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Equality of bleeding?
Sun7dance
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Bleeding damage will now be adjusted to all other types of damage (except oblivion damage)?
So will we get a new status effect for it? Would be just fair, or not?
Magicka:
Ice --> check!
Flame --> check!
Shock --> check!
Stamina:
Poison --> check!
Desease --> check!
Bleeding --> ?
Bleeding glyphe would be nice too!
Edited by Sun7dance on 12 July 2019 23:27 So will we get a new status effect for it? Would be just fair, or not?
Magicka:
Ice --> check!
Flame --> check!
Shock --> check!
Stamina:
Poison --> check!
Desease --> check!
Bleeding --> ?
Bleeding glyphe would be nice too!
PS5|EU
10
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validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bleed is physical DoT. Nothing more.
Fire, lightning, ice are all magic DOTs nothing more.
The fact its called bleed is significant. It means it can be effected by certain sets and skills unique to bleeds.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade5 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭welp when every other damage type have its own status then yea, why not add it also to bleed? like well...you are bleeding...so you have open wound yes? wouldnt you have chance to be more vulnerable by this with open wound? like from poison you get poisoned, disease made you sick and so your healing taken is lowered by this3 -
soynegroyque✭✭✭Oh where is this bleeding enchantment?
Bleeding is not like fire/ice/shock or poison/disease.
Bleeds are not a type of damage unlike all all other "elements".0 -
soynegroyque✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »
Those are not dots. Those are damage types.
And if we are going to talk status effects.
Burning applies a 6second dot
Chilled applies minor main (not a dot)
Concussed applies minor vulnerability (not a dot)
Poisoned, 6second dot
Diseased minor defile (also not a dot)
Bleeds dont get affected by charged as it isnt a status effect.Edited by soynegroyque on 13 July 2019 08:505 -
kalunte✭✭✭✭✭well, since bleed isnt the status effect of physical dmg (which it could be actually, but it's far too late for this) maybe physical dmg themselves could finally have a status effect bound to it? some 4sec-ish minor debuff
here is a short-list of available minors debuffs:
minor mangle
minor maim
minor fracture
thinknig a bit deeper made me realize that magic dmg dont have "status" effect neither.
i think minor breach would fit greatly to it, alongside with minor fracture for physical dmg. iirc those two debuffs are only available from power of the light (stamplar skill) for both minor breach/fracture, focused aim (minor fracture only), handmade poisons and probably a few unused sets which makes those debuff extremly rare.
what about it?
Edited by kalunte on 13 July 2019 10:192 -
TankHealz2015✭✭✭
Yeah, if bleed is now gonna be just like the other DoTs, it should get some sort of secondary effect...
But what should it be?
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Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭bleed dots are way stronger than the secondary dots of fire/shock/ice if I recall correctly. If this is the case, a secondary effect for bleeds would be way too overtuned2
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Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭
yes but still they tick for way higher damage and are roughly buffed to take into account the resistances. I didnt go on pts to test them but Im pretty convinced the damage doesnt even closely compare to the elemtal dots2 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not every damage type applies status effects. Bleeds are the physical equivalent to magic damage DoTs - and the latter don't have a side effect either.Edited by Rianai on 13 July 2019 12:023 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »
That's a lie. They all proc potent status effects.Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bleeding should cause a status effect for Minor Infection.
While suffering from Minor Infection, you become sluggish and your movement speed is reduced by 5(10?)%. Additionally this effect will spread to any ally in the area already bleeding.
Germs are bad!3 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭brandonv516 wrote: »Bleeding should cause a status effect for Minor Infection.
While suffering from Minor Infection, you become sluggish and your movement speed is reduced by 5(10?)%. Additionally this effect will spread to any ally in the area already bleeding.
Germs are bad!
Why not except frost does this already. How about swapping frost and make it immobile and minor maim and then make this one a 25% snare only. As you are hurt and would be clinging to life.Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions0 -
VoidParticle✭✭Magic damage has direct damage and a DoT. (see Inner Fire + Synergy)
Physical damage has direct damage and a DoT (see trap beast) ---- This is not a bleed! It's a physical DoT!
Because bleeding has changed (mitigation accounted) there either needs to be a new direct damage equivalent which is HIGHLY unlikely because it doesn't make sense and you'd have to throw it on random abilities that already exist OR...
Bleeding should take the place of the secondary effect proc'd off Physical damage.
Now you must be thinking... "What's the difference between this and poison"? Nothing! The differences will be in what sets do with each effect (Dro'zakar's Claws) or what passive abilities do (Combustion) with each effect. Already right there you have 2 identities. One is about regen and the other is about proc'd damage increases. Or let bleeds be the only secondary that stacks on itself with a separate timer for each stack and significantly less damage.
If you do this ZOS, just make Axes apply a similar effect to charged trait but specifically for bleeding, and preferably by a largish margin. You'd want to make bleed chance lower if it stacks.
Also to keep Dro'zakar's Claws set viable you could change it to give like 25 WD whenever bleed procs (still tied WD increase per enemy or else Cleave/Carve would be insane). Abilities that already give bleed could work like the Snipe morph Lethal Arrow where they give the poison effect 100% of the time. If you want to remove the chance for bleeding to proc off an ability you could change the damage type to poison, disease, or state it can not bleed, or make a mechanic to abilities that inhibits bleeding (since so many abilities do physical damage).
