Vortigaunt wrote: »

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Obviously the oblivion foe set needs to be tuned back.

Hell, no. Oblivion's Foe is not what makes this combo overpowered. It's obviously the VMA set which is TWICE as strong as Balorgh which requires you to spend 500 Ultimate.

If anything needs a nerf, it's the ridiculously overpowered VMA Dual Wield set!

So a set that gives 1k WD to an ability is OP, but a set that doubles the ability's damage outright is not? ^^

Not when the ability in question is not that strong per second. If this set doubled then damage of Crystal Frags or Assassin's Will, then there would be a problem.

??? 10k per second isn’t strong?

No its not, even more considering that in pvp it can be purged, and in pve you would sacrifice strenght to your other skills to obtain that tooltip on only 1 skill. In the end it'll be balanced, since your other skils will be weaker if you really want that op soultrap.

Buddy bleeds were ticking for ~2k per second and were considered op. This ticks for bloody 10k. Even after resistances this is far more than 2k lol

You're talking about bleed ticks unbuffed in pvp compaired to a normal dot that isnt unbuffed by pvp. That number would drasticly decrease in pvp. Also, as I mentionned, you'll need to slot 5 armor/weapons pieces for that, losing a 5-pieces bonus for every other skills you have. That's huge. Lets pretend you're a stam dps using perfect relequen and AY (because lokke will see less gameplay with the nerfs to orbs), now you're gonna have to drop one of these sets, drasticly decreasing the dammage output of all your other skills. In that situation you'll either lose that big Crit chance bonus or that big dammage stacking from rele, all to get a bonus on 1 single skill. A great bonus I admit, but overall (of course it'll need further testing) I think it'll balance itself.

Just take oblivion's foe out of the game. You don't need it any more because they have buffed the spell 500%. Soul Trap is not "Soul Trap" any more. It is something new and different.

Why is the "AOE do 33% less damage" rule not applying to the multi-target morph of soul trap?

All in all, it looks like all my necromancer and stam sorc shortcomings are being fixed outside the class kits...

Oblivions foe + deadly strike + slime craw

same sets but with Balorgh

Most_Awesome wrote: »

same sets but with Balorgh

I saw someone post a 100k tooltip in another thread before, did make me laugh.

Also someone mentioned it's unblockable/ undodgable? Can't really test it myself though.

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Obviously the oblivion foe set needs to be tuned back.

Hell, no. Oblivion's Foe is not what makes this combo overpowered. It's obviously the VMA set which is TWICE as strong as Balorgh which requires you to spend 500 Ultimate.

If anything needs a nerf, it's the ridiculously overpowered VMA Dual Wield set!

So a set that gives 1k WD to an ability is OP, but a set that doubles the ability's damage outright is not? ^^

Not when the ability in question is not that strong per second. If this set doubled then damage of Crystal Frags or Assassin's Will, then there would be a problem.

??? 10k per second isn’t strong?

No its not, even more considering that in pvp it can be purged, and in pve you would sacrifice strenght to your other skills to obtain that tooltip on only 1 skill. In the end it'll be balanced, since your other skils will be weaker if you really want that op soultrap.

Buddy bleeds were ticking for ~2k per second and were considered op. This ticks for bloody 10k. Even after resistances this is far more than 2k lol

You're talking about bleed ticks unbuffed in pvp compaired to a normal dot that isnt unbuffed by pvp. That number would drasticly decrease in pvp. Also, as I mentionned, you'll need to slot 5 armor/weapons pieces for that, losing a 5-pieces bonus for every other skills you have. That's huge. Lets pretend you're a stam dps using perfect relequen and AY (because lokke will see less gameplay with the nerfs to orbs), now you're gonna have to drop one of these sets, drasticly decreasing the dammage output of all your other skills. In that situation you'll either lose that big Crit chance bonus or that big dammage stacking from rele, all to get a bonus on 1 single skill. A great bonus I admit, but overall (of course it'll need further testing) I think it'll balance itself.

I don’t think you seen to grasp what an ability with a 100k+ tooltip (if cheesed correctly) can do to pvp. This is a dot, not a spammable. You can do other things as this dot ticks, like idk INCAP FOR 20% MORE DAMAGE????? How about you’re getting chased by a Zerg and get 2 of these dropped on you? I get 2 cripples dropped on me and I’m like sure, whatever. Those cripples have a 15k tooltip outside of cyro. This has 72k.

