Tabatta is a good choice for class rep!

Audens wrote: »

I heavily support Code for class rep. He's a good dude, and would be a nice fit.

Yes! @code65536 is a great choice.

hopefully you get someone who does Guild pvp (aswell)

@ZOS_GinaBruno I would be addressing the main issue which is the underlaying unhappiness eminating from your clients. Everytime I read a forum post 98% of the time it's about players voicing their frustrations about not being heard.

Most of your player base is NOT leet and does not play the meta yet most of your reps/ streamers are about 'endgame'content. The silliest thing is, most of the people spending their rl money in the crown store are average players that probably enjoy many areas of the game such as questing, events, achievements, fishing,crafting, housing, rping, dungeons and some trials when they can find the right guild but most likely normal trials.
Endgamers are about playing the meta, getting flawless in vma and beating timers. Yet you have these people representing us your main average player base.
LISTEN TO YOUR CLIENTS: we are not lil kids but grown adults willing to pay for your services but you need to provide us with a reasonable product. We love Eso and many of us have been around longer that some of zos devs. I personally dislike the divide you are creating between the class reps/ streamers and us. You blatantly treat them like vip ...it's like a clique in highschool. I watched a recent stream of zenimax studios only to be told half way that we the viewers were not privy to view the zos content till a later date as it was ' top secret'...Really? then why did your buddy/streamer bother making the vid in the first place. Very clicky immature behaviour from you Gina Bruno...reps are not your highschool clique or fb friends ...your job is to provide us the community with support. Thank you for reading .

wishlist14 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno I would be addressing the main issue which is the underlaying unhappiness eminating from your clients. Everytime I read a forum post 98% of the time it's about players voicing their frustrations about not being heard.

Most of your player base is NOT leet and does not play the meta yet most of your reps/ streamers are about 'endgame'content. The silliest thing is, most of the people spending their rl money in the crown store are average players that probably enjoy many areas of the game such as questing, events, achievements, fishing,crafting, housing, rping, dungeons and some trials when they can find the right guild but most likely normal trials.
Endgamers are about playing the meta, getting flawless in vma and beating timers. Yet you have these people representing us your main average player base.
LISTEN TO YOUR CLIENTS: we are not lil kids but grown adults willing to pay for your services but you need to provide us with a reasonable product. We love Eso and many of us have been around longer that some of zos devs. I personally dislike the divide you are creating between the class reps/ streamers and us. You blatantly treat them like vip ...it's like a clique in highschool. I watched a recent stream of zenimax studios only to be told half way that we the viewers were not privy to view the zos content till a later date as it was ' top secret'...Really? then why did your buddy/streamer bother making the vid in the first place. Very clicky immature behaviour from you Gina Bruno...reps are not your highschool clique or fb friends ...your job is to provide us the community with support. Thank you for reading .

i dont want reps, but, if forced to have them,
then i vote for @wishlist14

wishlist14 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno I would be addressing the main issue which is the underlaying unhappiness eminating from your clients. Everytime I read a forum post 98% of the time it's about players voicing their frustrations about not being heard.

Most of your player base is NOT leet and does not play the meta yet most of your reps/ streamers are about 'endgame'content. The silliest thing is, most of the people spending their rl money in the crown store are average players that probably enjoy many areas of the game such as questing, events, achievements, fishing,crafting, housing, rping, dungeons and some trials when they can find the right guild but most likely normal trials.
Endgamers are about playing the meta, getting flawless in vma and beating timers. Yet you have these people representing us your main average player base.
LISTEN TO YOUR CLIENTS: we are not lil kids but grown adults willing to pay for your services but you need to provide us with a reasonable product. We love Eso and many of us have been around longer that some of zos devs. I personally dislike the divide you are creating between the class reps/ streamers and us. You blatantly treat them like vip ...it's like a clique in highschool. I watched a recent stream of zenimax studios only to be told half way that we the viewers were not privy to view the zos content till a later date as it was ' top secret'...Really? then why did your buddy/streamer bother making the vid in the first place. Very clicky immature behaviour from you Gina Bruno...reps are not your highschool clique or fb friends ...your job is to provide us the community with support. Thank you for reading .

