Pahmar-raht - Not always tiger-striped?

DerAlleinTiger · August 2019

So ever since Elsweyr released I have been a little frustrated with how ZOS decided to interpret the Pahmar/Pahmar-raht. I love how absolutely massive they are, showing off the huge differences in the Khajiit breeds. However, I've always felt that it's a really odd interpretation of "tiger-like" to make them giant bipeds that only have tiger stripes. Regardless, I'll go with it. Or I was going with it, until I read the new tablet for the Hall of the Lunar Champion from the Scalebreaker dungeons. Khunzar-ri's Guile. I'll avoid most of the spoilers here and focus in on the main thing that caught my eye. It is revealed that Khunzar-ri was a Pahmar-raht. Not only is he called "Pahmar-kin" by a character, the story itself calls him Pahmar-raht. However, his nickname is the "Laughing Lion." Now, that would be a rather odd nickname for a Khajiit with tiger stripes. One could say it's just Khajiit being weird and ironic, but I would rather not just dismiss it with a cheap excuse.

Presuming his nickname is related to his fur coloration/pattern (or lack thereof), does this now mean that Pahmar-raht are NOT all tiger-striped? In-game we see them as only being tiger-striped, which I presume is ZOS's one way of linking them to the old lore saying they were "tiger-like." But with this, it would mean that they are actually capable of having all the other fur patterns/colorations Khajiit have? I would actually rather like that, as the lack of different fur colorations and patterns has felt very... odd to me, as in theory it means two all-white Khajiit parents could wind up with a bright orange tiger-striped Pahmar-raht son or daughter. That just seems really off from what we've been shown in-game so far where children tend to share their coloration and patterns with their parents. I get that ZOS was originally trying to link them to the old lore of "tiger-like" but if you ask me they kind of tossed that out the window when they made them bipeds instead of quadrupeds as the old lore implied (it was also said they were similar to Senche).

So if this is a change towards Pahmar-raht having different patterns then I'm actually all for it!

DerAlleinTiger · August 2019

I just remembered after I posted that we actually have a few depictions of Khunzar-ri from the Halls of Colossus! And he does, indeed, appear to be a lion.

(Not my images, I just found them after a quick search.)

Ignoring the digitigrade feet, which just make my head spin with the numerous contradictions and vagaries within the lore... If this depiction of Khunzar-ri is presumed to be accurate (which there isn't much reason to not assume such) and the description of him on the tablets is presumed to be accurate (which there isn't much reason to not assume such either) then that would leave us with the notion that Pahmar-raht are NOT all tiger-striped. Very curious.

Would it be possible to get any sort of solid confirmation on this?

Aliyavana · August 2019

Khunzar-ri is a hero and thus legends are spun to bring him up as a mystical and ideal figure. We probably would imagine a person the size and strength of a Pahmer-raht as a person that helped defeat Dragons. Firstly, his legs conflict with the Pahmar-rahts for one, thus making it unbelievable that he is a pahmer-raht.

It seems like furstock descriptions are just what are the dominant traits for a furstock, and its possible that furstocks can sometimes rarely have traits present in other furstocks. For example, there is a cathay-raht who has a pattern comparable to a panther's, and doesn't fit the description of a jaguar-man that the imperials described. The Dagi for example resemble lynxes, but cathay can also have lynx beards and lynx tufts so that is one theory.

Robo_Hobo · August 2019

Yeah I'd like if they could just step away and show that Pahmar-raht can have other fur patterns besides stripes, it does feel weird. Although, they can have different colors - they don't always have to be orange, there's some other colored Pahmar-rahts in-game.

It's strange that they feel obliged to follow that specific trait so much, considering that the text that says that about Pahmar/Pahmar-raht implied that they were quarduped (because it said the Senche is like the Pahmar-raht but bigger, and we know Senche is quadruped), and that Alfiq couldn't talk (or at least not common).

They're okay with changing things from that text (which I'm okay with two, it was an ancient out-of-game developer in-character forum post RP after all) by making Alfiq talk and Pahmar bipedal, and Senche-raht not nearly as big, but suddenly making Pahmar not have Tiger stripes is too much?

FabresFour · August 2019

It's not just ZOS, bethesda in general seems to have done a retcon with Pahmar and Pahmar-Raht, considering that this one is a Pahmar-Raht in Legends:

the original pahmar were quadrupedes, right?

DrowElfMorwen · August 2019

I just wish I could play a Pahmar-Raht.

I also know of a player who somehow--and he won't tell how!--he actually makes his avatar the size of a Pahmar-Raht! I don't know at all how he does it and I wish I did!

DrowElfMorwen · August 2019

Okay, after a night of sleep, I came up with something: I think Kunzar-ri is from Pellitine, not Anequina, where I suspect Pahmar-rahts are more likely to be lion-looking than tiger looking. I and some other Khajiit fans highly suspect we will see different (more) khajiit breeds than the ones we see in Anequina. I hope this is the case!