Akaviri in Rimmen

psychotrip · April 2019

Inval1d wrote: »

I think y'all mixing the Tsaesci with the Akaviri...

Afaik, the Akaviri are the race of men from Akavir, which were "eaten alive" by the Tsaesci, whatever that means...

The one we see in Oblivion is probably an Akaviri enslaved/allied/enthralled by the Tsaesci to fight on the Pale Pass or something. As well, the ones on that big ass wall from Skyrim might be these men from Akavir.

I'm not a lorebeard or whatever and this may just be my head canon, but it's the way I understand it is... Also I think it doesn't exist any reference to the Tsaesci as humans on in-game books (correct me if wrong)...

There is no race called "Akaviri". That would be like if Tamriel had a race called Tamrielics. It's just a catch-all term for races like tsaesci, tang mo, kamal etc. Most often its used for tsaesci.

There used to be at least one civilization of men in Akavir, but they were in some way "eaten" by the tsaesci.

Bruccius · April 2019

psychotrip wrote: »

Read my signature. Also, the idea of an Imperial describing Summerset as incredibly beautiful and advanced makes no sense unless it had some truth to it. Imperials hated the Altmer in the second era. If anything, they'd lie and say it looks plain and bland.

And insect wings didnt have to be taken literally. It could have been describing stained glass, or resin, or...really anything beyond what we got. And even if it was literal, even if the Altmer did use giant, petrified dragonfly wings as windows...how is that any more insane than giant mushroom towers?

But none of this matters. There are multiple ways to interpret the Elder Scrolls lore. No one is denying that. Zenimax just took the most mundane and generic interpretation possible in my opinion. There is nothing unique or creative about the landscape or visuals of Summerset. It's just generic fantasy drivel.

Bringing it back on topic, making Tsaesci into humans would be yet another example of interpreting things in the most mundane and generic way possible, and completely invalidate the theme of Akavir as the land of beastmen.

It were literally the Imperial emmisarries of Reman Cyrodiil who described the land as ''generic fantasty'', it were a bunch of traders who said differently. There's lore to explain mushroom towers; they're risen like that through the use of magic. Insect wings come from insects. Insects that large do not exist, and creating a home out of said wings? Nearly impossible, even if it were the case.

Please note that the Akaviri Invaders who invaded during the time of Reman were perfectly represented by the ghosts we saw in TES IV; in one of their own journals a reference to ''legs'' are made. This is again, further supported by their depiction on Alduin's Wall: legged men.

Darios_Heliodromos · April 2019

I sorta expect the Tsaesci to be Asian-like versions of men, distantly related to Bretons, Nords, Redguards, and Imperials. It would explain the Oriental culture, weapons, architecture, etc. It would be really cool to see.

Perhaps there also exist snake-like beings that conquered them and now rule over them as overlords, or maybe the snake-like qualities are simply curious metaphors to personify their behavior.

I'm really hoping that Zos won't pull a fast one and suddenly make all the Akaviri of Rimmen disappear and replace them with generic Imperials for the sake of simplicity. Rimmen EXISTS because it was founded by the "Rim men."

Korah_Eaglecry · April 2019

mnemoniclights wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Calling.it now: the dragons killed all the tsaesci in Rimmen before the player arrives. It's in ruins and we never see a single one of them.

I'm thinking they're just going to apply the Blackrose skin to some humans and call it a day. $:\$ I'd rather the Tsaesci were all dead than they get blandified like Summerset was.

That would be utterly tragic. Even I'm not cynical enough to think that they'd ruin the mystery of the tsaesci like that.

But then again I didnt think they'd drop the ball on Summerset so hard.

Summerset was fine tho.

If generic disneyland is fine for you I gusss. I was looking forward to something a bit more creative and in line with the old lore.

If Tsaesci are revealed to just be regular humans, I wonder if people will think that's "fine" too.

I will be a bit disappointed, but will think it's "fine" since we've already seen:

Although I am hoping that they actually are human upper bodies and serpentine lower bodies, with an explanation for what we've seen in Pale Pass (in Oblivion).

Oblivion did that because they didnt want to make a new race for one quest. If we take their appearance as canon, then that would mean tsaesci are literally just imperials.

My theory has always been that tsaesci are literal snakes that act as parasites to humans, boring into their skulls and taking over their brains. It explains...pretty much everything about them. They "ate" the humans and became them. Their parasitic nature could be described as "vampiric". The invaders at pale pass were literally imperials that had been taken over by tsaesci "soldiers".

But I doubt ZOS will do anything like that. Easier just to make them Japanese humans.

