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Are MMO players spoiled by WOW?
fehu777
✭✭
Hello!
I've been playing for a few days now and following the game for much longer and time after time I see a common theme in some of the post and videos on the internet.
Players are complaining about the lack of convenience , a few examples are the size of the pvp area and the lack of numbers showing damage done.
This is interesting to me because I very much so enjoy the absence of
"spoon feeding" in ESO.
Every accomplishment feels more enjoyable and worth while because it took more effort to achieve.
In the past I have witnessed the "watering down" of games that I loved and its a sad experience to go through = (
If any reader feels that they are in opposition to this overview I would be interested in hearing you out as to why you feel this way.
Edited by fehu777 on 15 April 2014 18:00 I've been playing for a few days now and following the game for much longer and time after time I see a common theme in some of the post and videos on the internet.
Players are complaining about the lack of convenience , a few examples are the size of the pvp area and the lack of numbers showing damage done.
This is interesting to me because I very much so enjoy the absence of
"spoon feeding" in ESO.
Every accomplishment feels more enjoyable and worth while because it took more effort to achieve.
In the past I have witnessed the "watering down" of games that I loved and its a sad experience to go through = (
If any reader feels that they are in opposition to this overview I would be interested in hearing you out as to why you feel this way.
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Censorious✭✭✭✭Xrist Almighty No!
We've already heard more than enough from them.'Clever' sigs get old real fast - just like this one.6 -
Ulvich✭✭✭✭✭I played WoW for several years. I must say they do have a few good ideas that seem to work well, but for the most part their developers have become idiots. Switching to ESO is like a breath of fresh air.
Each game is going to be a bit different in it's own right. Let's just hope that ESO doesn't turn into the new WoW in terms of being "watered-down" as you put it.- BETA Group: 85 b 9
Savior of Nirn, Volendrun Vanquisher, Monster Hunter, Adventurer Across A Decade, Grand Master Crafter, Explorer,
Tamriel Skyshard Hunter, Tamriel Master Cave Delver, I Like M’aiq, Tamriel Trailblazer, Treasure Chest Hunter, Commemorative Defender,
Commemorative Conqueror, Commemorative Safebox Looter, Commemorative Pathfinder, Commemorative Skyshard Hunter, Commemorative Cave Delver, Commemorative Pathfinder, Commemorative Incursion Breaker.
- Hit hard. Hit Fast. Hit Often.12 -
It would be nice if said people actually could remember vanilla WoW on launch. TESO does have a few things it could improve, definitely, but it seems like most comments along the lines of "WoW has this! Why not TESO?!" fail to remember that a week and a half after WoW launch, no, the game did not have said feature.
But then, a lot of players are just looking for something which is WoW (with all its expansions/updates), but new and fresh and not WoW. Which isn't right or wrong, just is.
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Thete✭✭✭
In the past I have witnessed the "watering down" of games that I loved and its a sad experience to go through = (
As a response to complaints, starter areas (that whole hour of content) was truncated and what remained was made optional. Then people complained they were getting too low level for the quests ...
Today, Doshia was nerfed.
Is ESO not being watered down?MMO PvE veteran looking for suitable guild:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/72899/mmo-pve-veteran-looking-for-suitable-guild-ebonheart-pact-templar-eu#latest11 -
k9mouse✭✭✭✭✭
✭"hand holding" (or paw- holding) is bad and this one hopes ESO do not listen to those who want to "water" down ESO. Khajiit agrees with the OP, the battles and quests are more rewarding because one has to "work" at it instead of making it to easy.9 -
The "Watering down" you refer to has NOTHING to do with WoW. NOTHING.
It is though, a very fundamental and closely connected part of life and everything that is fun, popular or being experienced to the extend of ad nauseam *will* eventually wither and die.
And then...nostalgia will hit...4 -
Aett_Thorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭matthewameluxenub17_ESO wrote: »It would be nice if said people actually could remember vanilla WoW on launch. TESO does have a few things it could improve, definitely, but it seems like most comments along the lines of "WoW has this! Why not TESO?!" fail to remember that a week and a half after WoW launch, no, the game did not have said feature.
But then, a lot of players are just looking for something which is WoW (with all its expansions/updates), but new and fresh and not WoW. Which isn't right or wrong, just is.
^This. So. Much. This.
The problem with every new MMO is that it's, well...new. People come from other MMOs and wonder why it doesn't have a ton of end-game content, or a number of PvP options, or feature X or Y, when most new MMOs don't have all of those features at the start. Comparing a new game fresh from launch to a 9-year old game with 11+ years of development behind it is folly.
