Where is that YouTube screenshot from?

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Some datamine revealed the future mount but tonight we got the official announcement.

At least we'll see the senche-raht form, usable as a mount



and... and...



Alfiq! They'll be speaking-sentient and seemingly "civilized" cats.

Many hardcore khajiit fans will be relieved!

Somehow it retcons/reposition the direction taken in original ESO about this matter, to bring back the khajiit furstocks from the wider TES lore. The scenarists seem willing to avoid the kind of drama and backlash Summerset raised.
I'd say why not! Wait and see how it turns out to be, how this would work...and what for. Lunar lattice really? some magic or biology deeper reason under the myth?
Anyway, if sentient alfiq are a thing, then I see two or three "issues"

- it'll be harder to justify why the PC can not be such types of character,
- it'll be harder to justify why so much khajiit (almost all) are from few types
- they have to show the whole variety of furstocks, I want to know how look like the Dagi and Tojay, Pahmar "bulky" ones, and so on, with their -raht counterpart. Sidestepping this while we travel inside Elsweyr would be frustrating ^^

I dont know how many furstocks ZOS has bothered to make beyond the three we have as of this announcement. But its quite possible for them to expand on furstocks at a later point if they cant get to it here. Understandably adding all of the furstocks would be a huge undertaking.

I hope they add them, but Im not going to hold my breath as its quite unfair to expect that level of detail and immersion. There is something like 16 furstocks according to the lore. That is a lot of models to expect ZOS to churn out. Even expecting 8 models per zone would be unlikely in my opinion. My guess is we might get a few more than what we know of right now. But if ZOS wants to add the whole laundry list of breeds. Theyll have to do it separate of the addition of zones.

That would be quite a letdown if they don't. They took a very risky (but interesting) path by having the furstocks happen. We are going to see the heart of Elsweyr now. How would you expect they expand on furstocks on later point?
That sounds like "Welcome in the heart of Elsweyr! - Wait, where are the Tojay? Aren't they meant to live here? - Well, you won't see them... yet... They're... hiding... I guess." - You see, this sounds like hogwash lore

I can not see how it would work anyway.

If the lunar lattice thing is canon, well the khajiit form is determined by the calendar of the year - why not then - but how do you explain there is so few variability among the NPCs and PCs?
Why are there so few Tojay and Dagi around, comparing to other forms?

Do khajiit breed at few moments of the year, making some furstocks statistically very rare?

Why would they hide themselves from the world? Is it some religious belief like the Shadowscale argonians? or a banishment like the Hulkynd high elves?

Sorry but this ever made few sense for me! XD

Building khajiit forms is not that difficult, basically they have the skeleton models already.

As somebody noticed, the Senche-raht is built as a Welwa scaled-up body with a lynx head. This works.
An Alfiq is a Cat. This works.

They can build digitigrade khajiit (Dagi? Tojay? even Suthay) by using the animation model of the Hungers. Fine solutions are there already!

I hope at least, if they haven't the ressources to do so, then they'll provide in-game lore-friendly explanation for us not to see these "rare" furstocks.

I lost you at "civilized" cats.

Magic? Sure.
Dragons? Why not?

But civilized cats? Even my immersion has limits

Kajuratus wrote: »

Whats also comforting about this chapter is that we're not getting the whole of Elsweyr. This leaves ZOS with a "get out of jail free card" of sorts if they can't implement all of the different Khajiit breeds this time around. Looking at this map there will still be alot of Elsweyr left unexplored after the chapter is released, so that would still leave them with at least 2 more zones to add in the rest of the furstocks later on.

Oh- You're right, definitely, I hadn't notice this map during the show.
So I just realize "ESO:Elsweyr" is going to unveil Anequina only.
I'm a bit disappointed because I'm more fond of the Pellitine part... well, I believe I heard them speak about the Tenmar Forest, so maybe we'll see its nothern part at least...

Kajuratus wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

That would be quite a letdown if they don't. They took a very risky (but interesting) path by having the furstocks happen. We are going to see the heart of Elsweyr now. How would you expect they expand on furstocks on later point?
That sounds like "Welcome in the heart of Elsweyr! - Wait, where are the Tojay? Aren't they meant to live here? - Well, you won't see them... yet... They're... hiding... I guess." - You see, this sounds like hogwash lore

I can not see how it would work anyway.

