank every damage taken while draining something.

Memnock · April 2014

The use for a ranged drain would be when fighting mage and bow users , both NPC and players and you are a ranged user as well . Since i play my Sorc , as a ranged destro staff wielder with a resto staff on my second loadout for backup and support , i would prefer to include 1 vampiric dmg skill that has the range my other skills have

I am sure other ranged users , don't really feel the need to get up close and personal for a fight unless they absolutely have to , so having a ranged drain would help facilitate this for casters and bow users.

grim567 · April 2014

Memnock wrote: »

OK , then the tool tip needs to be changed to also mention that you can't cast or use any type of skill while in Mist Form.

With regards to Drain , i already mentioned that there would be some sort of CD implemented , like adding a buff to the target you drained so you can't do it again very soon , it can be 30 seconds , it can be a minute , i leave the calculations to the devs , as i mentioned in my original post and the drain's heal could be nerfed as well by a bit , if we would be able to use it multiple times. With that being said , i hope that you at least agree that it needs to let us apply it in PVE combat as well , in fights with Boss level mobs

With regards to the Frost resistance , it was just an idea , that Kyubi listed in one of his replies , and i thought it a good idea to give players food for thought with regards to feeding and changing starvation stages , but if it would be OP , then it could be removed from there , either way , you can't deny the fact that at this particular junction in time , feeding is pointless , other than for RP purposes.

I don't want vampires to be FOTM . As mentioned in my initial post , these are some of the ideas i gathered from these forums , that i thought would be good for the vampire skill line , i don't think the devs will take a look at this thread and say : Hey lets do all of this for the vamps in the next patch ! So i would suggest that instead of providing only the criticism and dismissal of people's ideas , maybe , if you see something that is wrong with a certain person's ideas , provide some ways to improve what was said.

P.S. Almost forgot , if anyone hasn't seen this , they should take a look , at this vid. Its with regards to the fire resistance for vamps :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLM3f2pSjXw

Only thing wrong with that vid is the pop up about the ui. Why would you need all that info!

Memnock · April 2014

Didn't really notice it , since at the time i was more interested with the numbers and finding solutions from people that did the testing with actual numbers ( i am kind of lazy so i like it when others do the work

) , so i can see what i can do to implement the info for my character

AlexDougherty · April 2014

Memnock wrote: »

Ah just got another idea
For Mist Form , if its not a bug , that we can't use CC or dmg skills , then it should be changed to a full damage immunity , we can't heal , we can't do damage , short timer , could be used to soak up 1-2 bigg hitters then poof , and i don't think it would be OP , since we can't actually do anything while the skill is active

This probably isn't a bug, it's based partially on an in game book (in Oblivion and Skyrim) about vampire hunting were a vampire turns into mist to escape the hunter (must be a particularly weak vampire given that the Hunter has been fed misinformation and gets eaten just after the last page).

Making it full damage immunity rather than damage mitigation might make PVP a bit one-sided (assuming you can use vampire abilities in PVP, not got that far into the game yet).

Memnock · April 2014

Then , if its not a bug , it would be nice , that in a future patch , the tooltip could be updated , so it mentioned the fact that the only action you can take under the effect of Mist Form , is to run around.