I get your frustration and also that you want a classrep representing the average players and not just the elitists...

see here's the problem:
IF the game is designed arround the avg player, then highend players will completly tear the average player into pieces within mear seconds in PVP, which aint fun for both.
They would hit DPS numbers way higher than they do now, while avg ppl may be able to do more content, endgamer will do the content still more efficient, faster, better scores etc. which would prob end up in them leaving the game, since there's no challenge for them.

Having the Elitists beeing classreps atleast prevents that content is obsolete the day its released, and keeps DPS on elitist players somehow in check, since they dont want to just steamroll everything, the downside is, that avg players are nearly cast out of veteran content and getting BIS setups. But then again...do avg players really need BIS gear, if they cannot make full use out of it?

finding a middleground is hard, since so many aspects have to be taken into consideration, overland, quests, dungeons, pvp , trials, battlegrounds etc.

DyingIsEasy wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

wishlist14 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno I would be addressing the main issue which is the underlaying unhappiness eminating from your clients. Everytime I read a forum post 98% of the time it's about players voicing their frustrations about not being heard.

Most of your player base is NOT leet and does not play the meta yet most of your reps/ streamers are about 'endgame'content. The silliest thing is, most of the people spending their rl money in the crown store are average players that probably enjoy many areas of the game such as questing, events, achievements, fishing,crafting, housing, rping, dungeons and some trials when they can find the right guild but most likely normal trials.
Endgamers are about playing the meta, getting flawless in vma and beating timers. Yet you have these people representing us your main average player base.
LISTEN TO YOUR CLIENTS: we are not lil kids but grown adults willing to pay for your services but you need to provide us with a reasonable product. We love Eso and many of us have been around longer that some of zos devs. I personally dislike the divide you are creating between the class reps/ streamers and us. You blatantly treat them like vip ...it's like a clique in highschool. I watched a recent stream of zenimax studios only to be told half way that we the viewers were not privy to view the zos content till a later date as it was ' top secret'...Really? then why did your buddy/streamer bother making the vid in the first place. Very clicky immature behaviour from you Gina Bruno...reps are not your highschool clique or fb friends ...your job is to provide us the community with support. Thank you for reading .

I get your frustration and also that you want a classrep representing the average players and not just the elitists...

see here's the problem:
IF the game is designed arround the avg player, then highend players will completly tear the average player into pieces within mear seconds in PVP, which aint fun for both.
They would hit DPS numbers way higher than they do now, while avg ppl may be able to do more content, endgamer will do the content still more efficient, faster, better scores etc. which would prob end up in them leaving the game, since there's no challenge for them.

Having the Elitists beeing classreps atleast prevents that content is obsolete the day its released, and keeps DPS on elitist players somehow in check, since they dont want to just steamroll everything, the downside is, that avg players are nearly cast out of veteran content and getting BIS setups. But then again...do avg players really need BIS gear, if they cannot make full use out of it?

finding a middleground is hard, since so many aspects have to be taken into consideration, overland, quests, dungeons, pvp , trials, battlegrounds etc.

For obvious reasons the game has to be balanced around the best possible builds.
And i agree that you need pro players to do exactly that.

But i still think it wouldn't hurt to have a few non-pro class reps.
Not to balance combat around non-perfect builds but to make sure that combat is fun for non-pros as well.
I suppose non-pros have a few pain points that pros simply never experience.

AGreed, a bit of a balance in the Rep poistions is also required...
keep in mind that Classreps dont represent classes per se

Alcast plays dungeons, Trials Endgame, PVP and BG's...but on high lvl....so quite widely spread across the content, altouh on a high lvl ofc.
some ppl who play similar content on a avg lvl would surely help IMO.

templesus wrote: »

[removed quote]

Anyone who’s serious about this game and giving feedback has long since joined the Class Rep Discords. The communication channels are very alive. These Discords are currently where the majority of feedback is given and I can personally confirm at least on the Templar discord that @Checkmath and @Joy_Division are both active and engaged in getting feedback from the rest of us, even actively asking us questions in regards to how we would like certain abilities adjusted (such as Power of the Light being that it’s been bugged for years).