They didnt seem to have a problem making a unique Dwemer for a quest or a Falmer. This argument falls flat when you realize that they do this with every game.

Asian humans wouldnt be a bad thing. They have been hinting at an asian culture for ages. And the lore leaves it quite open for the Tsaeci to be more than just some Akaviri version of Lamia.

Just going to point out that the Falmer is just a snow white retexture of an Altmer and Yagrum was a important quest NPC like Almalexia and Vivec who also gone their own unique look in the the third game. The difference between all these characters is that they're main quest important, unlike Pale Pass quest in Oblivion which was just a optional side quest.

It doesnt matter if the quest was MQ, the point is that they have a tradition of dropping mysterious races into their games. Retextured Altmer or not, were you expecting eight eyes and 3 legs? If the Tsaeci were supposed to be Akaviri Lamia I see no reason why they wouldnt have taken a similar creature and repurposed it. Instead we got a human.

Bethesda hasnt wanted a crazy off the rails fantasy world since the days of Morrowind. They realized long ago that its difficult to tell a coherent story when all sorts of weird "old" lore can be dug up and make a mess of a new storyline. Even more so when a sentence or two can send certain fans into hissy fits over it not being the literal interpretation when we finally see new places or races.

But then again, maybe this is all just an excuse to be upset with ZOS. Shrugging off the evidence that has been in the franchise for well over a decade.

Faulgor · April 2019

Well, even without going into the story (which is still under NDA), anyone who logs onto the PTS can see that there are no Akaviri in Rimmen.

I'm still searching around for things to make sense, but it's looking bad.

Korah_Eaglecry · April 2019

Faulgor wrote: »

Well, even without going into the story (which is still under NDA), anyone who logs onto the PTS can see that there are no Akaviri in Rimmen.

I'm still searching around for things to make sense, but it's looking bad.

Which is a shame. Im not going to put this on ZOS because ultimately they have to obtain permission from Bethesda to introduce Tsaeci to the game. But its still sucks that we dont have this interesting and unique look into an Akaviri culture. I think this might just be something that ZOS and ESO will never live down. And that is when it had the opportunity to show players things that have been talked about but never shown, they always chose not to show it.

Faulgor · April 2019

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Well, even without going into the story (which is still under NDA), anyone who logs onto the PTS can see that there are no Akaviri in Rimmen.

I'm still searching around for things to make sense, but it's looking bad.

Which is a shame. Im not going to put this on ZOS because ultimately they have to obtain permission from Bethesda to introduce Tsaeci to the game. But its still sucks that we dont have this interesting and unique look into an Akaviri culture. I think this might just be something that ZOS and ESO will never live down. And that is when it had the opportunity to show players things that have been talked about but never shown, they always chose not to show it.

There are some looks into Akaviri culture here and there throughout the zone. Imperial descendants in the village of Hakoshae have a festival that touches on some Akaviri (meaning Tsaesci) beliefs, such that "all waterways connect the realm of the living and dead". It's nice, but obviously nobody looks like a snake-man.

I also found the Tonenaka in Rimmen, although it is locked (I'm not sure yet if there's a quest that lets you enter). But there is a tome in front that elaborates on its construction and the fate of the Akaviri in Rimmen. Quote:
Indeed, the vast wealth that these Akaviri settlers brought with them to finance the project greatly increased Rimmen's prosperity. However, as the years passed, so few of the Akaviri remained that only five lived to see the Shrine's completion. Most had interbred with the Imperial population or settled farther south in the village of Hakosahe.

The 5 remaining Akaviri then locked themselves inside the Tonenaka, never to be seen again.

Including the world boss, that's 6 Akaviri remaining in the whole of Elsweyr, I assume. How these 6 are going to try to rebuild the Empire with the remnants of the Kamal invasion (which I suppose didn't happen yet, there wasn't enough time between the invasion in 572 and Euraxia taking Rimmen in 576), reclaim Rimmen before then and repel a Khajiiti attempt to retake the rim territories is a complete mystery to me. Maybe I'll find more info to fix the timeline eventually.

Darios_Heliodromos · April 2019

Any screenshots of the Tonenaka?

Faulgor · April 2019

Honestly it's just a door with 2 Khajiiti statues next to it ...

RaddlemanNumber7 · April 2019

Faulgor wrote: »

Honestly it's just a door with 2 Khajiiti statues next to it ...

...a very locked door

Darios_Heliodromos · April 2019

Faulgor wrote: »

Honestly it's just a door with 2 Khajiiti statues next to it ...

What's with the Khajiiti statues? I know it's Elsweyr and everything but Rimmen is supposed to be an Imperial/Tsaesci city.