My favourite thing about the lore of the Khajiit are the different furstocks, but I definitely find this to be a bit of a weak point of the lore myself. What we have to remember is that Bethesda developers have mentioned that the lack of furstocks in the games is not indicative of actual Khajiit lore. There are presumably Ohmes(-Raht) Suthay(-Raht) and Cathay(-Raht) all over Tamriel, but we only ever see one breed due to game limitations.

I find it waaaayyyy more uncomfortable to be told "they are here but the game doesn't show them because of game limitations", you know, that's brutally immersion-breaking!

Kajuratus wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

If the lunar lattice thing is canon, well the khajiit form is determined by the calendar of the year - why not then - but how do you explain there is so few variability among the NPCs and PCs?
Why are there so few Tojay and Dagi around, comparing to other forms?

The Tojay(-Raht) and the Dagi(-Raht) supposedly live in the Tenmar forests. Nobody knows why, but it could very well be something similar to the Shadowscales, in that once they come of age, they are sent to the Tenmar forests to train, or maybe for a completely different reason. Considering we're only getting the top half of Elsweyr this chapter though, I doubt we'll get to see them.

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Do khajiit breed at few moments of the year, making some furstocks statistically very rare?

Why would they hide themselves from the world? Is it some religious belief like the Shadowscale argonians? or a banishment like the Hulkynd high elves?

Sorry but this ever made few sense for me! XD

I hope at least, if they haven't the ressources to do so, then they'll provide in-game lore-friendly explanation for us not to see these "rare" furstocks.

Its likely that outside of Elsweyr, the Khajiit have to be very careful when considering having a child. But remember that the four legged breeds of Khajiit don't usually venture outside of Elsweyr, probably for fear of their own safety. Consider how xenophobic some cultues of Tamriel can be, its probably best to stay in your own province, where most people would know you're a person and not an animal.

Well that seems fair explanations so I'm all ok if they show something similar. But it'd be way better, way better, if they do show some specimens of lesser-known furstocks anyway (even as representations on carved walls )

Danikat wrote: »

I'm really happy to see this. I was very worried they'd completely retcon the furstocks out of existence, either claiming they never existed or that they're all slightly different builds/fur patterns of the existing khajiit. I was preparing myself to accept the compromise of existing cat models being re-used and maybe slightly scaled up/down.

But now I'm back to being excited about this expansion.

One should always keep his expectations low, so this kind of happy news is appreciated haha

P.S. : speaking Alfiq be like


(Salem from Samantha tv show )

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Some datamine revealed the future mount but tonight we got the official announcement.

At least we'll see the senche-raht form, usable as a mount



and... and...



Alfiq! They'll be speaking-sentient and seemingly "civilized" cats.

Many hardcore khajiit fans will be relieved!

Somehow it retcons/reposition the direction taken in original ESO about this matter, to bring back the khajiit furstocks from the wider TES lore. The scenarists seem willing to avoid the kind of drama and backlash Summerset raised.
I'd say why not! Wait and see how it turns out to be, how this would work...and what for. Lunar lattice really? some magic or biology deeper reason under the myth?
Anyway, if sentient alfiq are a thing, then I see two or three "issues"

- it'll be harder to justify why the PC can not be such types of character,
- it'll be harder to justify why so much khajiit (almost all) are from few types
- they have to show the whole variety of furstocks, I want to know how look like the Dagi and Tojay, Pahmar "bulky" ones, and so on, with their -raht counterpart. Sidestepping this while we travel inside Elsweyr would be frustrating ^^

I dont know how many furstocks ZOS has bothered to make beyond the three we have as of this announcement. But its quite possible for them to expand on furstocks at a later point if they cant get to it here. Understandably adding all of the furstocks would be a huge undertaking.

I hope they add them, but Im not going to hold my breath as its quite unfair to expect that level of detail and immersion. There is something like 16 furstocks according to the lore. That is a lot of models to expect ZOS to churn out. Even expecting 8 models per zone would be unlikely in my opinion. My guess is we might get a few more than what we know of right now. But if ZOS wants to add the whole laundry list of breeds. Theyll have to do it separate of the addition of zones.