We’ve actually built a fairly good non-toxic community on the Templar discord that I’m pretty proud of based off of the grapevine of things I’ve heard regarding the other Discords bar DKs...part of it is because the people with little experience in the game are not present and giving feedback, it is a group of experienced like minded individuals who know the mechanics of the game fairly well. Inexperienced players often pop in with general questions and looking for help with the game and myself as well as several others are always willing to help them out.

That's not true.. There are new players who are serious about giving their opinions, and they should be included as well. Some people waited to see how things played out before wanting to join.

The Class Reps need to update their Discord Channels and post them so people can join again. Failure to do so means they don't want the communication from others.

I even created a thread in Feb and @ Masel, Alcast and Joy_Division and said they needed to update their Discord Channel addresses. The post went ignored. Not a single one responded, even to give their Discord address in response. I even Private Messaged them on the forums.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455993/class-representative-program-feedback-channels-discord-link-expired#latest

I also messaged Gina about the need to update the links. All unanswered.

THAT tells me that NO. The current Class Reps don't want to hear from the Average ESO Community about their input. They only want to hear input from the Few players they deem worthy enough to have continued to share their Discord with. And this is why the player base feels like they are not being listened too!!

This is why players don't trust the Class Rep Programs.

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

wishlist14 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno I would be addressing the main issue which is the underlaying unhappiness eminating from your clients. Everytime I read a forum post 98% of the time it's about players voicing their frustrations about not being heard.

Most of your player base is NOT leet and does not play the meta yet most of your reps/ streamers are about 'endgame'content. The silliest thing is, most of the people spending their rl money in the crown store are average players that probably enjoy many areas of the game such as questing, events, achievements, fishing,crafting, housing, rping, dungeons and some trials when they can find the right guild but most likely normal trials.
Endgamers are about playing the meta, getting flawless in vma and beating timers. Yet you have these people representing us your main average player base.
LISTEN TO YOUR CLIENTS: we are not lil kids but grown adults willing to pay for your services but you need to provide us with a reasonable product. We love Eso and many of us have been around longer that some of zos devs. I personally dislike the divide you are creating between the class reps/ streamers and us. You blatantly treat them like vip ...it's like a clique in highschool. I watched a recent stream of zenimax studios only to be told half way that we the viewers were not privy to view the zos content till a later date as it was ' top secret'...Really? then why did your buddy/streamer bother making the vid in the first place. Very clicky immature behaviour from you Gina Bruno...reps are not your highschool clique or fb friends ...your job is to provide us the community with support. Thank you for reading .

I get your frustration and also that you want a classrep representing the average players and not just the elitists...

see here's the problem:
IF the game is designed arround the avg player, then highend players will completly tear the average player into pieces within mear seconds in PVP, which aint fun for both.
They would hit DPS numbers way higher than they do now, while avg ppl may be able to do more content, endgamer will do the content still more efficient, faster, better scores etc. which would prob end up in them leaving the game, since there's no challenge for them.

Having the Elitists beeing classreps atleast prevents that content is obsolete the day its released, and keeps DPS on elitist players somehow in check, since they dont want to just steamroll everything, the downside is, that avg players are nearly cast out of veteran content and getting BIS setups. But then again...do avg players really need BIS gear, if they cannot make full use out of it?

finding a middleground is hard, since so many aspects have to be taken into consideration, overland, quests, dungeons, pvp , trials, battlegrounds etc.

That's already happening in PVP and PVE end game content. There is a MASSIVE gap in end game DPS between the Average Player and End Game player.

This, I noted in a couple of threads, particularly one where I wrote an essay in regards to the need for continued progression in this game. There are distinct tiers.
Here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458667/progression-atrophy-the-need-for-power-creep-in-eso-other-pain-points-for-middle-tiered-players/p1

The problem boils down to the Combat Meta the Combat Design team chooses to use, in addition with the armour sets that are released which take advantage of said Meta. The majority of the player base can't Light attack weave/Animation Cancel.
The in game latency and fps issues have been proven to have a hand in a players ability, or inability to effectively do this. It's a meta that should not be used so heavily. They need to go back to the Heavy attack meta. At least the average player was able to work in line with that.