This game will get new content. It will get more end-game content. It will get more PvP options. It will get more X and Y and Z. But it will get these over time. People need to learn to be a bit patient with new games, and they will get to a point where they can compete with more mature games.7 -
Arreyanne✭✭✭✭Ah the glory days Vanilla WoW. Wish there was a vanilla WoW server well vanilla WoW Nov 05 not nov 04 server thank you2 -
Zagadka✭✭When the servers were down the other day I switched back to WoW... completely different games.1 -
drwoody44b14_ESO✭✭✭You want an answer to your question? Read the forums
Nerf this!
This is to hard!
This is unfair!
Remove this and add this instead!
Nerf this!
Add this so the game is more like <insert game here>
Why isnt this game more like this!
ZOS will lose me if they dont do this!
Nerf this!
Why should a player who played longer have an advantage over me!
Nerf this!19 -
amanfr01✭You mention the not showing damage indicator...
I couldn't agree with you more. I like how much this feels like less than a 'typical WoW-clone MMO' and more like an Elder Scrolls game. If they start changing it I will be a little disappointed.5 -
gonzo914Soul ShrivenYou kids complaining about the server being down and a long wait when changing areas or logging on should have seen Wow when it first came out. The server was down for the first 90 days the game was open. No one could get on whatsoever, but we didn't complain. We just paid our subscription fee each month hoping that would be the month it came back up so we could play.
For the first year, it took an entire fortnight just to log on, and I could clean my mom's entire basement in the time it took to go from one area to the next. And the lag was bloody awful. I logged on one day and took damage from a hit from the previous day.
And we didn't have those fancy animations like you have now. All we had were streams of zeroes and one, bright green lines and lines of them scrolling off the screen, and we had to compile them ourselves so we could see what was happening.
Plus, I had to walk 25 miles in the snow and sleet and freezing cold, uphill both ways, to get to the Starbucks where I could sit outside on the curb and pirate their wireless so I could log on to play.
You kids today just don't realize how good you have it.29 -
I wouldn't say "spoiled" per se, but well... this says it very well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvK8fua6O64 4 -
Arreyanne✭✭✭✭You kids complaining about the server being down and a long wait when changing areas or logging on should have seen Wow when it first came out. The server was down for the first 90 days the game was open. No one could get on whatsoever, but we didn't complain. We just paid our subscription fee each month hoping that would be the month it came back up so we could play.
For the first year, it took an entire fortnight just to log on, and I could clean my mom's entire basement in the time it took to go from one area to the next. And the lag was bloody awful. I logged on one day and took damage from a hit from the previous day.
And we didn't have those fancy animations like you have now. All we had were streams of zeroes and one, bright green lines and lines of them scrolling off the screen, and we had to compile them ourselves so we could see what was happening.
Plus, I had to walk 25 miles in the snow and sleet and freezing cold, uphill both ways, to get to the Starbucks where I could sit outside on the curb and pirate their wireless so I could log on to play.
You kids today just don't realize how good you have it.
What? I don't remember the snow!
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rawne1980b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭The one thing I do agree with people on is a combat log.
I'd like to know how I went from full health to zero in a heartbeat. I'd like to know what is hitting me in those big fights.
That isn't spoon feeding, it's letting me know what the hell is going on and who I need to hunt down for taking me up the rear.2 -
Noctique✭matthewameluxenub17_ESO wrote: »It would be nice if said people actually could remember vanilla WoW on launch. TESO does have a few things it could improve, definitely, but it seems like most comments along the lines of "WoW has this! Why not TESO?!" fail to remember that a week and a half after WoW launch, no, the game did not have said feature.
But then, a lot of players are just looking for something which is WoW (with all its expansions/updates), but new and fresh and not WoW. Which isn't right or wrong, just is.
I remember the WoW Launch, the horrible downtimes and problems it had.
I also remember it had a working chat system, a working auction house, a working bank that didn't eat items and many many other things that it did rite that recent MMOs (Pff who am i kidding AoC & WAR both were shocking at launch and they were only a few years later) SWtoR, GW2, FF XIV(Original), TESO the list goes on. Cannot for the life of them get rite.
Standard features that have become the norm do not work, the game does not function as a finished product, it runs as if it's missing simple processes that you would expect them to have nailed down.
The game as it stands is at least a year from launch.