That would be quite a letdown if they don't. They took a very risky (but interesting) path by having the furstocks happen. We are going to see the heart of Elsweyr now. How would you expect they expand on furstocks on later point?
That sounds like "Welcome in the heart of Elsweyr! - Wait, where are the Tojay? Aren't they meant to live here? - Well, you won't see them... yet... They're... hiding... I guess." - You see, this sounds like hogwash lore

I can not see how it would work anyway.

If the lunar lattice thing is canon, well the khajiit form is determined by the calendar of the year - why not then - but how do you explain there is so few variability among the NPCs and PCs?
Why are there so few Tojay and Dagi around, comparing to other forms?

Do khajiit breed at few moments of the year, making some furstocks statistically very rare?

Why would they hide themselves from the world? Is it some religious belief like the Shadowscale argonians? or a banishment like the Hulkynd high elves?

Sorry but this ever made few sense for me! XD

Building khajiit forms is not that difficult, basically they have the skeleton models already.

As somebody noticed, the Senche-raht is built as a Welwa scaled-up body with a lynx head. This works.
An Alfiq is a Cat. This works.

They can build digitigrade khajiit (Dagi? Tojay? even Suthay) by using the animation model of the Hungers. Fine solutions are there already!

I hope at least, if they haven't the ressources to do so, then they'll provide in-game lore-friendly explanation for us not to see these "rare" furstocks.

Some of it can work by adding some of them at a later date because not all of Elsweyr is being released with this Chapter, and it only briefly dips into the Tenmar forest area. We don't know much about the Dagi or Tojay but the one thing we do know is that they're said to live in the Tenmar forest (for whatever reason, maybe their form is able to excel very well in the type of landscape), so maybe they just won't show up into a full Tenmar zone gets released.

There doesn't necessarily need to be an explanation for why we don't see all of the different forms right away at first, and honestly I'd prefer they didn't because any explanation that they would give wouldn't really float very well, or make it feel worse. In the end it's just down to the same reason we don't see children in the game. It's not that they don't exist, we just don't see them. If we try to make them say why, and it's something like "the other forms are extremely rare" or "khajiit breed in a way to make bipedal forms the most common" then it takes away from the worldbuilding potential because now those furstocks aren't actually something you would see equally in their everyday society, and do go from "we just don't see them" to, "no, they actually aren't there."

I'd rather they decide to take the long route and do a good job with the Khajiit furstocks, even if that means spacing some of them out until deeper zones of Elsweyr is released. It's difficult since this is the most anticipated aspect of Khajiiti culture for me, and of course seeing all of Elsweyr was important to me too so I'm a bit let down by that - but I know I'd be more let down if the furstocks or Elsweyr itself isn't done to the best that it can be.

I am very glad that we are getting to see at least the Alfiq, and Senche-raht (probably Senche and Alfiq-raht as well in the case). Still in the air if we see some of the more easier to develop ones like Ohmes and such, but I'm not holding my breathe on Tojay or Dagi variants until Tenmar fully gets added. That doesn't mean we won't get more lore on them to help us imagine what they'll look like for when we do get to go there and see them later. I'm pretty certain we'll get at least that.

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Some datamine revealed the future mount but tonight we got the official announcement.

At least we'll see the senche-raht form, usable as a mount



and... and...



Alfiq! They'll be speaking-sentient and seemingly "civilized" cats.

Many hardcore khajiit fans will be relieved!

Somehow it retcons/reposition the direction taken in original ESO about this matter, to bring back the khajiit furstocks from the wider TES lore. The scenarists seem willing to avoid the kind of drama and backlash Summerset raised.
I'd say why not! Wait and see how it turns out to be, how this would work...and what for. Lunar lattice really? some magic or biology deeper reason under the myth?
Anyway, if sentient alfiq are a thing, then I see two or three "issues"

- it'll be harder to justify why the PC can not be such types of character,
- it'll be harder to justify why so much khajiit (almost all) are from few types
- they have to show the whole variety of furstocks, I want to know how look like the Dagi and Tojay, Pahmar "bulky" ones, and so on, with their -raht counterpart. Sidestepping this while we travel inside Elsweyr would be frustrating ^^

I dont know how many furstocks ZOS has bothered to make beyond the three we have as of this announcement. But its quite possible for them to expand on furstocks at a later point if they cant get to it here. Understandably adding all of the furstocks would be a huge undertaking.