Additionally, another problem the average player has, is with rotation. Most are unable to keep up with convoluted requirements of the super dynamic rotations needed with the Light Attack weaving to get a decent parse. Like the ones Nightblades use. Certain nerfs by ZOS which actually lowered how long certain DOT abilities lasted hurt average players a lot.
It's one thing to use a target dummy to test out a rotation for how it works and what dps you are getting. It's another thing to have to spend months infront of a dummy "perfecting" your rotation and learning to light attack weave/animation cancel to hit the required high dps numbers. A majory of the average players don't want to do that. It's not fun.

On top of that, you have players on PC and the console users who play with a controller. Controllers add an additional layer of information being sent to the servers, and they do have a noticeable pause between the use of skills and regular attacks. These players are in fact competing with a lot of top end players (especially on PC) where they use mechanical keyboards with set up macros to automatically light attack for them after every skill used. The use of macros to improve DPS by making it easier for you to play, needs to be taken into consideration when things are balanced overall.. not just the DPS numbers that player is getting.

What do I feel could be done to help?

Rotation issues:
- What ZOS needs to do is look at the DOT abilities and make them all last 15sec. This will go a long way to helping the average player be able to work out a rotation, that while slower than the Higher end players, will allow them keep the uptime on their skills better, while also being able to work in a couple heavy attacks to keep their resources up.

- Remove the Light Attack Weave meta, or Return the Heavy attack weave meta... More players were able to work with the Heavy attack meta. It was a little easier to cancel, even with lag, where the light attack weave cancel isn't.

- Learning a rotation is not intuitive in the vast majority of this game. Most players just spam skills and a light or heavy attack in between, but there is nothing to help a player learn a rotation. Alcast or another player posting there's for someone to follow doesn't count as players have to go outside the game to learn that and then spend hours, days, months perfecting it on a dummy.
This would be made easier by having a UI in game to help us with our rotation. Think old PSOne game Legend of Dragoons, where you had to press the button when a certain indicator flashed on the screen and in certain patterns per character.
What I would like to see is something that allows a player to put in what they want for their rotation and then it works with the player to get better and better at it. So it's slow at first, and then as their muscle memory is gained, it gets quicker when the player shortens the sequence.

- Fix the DW/SnB Echanting change. That was a bad change to begin with. Make it so the Main hand holds the full enchantment and the off hand holds a half enchantment.

Consider reinstituting CAPs on our stats. Put in a checks and balance with it so that you can't overstack on things. Ex: Max mag stat is 45k and Recovery is 3.5k, but once you meet that cap and can't really put any more points into it, you can put more points into health or stamina, BUT an only raise it 1/4 the point amount, up to a lower maximum, which would need to be determined to help make hybrids viable.

CP points can then relatively stay as is, while a new tree could be added to bring in QOL items for those you meet the caps.

Maybe a Max DPS gap. Put a roof over the DPS Ceiling to prevent it from getting even higher. Then adjust for that climb gradually when a near majority of players can meet that cap.

Why aren't players doing more Vet content or Hard Mode content??
- They don't know how to get the DPS they need to do the content, even with max CP
- Some players don't listen to advice given
- Don't know a rotation to maximize dps.
- Players get turned off after dealing with other more toxic players on a frequent basis
- There are too many mechanics. Hard Modes are suppose to be hard,.... but when you throw in so may mechanics that players find it overwhelming to their visual senses, then you've gone too far. You need to find a proper balance to the mechanics vs difficulty without resorting to throwing the whole damn sink in there to keep top tier 1% players happy. (Frostvault HM, Blackrose Prison, etc.)
- In terms of trials. That community tends to be very toxic. There are high dps requirements that must be met and many don't want to take the time to help others improve. But they will be there to sell runs for skins for 10m gold.
- The newer trials, like the newer dungeons tend to have too many mechanics added to them for the majority of the community to be interested in doing them.
- These mechanics tend to be unforgiving and you have to be on point every single time, otherwise you wipe the whole group. Vet Cloudrest & the addition +1-3 is a prime example of this happening. You can have a well above average dps group of 37k+ players, but if the tank or someone elses slips up just once, everyone is dead. Mechanics need to be interesting and not out right punishing. Cloudrest has been called the guild killer for a reason, and the main reason are the unforgiving mechanics in it, even without the + boss additions.
- The interesting part... better gear is put behind the harder more clears (Perfected), yet many times, it's not the Super DPS players who need that armour, it's the Average to Above Average players, like those pulling between 25-40k dps who actually need that armour to help them.