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Hadria✭✭✭✭
Ha beat you to it!RiverWalker wrote: »I wouldn't say "spoiled" per se, but well... this says it very well.1 -
Gedalya✭✭✭✭✭I've played WoW, LOTRO, and SWTOR among others; and I feel absolutely no compulsion to request changes to the Elder Scrolls Online that mimic characteristics in other games.2 -
lol, yep, that wasn't there when I hit post, funny.portallib14_ESO wrote: »
Ha beat you to it!RiverWalker wrote: »I wouldn't say "spoiled" per se, but well... this says it very well.
it is a really good video though. it would be nice if someone came out with a proper sandbox.0 -
The only features that I can kinda agree with wow are:
Arenas, for those that want smaller scale PvP. It is in the lore (I loved the arena quest line the first time I went through it in oblivion. and seeing that in an MMO type setting would be pretty neat.)
Global AH, Since trade spam is annoying, but that is just me.( I am not saying get rid of the guild store though that I like but due to the limited nature of it and how everyone joins one to sell stuff they are kinda a mess at the moment.)
and finally I wish there were actual clothes, lounge pants if you will, that offered no statistical bonus but was just for style. (I may have missed them though, not sure...and I am not talking about light armor.)
Those things I could see changing, along with the bugs and glitches of course, everything else seems to be A Ok in my book. (but what do I know, I am only part of the unwashed masses.)1 -
BloodStorm✭✭✭
I agree 100%. I played WoW for years and all that was left was the PVP which got old also. WoW PVE never interested me and ESO actually grabs me. Finally a MMO where the PVE will suck me in. I actually hope they add a dueling system tho just for fun and of course it wont earn any rewards.I played WoW for several years. I must say they do have a few good ideas that seem to work well, but for the most part their developers have become idiots. Switching to ESO is like a breath of fresh air.
Each game is going to be a bit different in it's own right. Let's just hope that ESO doesn't turn into the new WoW in terms of being "watered-down" as you put it.
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Athika✭As a response to complaints, starter areas (that whole hour of content) was truncated and what remained was made optional. Then people complained they were getting too low level for the quests ...
Today, Doshia was nerfed.
Is ESO not being watered down?
This worries me. Doshia was not even a difficult fight. Sure, the first time I did it I wasn't entirely sure how to kill her. However, once I realized I couldn't just smack her in the face until she died, I tried something different. That's one thing I really enjoy about this game.
I sincerely hope they don't start paying too much heed to these "nerf" requests demands.
As for the starter zones... I attribute a lot of people not doing them, mostly, because they just grab quests and follow arrows and don't get to the quest to travel there until they've out-leveled it.
New players should have been sent there immediately after they do the tutorial for the first time.Edited by Athika on 15 April 2014 18:321 -
Emily✭✭✭They'll filter out eventually. Either that, or I will if they start catering to that.
Doshia also disturbed me. I'm really not a great player, but once I figured out her tactics she was dead on the floor. I really, really hope they don't nerf fights like that unless they're broken.Edited by Emily on 15 April 2014 18:337 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭You kids complaining... And the lag was bloody awful.
>>>>I logged on one day and took damage from a hit from the
previous day.<<<<
And we didn't have...... don't realize how good you have it.
I will be so sad if ESO takes any huge steps toward nerfdom and don't think it will happen. Might be famous last words but I have waited for this game for a long time and am having a BLAST. Kudo's to the Zenimax staff.
You however, gonzo914 - your post about vanilla World of Warcraft made me smile and I giggled aloud when I got to the part about where you would log in one day and take damage from a hit the previous log-in session!!!!
Wha??? That was standard fare for 1999 EQ as well ... taught the youngin's some manners and humility. Not to mention losing enough
exp to literally GO BACK A LEVEL
Every time somebody tells me to take off my rose-colored glasses, I acknowledge their point, and then I grin to myself and revel in the virtual truth of the matter *LOL.
Earn yer bones newbies, this is gameplay for those who know what playing toward a goal and satisfaction is!!!! A fabulous world to explore in, fight in, pretend in, not just grinding, not just time put in, but more than a chat room with blinking lights ^-^.
Edited by Anastasia on 15 April 2014 18:373 -
Hawtsauce✭✭✭matthewameluxenub17_ESO wrote: »It would be nice if said people actually could remember vanilla WoW on launch. TESO does have a few things it could improve, definitely, but it seems like most comments along the lines of "WoW has this! Why not TESO?!" fail to remember that a week and a half after WoW launch, no, the game did not have said feature.
But then, a lot of players are just looking for something which is WoW (with all its expansions/updates), but new and fresh and not WoW. Which isn't right or wrong, just is.
Yes WoW did not have "x" feature when it released ... 10 yrs ago.
10 yrs ago cellphone were 5 times larger, could not browse the web, DL any additional content and had antennas you had to pull out - how you think you would feel if someone tried selling you one of those cellphones today AND charged you the same monthly fee as the micro cellphones that can watch movies from netflix and browse facebook ?