Again, pve might be one sided but pvp is not. It’s like you people are just arguing for the sake of disagreeing with whatever is being brought up.

I dont think you realise that a tooltip means nothing. To achieve that tooltip, some had to equip 3 dammage boosting sets (probably clever alchemist, oblivion foe and the maelstrom dual wield set) and obviously, using those sets in pvp would make you vulnerable as ***, as you wouldnt have any kind of mitigation built in your sets. To have that tooltip, you have to get close enough to the person, and land your rapid strikes, then, you have to pop your potion for clever alchemist to pop in, then you have to pop soul trap. Chances are, you're already dead, cause you've been equiping medium armors to get more dammage on your beautiful tooltip. If not? I can purge, and then kill you cause you've been so centered on creating your big tooltip that you actually didnt realised it was situationnal in pvp at best.

It would be at max 50k tooltip over the duration in pvp, ONLY if you would use oblivion foes, MA DW and a dammage boosting situationnal set such as clever alchemist, with medium armors for max weapon dammage. Without those set, the tooltip would decrease to 20-30k at best. After resistance, that would be around 1-2k max per tick. Which is more than fine.

To have that juicy tooltip, you'd have to be so vulnerable that 9 time out of 10 you'd die without applying it, and the 10th time the person would purge it, letting you vulnerable for nothing. You really are panicking over nothing.

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Obviously the oblivion foe set needs to be tuned back.

Hell, no. Oblivion's Foe is not what makes this combo overpowered. It's obviously the VMA set which is TWICE as strong as Balorgh which requires you to spend 500 Ultimate.

If anything needs a nerf, it's the ridiculously overpowered VMA Dual Wield set!

So a set that gives 1k WD to an ability is OP, but a set that doubles the ability's damage outright is not? ^^

Not when the ability in question is not that strong per second. If this set doubled then damage of Crystal Frags or Assassin's Will, then there would be a problem.

??? 10k per second isn’t strong?

No its not, even more considering that in pvp it can be purged, and in pve you would sacrifice strenght to your other skills to obtain that tooltip on only 1 skill. In the end it'll be balanced, since your other skils will be weaker if you really want that op soultrap.

Buddy bleeds were ticking for ~2k per second and were considered op. This ticks for bloody 10k. Even after resistances this is far more than 2k lol

You're talking about bleed ticks unbuffed in pvp compaired to a normal dot that isnt unbuffed by pvp. That number would drasticly decrease in pvp. Also, as I mentionned, you'll need to slot 5 armor/weapons pieces for that, losing a 5-pieces bonus for every other skills you have. That's huge. Lets pretend you're a stam dps using perfect relequen and AY (because lokke will see less gameplay with the nerfs to orbs), now you're gonna have to drop one of these sets, drasticly decreasing the dammage output of all your other skills. In that situation you'll either lose that big Crit chance bonus or that big dammage stacking from rele, all to get a bonus on 1 single skill. A great bonus I admit, but overall (of course it'll need further testing) I think it'll balance itself.

I don’t think you seen to grasp what an ability with a 100k+ tooltip (if cheesed correctly) can do to pvp. This is a dot, not a spammable. You can do other things as this dot ticks, like idk INCAP FOR 20% MORE DAMAGE????? How about you’re getting chased by a Zerg and get 2 of these dropped on you? I get 2 cripples dropped on me and I’m like sure, whatever. Those cripples have a 15k tooltip outside of cyro. This has 72k.

Again, pve might be one sided but pvp is not. It’s like you people are just arguing for the sake of disagreeing with whatever is being brought up.

I dont think you realise that a tooltip means nothing. To achieve that tooltip, some had to equip 3 dammage boosting sets (probably clever alchemist, oblivion foe and the maelstrom dual wield set) and obviously, using those sets in pvp would make you vulnerable as ***, as you wouldnt have any kind of mitigation built in your sets. To have that tooltip, you have to get close enough to the person, and land your rapid strikes, then, you have to pop your potion for clever alchemist to pop in, then you have to pop soul trap. Chances are, you're already dead, cause you've been equiping medium armors to get more dammage on your beautiful tooltip. If not? I can purge, and then kill you cause you've been so centered on creating your big tooltip that you actually didnt realised it was situationnal in pvp at best.