This is where it has been felt that, a good group of Trials guild members should be able to do these type of trials, even with 25k-35k dps. The mechanics shouldn't be as punishing as they are. The challenge of the trials should be in getting a better run time for leader boards, not getting your DPS so high that you bypass the mechanics altogether.
What might be fun for the 1% is not fun for a majority of the player base. This type of content needs to take the majority of the player base in mind when they are created and they haven't been. This is why we see dungeons 2 years later being nerfed so that the average players can do them. (VWGT -Planar boss, VHRC- upstairs boss).

Mechanics with these dungeons then, need to be made in such a way that they don't have massive climbing DPS checks for Vet clears. Hard Mode to a point, yes... but not to a staggering amount. The +1-3 type trials shouldn't have DPS checks at all. The mechanics in them should be made so they give a good amount of wiggle room, so that players who don't fit into the top line DPS (25-30k) can still do the content, even if it means, taking 2-3hrs to clear it. They are at least putting in the effort to do the content. That should be worth something. They won't make leaderboard, BUT they would be able to earn armour that will give them a little extra magicka or stamina that may help a bit with their resources.

I know there are a number of end game players who aren't going to be happy about ZOS working a way to open certain content to more players, but that is what needs to be done, otherwise, we'll end up seeing ZOS no longer developing this type of content, because not enough players do it. And we don't want that.

What the top end players also fail to realize, or don't care about, is that a majority of the ESO player base did NOT come from an MMO background. They came to play this game because of Skyrim and their love of the Elder Scrolls Lore. There is a completely different way you have to teach these players to play end game content because things like Rotations and wearing certain sets, or attack weaving are absolute foreign concepts to them and it harder to teach them this.

There are also players who have to use controllers and system for this game which heavily affected by lag, and have a latency of their own. Then there are other's with disabilities, who can't reach a certain DPS point, but have trouble keeping up the current meta needed to improve their DPS to be allowed to get back into content they used to be able to do.

Yes, I have applied to be Class Representative, to Rep the Average Player base, those with Disabilities and those who use controllers to play.
I've played this game since Beta. I have played each Class in the game, both magicka and stamina. Tank, DPS and Healer.
I'm in guilds for PVP only, Trials Progression, Casual Family Fun. I talk to all different types of players and get their concerns and ideas. I talk and play a lot to the Higher than Average players (35-47k) to get an idea where the current pain points are in regards to end game content and where they feel ZOS has gone too far in terms of mechanics.
I don't support the 1% community, or their game play methods. I understand them. I understand they want a challenge, but that challenge should not come at the expense of the overall health of the game.
I advocate for opening Vet content to more people without completely taking away all the challenge.

Nebthet78 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

[removed quote]

Anyone who’s serious about this game and giving feedback has long since joined the Class Rep Discords. The communication channels are very alive. These Discords are currently where the majority of feedback is given and I can personally confirm at least on the Templar discord that @Checkmath and @Joy_Division are both active and engaged in getting feedback from the rest of us, even actively asking us questions in regards to how we would like certain abilities adjusted (such as Power of the Light being that it’s been bugged for years).

We’ve actually built a fairly good non-toxic community on the Templar discord that I’m pretty proud of based off of the grapevine of things I’ve heard regarding the other Discords bar DKs...part of it is because the people with little experience in the game are not present and giving feedback, it is a group of experienced like minded individuals who know the mechanics of the game fairly well. Inexperienced players often pop in with general questions and looking for help with the game and myself as well as several others are always willing to help them out.

That's not true.. There are new players who are serious about giving their opinions, and they should be included as well. Some people waited to see how things played out before wanting to join.

The Class Reps need to update their Discord Channels and post them so people can join again. Failure to do so means they don't want the communication from others.