ArchMikem · May 2019

Darios_Heliodromos wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Honestly it's just a door with 2 Khajiiti statues next to it ...

What's with the Khajiiti statues? I know it's Elsweyr and everything but Rimmen is supposed to be an Imperial/Tsaesci city.

Perhaps the Khajiit wanted to remove the original culture and replace it with their own, to make it their city.

Thevampirenight · May 2019

Well all they have to do is basically make the Tsaesci more in appearance to https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Yuan-ti_pureblood
Given the half akaviri they have in the lore almost looks exactly like that in skintone the 5e picture don't go by the 3e one . While giving them snake like eyes. And call it a day. How hard is that to do?

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Duadeen

They don't have to be exactly vampiric. Maybe have some resemblance to the Yuan Ti from d&d Maybe looking more asian or japanese. Heres the thing there is for sure A great population of Tsaesci during this time period I doubt many of the women and especially the children all sucided themselves to help their bretheron . I'm sure there is intermixing going on but yeah. I do think there would still be traits of that within the population. Even if its deluded. Does not excuse them not at all adding full blooded akaviri.
Basically all they have to do is make them more like Yuan-ti. Maybe some have snake like scales maybe not like argonionians with snake like eyes and tongues. But enough to have the Tsaesci feel to them. That is all they have to do. Given what is directly said in the lore about them. Even though the Tsaesci are the best known of Akavir's inhabitants, very little is known about them, and much of it is contradictory or cryptic.
Within the current lore of Tamriel, there are two quite different depictions of the Tsaesci. Some evidence seems to indicate that they are humans, much like the Nords and Redguards from their respective continents. Other evidence, however, paints a much stranger picture, as vampiric snake-like creatures that feed on humans.[4] One source says that the serpentine beings are tall and beautiful with golden scales

This is what the Yuan-Ti are in d&d as its a its a weird race there. I imagine it would be reversed instead of purebloods looking like humans. Purebloods looking more snake like with golden scales and snake like body. But come on Zos, I would for sure add them as not ghosts. I'm disapointed in this. Come on give us some true Tsaesci. They are not the dwemer and the intermixing for sure didn't happen till much later. As there was still pure blooded Akaviri before Talos or even during Talos Time. You got them guarding his armor for crying out loud as undead. I can understand some mixing but given the city would be majority Tsaesci, that one imperials banished them there I doubt they would want to mate with imperials. One they still have a foriegn culture I imagine they would be against the idea as well. Giving these factors. I would say for sure I don't think intermixing starts until the empire has a very strongfoothold and at least the time of talos where the third empire is restored then I think many of them would start to disapear into bloodline pollution. There might be some rare exceptions.

Darios_Heliodromos · May 2019

I believe that ultimately, when it comes down to it - ESO has to walk a thin line and be careful about depicting content (previously hinted at races, continents, entities, etc) that has the potential of becoming a major selling point in future TES games. While you cannot depict Elsweyr in-game without acknowledging the proverbial elephant (Akaviri/Tsaesci) that fills up a significant chunk of the province's lore, but it does appear that the devs are sorta dancing around the topic a bit, to avoid showing too much.

With time, I expect ESO to continue filling up the map of Tamriel, giving us a deeper insight into its native cultures such as how Summerset did for the High Elves or Murkmire did for the Argonians. I can imagine that Bethesda might be holding back on taking us to new locations such as Pyandonea or Akavir and saving it a future major title. If that is the case, I can sorta understand why ESO doesn't want to play its "Akaviri" card for a relatively minor DLC.

khajiitNPC · May 2019

I’m no lore buff, but TES and TESO seem to be filled with unreliable narrators. Outside of a handful of books describing snake like people, what actually has been presented seems quite the opposite.

Wasn’t there a Tsaesci emperor who sat on the throne? Didn’t Uriel V have a detailed report of a battle with Tsaesci? The fortress in pale pass depicts humanoid bodies, and even the ghost is human-like. The most recent damning evidence is that the motif book it’s self seems to indicate a humanoid race. Alduin’s wall depicts humanoids kneeling.

I personally believe they are humanoid, and the serpent stories are made to cast them in a negative light. The annotated Anuad also say the Tsaesci are humanoid. And I personally believe the Anuad is a more reliable text because it doesn’t seem to me, to be wrought with bias.

Maybe they are shape shifters, I don’t know. But the physical evidence that is presented all point to human. Uriel V described them as mounted men which is first person account.

Ajaxandriel · May 2019

Can someone who have played this part already - make a spoiler about the Akaviri in ESO:Elsweyr? ^^

Tensar · May 2019

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Can someone who have played this part already - make a spoiler about the Akaviri in ESO:Elsweyr? ^^

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dodgehopper_ESO · May 2019

What about the Imga in Grahtwood, where are they?