It would be at max 50k tooltip over the duration in pvp, ONLY if you would use oblivion foes, MA DW and a dammage boosting situationnal set such as clever alchemist, with medium armors for max weapon dammage. Without those set, the tooltip would decrease to 20-30k at best. After resistance, that would be around 1-2k max per tick. Which is more than fine.

To have that juicy tooltip, you'd have to be so vulnerable that 9 time out of 10 you'd die without applying it, and the 10th time the person would purge it, letting you vulnerable for nothing. You really are panicking over nothing.

Ey, Just throw on pirate skele and i'm suddenly tanky, can use something like spriggans and even without msa dw can still hit 60-70k tooltips.

Oblivion foe needs adjusting basically. Also i'm not saying this may be insane solo build, but in a group or zerg the ability to throw on a dot ticking on people for 4-5k is insane.


Also don't forget this is every second, literally dots that people know today tick for 2s, bleeds, injection etc...

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Glory wrote: »

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Obviously the oblivion foe set needs to be tuned back.

Hell, no. Oblivion's Foe is not what makes this combo overpowered. It's obviously the VMA set which is TWICE as strong as Balorgh which requires you to spend 500 Ultimate.

If anything needs a nerf, it's the ridiculously overpowered VMA Dual Wield set!

So a set that gives 1k WD to an ability is OP, but a set that doubles the ability's damage outright is not? ^^

Not when the ability in question is not that strong per second. If this set doubled then damage of Crystal Frags or Assassin's Will, then there would be a problem.

??? 10k per second isn’t strong?

No its not, even more considering that in pvp it can be purged, and in pve you would sacrifice strenght to your other skills to obtain that tooltip on only 1 skill. In the end it'll be balanced, since your other skils will be weaker if you really want that op soultrap.

Buddy bleeds were ticking for ~2k per second and were considered op. This ticks for bloody 10k. Even after resistances this is far more than 2k lol

You're talking about bleed ticks unbuffed in pvp compaired to a normal dot that isnt unbuffed by pvp. That number would drasticly decrease in pvp. Also, as I mentionned, you'll need to slot 5 armor/weapons pieces for that, losing a 5-pieces bonus for every other skills you have. That's huge. Lets pretend you're a stam dps using perfect relequen and AY (because lokke will see less gameplay with the nerfs to orbs), now you're gonna have to drop one of these sets, drasticly decreasing the dammage output of all your other skills. In that situation you'll either lose that big Crit chance bonus or that big dammage stacking from rele, all to get a bonus on 1 single skill. A great bonus I admit, but overall (of course it'll need further testing) I think it'll balance itself.

I don’t think you seen to grasp what an ability with a 100k+ tooltip (if cheesed correctly) can do to pvp. This is a dot, not a spammable. You can do other things as this dot ticks, like idk INCAP FOR 20% MORE DAMAGE????? How about you’re getting chased by a Zerg and get 2 of these dropped on you? I get 2 cripples dropped on me and I’m like sure, whatever. Those cripples have a 15k tooltip outside of cyro. This has 72k.

Again, pve might be one sided but pvp is not. It’s like you people are just arguing for the sake of disagreeing with whatever is being brought up.

I dont think you realise that a tooltip means nothing. To achieve that tooltip, some had to equip 3 dammage boosting sets (probably clever alchemist, oblivion foe and the maelstrom dual wield set) and obviously, using those sets in pvp would make you vulnerable as ***, as you wouldnt have any kind of mitigation built in your sets. To have that tooltip, you have to get close enough to the person, and land your rapid strikes, then, you have to pop your potion for clever alchemist to pop in, then you have to pop soul trap. Chances are, you're already dead, cause you've been equiping medium armors to get more dammage on your beautiful tooltip. If not? I can purge, and then kill you cause you've been so centered on creating your big tooltip that you actually didnt realised it was situationnal in pvp at best.