Btw I love the flavor where vampires have nothing bleed damage related...1 -
VoidParticle✭✭Not every damage type applies status effects. Bleeds are the physical equivalent to magic damage DoTs - and the latter don't have a side effect either.
Before this PTS bleeds were not the physical damage equivalent to magic DoTs as they were not mitigated by resistances.
Now that they are we're almost in the same boat, but again... physical damage dots exist that are NOT bleeds. So physical damage over time is actually the equivalent to magic damage over time.
For Stamina damage types each has at least a DoT:- Poison, Poison over time, Poisoned*
- Disease, Disease over time, Major Defile
- Physical, Physical over time, (nothing)
- (nothing), Bleed, (nothing but used to be no mitigation to it's own damage type)
Physical damage now has 4 DoTs with 3 direct damage types and 2 with no effects.
If Bleed took the place of physical DoT, we'd go down to 3, Poison could get a nice effect of stamina return instead of a DoT (magicka DoT could get magicka return) and bleed could be low base damage but have no limit on stacks. For balance sake let burning work similarly.Edited by VoidParticle on 14 July 2019 04:263 -
VoidParticle✭✭Here is how I believe ESO is now:
(On Live servers bleed's secondary could be considered its 100% physical penetration, but now it's not so I left it N/A.)
Here is one possibility:
Here is the one I also like:
I personally think Bleed needs it's own damage type as converting bleed to a physical status effect
just proves magicka statuses are WAY more useful. Giving pierce/bleed a debuff secondary effect instead of bleed being the secondary effect is IMO much better.
Edited by VoidParticle on 14 July 2019 10:034 -
Vortigaunt✭✭✭It’s a physical damage type dot, same as magic damage dots.
You have fire, frost and ice damage, but you also have MAGIC damage, which has no status effect but gets buffed by warmaiden.
Same with stamina, you have poison and disease, but you also have BLEED damage, which has no status effect but does physical damage and gets buffed by automaton.
If anything we need a 3rd stamina status effect. The bleed damage is fine and is in like with magic damage dots.1 -
mikey_reach✭✭✭Bleed is physical DoT. Nothing more.
Bleed is on the physical spectrum of things yes but to call it a physical dot is a little vauge, for example rending slashes, passives those are bleeds. And then there are the actual physical dots for example dawnbreaker, alkosh those are physical dots usually being weaker than bleeds. So there is a slight difference.Edited by mikey_reach on 14 July 2019 11:354 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭On the pts bleeds are physical dots.
Wheter you like it or not is irrelevant.
Magicka has magic dmg which doesnt have a status effect , stamina has pyhsical which doesnt have a status effect.
Yes mag has 1 extra status effect overall, so what.
Not everything in the game has to be perfectly equal on stam/mag side.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭New status effect for bleed is already there and it's simply higher damage tooltip then it was. That is why in new patch notes they increased tooltips or ticking speed of every bleed damage DoT.0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭New status effect for bleed is already there and it's simply higher damage tooltip then it was. That is why in new patch notes they increased tooltips or ticking speed of every bleed damage DoT.
Except the Blackrose Bow.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
Sun7dance✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭On the pts bleeds are physical dots.
Wheter you like it or not is irrelevant.
Magicka has magic dmg which doesnt have a status effect , stamina has pyhsical which doesnt have a status effect.
Yes mag has 1 extra status effect overall, so what.
Not everything in the game has to be perfectly equal on stam/mag side.
ZOS is currently trying to make everything equal, but this thing should be ignored then?
When zenimax adjusted the dual wield glyphs, they already forgot that you need more alloys to make your weapons gold.
Now they forgot the secondary effect, so what next?
If you want to adjust everything, then please do it correct and consequent! Otherwise you will get a new unbalance in the future!
Edited by Sun7dance on 14 July 2019 14:29PS5|EU1 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭The thing is that status effects are tied to certain damage types and bleeds are not really a separate dmg type. They are physical damage. The ability to ignore resistences was not a status effect and not tied to the dmg type. Now you could argue that stam builds should get a 4th damage type, because magicka has 4 different damage types too. However changing all bleeds into a new damage type and adding an additional effect wouldn't be balanced either, because bleeds are much more accesssible than elemenal damage, which was the main issue to begin with.
It would be ok if some bleed skills are changed into a new damage type and get something in addition. But some bleeds should just stay regular physical DoTs.0 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭Suggestion 1 doesn’t make sense as magic damage also has no status effect. Bleeds should have its own status effect, minor fracture seems fine compared to minor main/vulnerability for elemental status effects0
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Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭However changing all bleeds into a new damage type and adding an additional effect wouldn't be balanced either, because bleeds are much more accesssible than elemenal damage
Elemental damage is absolutely more accessible than bleeds. All of the Desto Staff skills deal elemental damage. DK, Sorc and Warden all have elemental damage in their class toolkits. There are only two actve skills which cause bleed and three passive bleeds available in the whole game.
With the current rework I see no reason why bleed shouldn't be turned into the third damage sub-type for physical damage and operate under the same ruleset (minor additional effect, glyphs and so on) as all other sub-types.
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