I hope they add them, but Im not going to hold my breath as its quite unfair to expect that level of detail and immersion. There is something like 16 furstocks according to the lore. That is a lot of models to expect ZOS to churn out. Even expecting 8 models per zone would be unlikely in my opinion. My guess is we might get a few more than what we know of right now. But if ZOS wants to add the whole laundry list of breeds. Theyll have to do it separate of the addition of zones.

That would be quite a letdown if they don't. They took a very risky (but interesting) path by having the furstocks happen. We are going to see the heart of Elsweyr now. How would you expect they expand on furstocks on later point?
That sounds like "Welcome in the heart of Elsweyr! - Wait, where are the Tojay? Aren't they meant to live here? - Well, you won't see them... yet... They're... hiding... I guess." - You see, this sounds like hogwash lore

I can not see how it would work anyway.

If the lunar lattice thing is canon, well the khajiit form is determined by the calendar of the year - why not then - but how do you explain there is so few variability among the NPCs and PCs?
Why are there so few Tojay and Dagi around, comparing to other forms?

Do khajiit breed at few moments of the year, making some furstocks statistically very rare?

Why would they hide themselves from the world? Is it some religious belief like the Shadowscale argonians? or a banishment like the Hulkynd high elves?

Sorry but this ever made few sense for me! XD

Building khajiit forms is not that difficult, basically they have the skeleton models already.

As somebody noticed, the Senche-raht is built as a Welwa scaled-up body with a lynx head. This works.
An Alfiq is a Cat. This works.

They can build digitigrade khajiit (Dagi? Tojay? even Suthay) by using the animation model of the Hungers. Fine solutions are there already!

I hope at least, if they haven't the ressources to do so, then they'll provide in-game lore-friendly explanation for us not to see these "rare" furstocks.

Some of it can work by adding some of them at a later date because not all of Elsweyr is being released with this Chapter, and it only briefly dips into the Tenmar forest area. We don't know much about the Dagi or Tojay but the one thing we do know is that they're said to live in the Tenmar forest (for whatever reason, maybe their form is able to excel very well in the type of landscape), so maybe they just won't show up into a full Tenmar zone gets released.

There doesn't necessarily need to be an explanation for why we don't see all of the different forms right away at first, and honestly I'd prefer they didn't because any explanation that they would give wouldn't really float very well, or make it feel worse. In the end it's just down to the same reason we don't see children in the game. It's not that they don't exist, we just don't see them. If we try to make them say why, and it's something like "the other forms are extremely rare" or "khajiit breed in a way to make bipedal forms the most common" then it takes away from the worldbuilding potential because now those furstocks aren't actually something you would see equally in their everyday society, and do go from "we just don't see them" to, "no, they actually aren't there."

I'd rather they decide to take the long route and do a good job with the Khajiit furstocks, even if that means spacing some of them out until deeper zones of Elsweyr is released. It's difficult since this is the most anticipated aspect of Khajiiti culture for me, and of course seeing all of Elsweyr was important to me too so I'm a bit let down by that - but I know I'd be more let down if the furstocks or Elsweyr itself isn't done to the best that it can be.

I am very glad that we are getting to see at least the Alfiq, and Senche-raht (probably Senche and Alfiq-raht as well in the case). Still in the air if we see some of the more easier to develop ones like Ohmes and such, but I'm not holding my breathe on Tojay or Dagi variants until Tenmar fully gets added. That doesn't mean we won't get more lore on them to help us imagine what they'll look like for when we do get to go there and see them later. I'm pretty certain we'll get at least that.

Couldnt have said it better. We need to be patient, still holding ZOS feet to the coals on whats important. But things need to be done right.

3-4 new very well done furstocks is better than none. And much better than 16 poorly implemented furstocks.

This relief from the PTS shows a Khajiit with digitigrade feet (also no tail?)



So digitigrade isn't completely forgotten!

It's pretty much safe to assume that this is Khunzar-ri, who's said to have tricked the dragons into a trap, according to Legend.

Edit:

@Nifthir's Cathay-raht statue

Ah, you misunderstood me, since I've added the statue later. Should have made it in a second post. My remark regarding Khunzar-ri was only related to the reliefs, not the statue.