It would be at max 50k tooltip over the duration in pvp, ONLY if you would use oblivion foes, MA DW and a dammage boosting situationnal set such as clever alchemist, with medium armors for max weapon dammage. Without those set, the tooltip would decrease to 20-30k at best. After resistance, that would be around 1-2k max per tick. Which is more than fine.

To have that juicy tooltip, you'd have to be so vulnerable that 9 time out of 10 you'd die without applying it, and the 10th time the person would purge it, letting you vulnerable for nothing. You really are panicking over nothing.

While I agree that requiring someone to slot 2 specialized sets (OF/VMA), and that testing the extremes != an actually realistic build, I think this set interaction warrants looking into.

It's similar to when people were stacking oblivion damage: 1 oblivion set wasn't super oppressive, but the nature of the mechanics stacking together (Sload + KS + enchant, etc.) became oppressive and thus warranted a review of how certain things combined play together.

I agree, but compairing oblivion dammage that cannot be blocked, shielded, mitigated in any ways to a dot that can be purged isn't realistic. If it comes to this, and someone find a way to exploit it, which I doubt, then maybe it'd be worth looking into. But as it is, I really don't think its as menacing as people are trying to make it. We still have 4 weeks of testing ahead of us, we'll see if its abused or not. I personally think that it wont be as much as people are thinking.

Don't forget the skill isn't exactly just a single dot either, it's hits at least 2 targets and will restore 20% resources if they die with one morph and hits 3 ppl total with another. Both great morphs.

It also has a 28m range so won't be hard to apply. Works for both magicka and stamina so everyone has access to it.

Even without vma weps and on a generic pvp set just with foe backbar for it you can get 60k tooltip. 6k dot a second tooltip.

Then if you think about bar space, its strong enough there to hit as hard as 3x different dots for 1 skill. Lots of pressure and lots of utility and isn't wholly single target.

Looks like it could be one of those things that is strong one at a time but stupid if more than 1 person uses it, like sloads etc...

Oliwaltony wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Glory wrote: »

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Obviously the oblivion foe set needs to be tuned back.

Hell, no. Oblivion's Foe is not what makes this combo overpowered. It's obviously the VMA set which is TWICE as strong as Balorgh which requires you to spend 500 Ultimate.

If anything needs a nerf, it's the ridiculously overpowered VMA Dual Wield set!

So a set that gives 1k WD to an ability is OP, but a set that doubles the ability's damage outright is not? ^^

Not when the ability in question is not that strong per second. If this set doubled then damage of Crystal Frags or Assassin's Will, then there would be a problem.

??? 10k per second isn’t strong?

No its not, even more considering that in pvp it can be purged, and in pve you would sacrifice strenght to your other skills to obtain that tooltip on only 1 skill. In the end it'll be balanced, since your other skils will be weaker if you really want that op soultrap.

Buddy bleeds were ticking for ~2k per second and were considered op. This ticks for bloody 10k. Even after resistances this is far more than 2k lol

You're talking about bleed ticks unbuffed in pvp compaired to a normal dot that isnt unbuffed by pvp. That number would drasticly decrease in pvp. Also, as I mentionned, you'll need to slot 5 armor/weapons pieces for that, losing a 5-pieces bonus for every other skills you have. That's huge. Lets pretend you're a stam dps using perfect relequen and AY (because lokke will see less gameplay with the nerfs to orbs), now you're gonna have to drop one of these sets, drasticly decreasing the dammage output of all your other skills. In that situation you'll either lose that big Crit chance bonus or that big dammage stacking from rele, all to get a bonus on 1 single skill. A great bonus I admit, but overall (of course it'll need further testing) I think it'll balance itself.

I don’t think you seen to grasp what an ability with a 100k+ tooltip (if cheesed correctly) can do to pvp. This is a dot, not a spammable. You can do other things as this dot ticks, like idk INCAP FOR 20% MORE DAMAGE????? How about you’re getting chased by a Zerg and get 2 of these dropped on you? I get 2 cripples dropped on me and I’m like sure, whatever. Those cripples have a 15k tooltip outside of cyro. This has 72k.

Again, pve might be one sided but pvp is not. It’s like you people are just arguing for the sake of disagreeing with whatever is being brought up.