- the point is yeah when i was a kid i used to have to walk to school 10 miles, up hill BOTH WAYS in the snow while carrying my little sister, blah blah.
People actually expect goods and services that are released into the market today to have certain features, would you buy a car without AC , how many people have ever owned a car without power windows or automatic transmission , as time goes by certain things just become 'standard'
Geez ... some of you guys sound like "grrrr you expect running water !?! You spoiled and lazy !!" This is a GAME , its supposed to be fun and relaxing, not a second job.
Consumers, in all areas of the free market SHOULD expect more value for their dollar, why would anyone want to pay $60 and $15 a month for a game with 10 year old features ? BTW - I am not saying ESO is 1980s Ninetendo quality
Perhaps some of the feedback isnt presented in just the right way, maybe it does sound like whining etc, yes the game is new but how will the game ever improve without feedback?Edited by Hawtsauce on 15 April 2014 18:43Ebonheart Pact
Darkmoon - Mag NB
Ermak - Mag Templar
Pukk - Stam NB
Hawtsauce - Mag DK
Mystik - Mag Sorc
Brutikus - Stam DK3 -
Azzuria✭✭✭✭✭At this point, ESO is pretty much everything I wanted it to be with the potential to be so much more. To scream and cry and throw fits because a game that's still quite literally Brand Spanking New doesn't have all the option of a game that's almost a decade old is asinine and a sure way to get your opinions, even if some of them are valid, discounted outright.
Is it perfect? Nope. I don't want to be forced to join a guild to just trade and I'm bloody well tired of zone chat being a trade channel with the occasional flame-war / pissing contest between idiots. I would love to see an AH, but if you recall, it was a big deal when WoW added linked AHs in all the cities. All things ( the devs want ) in time, my friends.
Mostly, just offer suggestions to the Devs. I'm sure somewhere in the depths of ZOS there is some poor intern who's been tasked with sorting through the hate and discontent to aggregate suggestions and ideas... poor little soul.Brunhilda Icehammer - Nord Dragonknight, 'Smith & Enchantress 'What is 'ranged? I need to hit something!!'
Laehl Direthorn - Bosmer Nightblade, Purveyor of fine Clothes, Bows and Staves
Reeza gra-Zuni - Orc Templar 'War Shaman' and Apothecary
Noemi Snowpaw - Kajiit Dragon Knight - I laugh... or I'd have to kill you.
Kitera Dreamon - Breton of The Dominion: Because those Daggers don't appreciate a great Mage.
Lysara Shadowcroft - Dunmer Bloodmage: This will only hurt a lot.5 -
Melian✭✭✭✭Yes, they are. And the thing is, no game that copies WoW could compete with it, because no one is going to leave their stable of level 90 characters, their guild, gold and achievements, to start over with nothing in a game that's exactly the same. To thrive, ESO needs to stay true to its vision; there are a lot of people who love it the way it is, and others who will, once they get used to it.Edited by Melian on 15 April 2014 18:437
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Aett_Thorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭matthewameluxenub17_ESO wrote: »It would be nice if said people actually could remember vanilla WoW on launch. TESO does have a few things it could improve, definitely, but it seems like most comments along the lines of "WoW has this! Why not TESO?!" fail to remember that a week and a half after WoW launch, no, the game did not have said feature.
But then, a lot of players are just looking for something which is WoW (with all its expansions/updates), but new and fresh and not WoW. Which isn't right or wrong, just is.
Yes WoW did not have "x" feature when it released ... 10 yrs ago.
10 yrs ago cellphone were 5 times larger, could not browse the web, DL any additional content and had antennas you had to pull out - how you think you would feel if someone tried selling you one of those cellphones today AND charged you the same monthly fee as the micro cellphones that can watch movies from netflix and browse facebook ?
Really kind of a bad analogy, since most phones are being developed by companies that have been making phones for a long time, and are basically just building on the previous versions. It would be like if they released WoW2 and it was the same game with a few new races and features in it, versus starting over from scratch to make a brand new game. If even Blizzard did that, the game would not have ALL of the features that current WoW has right off the bat.
Most new companies when they come about have to actually charge more for their innovations in order to recoup the cost of having to build everything from scratch versus just tweaking some code here and there to handle a slightly different interface. Look at Tesla...new car company, offering something completely different, but they only exist in certain markets and the cars are decently more expensive than other companies' cars for roughly the same product. Compare that to Toyota or something where they can just alter a few curves of the car and announce a "brand new model!" even though very little has changed.3