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2019

psychotrip wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Calling.it now: the dragons killed all the tsaesci in Rimmen before the player arrives. It's in ruins and we never see a single one of them.

I'm thinking they're just going to apply the Blackrose skin to some humans and call it a day. $:\$ I'd rather the Tsaesci were all dead than they get blandified like Summerset was.

That would be utterly tragic. Even I'm not cynical enough to think that they'd ruin the mystery of the tsaesci like that.

But then again I didnt think they'd drop the ball on Summerset so hard.

Summerset was fine tho.

If generic disneyland is fine for you I gusss. I was looking forward to something a bit more creative and in line with the old lore.

If Tsaesci are revealed to just be regular humans, I wonder if people will think that's "fine" too.

I will be a bit disappointed, but will think it's "fine" since we've already seen:

Although I am hoping that they actually are human upper bodies and serpentine lower bodies, with an explanation for what we've seen in Pale Pass (in Oblivion).

Oblivion did that because they didnt want to make a new race for one quest. If we take their appearance as canon, then that would mean tsaesci are literally just imperials.

My theory has always been that tsaesci are literal snakes that act as parasites to humans, boring into their skulls and taking over their brains. It explains...pretty much everything about them. They "ate" the humans and became them. Their parasitic nature could be described as "vampiric". The invaders at pale pass were literally imperials that had been taken over by tsaesci "soldiers".

But I doubt ZOS will do anything like that. Easier just to make them Japanese humans.

This doesn't explain the serpentine fighting style of the Tsaesci as described in the in game lorebooks. I disagree. They're called snake-vampires. I think it is much more likely that they have Lamia-like qualities but are something altogether different. I would presume the Akavir have a Chinese type of appearance and empire and that the humans of Akavir did in fact intermix with Imperials (who are the true mutts of Cyrodiil).

Number_51 · May 2019

Not only fighting style, but actual references to tails and coils in lore. There are half a dozen references in the "2920, The Last Year of the First Era" book series alone. At the very least, at least some Tsaesci have a tail.

There's absolutely nothing to back it, but I occasionally toy with the idea that maybe the Akaviri races are closer to Tamrielic races then we might think. Tsaesci being, perhaps more snake-like, Argonian; Ka Po' Tun more cat-like Khajiit; Tang Mo more ape-like men. Not sure what to make of Kamal... but Snow-Orcs? Yes, I know it's said that no mer ever lived on Akavir and that Orcs may (or may not) be a type of mer. Maybe they're just Akavir's Nords. The head cannon is sort of a "these could be the races from a previous kalpa".

On the subject of Kamal... wasn't the 2nd era invasion of Tamriel a Kamal invasion?

KhajiitFelix · May 2019

There is a world boss in Elsweyr that clearly looks like Akaviri

Ajaxandriel · May 2019

Tensar wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Can someone who have played this part already - make a spoiler about the Akaviri in ESO:Elsweyr? ^^

404 not found

In order to reply to myself, I've checked this on the net and indeed there are some data, so
here are the spoilers:
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/be06vl/i_gathered_akaviri_lore_and_screenshots_from_esos/

Aaaaand...

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

The Tsaesci have all gone on a religious retreat and the doors of the temple will be locked as tight as Windhelm's palace gates.

Seriously, if there were any actual Tsaesci there they would have been hyped and monetised along with the other Chapter features. They would have been in datamine.

It's the case -_-
But hopefully there are still akaviri lore and NPCs according to the spoiler link above.

Korah_Eaglecry · May 2019

Number_51 wrote: »

Not only fighting style, but actual references to tails and coils in lore. There are half a dozen references in the "2920, The Last Year of the First Era" book series alone. At the very least, at least some Tsaesci have a tail.

There's absolutely nothing to back it, but I occasionally toy with the idea that maybe the Akaviri races are closer to Tamrielic races then we might think. Tsaesci being, perhaps more snake-like, Argonian; Ka Po' Tun more cat-like Khajiit; Tang Mo more ape-like men. Not sure what to make of Kamal... but Snow-Orcs? Yes, I know it's said that no mer ever lived on Akavir and that Orcs may (or may not) be a type of mer. Maybe they're just Akavir's Nords. The head cannon is sort of a "these could be the races from a previous kalpa".

On the subject of Kamal... wasn't the 2nd era invasion of Tamriel a Kamal invasion?

That book has reason to be biased against the Tsaesci since it is chronicling the assassination of the Emperor, his family and the end of the Reman Dynasty. Its also considered to be a fictional work.