I dont think you realise that a tooltip means nothing. To achieve that tooltip, some had to equip 3 dammage boosting sets (probably clever alchemist, oblivion foe and the maelstrom dual wield set) and obviously, using those sets in pvp would make you vulnerable as ***, as you wouldnt have any kind of mitigation built in your sets. To have that tooltip, you have to get close enough to the person, and land your rapid strikes, then, you have to pop your potion for clever alchemist to pop in, then you have to pop soul trap. Chances are, you're already dead, cause you've been equiping medium armors to get more dammage on your beautiful tooltip. If not? I can purge, and then kill you cause you've been so centered on creating your big tooltip that you actually didnt realised it was situationnal in pvp at best.

It would be at max 50k tooltip over the duration in pvp, ONLY if you would use oblivion foes, MA DW and a dammage boosting situationnal set such as clever alchemist, with medium armors for max weapon dammage. Without those set, the tooltip would decrease to 20-30k at best. After resistance, that would be around 1-2k max per tick. Which is more than fine.

To have that juicy tooltip, you'd have to be so vulnerable that 9 time out of 10 you'd die without applying it, and the 10th time the person would purge it, letting you vulnerable for nothing. You really are panicking over nothing.

While I agree that requiring someone to slot 2 specialized sets (OF/VMA), and that testing the extremes != an actually realistic build, I think this set interaction warrants looking into.

It's similar to when people were stacking oblivion damage: 1 oblivion set wasn't super oppressive, but the nature of the mechanics stacking together (Sload + KS + enchant, etc.) became oppressive and thus warranted a review of how certain things combined play together.

I agree, but compairing oblivion dammage that cannot be blocked, shielded, mitigated in any ways to a dot that can be purged isn't realistic. If it comes to this, and someone find a way to exploit it, which I doubt, then maybe it'd be worth looking into. But as it is, I really don't think its as menacing as people are trying to make it. We still have 4 weeks of testing ahead of us, we'll see if its abused or not. I personally think that it wont be as much as people are thinking.

Don't forget the skill isn't exactly just a single dot either, it's hits at least 2 targets and will restore 20% resources if they die with one morph and hits 3 ppl total with another. Both great morphs.

It also has a 28m range so won't be hard to apply. Works for both magicka and stamina so everyone has access to it.

Even without vma weps and on a generic pvp set just with foe backbar for it you can get 60k tooltip. 6k dot a second tooltip.

Then if you think about bar space, its strong enough there to hit as hard as 3x different dots for 1 skill. Lots of pressure and lots of utility and isn't wholly single target.

Looks like it could be one of those things that is strong one at a time but stupid if more than 1 person uses it, like sloads etc...

That 60k tooltip without vma would be in pve. In pvp it'd be a 30k tooltip.

Yeah but i was looking at tooltip to compare it to other things, most build have like 9-10k on their spamable tooltips and this would be near 6k per second for 10s for one skill.

Oliwaltony wrote: »

Also, when I think about it, isnt vma bonus only supposed to be working on single target dot? If so, they only need to fix their things so vma bonus doesnt apply to soul trap since its a multi target dot and most of the problem is solved.

Yeah its weird it's single target but kind of bounces i guess? Or has a radius around it.

Don’t nerf the set. It’s the only functionality it has and allows for some niche builds about empowering your Soul Trap. Any further interaction besides Soul Trap + Set should be looked at, neither the set nor the skill itself specifically.

So did that mean oblivion's foe no more trash bin meme but actually useful crafted set for it eight trait requirements?

Glory wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

same sets but with Balorgh

I saw someone post a 100k tooltip in another thread before, did make me laugh.

Also someone mentioned it's unblockable/ undodgable? Can't really test it myself though.

It's a DoT, so it wouldn't be blockable. I'll test undodgeable, but from what I recall you can't block the application currently.

Application should be dodgeable at least.

If it's too strong in PVP, just give it a dmg nerf against players.
They should do that with every ability.... Balance it FOR PVE (most content here and every update even more, nothing to add).
THEN! look how it will perform in PvP and make some finetuning with additional buffs/debuffs against ENEMY PLAYERS (tooltips can be read).

my 2 shiny coins. Best part of it? everyone would be happy.