I even created a thread in Feb and @ Masel, Alcast and Joy_Division and said they needed to update their Discord Channel addresses. The post went ignored. Not a single one responded, even to give their Discord address in response. I even Private Messaged them on the forums.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455993/class-representative-program-feedback-channels-discord-link-expired#latest

I also messaged Gina about the need to update the links. All unanswered.

THAT tells me that NO. The current Class Reps don't want to hear from the Average ESO Community about their input. They only want to hear input from the Few players they deem worthy enough to have continued to share their Discord with. And this is why the player base feels like they are not being listened too!!

This is why players don't trust the Class Rep Programs.

Just so you know, I am unfamiliar with Discord, I don't even know how to use the emojis that are grayed out, and I certainly don't know what it even means to update them. So the reason I have not done what you wanted to is because I don;t know how, not because I'm only interested in listening to a few people.

I am uncomfortable that somehow Discord is perceived as the default means to communicate feedback. If I wasn't I rep, I doubt I'd even bother. if I am unfamiliar with it, how many of the people you are describing who have responsibilities or aren't hardcore gamers are also unfamiliar? It is what it is though. I look at it, but when it says "984 messages since you last logged in while at work" and none of it is organized, well, it's overwhelming. When collecting feedback, at least for me, Discord is just one tool.

I do agree with you that the gap between the top end of the game and the masses (I prefer not to be combative or pejorative and dub them "elitists" or casuals") - in fact I think it's a huge issue - and this is something I and the other reps have been in constant communication with ZOS. They are aware of the issue, in fact they have been aware of it going all the way back to Morrowind (we all remember the nerfs inspired by the "raise the floor, lower the ceiling philosophy). The main issue, is not that they aren't listening or don;t want to meet the goals that you are aiming for, rather than game is very complex and has already gone so far in widening that gap that it's going to take a lot of effort, thinking, and experimenting to come up with a resolution. And it's very likely that a major change in the game's mechanics are going to upset a lot of people because they have invested so much time in the characters they love to play and care for, even if it might be in their best interest.

As far as caring for the masses, how you characterize me is not fair at all. When I wrote my guide for VMA, I specifically tailored it to the average DPS player because I know how darn frustrating that was. I cared nothing about score and every one of my strategies was specifically designed for people with average DPS and I explianed in detail the mechanics those with average DPS would face. When I made my video for it, I intentionally used 300 CPs to ensure that I wouldn't have the stats or play like an end-game player.

When the PvP event came, I wrote a super long post trying me best to explain and encourage people who don't PvP how they can get all the achievements without too much of a hassle, even how a healer might get 50 Killing blows.

Just about every advice I post is tailored toward "average" players. I most certainly do make it a point to listen to what they have to say. The only reason I can compete at end-game is because people were once nice to me when I was a never played an MMO type who wasn't very good at ESO.

i vote for @wishlist14

Im leaving...putting in a ticket to delete my forum account and not subbing...no i wont be login in to eso again. Im sure my family will follow . Take care.

Can we have more reps with more bade game knowledge plz

When i refer to the 'average player' I don't mean we can't do above 10k dps. I meant the average player that is non leetist.
I played wow for 10 yrs and eso for 5 and Tes before all that plus other games. I know my combat, Ive raided with big guilds in wow. Ive done vet content in eso but i wont call myself leetist cause im not. I am a good solid player with good dps...i dont do 45k dps. I dont have bis gear.

I dont want a leet builds. I want builds to be more fun. Im sick of going into guilds and hearing the same advice over and over given to new players. Go to Alcast. You just started yep go look at what a leet, genius player can do. Respect for alcast who is exceptional. But Alcast is for the 1%.

I want builds to be intuitive....rubbish sets to be deleted or revamped as they confuse new players no end. I want freaking races to not determine builds dammit. I want the average good player to be happy and confident and be free and creative...knowing that they can do vet content if they want in the build they want and race they love.

Im tired of seeingend gamer builds with meta race being the redguard of high elf...possibly orc and breton now...
All races should feature as being able to do any content including endgame if and when us average good players decide to go there.

Lets all be sheep and copy the meta builds and oh tweak here and there yea ok...fun times



Why has my forum account not been deleted yet ?